Re: Chat blocking under 16s from KDE
On 26 August 2021 10:41:09 BST, Kenny Duffus wrote: >On 26 August 2021 10:18:06 BST, Jonathan Riddell wrote: >>The no-under-16s limitation remains in place on the privacy policy >> > >Yes due to the way matrix is deployed this has proven to be more work to get >done and is taking a bit longer unfortunately, the consent form has been fixed >already > >For anyone under 16 waiting on this, I can confirm that our matrix instance >has no age restrictions on it currently. We are just waiting on the privacy >document being updated to reflect that > >I will update here when this is completed > >Thanks > > This has now been resolved -- Kenny (Pronouns: he/him)
Re: Chat blocking under 16s from KDE
On 26 August 2021 10:18:06 BST, Jonathan Riddell wrote: >The no-under-16s limitation remains in place on the privacy policy > Yes due to the way matrix is deployed this has proven to be more work to get done and is taking a bit longer unfortunately, the consent form has been fixed already For anyone under 16 waiting on this, I can confirm that our matrix instance has no age restrictions on it currently. We are just waiting on the privacy document being updated to reflect that I will update here when this is completed Thanks -- Kenny (Pronouns: he/him)
Re: Chat blocking under 16s from KDE
The no-under-16s limitation remains in place on the privacy policy https://webchat.kde.org/privacy_policy/en/privacy_notice.html "We never knowingly collect or maintain information in the Service from those we know are under 16, and no part of the Service is structured to attract anyone under 16. If you are under 16, please do not use the Service." I'd also query if should allow hugging by text, it does seem excessive to prevent it. "Physical contact and simulated physical contact (eg, textual descriptions like "*hug*" or "*backrub*") without consent or after a request to stop" https://webchat.kde.org/privacy_policy/en/code_of_conduct.html Jonathan On Fri, 6 Aug 2021 at 17:27, Adriaan de Groot wrote: > On Friday, 6 August 2021 17:05:46 CEST Kenny Duffus wrote: > > On Monday, 2 August 2021 10:58:20 BST Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > > I've been notified by a 13 year old who wants to help KDE that he is > > > unable > > > to log into our chat setup on Matrix because the privacy policy blocks > > > anyone under 16. > > > > This message is planned to be removed from our home-server next week by > EMS > > (Where EMS = Element Matrix Support, the organization hosting and > supporting > KDE's Matrix instances; not Emergency Medical Services, or Extra Mature > Spinach, or any of a dozen other things those letters might mean) > > Thank you, Kenny and Jon, for chasing that through (also for all our > future > young contributors). > > [ade] >
Re: Chat blocking under 16s from KDE
On Friday, 6 August 2021 17:05:46 CEST Kenny Duffus wrote: > On Monday, 2 August 2021 10:58:20 BST Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > I've been notified by a 13 year old who wants to help KDE that he is > > unable > > to log into our chat setup on Matrix because the privacy policy blocks > > anyone under 16. > > This message is planned to be removed from our home-server next week by EMS (Where EMS = Element Matrix Support, the organization hosting and supporting KDE's Matrix instances; not Emergency Medical Services, or Extra Mature Spinach, or any of a dozen other things those letters might mean) Thank you, Kenny and Jon, for chasing that through (also for all our future young contributors). [ade] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Chat blocking under 16s from KDE
On Monday, 2 August 2021 10:58:20 BST Jonathan Riddell wrote: > I've been notified by a 13 year old who wants to help KDE that he is unable > to log into our chat setup on Matrix because the privacy policy blocks > anyone under 16. > This message is planned to be removed from our home-server next week by EMS -- Kenny (Pronouns: he/him)
Re: Chat blocking under 16s from KDE
El dilluns, 2 d’agost de 2021, a les 11:58:20 (CEST), Jonathan Riddell va escriure: > I've been notified by a 13 year old who wants to help KDE that he is unable > to log into our chat setup on Matrix because the privacy policy blocks > anyone under 16. > > https://kde.modular.im/_matrix/consent?v=1.0 > "You must be at least 16 years old to use this Service (webchat.kde.org) " > > https://webchat.kde.org/privacy_policy/en/privacy_notice.html > "We never knowingly collect or maintain information in the Service from > those we know are under 16, and no part of the Service is structured to > attract anyone under 16. If you are under 16, please do not use the > Service." > > This is contrary to > https://webchat.kde.org/privacy_policy/en/code_of_conduct.html > "Although this list cannot be exhaustive, we explicitly honour diversity in > age" > > If KDE is restricting who can take part in our activities, against our > historical practice, without prior discussion and solely because we are > reliant on a third party service we should move to a different service. Don't interpet this as "stop discussing this", but this was already discussed when we started using Matrix https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-community/2019q1/005186.html Cheers, Albert > > Jonathan >
Re: Chat blocking under 16s from KDE
On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 at 11:09, Christian wrote: > > If KDE is restricting who can take part in our activities, against our > > historical practice, without prior discussion and solely because we are > > reliant on a third party service we should move to a different service. > > As far as the "move to a different service" goes: please not again. Also > this > age restriction is due to local laws (e.g. COPPA) and will most likely > affect > every commercial third party service we use, so unless we want to start > self- > host or use something existing that isn't affected (which is a bit > limited) > I doubt there are many options left. Mostly because these services, for > user > convenience, do have to store data, including chat log, which makes them > subject to these laws. > > COPPA seems to be for children under 13 so I doubt that's relevant here https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=4939e77c77a1a1a08c1cbf905fc4b409&node=16%3A1.0.1.3.36&rgn=div5 The GDPR tends to require children under 16 to get parental consent before signing up to things, but that is the same for all our services there's no reason why this should be different. Saying some people need to stay off a KDE service seems like an arbitrary limitation that will restrict who can be welcomed into our community. Jonathan
Re: Chat blocking under 16s from KDE
Am Montag, 2. August 2021, 11:58:20 CEST schrieb Jonathan Riddell: > If KDE is restricting who can take part in our activities, against our > historical practice, without prior discussion and solely because we are > reliant on a third party service we should move to a different service. They can connect via IRC, if they prefer a webchat https://web.libera.chat/ and https://web.libera.chat/gamja/ are available. We (Libera) do not collect data unless they register an account, in which case we only collect the information simply needed to have that account. https://libera.chat/privacy Depending on how the room they want to participate in is bridged, Telegram may also work. Usually all rooms should be bridged at least IRC and Matrix, so people who can't join via Matrix should be able to join via IRC. However, recently some (semi-)official rooms were created without bridging, if that is the case here, this should be fixable though. As far as the "move to a different service" goes: please not again. Also this age restriction is due to local laws (e.g. COPPA) and will most likely affect every commercial third party service we use, so unless we want to start self- host or use something existing that isn't affected (which is a bit limited) I doubt there are many options left. Mostly because these services, for user convenience, do have to store data, including chat log, which makes them subject to these laws. Right now we do have an option, it is IRC, and it is usable by people who do not want their information collected / who do not want to register an account / who can't or don't want to use Matrix for other reasons. > Jonathan Christian
Chat blocking under 16s from KDE
I've been notified by a 13 year old who wants to help KDE that he is unable to log into our chat setup on Matrix because the privacy policy blocks anyone under 16. https://kde.modular.im/_matrix/consent?v=1.0 "You must be at least 16 years old to use this Service (webchat.kde.org) " https://webchat.kde.org/privacy_policy/en/privacy_notice.html "We never knowingly collect or maintain information in the Service from those we know are under 16, and no part of the Service is structured to attract anyone under 16. If you are under 16, please do not use the Service." This is contrary to https://webchat.kde.org/privacy_policy/en/code_of_conduct.html "Although this list cannot be exhaustive, we explicitly honour diversity in age" If KDE is restricting who can take part in our activities, against our historical practice, without prior discussion and solely because we are reliant on a third party service we should move to a different service. Jonathan
