Re: Gitlab Turn-off Issues
On dinsdag 30 juni 2020 14:06:47 CEST Ben Cooksley wrote: > As an interim measure, I have implemented a banner shown only on New > Issue pages. That's very clear. ⤳Jos signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Gitlab Turn-off Issues
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 12:59:37PM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: > The thing is, GitLab is also not particularly open to external > contributions, in particular, they are not going to add features to the > Community Edition that they deliberately omitted, and if you submit a new > feature, they can also decide to restrict it to enterprise customers. May I please suggest to make public statements which have the facts backing to it? Because that statement is not correct and have zero backing to it. -- Bhushan Shah http://blog.bshah.in IRC Nick : bshah on Freenode GPG key fingerprint : 0AAC 775B B643 7A8D 9AF7 A3AC FE07 8411 7FBC E11D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Gitlab Turn-off Issues
Ben Cooksley wrote: > I should note that you can hardly call Gitlab crippled with the > feature set it offers in the Community Edition, that is a gross insult > towards what it provides capability wise. The fact is that the Community Edition deliberately omits some features that are available in the proprietary enterprise editions, which is exactly the definition of crippleware. > 3) Has a small upstream that isn't particularly open to external > contributions [snip] > I think that is a pretty good list of reasons as to why we started > moving away from Phabricator, especially (3). The thing is, GitLab is also not particularly open to external contributions, in particular, they are not going to add features to the Community Edition that they deliberately omitted, and if you submit a new feature, they can also decide to restrict it to enterprise customers. So seeing this stated as the main reason for having switched to GitLab strikes me as very odd. Kevin Kofler
Re: Gitlab Turn-off Issues
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 12:27:41 PM EDT Allen Winter wrote: > Can we remove the Issues feature on all invent projects? > We're starting to see more and more people adding Issues. > > For KOrganizer, bshah replaced Issues with Bugzilla. > > I very much doubt we want or are ready to replace Bugzilla. > Apologies, I had no idea this has been discussed many times previously. I didn't intend to have a mean or angry tone. What I really want to know is if we have some ideas or plans to deal with people submitting issues to Issues instead of Bugzilla. I'll follow this thread and see where it leads. -Allen
Re: Gitlab Turn-off Issues
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:53 PM Allen Winter wrote: > > On Sunday, June 28, 2020 12:27:41 PM EDT Allen Winter wrote: > > Can we remove the Issues feature on all invent projects? > > We're starting to see more and more people adding Issues. > > > > For KOrganizer, bshah replaced Issues with Bugzilla. > > > > I very much doubt we want or are ready to replace Bugzilla. > > > Apologies, I had no idea this has been discussed many times previously. > I didn't intend to have a mean or angry tone. > > What I really want to know is if we have some ideas or plans > to deal with people submitting issues to Issues instead of Bugzilla. > I'll follow this thread and see where it leads. As an interim measure, I have implemented a banner shown only on New Issue pages. This can be seen at https://invent.kde.org/games/kbounce/-/issues/new for instance. Hopefully this is sufficient to eliminate the issue, particularly once we've rolled out the Bugzilla/Gitlab linkage more widely. > > -Allen Cheers, Ben > > > > >
Re: Gitlab Turn-off Issues
On Sun, Jun 28, 2020, 20:29 Ben Cooksley wrote: On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:28 AM Allen Winter wrote: > > Can we remove the Issues feature on all invent projects? > We're starting to see more and more people adding Issues. > > For KOrganizer, bshah replaced Issues with Bugzilla. > > I very much doubt we want or are ready to replace Bugzilla. As has been discussed *far too many times* already, we have NO INTENTION to replace Bugzilla at this stage. This matter has been discussed on many threads, including on this list in the past. Issues on Gitlab is intended to be the replacement for Phabricator Tasks. Disabling them would leave projects with no developer task management functionality, which would be highly undesirable as they are heavily used by a number of projects. What prevents a user from seeing a link labeled "issues" and thinking "this is where I report my issues with this product"? Currently, nothing, so I've decided to accept that bugs now come from two places: Bugzilla and Gitlab issues. > > Your request to disable them for all KDE projects is therefore declined. > > Regards, > Ben Cooksley > KDE Sysadmin >
Re: Gitlab Turn-off Issues
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 9:42 PM Kevin Kofler wrote: > > Nicolás Alvarez wrote: > > Apparently that's not available in GitLab's free edition: > > https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/description_templates.html#setting-a-default-template-for-merge-requests-and-issues--starter > > :-( > > The cripplewareness of GitLab is a real problem, especially because everyone > depends on this new monopoly now. (I see more and more big Free Software > projects moving to it.) > > I think we really need either an uncrippled fork of GitLab or the > high-profile users switching to really Free, not crippled, forges. We're not switching again. I should note that you can hardly call Gitlab crippled with the feature set it offers in the Community Edition, that is a gross insult towards what it provides capability wise. > > (What was wrong with Phabricator?) Well lets see shall we? 1) Used Arcanist, which for many parts of the KDE Community was either a non-option, loathed or despised. Not many people liked it. 2) If Arcanist was not used for submitting patches, then crucial information was missing such as file context and author metadata 3) Has a small upstream that isn't particularly open to external contributions 4) Did not offer commit level review, which is a feature some wanted 5) Had limited options for the integration of pre-merge CI 6) Had a poor discoverability story in terms of linking the elements of a project (repository, reviews, tasks, etc) together I think that is a pretty good list of reasons as to why we started moving away from Phabricator, especially (3). All of the above, along with other items, were discussed on a number of KDE mailing lists, including this one, around the time we proposed and discussed switching away from Phabricator to Gitlab. Alternative options were not raised at any point in that process. I should also note that users were still equally able to access Phabricator and open tasks there if they wanted, so there is no real difference between Phabricator and Gitlab, except the *discoverability* of Gitlab is much better (which ironically is one of the issues we wanted to solve) Just for the record, Phabricator did not support default description templates unless you used a customised editor. These could only be configured by Sysadmin and could only be setup on a global basis, so you did not have the option of setting these on a per-project basis, nor could additional templates be offered - if you wanted more then we had to setup additional customised editors, and the process for accessing customised editors was clumsy, as you couldn't change the list of editors based on the project you were viewing. Therefore for all intents and purposes, Phabricator did not have the functionality you are talking about. > > Kevin Kofler > Regards, Ben
Re: Gitlab Turn-off Issues
Nicolás Alvarez wrote: > Apparently that's not available in GitLab's free edition: > https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/description_templates.html#setting-a-default-template-for-merge-requests-and-issues--starter :-( The cripplewareness of GitLab is a real problem, especially because everyone depends on this new monopoly now. (I see more and more big Free Software projects moving to it.) I think we really need either an uncrippled fork of GitLab or the high-profile users switching to really Free, not crippled, forges. (What was wrong with Phabricator?) Kevin Kofler
Re: Gitlab Turn-off Issues
El dom., 28 de jun. de 2020 a la(s) 19:02, Albert Astals Cid (aa...@kde.org) escribió: > > El diumenge, 28 de juny de 2020, a les 22:29:06 CEST, Nicolás Alvarez va > escriure: > > El dom., 28 de jun. de 2020 a la(s) 16:47, Nate Graham (n...@kde.org) > > escribió: > > > > > > On 6/28/20 12:28 PM, Ben Cooksley wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:28 AM Allen Winter wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Can we remove the Issues feature on all invent projects? > > > >> We're starting to see more and more people adding Issues. > > > >> > > > >> For KOrganizer, bshah replaced Issues with Bugzilla. > > > >> > > > >> I very much doubt we want or are ready to replace Bugzilla. > > > > > > > > As has been discussed *far too many times* already, we have NO > > > > INTENTION to replace Bugzilla at this stage. > > > > This matter has been discussed on many threads, including on this list > > > > in the past. > > > > > > > > Issues on Gitlab is intended to be the replacement for Phabricator > > > > Tasks. > > > > Disabling them would leave projects with no developer task management > > > > functionality, which would be highly undesirable as they are heavily > > > > used by a number of projects. > > > > > > > > Your request to disable them for all KDE projects is therefore declined. > > > > > > The problem with this approach is that users familiar with GitHub or > > > GitLab in other projects will not stop submitting bug reports using > > > GitLab issues as long as it's turned on in its current form > > > > Hmm... Users familiar with GitHub in other projects will not stop > > submitting pull requests on the KDE GitHub mirror as long as that's > > turned on, and GitHub doesn't even let us turn off pull requests. > > Should we get rid of the GitHub mirror? Or should we keep closing pull > > requests and telling people to send their patches to Invent instead? > > (This is only half-rhetoric, I actually wouldn't mind getting rid of > > the GitHub mirror :P) > > > > > However the issue (har har) of users submitting bug reports and feature > > > requests using GitLab issues is not likely to disappear without some > > > kind of change. > > > > We can't easily change the label of the sidebar button. But what about > > a banner like this: > > https://invent.kde.org/games/kbounce/-/issues/new > > > > Do you think this would help? > > When creating an issue in gitlab.com you get a long wall of text saying what > you have to do https://i.imgur.com/ly2mU3M.png > > Could we have something like that by default saying "this is for developer > tasks for bugs/issues use bugs.kde.org" ? Apparently that's not available in GitLab's free edition: https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/description_templates.html#setting-a-default-template-for-merge-requests-and-issues--starter -- Nicolás
Re: Gitlab Turn-off Issues
On 6/28/20 2:29 PM, Nicolás Alvarez wrote: > El dom., 28 de jun. de 2020 a la(s) 16:47, Nate Graham (n...@kde.org) > escribió: >> >> On 6/28/20 12:28 PM, Ben Cooksley wrote: >>> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:28 AM Allen Winter wrote: Can we remove the Issues feature on all invent projects? We're starting to see more and more people adding Issues. For KOrganizer, bshah replaced Issues with Bugzilla. I very much doubt we want or are ready to replace Bugzilla. >>> >>> As has been discussed *far too many times* already, we have NO >>> INTENTION to replace Bugzilla at this stage. >>> This matter has been discussed on many threads, including on this list >>> in the past. >>> >>> Issues on Gitlab is intended to be the replacement for Phabricator Tasks. >>> Disabling them would leave projects with no developer task management >>> functionality, which would be highly undesirable as they are heavily >>> used by a number of projects. >>> >>> Your request to disable them for all KDE projects is therefore declined. >> >> The problem with this approach is that users familiar with GitHub or >> GitLab in other projects will not stop submitting bug reports using >> GitLab issues as long as it's turned on in its current form > > Hmm... Users familiar with GitHub in other projects will not stop > submitting pull requests on the KDE GitHub mirror as long as that's > turned on, and GitHub doesn't even let us turn off pull requests. > Should we get rid of the GitHub mirror? Or should we keep closing pull > requests and telling people to send their patches to Invent instead? > (This is only half-rhetoric, I actually wouldn't mind getting rid of > the GitHub mirror :P) Personally I wouldn't object, if we really can't turn off the pull request feature. I don't see what the GitHub mirror is accomplishing, other than confusing potential new contributors and wasting the time of actual contributors who have to perform maintenance and close pull requests. >> However the issue (har har) of users submitting bug reports and feature >> requests using GitLab issues is not likely to disappear without some >> kind of change. > > We can't easily change the label of the sidebar button. But what about > a banner like this: > https://invent.kde.org/games/kbounce/-/issues/new > > Do you think this would help? Yes, I think it definitely would! Could we also customize the banner per-project so that it pointed to the correct Bugzilla URL for that project? That would be rad. Nate
Re: Gitlab Turn-off Issues
El diumenge, 28 de juny de 2020, a les 22:29:06 CEST, Nicolás Alvarez va escriure: > El dom., 28 de jun. de 2020 a la(s) 16:47, Nate Graham (n...@kde.org) > escribió: > > > > On 6/28/20 12:28 PM, Ben Cooksley wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:28 AM Allen Winter wrote: > > >> > > >> Can we remove the Issues feature on all invent projects? > > >> We're starting to see more and more people adding Issues. > > >> > > >> For KOrganizer, bshah replaced Issues with Bugzilla. > > >> > > >> I very much doubt we want or are ready to replace Bugzilla. > > > > > > As has been discussed *far too many times* already, we have NO > > > INTENTION to replace Bugzilla at this stage. > > > This matter has been discussed on many threads, including on this list > > > in the past. > > > > > > Issues on Gitlab is intended to be the replacement for Phabricator Tasks. > > > Disabling them would leave projects with no developer task management > > > functionality, which would be highly undesirable as they are heavily > > > used by a number of projects. > > > > > > Your request to disable them for all KDE projects is therefore declined. > > > > The problem with this approach is that users familiar with GitHub or > > GitLab in other projects will not stop submitting bug reports using > > GitLab issues as long as it's turned on in its current form > > Hmm... Users familiar with GitHub in other projects will not stop > submitting pull requests on the KDE GitHub mirror as long as that's > turned on, and GitHub doesn't even let us turn off pull requests. > Should we get rid of the GitHub mirror? Or should we keep closing pull > requests and telling people to send their patches to Invent instead? > (This is only half-rhetoric, I actually wouldn't mind getting rid of > the GitHub mirror :P) > > > However the issue (har har) of users submitting bug reports and feature > > requests using GitLab issues is not likely to disappear without some > > kind of change. > > We can't easily change the label of the sidebar button. But what about > a banner like this: > https://invent.kde.org/games/kbounce/-/issues/new > > Do you think this would help? When creating an issue in gitlab.com you get a long wall of text saying what you have to do https://i.imgur.com/ly2mU3M.png Could we have something like that by default saying "this is for developer tasks for bugs/issues use bugs.kde.org" ? Cheers, Albert > > -- > Nicolás >
Re: Gitlab Turn-off Issues
El dom., 28 de jun. de 2020 a la(s) 17:29, Nicolás Alvarez (nicolas.alva...@gmail.com) escribió: > El dom., 28 de jun. de 2020 a la(s) 16:47, Nate Graham (n...@kde.org) > escribió: > > However the issue (har har) of users submitting bug reports and feature > > requests using GitLab issues is not likely to disappear without some > > kind of change. > > We can't easily change the label of the sidebar button. But what about > a banner like this: > https://invent.kde.org/games/kbounce/-/issues/new > > Do you think this would help? Okay, this was a banner showing: "Issues on KDE Invent are for developers to keep track of ongoing work. If you want to report a bug or request a feature, please go to the KDE bug tracker [link]". I restricted it to only appear on kbounce's "new issue" page to test it. However I just found that the banner text appears on the output of "git push" to any repository (after the "This commit is available at:" message), even if I restrict it to a single page on the web, so I just turned the banner back off >_< -- Nicolás
Re: Gitlab Turn-off Issues
El dom., 28 de jun. de 2020 a la(s) 16:47, Nate Graham (n...@kde.org) escribió: > > On 6/28/20 12:28 PM, Ben Cooksley wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:28 AM Allen Winter wrote: > >> > >> Can we remove the Issues feature on all invent projects? > >> We're starting to see more and more people adding Issues. > >> > >> For KOrganizer, bshah replaced Issues with Bugzilla. > >> > >> I very much doubt we want or are ready to replace Bugzilla. > > > > As has been discussed *far too many times* already, we have NO > > INTENTION to replace Bugzilla at this stage. > > This matter has been discussed on many threads, including on this list > > in the past. > > > > Issues on Gitlab is intended to be the replacement for Phabricator Tasks. > > Disabling them would leave projects with no developer task management > > functionality, which would be highly undesirable as they are heavily > > used by a number of projects. > > > > Your request to disable them for all KDE projects is therefore declined. > > The problem with this approach is that users familiar with GitHub or > GitLab in other projects will not stop submitting bug reports using > GitLab issues as long as it's turned on in its current form Hmm... Users familiar with GitHub in other projects will not stop submitting pull requests on the KDE GitHub mirror as long as that's turned on, and GitHub doesn't even let us turn off pull requests. Should we get rid of the GitHub mirror? Or should we keep closing pull requests and telling people to send their patches to Invent instead? (This is only half-rhetoric, I actually wouldn't mind getting rid of the GitHub mirror :P) > However the issue (har har) of users submitting bug reports and feature > requests using GitLab issues is not likely to disappear without some > kind of change. We can't easily change the label of the sidebar button. But what about a banner like this: https://invent.kde.org/games/kbounce/-/issues/new Do you think this would help? -- Nicolás
Re: Gitlab Turn-off Issues
On 6/28/20 12:28 PM, Ben Cooksley wrote: On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:28 AM Allen Winter wrote: Can we remove the Issues feature on all invent projects? We're starting to see more and more people adding Issues. For KOrganizer, bshah replaced Issues with Bugzilla. I very much doubt we want or are ready to replace Bugzilla. As has been discussed *far too many times* already, we have NO INTENTION to replace Bugzilla at this stage. This matter has been discussed on many threads, including on this list in the past. Issues on Gitlab is intended to be the replacement for Phabricator Tasks. Disabling them would leave projects with no developer task management functionality, which would be highly undesirable as they are heavily used by a number of projects. Your request to disable them for all KDE projects is therefore declined. The problem with this approach is that users familiar with GitHub or GitLab in other projects will not stop submitting bug reports using GitLab issues as long as it's turned on in its current form, because how we're proposing to use GitLab issues does not match the typical usage of the feature. I could see this situation being improved if we could rename "Issues" to "Developer Tasks" or something like that in the UI, and additionally deploy a template to every repo with a warning to submit bug reports using Bugzilla. However the issue (har har) of users submitting bug reports and feature requests using GitLab issues is not likely to disappear without some kind of change. Nate
Re: Gitlab Turn-off Issues
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:28 AM Allen Winter wrote: > > Can we remove the Issues feature on all invent projects? > We're starting to see more and more people adding Issues. > > For KOrganizer, bshah replaced Issues with Bugzilla. > > I very much doubt we want or are ready to replace Bugzilla. As has been discussed *far too many times* already, we have NO INTENTION to replace Bugzilla at this stage. This matter has been discussed on many threads, including on this list in the past. Issues on Gitlab is intended to be the replacement for Phabricator Tasks. Disabling them would leave projects with no developer task management functionality, which would be highly undesirable as they are heavily used by a number of projects. Your request to disable them for all KDE projects is therefore declined. Regards, Ben Cooksley KDE Sysadmin
Gitlab Turn-off Issues
Can we remove the Issues feature on all invent projects? We're starting to see more and more people adding Issues. For KOrganizer, bshah replaced Issues with Bugzilla. I very much doubt we want or are ready to replace Bugzilla.
