Re: Climate Impact and KDE
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:04 AM Paul Brown wrote: > On viernes, 20 de septiembre de 2019 11:02:44 (CEST) Jens wrote: > > So recent discussions about Climate Strike raised some very good points > > about what KDE as a community can do to decrease its footprint. I want > > to thank Friedrich for raising them. > > > > Personally I think this is a rather fun focus for design, community > > work and development (and I should probably have thought about it > > faster so it could have been squished into the goals voting/suggesting > > - but such is life) and just want to toss some ideas around if others > > are interested > > > > Community ideas: > > Making a clear statement that carbon footprint in travel will be a > > factor in travel support from the eV. Basically we know that there is > > zero possibility for some to choose, say trains (train from India or > > across the Atlantic is not feasible), but adding that as a part of the > > application process; "choose best transport with ecology and > > environment in mind" can go a long way and for larger events asking > > organizers to look up alternatives and present them as part of the "how > > to get to X" page (much of this is already done of course but > > formalizing it would be awesome). > > > > Decentralized and Online community events. Now I think we all know the > > value of meeting IRL, how important that is and how it can't be > > replaced, but I would love to explore how we can make online or smaller > > co-run events more interesting. Basically trying to time several > > smaller local events with each other and do some broadcast of talks and > > a way for each event to be able to ask questions of the others talks > > (as if they where there). Evaluate and check how we can make social > > events but online sort of. > Randa was so great for that. Sadly we can't get that particular house, but perhaps someplace like the Linuxhotel? And yes, with some streaming of talks so that those who can't attend can still participate. > Improve our internal social communication. This sounds a bit guache but > > I think looking at how we can make the forum/social media angle more > > attractive, perhaps more formal, might help the wider community feel a > > part without having to travel to large events (which beyond ecological > > impact is often impossible for many, for various reasons) > Jonathan Riddell has volunteered to set up Discourse for us, to test as a replacement for the KDE Forums, and perhaps for our mail lists as well. Those who are interested in this should check out https://phabricator.kde.org/T11675. It may take awhile because of the Identity issue, but there is hope! > > Technical Ideas: > > Look at Plasma and applications energy consumption - and I know it is a > > piss in the ocean but its several pisses in the ocean - and how to > > either improve that further or create systems to minimize energy > > consumption or creating something to more clearly and accessibly show > > energy consumption and suggestions to improve it. > My 6-year-old Dell is running the latest, no problem! The only boost to it I did was replace the failed old HD/SSD with a new SSD. > Publish our own energy consumption and carbon footprint in regards to > > servers etc (Ben Cooksley posted a link and perhaps a clear write up on > > the subject would be cool?), and mention/formalize our own commitment > > to it. > Yes please. > A closer relationship with Fairphone and Postmarket OS. So, from what I > > can gather have a pretty good relationship with Postmarket OS (via > > Plasma Mobile), perhaps explore that with regards to Fairphone together > > with them? Explore hardware vendors who try to minize their ecological > > impact and see if we can either do things with them - OR do things > > aimed at their hardware? > > > > (Please note: I am not as technically adept as most here so y'all > > probably have way better ideas than me on this subject) > > > > What do you think? > > > > /Jens > > This sounds like it should be put in a task, worked on a bit and > formalised > later in our documentation (Wiki?). It is brilliant first step and I, for > one, > appreciate and support it. > > Thanks for that, Jens. > > Paul > Yay! The e.V. has been discussing a policy for the e.V. itself, but a community-led effort would support that amazingly well. This is our future we're discussing. I have a grandson, age 11. We are creating the world he'll live in. I think we can help. Valorie -- http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her
Re: Climate Impact and KDE
Jens - 20.09.19, 11:02:44 CEST: > So recent discussions about Climate Strike raised some very good > points about what KDE as a community can do to decrease its > footprint. I want to thank Friedrich for raising them. > > Personally I think this is a rather fun focus for design, community > work and development (and I should probably have thought about it > faster so it could have been squished into the goals voting/suggesting > - but such is life) and just want to toss some ideas around if others > are interested > > Community ideas: > Making a clear statement that carbon footprint in travel will be a > factor in travel support from the eV. Basically we know that there is > zero possibility for some to choose, say trains (train from India or > across the Atlantic is not feasible), but adding that as a part of the > application process; "choose best transport with ecology and > environment in mind" can go a long way and for larger events asking > organizers to look up alternatives and present them as part of the > "how to get to X" page (much of this is already done of course but > formalizing it would be awesome). Given enough fund raising for KDE events for necessary flights KDE could at least do some compensation via Atmosfair. I recently backwardly compensated for some flights I did years ago. As I support KDE with money I'd be totally okay with some money allocated to that. Of course reduction is better than compensation, so compensation should not be an excuse to fly more. > Technical Ideas: > Look at Plasma and applications energy consumption - and I know it is > a piss in the ocean but its several pisses in the ocean - and how to > either improve that further or create systems to minimize energy > consumption or creating something to more clearly and accessibly show > energy consumption and suggestions to improve it. I'd love to see that, I just wonder how much can still be optimized there. > Publish our own energy consumption and carbon footprint in regards to > servers etc (Ben Cooksley posted a link and perhaps a clear write up > on the subject would be cool?), and mention/formalize our own > commitment to it. That would definitely be cool to have. There are some web hosting providers who care about that. > A closer relationship with Fairphone and Postmarket OS. So, from what > I can gather have a pretty good relationship with Postmarket OS (via > Plasma Mobile), perhaps explore that with regards to Fairphone > together with them? Explore hardware vendors who try to minize their > ecological impact and see if we can either do things with them - OR > do things aimed at their hardware? Wasn't there some contacts with Fairphone? Plasma / KDE could also work together with people who refurbish old computers. For many use cases it is not necessary to buy a new machine these days as even computers from 5 years ago are fast enough to do a lot of tasks. I know this as I still use a ThinkPad T520. It fast enough for all desktop related tasks. Especially as in the last years Plasma was optimized heavily for good performance. Thanks, -- Martin
Re: KDE should rather act then just "strike" (Re: Should KDE join the (Digital) Global Climate Strike this friday?)
Christoph Cullmann - 20.09.19, 22:35:26 CEST: > Some people in the thread said they had this strike marked since > months thought it seems nobody thought about communicating it to our > community here a bit earlier that "let's do this this week". I indeed did not think of it as for me the "computer and free software stuff" was not connected to the global climate strike / protests. But it is. I also did not know that others here were concerned about climate as well. In hindsight… that is a bit naive, since many people care, but I did not make the connection and that is what it was. So kudos to Jens for bringing this up here. I am grateful for the support on Mastodon, Twitter and kde.org. Here in Nuremberg as well as in a lot of other cities the number of participating people by far exceeded the expectations. We can learn from it and next time such an announcement could be in other places as well. -- Martin
Re: KDE should rather act then just "strike" (Re: Should KDE join the (Digital) Global Climate Strike this friday?)
Hi, I learn by social media that KDE is now endorsing this very strike. Well, I obviously do not. There are better activities actually worth endorsing. Too bad some people think they can simply go and speak on whole of KDE's behalf? I feel bitter having to distance myself from a "KDE" position, despite thinking to be part of KDE. (also be aware of the irony to add tiny resource usages to websites with those additional banners, and KDE now linking to some place which endorses Twitter & Facebook, incl. Twitter & Google tracking on the website... not my future but another crisis) I must confess I missed that we decided to participate, too, but digging in the mails of this thread it seems the board of e.V. did so. (if I don't misread Aleix mail) This is OK for me, as for that the board got elected, to do some decision when we can't wait for weeks to vote on something. Thought I would have appreciated if at least a 5 lines post of the announcement that "KDE joins this" would have been done on the planet or here to make clear what happens. I am not sure that communicating this over twitter only is the best way to do that, given we have the lists/planet/dot. (not that twitter is bad to advertise it to the world) I think this would have been be possible to discuss more properly if one didn't bring this up a few days before it needs to happens. Some people in the thread said they had this strike marked since months thought it seems nobody thought about communicating it to our community here a bit earlier that "let's do this this week". Greetings Christoph P.S. :-) You might not remember, but I did put up the "we oppose software patents" strike banner more than a decade ago on kde.org and got burned a lot for that, even thought we discussed that internally at that time. -- Ignorance is bliss... https://cullmann.io | https://kate-editor.org
Re: KDE should rather act then just "strike" (Re: Should KDE join the (Digital) Global Climate Strike this friday?)
My last reply here due to getting OT, though still KDE related at end, more in PM if. I need to spend the available time on KDE software itself again :) Am Freitag, 20. September 2019, 02:00:38 CEST schrieb Thomas Pfeiffer: > On 19.09.19 20:58, Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote: > > If you look at history, politicians will also not be really impressed by > > peaceful strikes, other than looking where they need to adapt their image. > > The numbers they look at are poll results > > Yes, and poll results are affected by voters' opinion being influenced > by images of protests. > > Before Fridays for Future started, climate change was ranking pretty low > in people's priorities. Now, for example, 63% of Germans believe that > climate protection should take precedence over economic growth [1]. When > even Germans think that, that says a lot. > > Of course FFF wasn't the only thing that happened between then and now, > we've also had several temperature records, news of melting ice caps and > burning forests so there is no clear causal link, but I still believe > that when people see so many young people out on the streets every week, > it does affect them. I fear that people experiencing things by themselves has the bigger effect here, when they have been struck by weeks of unusual hot days, no more snow in winter and are seeing the rivers & lakes close-by almost dried out, their gardens and forests and fields next to their home dying away, burning forests in the news for weeks as well as its smell in the nose of many. And remarkably less dead insects on the car fronts. Seeing/feeling is believing for most, isn't it? The protests might be adding a bit, but aren't they rather an expression of the actual opinion of people? Do adults really change their mind (and actions) because kids are on the street (worse, avoiding school)? Now, the link you gave also tells that quite some people believe the FfF protests have an influence on politics. You will also find research that even more people believe in the influence of the moon on humans. So research needed on effects, not believe. And today's blocking of streets (here in Ger), I doubt this will win over more people, rather enforce existing opinions. (even mean more resource usage,as people will have to by-pass blockades to reach their destination or sit waiting in running cars, so smart, do protesters really understand the challenge, or just celebrate their street powers?) > > And the numbers business looks at are sales results. If you want to change > > things with them, use those numbers. Or become politician or business and > > try to do the right thing. > > And that's also how real strikes work; business not being able to make > > business, to pressure business leaders' mind to change. > > School kids not going to school does bother people, as evidenced by lots > of people having a strong opinion about it, one way or another. Why is > it not a "real strike" just because those striking are still in school? Because the pupils are not striking on their opponent or the cause in the matter, but actually on themselves and the future. They are stealing education options from themselves, the chance to become better enabled & more informed grown-ups. How do you want to save the world in a competent way if you are lacking in e.g. math, chemistry, biology, physics? How can you understand and try to verify the reports of scientists which research the world and try to analyze the observations done and their potential causes? How can you understand if actions & laws proposed to deal with things are properly done? How can you tell whether the changes you put on your list of demands actually make sense, do scale, are effective and deployable? Why are you harming the needed knowledge to once become an accountable business leader or politician oneself? Striking on education is actually the most counter-productive anti-future thing to be done here, no? Dump people will do dump things. It should be public striking of consumption of resource-hugging entertainment & luxury goods as well as the bad alternatives for real needs, that would be in line instead with what would be the intention of those FfF activists. Be out in the shopping streets on Saturday, but not buying stuff, instead invite other consumers to be informed about their effects and options. Present to people in perceptible ways the mechanisms of what they do and what it does in places usually invisible to them. And what they could do instead already now for the same purposes, so they can compare effective costs (money and conscience). And what you propose politicians should do and why. Would that not have much bigger changes to reach and convince other people not yet sharing the opinion and views? It would impress me I assume, if still needed. Avoiding school work does not. What do you do on the WE that is more important than school during work days? Extrem position?`No,
Re: Climate Impact and KDE
On viernes, 20 de septiembre de 2019 11:02:44 (CEST) Jens wrote: > So recent discussions about Climate Strike raised some very good points > about what KDE as a community can do to decrease its footprint. I want > to thank Friedrich for raising them. > > Personally I think this is a rather fun focus for design, community > work and development (and I should probably have thought about it > faster so it could have been squished into the goals voting/suggesting > - but such is life) and just want to toss some ideas around if others > are interested > > Community ideas: > Making a clear statement that carbon footprint in travel will be a > factor in travel support from the eV. Basically we know that there is > zero possibility for some to choose, say trains (train from India or > across the Atlantic is not feasible), but adding that as a part of the > application process; "choose best transport with ecology and > environment in mind" can go a long way and for larger events asking > organizers to look up alternatives and present them as part of the "how > to get to X" page (much of this is already done of course but > formalizing it would be awesome). > > Decentralized and Online community events. Now I think we all know the > value of meeting IRL, how important that is and how it can't be > replaced, but I would love to explore how we can make online or smaller > co-run events more interesting. Basically trying to time several > smaller local events with each other and do some broadcast of talks and > a way for each event to be able to ask questions of the others talks > (as if they where there). Evaluate and check how we can make social > events but online sort of. > > Improve our internal social communication. This sounds a bit guache but > I think looking at how we can make the forum/social media angle more > attractive, perhaps more formal, might help the wider community feel a > part without having to travel to large events (which beyond ecological > impact is often impossible for many, for various reasons) > > Technical Ideas: > Look at Plasma and applications energy consumption - and I know it is a > piss in the ocean but its several pisses in the ocean - and how to > either improve that further or create systems to minimize energy > consumption or creating something to more clearly and accessibly show > energy consumption and suggestions to improve it. > > Publish our own energy consumption and carbon footprint in regards to > servers etc (Ben Cooksley posted a link and perhaps a clear write up on > the subject would be cool?), and mention/formalize our own commitment > to it. > > A closer relationship with Fairphone and Postmarket OS. So, from what I > can gather have a pretty good relationship with Postmarket OS (via > Plasma Mobile), perhaps explore that with regards to Fairphone together > with them? Explore hardware vendors who try to minize their ecological > impact and see if we can either do things with them - OR do things > aimed at their hardware? > > (Please note: I am not as technically adept as most here so y'all > probably have way better ideas than me on this subject) > > What do you think? > > /Jens This sounds like it should be put in a task, worked on a bit and formalised later in our documentation (Wiki?). It is brilliant first step and I, for one, appreciate and support it. Thanks for that, Jens. Paul -- Promotion & Communication www: http://kde.org Mastodon: https://mastodon.technology/@kde Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kde/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kde
Re: Should KDE join the (Digital) Global Climate Strike this friday? - Proposal
Lew Wolfgang - 19.09.19, 23:20:29 CEST: > On 9/19/19 7:45 AM, Martin Steigerwald wrote: > > What do we choose? Climate Action. When do we choose it? Now. > > Okay, this is a leap too far. Politics should not be introduced here, > and it is "Politics". This was just a little reference to the protests around here and likely elsewhere , and I did not ask to include it in anything official related to the KDE project. As written I am fine with the proposal Thomas shared. However I am off to the protests now. -- Martin
Climate Impact and KDE
So recent discussions about Climate Strike raised some very good points about what KDE as a community can do to decrease its footprint. I want to thank Friedrich for raising them. Personally I think this is a rather fun focus for design, community work and development (and I should probably have thought about it faster so it could have been squished into the goals voting/suggesting - but such is life) and just want to toss some ideas around if others are interested Community ideas: Making a clear statement that carbon footprint in travel will be a factor in travel support from the eV. Basically we know that there is zero possibility for some to choose, say trains (train from India or across the Atlantic is not feasible), but adding that as a part of the application process; "choose best transport with ecology and environment in mind" can go a long way and for larger events asking organizers to look up alternatives and present them as part of the "how to get to X" page (much of this is already done of course but formalizing it would be awesome). Decentralized and Online community events. Now I think we all know the value of meeting IRL, how important that is and how it can't be replaced, but I would love to explore how we can make online or smaller co-run events more interesting. Basically trying to time several smaller local events with each other and do some broadcast of talks and a way for each event to be able to ask questions of the others talks (as if they where there). Evaluate and check how we can make social events but online sort of. Improve our internal social communication. This sounds a bit guache but I think looking at how we can make the forum/social media angle more attractive, perhaps more formal, might help the wider community feel a part without having to travel to large events (which beyond ecological impact is often impossible for many, for various reasons) Technical Ideas: Look at Plasma and applications energy consumption - and I know it is a piss in the ocean but its several pisses in the ocean - and how to either improve that further or create systems to minimize energy consumption or creating something to more clearly and accessibly show energy consumption and suggestions to improve it. Publish our own energy consumption and carbon footprint in regards to servers etc (Ben Cooksley posted a link and perhaps a clear write up on the subject would be cool?), and mention/formalize our own commitment to it. A closer relationship with Fairphone and Postmarket OS. So, from what I can gather have a pretty good relationship with Postmarket OS (via Plasma Mobile), perhaps explore that with regards to Fairphone together with them? Explore hardware vendors who try to minize their ecological impact and see if we can either do things with them - OR do things aimed at their hardware? (Please note: I am not as technically adept as most here so y'all probably have way better ideas than me on this subject) What do you think? /Jens
