Re: New homepage for kde.org
>From that website, one thing I'd like to make clear (and I don't know how) is the different target audience/state of completion for plasma vs plasma mobile. Plasma is a ready-to-use user facing product that unskilled people can "just use" Plasma mobile is still aimed at the developers stage. I fear if we present them at the same level in public things we give a confusing message that will cause us problems. --- As for "TODO TEXT PLASMA" - is that a request for help, or just a placeholder for yourself? David
Re: New homepage for kde.org
Hi, Le 2019-12-22 à 18:33, Nate Graham a écrit : Thanks again for this very nice update, Carl. Since nobody has raised serious objections, and it is a very welcome improvement, I propose that we move forward with it. We can tweak things as needed. At this point only preliminary feedback was requested, and I believe only Carl has the privileges to integrate feedback. I suppose once preliminary changes are completed he can share the source and make a more definitive consultation. Nate On Sun, 22 Dec 2019 15:22:08 -0700 Carl Schwan wrote > Hi, > sorry for the late answer, I was busy with other things. > > I saw multiple problems with the current page: > > + A carousel is a very poor way to represent information. There were multi studies proving that almost nobody bothers to read the slides > + The explanation about KDE are terrible: I tried sending it to some friend who are not in the Linux/Open Source scene and nobody could find what > KDE is only from the homepage. The SEO of the homepage is also quite poor. > + The homepage is representing 27% of the visits of kde.org and improving it could help a lot > + I also want to help improve the image of KDE == community > > Carl > > (sending it again since I replied to Scott only the first time) > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > On Sunday, December 8, 2019 4:27 PM, Scott Petrovic wrote: > > > This looks pretty good overall Carl. Was there specific problems that this redesign is trying to solve? I guess I am trying to get in your mind a bit. I am not sure what type of data or feedback we currently get about the KDE site...and how this is going to be easier/better for people. That helps with decision making a lot -- especially when there are disagreements with what to do or not to do. > > > > > In terms of piwik and web analytics, I could go either way. Do we care if people are trying to access this on their phone? Are there many people trying to view this on a 4K monitor? For this KDE site it might not matter, but for applications it can be really important. For example if most people that are going to your site have a 1366 x 768 monitor, you better make sure your application works well at that screen size. -- Philippe Cloutier http://www.philippecloutier.com
Re: New homepage for kde.org
Thanks again for this very nice update, Carl. Since nobody has raised serious objections, and it is a very welcome improvement, I propose that we move forward with it. We can tweak things as needed. Nate On Sun, 22 Dec 2019 15:22:08 -0700 Carl Schwan wrote > Hi, > sorry for the late answer, I was busy with other things. > > I saw multiple problems with the current page: > > + A carousel is a very poor way to represent information. There were multi > studies proving that almost nobody bothers to read the slides > + The explanation about KDE are terrible: I tried sending it to some friend > who are not in the Linux/Open Source scene and nobody could find what > KDE is only from the homepage. The SEO of the homepage is also quite poor. > + The homepage is representing 27% of the visits of kde.org and improving it > could help a lot > + I also want to help improve the image of KDE == community > > Carl > > (sending it again since I replied to Scott only the first time) > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > On Sunday, December 8, 2019 4:27 PM, Scott Petrovic > wrote: > > > This looks pretty good overall Carl. Was there specific problems that this > > redesign is trying to solve? I guess I am trying to get in your mind a > > bit. I am not sure what type of data or feedback we currently get about > > the KDE site...and how this is going to be easier/better for people. That > > helps with decision making a lot -- especially when there are > > disagreements with what to do or not to do. > > > > > In terms of piwik and web analytics, I could go either way. Do we care if > > people are trying to access this on their phone? Are there many people > > trying to view this on a 4K monitor? For this KDE site it might not > > matter, but for applications it can be really important. For example if > > most people that are going to your site have a 1366 x 768 monitor, you > > better make sure your application works well at that screen size.
Re: New homepage for kde.org
Hi, sorry for the late answer, I was busy with other things. I saw multiple problems with the current page: + A carousel is a very poor way to represent information. There were multi studies proving that almost nobody bothers to read the slides + The explanation about KDE are terrible: I tried sending it to some friend who are not in the Linux/Open Source scene and nobody could find what KDE is only from the homepage. The SEO of the homepage is also quite poor. + The homepage is representing 27% of the visits of kde.org and improving it could help a lot + I also want to help improve the image of KDE == community Carl (sending it again since I replied to Scott only the first time) ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Sunday, December 8, 2019 4:27 PM, Scott Petrovic wrote: > This looks pretty good overall Carl. Was there specific problems that this > redesign is trying to solve? I guess I am trying to get in your mind a bit. I > am not sure what type of data or feedback we currently get about the KDE > site...and how this is going to be easier/better for people. That helps with > decision making a lot -- especially when there are disagreements with what to > do or not to do. > > In terms of piwik and web analytics, I could go either way. Do we care if > people are trying to access this on their phone? Are there many people trying > to view this on a 4K monitor? For this KDE site it might not matter, but for > applications it can be really important. For example if most people that are > going to your site have a 1366 x 768 monitor, you better make sure your > application works well at that screen size. publickey - carl@carlschwan.eu - 0x7F564CB5.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: New homepage for kde.org
On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 7:04 PM Christoph Cullmann wrote: > > On 2019-12-08 21:12, Ingo Klöcker wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> is this still a legal issue if one anonymizes the IPs during > >> processing? > > > > I don't think it matters whether it would be legal. What matters is > > that > > people whose browsers are set to send "Do Not Track" (or who have opted > > out of > > tracking some other way) shouldn't be tracked in any way. > > No visitor of the page is tracked in any way with such stats. > > You get just plain "X access to this page" with maximal country/town > granularity. > > There is no kind of visitor tracking as it would happen if you accept > the piwik cookie. You'd be surprised at what can be gleaned from server logs - while a cookie or other unique identifier provides quite a bit more detail and certainty as to who someone is, even without that it is certainly possible to combine several details (such as IP address, browser user agent and referrer) to perform tracking of a user while they're within your site. In any event, we already have Matomo/Piwik in place and it works very well, providing excellent visualisation of the information it does collect, while complying with our various requirements. It does mean a cookie banner, but there isn't really another way to do it (as any other approach doesn't allow people to opt out) Log processing would require amending our privacy policy (per the GDPR we cannot process information for purposes other than which we've collected it, and our logs are not collected for the purposes of website statistics), and be additional stuff for us to maintain - not to mention being more expensive to maintain when compared with Matomo as it has to be setup on a server by server basis (which Matomo does not) > > Greetings > Christoph > > > > > Regards, > > Ingo > > -- > Ignorance is bliss... > https://cullmann.io | https://kate-editor.org Cheers, Ben
Re: New homepage for kde.org
On 2019-12-08 21:12, Ingo Klöcker wrote: Hi, is this still a legal issue if one anonymizes the IPs during processing? I don't think it matters whether it would be legal. What matters is that people whose browsers are set to send "Do Not Track" (or who have opted out of tracking some other way) shouldn't be tracked in any way. No visitor of the page is tracked in any way with such stats. You get just plain "X access to this page" with maximal country/town granularity. There is no kind of visitor tracking as it would happen if you accept the piwik cookie. Greetings Christoph Regards, Ingo -- Ignorance is bliss... https://cullmann.io | https://kate-editor.org
Re: New homepage for kde.org
On Sonntag, 8. Dezember 2019 19:59:58 CET Christoph Cullmann wrote: > On 2019-12-08 18:12, Ben Cooksley wrote: > > If you want any form of statistics, then it has to be Piwik (now > > called Matomo btw) > > > > Processing of our logs for web statistics purposes is not permitted by > > our privacy policies (see https://kde.org/privacypolicy.php). > > > > It is also much more problematic to process logs as people have no way > > of opting out from that processing because every request is logged - > > whereas Piwik/Matomo gives them the ability to opt out. > > Hi, > > is this still a legal issue if one anonymizes the IPs during processing? I don't think it matters whether it would be legal. What matters is that people whose browsers are set to send "Do Not Track" (or who have opted out of tracking some other way) shouldn't be tracked in any way. Regards, Ingo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: New homepage for kde.org
On 2019-12-08 18:12, Ben Cooksley wrote: If you want any form of statistics, then it has to be Piwik (now called Matomo btw) Processing of our logs for web statistics purposes is not permitted by our privacy policies (see https://kde.org/privacypolicy.php). It is also much more problematic to process logs as people have no way of opting out from that processing because every request is logged - whereas Piwik/Matomo gives them the ability to opt out. Hi, is this still a legal issue if one anonymizes the IPs during processing? e.g. https://goaccess.io/ will only store the anonymized stuff in the database for longer term storage and there is zero way to track this back to individual visitors. Greetings Christoph -- Ignorance is bliss... https://cullmann.io | https://kate-editor.org
Re: New homepage for kde.org
On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 3:58 AM Christoph Cullmann wrote: > > On 2019-12-07 23:52, Nate Graham wrote: > > This looks excellent. > > > > I have just a few suggestions: > > > > The Applications section could be simplified by omitting the 2x3 grid > > of apps on the top, since those same apps are then presented with nice > > screenshots and text immediately below. > > > > The Community section feels like it has too many pictures in it. Maybe > > pare that down to just 3, like an Akademy group photo, the GSoC photo, > > and the LaKademy 2018 photo. > > Hi, > > I think, too, the new page looks very nice! > > I am with Nate, that for the pictures, on the start page, less is more. > Having some there is really a great idea, to show that we are an active > community > of people. But a few would be enough and we can have some sub-page with > pictures from our past events. > > Technical side note: given one of our aims is privacy, do we really need > the piwik stuff > or would normal web logs with statistics enough for our purpose? If you want any form of statistics, then it has to be Piwik (now called Matomo btw) Processing of our logs for web statistics purposes is not permitted by our privacy policies (see https://kde.org/privacypolicy.php). It is also much more problematic to process logs as people have no way of opting out from that processing because every request is logged - whereas Piwik/Matomo gives them the ability to opt out. > > We could aim to be a cookie free (and external resources free) site that > doesn't track > people at all. > > I am not that convinced we need the statistics that much. > > Greetings > Christoph Regards, Ben > > > > > Nate > > > > > > On 12/7/19 2:56 PM, Carl Schwan wrote: > >> Hello everyone, > >> > >> I started working on a new homepage for kde.org, the WIP result > >> can be viewed at https://kde.carlschwan.eu/index-new. The text is > >> still, boilerplate, but I wanted to know if the current direction > >> of this webpage is a good showcase of our softwares and our > >> community. > >> > >> Any early feedback? ;) > >> Cheers, > >> Carl > >> > >> PS: if you have good photo recommendations, for the community > >> section please share, for the final version this section will only > >> be loaded when the visitor scroll to it so there won't be any > >> performance impact if I had more photos ;) > >> > > -- > Ignorance is bliss... > https://cullmann.io | https://kate-editor.org
Re: New homepage for kde.org
> The Community section feels like it has too many pictures in it. Maybe > pare that down to just 3, like an Akademy group photo, the GSoC photo, > and the LaKademy 2018 photo. This was my first reaction as well, but after a few seconds passed, I decided I actually like it this way - if we have rebranded KDE to be a 'community', we need to show the community spirit and the photos are quite warming. Obviously, most people that come to kde.org want primarily the information about our software, but these photos shows we are much more than that. Cheers, Ivan -- dr Ivan Čukić KDE, ivan.cu...@kde.org, https://cukic.co/ gpg key fingerprint: 8FE4 D32F 7061 EA9C 8232 07AE 01C6 CE2B FF04 1C12
Re: New homepage for kde.org
This looks pretty good overall Carl. Was there specific problems that this redesign is trying to solve? I guess I am trying to get in your mind a bit. I am not sure what type of data or feedback we currently get about the KDE site...and how this is going to be easier/better for people. That helps with decision making a lot -- especially when there are disagreements with what to do or not to do. In terms of piwik and web analytics, I could go either way. Do we care if people are trying to access this on their phone? Are there many people trying to view this on a 4K monitor? For this KDE site it might not matter, but for applications it can be really important. For example if most people that are going to your site have a 1366 x 768 monitor, you better make sure your application works well at that screen size.
Re: New homepage for kde.org
On 2019-12-07 23:52, Nate Graham wrote: This looks excellent. I have just a few suggestions: The Applications section could be simplified by omitting the 2x3 grid of apps on the top, since those same apps are then presented with nice screenshots and text immediately below. The Community section feels like it has too many pictures in it. Maybe pare that down to just 3, like an Akademy group photo, the GSoC photo, and the LaKademy 2018 photo. Hi, I think, too, the new page looks very nice! I am with Nate, that for the pictures, on the start page, less is more. Having some there is really a great idea, to show that we are an active community of people. But a few would be enough and we can have some sub-page with pictures from our past events. Technical side note: given one of our aims is privacy, do we really need the piwik stuff or would normal web logs with statistics enough for our purpose? We could aim to be a cookie free (and external resources free) site that doesn't track people at all. I am not that convinced we need the statistics that much. Greetings Christoph Nate On 12/7/19 2:56 PM, Carl Schwan wrote: Hello everyone, I started working on a new homepage for kde.org, the WIP result can be viewed at https://kde.carlschwan.eu/index-new. The text is still, boilerplate, but I wanted to know if the current direction of this webpage is a good showcase of our softwares and our community. Any early feedback? ;) Cheers, Carl PS: if you have good photo recommendations, for the community section please share, for the final version this section will only be loaded when the visitor scroll to it so there won't be any performance impact if I had more photos ;) -- Ignorance is bliss... https://cullmann.io | https://kate-editor.org
Re: New homepage for kde.org
We can consult this site: http://shouldiuseacarousel.com/ Ilmari Niccolò Venerandi kirjoitti 8.12.2019 klo 11.58: Could that be an appropriate use case for a carousel? It takes less vertical space, and the user probably won't be annoyed by the automatic change of picture as he don't probably prefer one in particular, or stay much time looking at one. On December 8, 2019 7:54:52 AM GMT+01:00, Kenny Duffus wrote: On Saturday, 7 December 2019 22:52:55 GMT, Nate Graham wrote: The Community section feels like it has too many pictures in it. Maybe pare that down to just 3, like an Akademy group photo, the GSoC photo, and the LaKademy 2018 photo. I like that there are quite a few photos trying to show the variety, its down at the bottom of the page so shouldn't be an issue for people not scrolling past? -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: New homepage for kde.org
Hi Carl! On Sat, 07 Dec 2019 21:56:44 + Carl Schwan wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I started working on a new homepage for kde.org, the WIP result > can be viewed at https://kde.carlschwan.eu/index-new. The text is > still, boilerplate, but I wanted to know if the current direction > of this webpage is a good showcase of our softwares and our > community. > See https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/softwares . Regards, Shlomi > Any early feedback? ;) > Cheers, > Carl > > PS: if you have good photo recommendations, for the community > section please share, for the final version this section will only > be loaded when the visitor scroll to it so there won't be any > performance impact if I had more photos ;) -- Shlomi Fish https://www.shlomifish.org/ https://is.gd/MQHVF3 - The Atom Text Editor edits a 2,000,001B file We agree. But do we agree to agree? — http://www.shlomifish.org/humour.html Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
Re: New homepage for kde.org
Could that be an appropriate use case for a carousel? It takes less vertical space, and the user probably won't be annoyed by the automatic change of picture as he don't probably prefer one in particular, or stay much time looking at one. On December 8, 2019 7:54:52 AM GMT+01:00, Kenny Duffus wrote: >On Saturday, 7 December 2019 22:52:55 GMT, Nate Graham wrote: >> The Community section feels like it has too many pictures in >> it. Maybe pare that down to just 3, like an Akademy group photo, >> the GSoC photo, and the LaKademy 2018 photo. >> > >I like that there are quite a few photos trying to show the variety, >its >down at the bottom of the page so shouldn't be an issue for people not >scrolling past? > >-- > > Kenny -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: New homepage for kde.org
On Saturday, 7 December 2019 22:52:55 GMT, Nate Graham wrote: The Community section feels like it has too many pictures in it. Maybe pare that down to just 3, like an Akademy group photo, the GSoC photo, and the LaKademy 2018 photo. I like that there are quite a few photos trying to show the variety, its down at the bottom of the page so shouldn't be an issue for people not scrolling past? -- Kenny
Re: New homepage for kde.org
This looks excellent. I have just a few suggestions: The Applications section could be simplified by omitting the 2x3 grid of apps on the top, since those same apps are then presented with nice screenshots and text immediately below. The Community section feels like it has too many pictures in it. Maybe pare that down to just 3, like an Akademy group photo, the GSoC photo, and the LaKademy 2018 photo. Nate On 12/7/19 2:56 PM, Carl Schwan wrote: Hello everyone, I started working on a new homepage for kde.org, the WIP result can be viewed at https://kde.carlschwan.eu/index-new. The text is still, boilerplate, but I wanted to know if the current direction of this webpage is a good showcase of our softwares and our community. Any early feedback? ;) Cheers, Carl PS: if you have good photo recommendations, for the community section please share, for the final version this section will only be loaded when the visitor scroll to it so there won't be any performance impact if I had more photos ;)
New homepage for kde.org
Hello everyone, I started working on a new homepage for kde.org, the WIP result can be viewed at https://kde.carlschwan.eu/index-new. The text is still, boilerplate, but I wanted to know if the current direction of this webpage is a good showcase of our softwares and our community. Any early feedback? ;) Cheers, Carl PS: if you have good photo recommendations, for the community section please share, for the final version this section will only be loaded when the visitor scroll to it so there won't be any performance impact if I had more photos ;) publickey - carl@carlschwan.eu - 0x7F564CB5.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
