Re: Re: kqmlgraphplugin -- a QML plugin to render beautiful and interactive graphs
On Tuesday 28 January 2014 23:26:58 Albert Astals Cid wrote: I think the code is pretty stable. It's used inside KTouch without any problems since KDE 4.10. I'm less sure about how the release should be done and there these components fits in. Should this plugin be distributed on its own or as part of something bigger? Good, question, at this stage i'd either put it inside the kde-edu virtual module and get it released if with 4.13 and on or put it in extragear-libs and you care of releasing it yourself. Hi Sebastian, so do you want to/can you put kqtquickcharts into KDE-Review with the goal to have it in Extragear at the time of KDE SC 4.13? Since the time in Extragear will be at least two weeks (according to the KDE application lifecycle) it would be great to do that soon to have it in place at the time of the SC freeze. (hence to allow Artikulate to migrate to SC in time) Any possible API cleanups (if any are necessary?) then could happen with the migration to Qt5/KF5 I think. Greetings, Andreas
Re: kqmlgraphplugin -- a QML plugin to render beautiful and interactive graphs
On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 22:53:59 Sven Brauch wrote: Hi! Cool project, I really missed such a component a while back (I actually wrote my own back then, which was less nice than yours). The code looks sane too from a quick look, so I'm all for moving it to extragear (although I'm not exactly an expert for sane code). It doesn't seem to be designed for lots of data (since each point is an object, etc.), which is understandable; but eventually it would be a nice feature to add API designed towards such data in the future? On Wednesday 29 January 2014 12:41:22 Inge Wallin wrote: Regarding 3D charts, I have no idea if this is even possible using QML alone or if you need to do something else for that. I assume you're talking about the usual 3D charts, such as 3D-looking pie charts and bar graphs? For drawing those, I would not use any kind of 3D API at all. Just drawing some rectangles and ellipses clipping each other will be way easier for that purpose, which is very easy even with QtQuick 1. Those for sure, but not only. Also surface charts, which is more like what you would call a plot in some other programs. (Apart from that, those 3D effects are bad for a chart's readability anyways ;) I might even agree with you but we still need to support them. :) Except in some cases when you have a table of values that you need to visualize, then it's very difficult to do with 2D charts. -Inge Greetings, Sven
Re: kqmlgraphplugin -- a QML plugin to render beautiful and interactive graphs
Hi, Cool project, I really missed such a component a while back (I actually wrote my own back then, which was less nice than yours). The code looks sane too from a quick look, so I'm all for moving it to extragear (although I'm not exactly an expert for sane code). Thanks! It doesn't seem to be designed for lots of data (since each point is an object, etc.), which is understandable; but eventually it would be a nice feature to add API designed towards such data in the future? The line chart isn't suited at all for big data sets right now. Not only it use multiple QML items per data point but the line connecting the data points is drawn into one huge buffer, even for the parts of the line clipped by the viewport. The bar chart behaves better. It is based on a ListView item, so only the items actually visible on screen (which is a fairly limited number) are created at a given time. I think API-wise both chart types are fine. There is no inherent problem with QTableModels for large data sets I know of. But the line chart definitely needs a more efficient implementation. This is one of the points I hope I can resolve when porting to Qt Quick 2. On Wednesday 29 January 2014 12:41:22 Inge Wallin wrote: Regarding 3D charts, I have no idea if this is even possible using QML alone or if you need to do something else for that. I assume you're talking about the usual 3D charts, such as 3D-looking pie charts and bar graphs? For drawing those, I would not use any kind of 3D API at all. Just drawing some rectangles and ellipses clipping each other will be way easier for that purpose, which is very easy even with QtQuick 1. (Apart from that, those 3D effects are bad for a chart's readability anyways ;) This is no near-future stuff anyways. Best regards, Sebastian
Re: kqmlgraphplugin -- a QML plugin to render beautiful and interactive graphs
Hi, So maybe KDE QtQuick Charts as the official name and kdeqtquickcharts for the repository? kqtquickcharts? That's better. More concise. So be it. Best regards, Sebastian
Re: kqmlgraphplugin -- a QML plugin to render beautiful and interactive graphs
On Tuesday, January 28, 2014 23:26:58 Albert Astals Cid wrote: El Dissabte, 25 de gener de 2014, a les 12:17:05, Sebastian Gottfried va escriure: Hi everyone, Hi some time ago I was in need for a graphing component for my application (KTouch). As the applications UI is done entirely in QML, I was looking for an QML component to do so. Since there was no satisfactory of-the-shelf solution I decided to implement my own graphs. Currently, the code for these graphs lives in the KTouch repository in is distributed alongside KTouch. More recently, at the last Edu sprint Andreas Cord-Landwehr approached me, because he would like to use the same graphs in his new application, artikulate. So we decided to split the graphing code out of KTouch and develop it in an independent project. This was pretty simple, since technically the code was already a plugin, only bundled with KTouch. That way kqmlgraphplugin was born. The goal: Provide a set of simple components to enable applications with a QML user interface to embed clear and visually pleasing graphs for tabular data. The current state: * we have components to display line and bar graphs * data comes from a QTableModel provided by the client * all code is currently Qt4 / QML 1.1 * project is hosted as a KDE Playground Project * GIT-URL: g...@git.kde.org:kqmlgraphplugin, kqmlgraphplugin on bugs.kde.org That's missing: * API documentation Came here to say this :D * a small demo app More information on the usage of the components can be found on my blog from an old but still accurate entry: http://blog.sebasgo.net/blog/2012/09/26/line-graphs-for-qt-quick/ Andreas and me want to release this project as soon as possible to the public, since artikulate depends on this plugin already and can't be released before this. I think the code is pretty stable. It's used inside KTouch without any problems since KDE 4.10. I'm less sure about how the release should be done and there these components fits in. Should this plugin be distributed on its own or as part of something bigger? Good, question, at this stage i'd either put it inside the kde-edu virtual module and get it released if with 4.13 and on or put it in extragear-libs and you care of releasing it yourself. What's your long term plan for this module? I have been looking for a better chart module for the calligra charts for some time. The current one is good bug strictly 2D only. If you are interested in adding more chart types then we are interested in using it. But for that to be feasible we need at least: - More 2D planar types: bar charts, area charts, line charts (you have this already) - 2D polar types: Ring charts - Pie types: Pie charts, Ring charts - 3D charts: This is what is lacking now. Now, I understand that this will take a long time but I'm just wondering if you are interested in working towards this at all. Regarding 3D charts, I have no idea if this is even possible using QML alone or if you need to do something else for that. -Inge And what happens after the Qt5 / QML 2 transistion, should this be part the Frameworks 5? I think a lot of applications could be interested in such a plugin. Makes sense to me, you probably want to discuss that in the frameworks mailing list. Also interesting is the question of the wanted dependencies. Currently it uses Qt (obviously) and also imports some Plasma components for theme integration. I thinks that's no issue for a Qt4-based release, since all the QML using KDE applications already depend on Plasma components anyway, but for QML 2 it's probably better to get rid of this dependency. Agreed. Cheers, Albert Best regards, Sebastian
Re: kqmlgraphplugin -- a QML plugin to render beautiful and interactive graphs
Hi Inge, What's your long term plan for this module? I have been looking for a better chart module for the calligra charts for some time. The current one is good bug strictly 2D only. If you are interested in adding more chart types then we are interested in using it. But for that to be feasible we need at least: - More 2D planar types: bar charts, area charts, line charts (you have this already) - 2D polar types: Ring charts - Pie types: Pie charts, Ring charts - 3D charts: This is what is lacking now. Now, I understand that this will take a long time but I'm just wondering if you are interested in working towards this at all. I can't promise anything with regards to large feature additions. My focus will be releasing this software at all and the port to Qt Quick 2. Which will be, if done thoroughly, quite a big task. There is lot of QPainter use in the components, which isn't exactly encouraged in Qt Quick 2. I would avoid large feature additions before the Qt Quick 2 port and before the related technical decisions are made. It would be certainly great to have such a large user like Calligra, but for that the project's scope has to be extended significantly. So far I have designed the components for the casual chart user, like visualizing the training progress in KTouch or artikulate. It is unlikely that will be able to achieve that on my own. Regarding 3D charts, I have no idea if this is even possible using QML alone or if you need to do something else for that. This is certainly possible in Qt Quick 2. Maybe not entirely with QML but one can extend the scene graph with new 3D node types in C++. But I personally have exactly zero experience with 3D programming. Best regards, Sebastian
Re: kqmlgraphplugin -- a QML plugin to render beautiful and interactive graphs
Hi! Cool project, I really missed such a component a while back (I actually wrote my own back then, which was less nice than yours). The code looks sane too from a quick look, so I'm all for moving it to extragear (although I'm not exactly an expert for sane code). It doesn't seem to be designed for lots of data (since each point is an object, etc.), which is understandable; but eventually it would be a nice feature to add API designed towards such data in the future? On Wednesday 29 January 2014 12:41:22 Inge Wallin wrote: Regarding 3D charts, I have no idea if this is even possible using QML alone or if you need to do something else for that. I assume you're talking about the usual 3D charts, such as 3D-looking pie charts and bar graphs? For drawing those, I would not use any kind of 3D API at all. Just drawing some rectangles and ellipses clipping each other will be way easier for that purpose, which is very easy even with QtQuick 1. (Apart from that, those 3D effects are bad for a chart's readability anyways ;) Greetings, Sven
Re: kqmlgraphplugin -- a QML plugin to render beautiful and interactive graphs
El Dimecres, 29 de gener de 2014, a les 08:55:01, Sebastian Gottfried va escriure: Hi, If this uses QtQuick I would suggest that it be part of the name. QML is a more generic term, used for thing that can be used by a QML engine. Usually components without UI, like data sources, sensors, models, timers etc. Things that can be used outside a UI context or with any UI component set (QtQuick, Cascasdes, Widgets and so on). +1 QML is the language, QtQuick is the toolkit So maybe KDE QtQuick Charts as the official name and kdeqtquickcharts for the repository? kqtquickcharts? Cheers, Albert I'm undecided whether KDE should be part of the name or not, but I thinks it's better so as long it has a dependency on kderuntime for the Plasma Components. Best regards, Sebastian
Re: kqmlgraphplugin -- a QML plugin to render beautiful and interactive graphs
El Dimecres, 29 de gener de 2014, a les 09:03:17, Sebastian Gottfried va escriure: Hi, I'm less sure about how the release should be done and there these components fits in. Should this plugin be distributed on its own or as part of something bigger? Good, question, at this stage i'd either put it inside the kde-edu virtual module and get it released if with 4.13 and on or put it in extragear-libs and you care of releasing it yourself. I think releasing it with kde-edu with 4.13 is the best solution for me. If possible I would prefer this way. Works for me. What steps need to be taken to achieve this strategy? Move to review, warn the edu guys, get reviewed, done. Cheers, Albert And what happens after the Qt5 / QML 2 transistion, should this be part the Frameworks 5? I think a lot of applications could be interested in such a plugin. Makes sense to me, you probably want to discuss that in the frameworks mailing list. Okay. Best regards
Re: kqmlgraphplugin -- a QML plugin to render beautiful and interactive graphs
On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 6:17 AM, Sebastian Gottfried sebastiangottfr...@web.de wrote: Hi everyone, some time ago I was in need for a graphing component for my application (KTouch). As the applications UI is done entirely in QML, I was looking for an QML component to do so. Since there was no satisfactory of-the-shelf solution I decided to implement my own graphs. Currently, the code for these graphs lives in the KTouch repository in is distributed alongside KTouch. I don't want to start a naming bikeshed so if it is already too late to consider renaming, just dismiss these comments: The first thing I thought of when I read the name of the plugin is that it did graph rendering, like OGDF QML[0], and I was in desperate need for such a library a couple of months ago. I think graph is confusing for a couple of reasons: * There is already a concept of graphs associated to QML, as in QML Graph Scene (which is apparently the most common result I get from searching QML Graph) * In KDE, Rocs deals with Graphs and KmPlot deals with these kinds of graphs. * There is a Qt Charts[1] thing that does something similar. So I would consider renaming this to something with plot/chart. David E. Narvaez [0] https://github.com/schulzch/qml-ogdf [1] http://blog.qt.digia.com/blog/2013/06/19/qt-charts-1-3-0-released-2/
Re: kqmlgraphplugin -- a QML plugin to render beautiful and interactive graphs
On Tuesday, 2014-01-28, 11:51:06, Sebastian Gottfried wrote: Hi David, I don't want to start a naming bikeshed so if it is already too late to consider renaming, just dismiss these comments: No, that's still okay. Nothing is set in stone yet. The first thing I thought of when I read the name of the plugin is that it did graph rendering, like OGDF QML[0], and I was in desperate need for such a library a couple of months ago. I think graph is confusing for a couple of reasons: * There is already a concept of graphs associated to QML, as in QML Graph Scene (which is apparently the most common result I get from searching QML Graph) Never thought about that. * In KDE, Rocs deals with Graphs and KmPlot deals with these kinds of graphs. * There is a Qt Charts[1] thing that does something similar. So I would consider renaming this to something with plot/chart. I like charts better and would consider renaming it to kqmlchartsplugin. The QML import would be 'org.kde.charts' then. Are there any more opinions on the naming issue? If this uses QtQuick I would suggest that it be part of the name. QML is a more generic term, used for thing that can be used by a QML engine. Usually components without UI, like data sources, sensors, models, timers etc. Things that can be used outside a UI context or with any UI component set (QtQuick, Cascasdes, Widgets and so on). Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: kqmlgraphplugin -- a QML plugin to render beautiful and interactive graphs
El Dimarts, 28 de gener de 2014, a les 19:47:59, Kevin Krammer va escriure: On Tuesday, 2014-01-28, 11:51:06, Sebastian Gottfried wrote: Hi David, I don't want to start a naming bikeshed so if it is already too late to consider renaming, just dismiss these comments: No, that's still okay. Nothing is set in stone yet. The first thing I thought of when I read the name of the plugin is that it did graph rendering, like OGDF QML[0], and I was in desperate need for such a library a couple of months ago. I think graph is confusing for a couple of reasons: * There is already a concept of graphs associated to QML, as in QML Graph Scene (which is apparently the most common result I get from searching QML Graph) Never thought about that. * In KDE, Rocs deals with Graphs and KmPlot deals with these kinds of graphs. * There is a Qt Charts[1] thing that does something similar. So I would consider renaming this to something with plot/chart. I like charts better and would consider renaming it to kqmlchartsplugin. The QML import would be 'org.kde.charts' then. Are there any more opinions on the naming issue? If this uses QtQuick I would suggest that it be part of the name. QML is a more generic term, used for thing that can be used by a QML engine. Usually components without UI, like data sources, sensors, models, timers etc. Things that can be used outside a UI context or with any UI component set (QtQuick, Cascasdes, Widgets and so on). +1 QML is the language, QtQuick is the toolkit Cheers, Albert Cheers, Kevin
Re: kqmlgraphplugin -- a QML plugin to render beautiful and interactive graphs
El Dissabte, 25 de gener de 2014, a les 12:17:05, Sebastian Gottfried va escriure: Hi everyone, Hi some time ago I was in need for a graphing component for my application (KTouch). As the applications UI is done entirely in QML, I was looking for an QML component to do so. Since there was no satisfactory of-the-shelf solution I decided to implement my own graphs. Currently, the code for these graphs lives in the KTouch repository in is distributed alongside KTouch. More recently, at the last Edu sprint Andreas Cord-Landwehr approached me, because he would like to use the same graphs in his new application, artikulate. So we decided to split the graphing code out of KTouch and develop it in an independent project. This was pretty simple, since technically the code was already a plugin, only bundled with KTouch. That way kqmlgraphplugin was born. The goal: Provide a set of simple components to enable applications with a QML user interface to embed clear and visually pleasing graphs for tabular data. The current state: * we have components to display line and bar graphs * data comes from a QTableModel provided by the client * all code is currently Qt4 / QML 1.1 * project is hosted as a KDE Playground Project * GIT-URL: g...@git.kde.org:kqmlgraphplugin, kqmlgraphplugin on bugs.kde.org That's missing: * API documentation Came here to say this :D * a small demo app More information on the usage of the components can be found on my blog from an old but still accurate entry: http://blog.sebasgo.net/blog/2012/09/26/line-graphs-for-qt-quick/ Andreas and me want to release this project as soon as possible to the public, since artikulate depends on this plugin already and can't be released before this. I think the code is pretty stable. It's used inside KTouch without any problems since KDE 4.10. I'm less sure about how the release should be done and there these components fits in. Should this plugin be distributed on its own or as part of something bigger? Good, question, at this stage i'd either put it inside the kde-edu virtual module and get it released if with 4.13 and on or put it in extragear-libs and you care of releasing it yourself. And what happens after the Qt5 / QML 2 transistion, should this be part the Frameworks 5? I think a lot of applications could be interested in such a plugin. Makes sense to me, you probably want to discuss that in the frameworks mailing list. Also interesting is the question of the wanted dependencies. Currently it uses Qt (obviously) and also imports some Plasma components for theme integration. I thinks that's no issue for a Qt4-based release, since all the QML using KDE applications already depend on Plasma components anyway, but for QML 2 it's probably better to get rid of this dependency. Agreed. Cheers, Albert Best regards, Sebastian
