Re: [announcement] Telegram bridging to be retired Wed. 20 Sept. | 5 to-dos
On Tuesday, 22 August 2023 22:08:34 CEST Albert Vaca Cintora wrote: > KDE Connect has a Telegram group with 660 members (vs 100 on matrix). I > don't know if we are the exception It's not. Kdenlive is another example where most users on both the Spanish and English channels are largely on Telegram. I think you will find that developers tend to gravitate towards IRC and maybe Matrix, but end users gravitate towards Telegram and don't really want to open another account on yet another IM platform. But let me try to highlight some of the issues with this proposed plan (as is) with some questions: If we cut off hundreds of users from the rest of the community, will this action help or damage KDE's relevancy among end users? Will it increase or decrease the rate of adoption of our software? It has been mentioned that this was discussed at a BoF and on a mailing list. How many end users, say, from the KDE Connect and Kdenlive user channels on Telegram do you estimate attended the Bof and how many do you estimate regularly read the mailing lists? Is it right to make this decision behind the backs of the people who will be most affected? How does this plan fit in with KDE's vision, mission and manifesto, all three of which insist we take into account the users and their needs over most other things? As a reminder: https://community.kde.org/KDE/Vision https://community.kde.org/index.php?title=KDE/Mission https://manifesto.kde.org/ If you have a healthy growing community of end users, already in the hundreds, probably surpassing a thousand users, is it sensible to cut it off? Moving on to the schedule, do you think, we, the channel mods and admins, can realistically migrate hundreds of people to a completely new platform they probably even haven't heard of in less than a month? Do we get time to eat and sleep? Do you think cutting users off will be a convincing argument that will encourage most of the people to migrate? Have you thought of other strategies we can use that will render better results? If so, would you mind sharing them? How many of the links to Telegram peppered all through our web pages have you removed and changed to point to Matrix? If none (it is none, isn't it?), shouldn't have this been one of your first actions, to curb incoming new users away from Telegram to Matrix? Why did you not think of this? In view of your prior answers, do you think maybe this "plan" may not be much of a plan at all, that maybe it is simplistic, even harebrained, unrealistic and insensitive, and, if forced through, you may hurt the community in ways that will take years to repair? Cheers Paul > with such a big group on Telegram, but > this is going to be a hit to our community :( > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2023, 09:02 Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss, > > wrote: > > Hello KDE community, > > > > apologies for cross-posting! > > > > The time has finally come: both Telegram <-> Matrix bridges will be shut > > down in 4 weeks on *Wednesday 20 September*. Let's start the > > co-ordination process now so everything goes as smoothly as possible. > > > > For all KDE contributors: please read at least the "Five To-Dos" below > > to be informed about what will happen and what needs to be done. > > > > Below that there is some additional information about the bridging > > situation at KDE. Consult these notes if you want more background > > information about why the Telegram bridge is being retired. > > > > Cheers, > > Joseph > > > > _Five To-Dos_ > > > >1. *General*: On Wednesday 20 September the Telegram bridging to KDE > > > > Matrix rooms will be shut down. To make the transition go smoothly, > > teams should start co-ordinating for the shutdown now. The Matrix room > > for co-ordination is "Telegram shutdown co-ordination" at > > https://go.kde.org/matrix/#/#telegram-shutdown:kde.org. > > > >2. *Co-ordination*: This includes: (i) migrating all contributors to > > > > Matrix, and (ii) deleting the Telegram rooms before the bridge is > > shutdown or -- at most -- one day after the shutdown. Keeping Telegram > > rooms open when they are no longer being used will cause unnecessary > > confusion. Importantly, do not later add a non-KDE Telegram bridge to > > KDE's Matrix rooms as that will not solve the problems from doubled user > > accounts and lack of control over Telegram; see below for operational > > issues with Telegram bridging. > > > >3. *Action needed by Telegram room admins*: Due to the unexpected > > > > shutdown of the public Libera.Chat bridge, we will have to move rooms > > over to the matterbridge (ircsomebot) bridge as we work through moving > > channels over to our own Libera.Chat IRC bridge. This will require > > someone with admin in the Telegram room to ensure @ircsomebot is in the > > Telegram room with admin. This needs to be done after we unbridge the > > Matrix bridge from the Matrix side, so the room can continue to be > > bridged until the Teleg
Re: [announcement] Telegram bridging to be retired Wed. 20 Sept. | 5 to-dos
KDE Connect has a Telegram group with 660 members (vs 100 on matrix). I don't know if we are the exception with such a big group on Telegram, but this is going to be a hit to our community :( On Tue, 22 Aug 2023, 09:02 Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss, wrote: > Hello KDE community, > > apologies for cross-posting! > > The time has finally come: both Telegram <-> Matrix bridges will be shut > down in 4 weeks on *Wednesday 20 September*. Let's start the > co-ordination process now so everything goes as smoothly as possible. > > For all KDE contributors: please read at least the "Five To-Dos" below > to be informed about what will happen and what needs to be done. > > Below that there is some additional information about the bridging > situation at KDE. Consult these notes if you want more background > information about why the Telegram bridge is being retired. > > Cheers, > Joseph > > _Five To-Dos_ > >1. *General*: On Wednesday 20 September the Telegram bridging to KDE > Matrix rooms will be shut down. To make the transition go smoothly, > teams should start co-ordinating for the shutdown now. The Matrix room > for co-ordination is "Telegram shutdown co-ordination" at > https://go.kde.org/matrix/#/#telegram-shutdown:kde.org. > >2. *Co-ordination*: This includes: (i) migrating all contributors to > Matrix, and (ii) deleting the Telegram rooms before the bridge is > shutdown or -- at most -- one day after the shutdown. Keeping Telegram > rooms open when they are no longer being used will cause unnecessary > confusion. Importantly, do not later add a non-KDE Telegram bridge to > KDE's Matrix rooms as that will not solve the problems from doubled user > accounts and lack of control over Telegram; see below for operational > issues with Telegram bridging. > >3. *Action needed by Telegram room admins*: Due to the unexpected > shutdown of the public Libera.Chat bridge, we will have to move rooms > over to the matterbridge (ircsomebot) bridge as we work through moving > channels over to our own Libera.Chat IRC bridge. This will require > someone with admin in the Telegram room to ensure @ircsomebot is in the > Telegram room with admin. This needs to be done after we unbridge the > Matrix bridge from the Matrix side, so the room can continue to be > bridged until the Telegram shutdown on 20 September. > >4. *Are there exceptions?": There /may/ be some rooms that focus on > interacting with people external to the KDE Community who would benefit > by having a Telegram bridge. We are thinking teams like those involved > in the KDE Network program: https://community.kde.org/The_KDE_Network. > Not all will need an exception, and it may turn out most don't. We would > like to start putting together a list of these rooms so we can review > for potential exceptions and estimate the scale of how much support is > needed. However, this should be kept to a minimum; see below for > operational issues with Telegram bridging. We understand that there are > large internal KDE communities which rely heavily on Telegram, and we > understand that shutting down the Telegram bridge is less than ideal for > these rooms, but the issues we have with the Telegram bridge mean we > need to keep exceptions to a minimum and only for those teeams whose > work has a primarily external focus. > >5. *Getting a Matrix account*: We can offer KDE Contributors (usually > those in the developers group, but will consider other requests) a > Matrix account on our KDE Matrix Homeserver. To request an account > please file a sysadmin ticket https://go.kde.org/systickets. However, as > Matrix is federated you do not need to have an account on our homeserver > to access KDE's Matrix rooms -- you can use any homeserver! A list of > some alternative Matrix servers is available on > https://joinmatrix.org/servers/. > > To co-ordinate with other teams to make this transition go as smoothly > as possible, please reach out to the "Telegram shutdown co-ordination" > Matrix room: https://go.kde.org/matrix/#/#telegram-shutdown:kde.org. > > _Additional Information Re Bridges_ > >* Four years ago it was decided to add Matrix to IRC as KDE's > official IM platforms (bridged together). IRC is not planned to be shut > down. > >* Telegram is not Free Software and has never been an official > platform for KDE communications. However, it has been used unofficially > in a number of areas. > >* EMS hosts KDE's Matrix instance and the current Telegram bridge, > and the majority of issues our community have with Matrix are related to > bridges. Due to the huge extra load and poor performance Telegram > bridging has in the Matrix rooms, it was agreed with EMS that the bridge > would be only run for about a year until people had time to migrate to > Matrix. > >* However, instead of people migrating away from Telegram, we have > seen an increase in contributors using /both/ Matrix and Telegram, which > has doubled the number of users we have to cope w
Re: [announcement] Telegram bridging to be retired Wed. 20 Sept. | 5 to-dos
I side with the comments made by Niccolo and Abert. We have some 300 users in Telegram vs about 170 on Matrix for the visual design channel. Our audience, being a graphical design and user experience channel, tends to attract users who are more inclined to the arts and may be less technical than other users. For these users the experience needs to be a good one, frictionless. I feel that removing the bridge will negatively impact these users who likely will have to jump through hoops to set up applications with sub-par experiences. I understand the argument of wanting to use open source software. It's an objective of our community. It is also true that our open source alternatives do not match commercial applications. It is also true that it might also be an unreliable experience overtime as well. What are our alternatives should we keep the bridge? Would we expect it to break at some point? What are the certainties of this happening? Thank you, Andy On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 4:09 PM Albert Vaca Cintora wrote: > > KDE Connect has a Telegram group with 660 members (vs 100 on matrix). I don't > know if we are the exception with such a big group on Telegram, but this is > going to be a hit to our community :( > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2023, 09:02 Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss, wrote: >> >> Hello KDE community, >> >> apologies for cross-posting! >> >> The time has finally come: both Telegram <-> Matrix bridges will be shut >> down in 4 weeks on *Wednesday 20 September*. Let's start the >> co-ordination process now so everything goes as smoothly as possible. >> >> For all KDE contributors: please read at least the "Five To-Dos" below >> to be informed about what will happen and what needs to be done. >> >> Below that there is some additional information about the bridging >> situation at KDE. Consult these notes if you want more background >> information about why the Telegram bridge is being retired. >> >> Cheers, >> Joseph >> >> _Five To-Dos_ >> >>1. *General*: On Wednesday 20 September the Telegram bridging to KDE >> Matrix rooms will be shut down. To make the transition go smoothly, >> teams should start co-ordinating for the shutdown now. The Matrix room >> for co-ordination is "Telegram shutdown co-ordination" at >> https://go.kde.org/matrix/#/#telegram-shutdown:kde.org. >> >>2. *Co-ordination*: This includes: (i) migrating all contributors to >> Matrix, and (ii) deleting the Telegram rooms before the bridge is >> shutdown or -- at most -- one day after the shutdown. Keeping Telegram >> rooms open when they are no longer being used will cause unnecessary >> confusion. Importantly, do not later add a non-KDE Telegram bridge to >> KDE's Matrix rooms as that will not solve the problems from doubled user >> accounts and lack of control over Telegram; see below for operational >> issues with Telegram bridging. >> >>3. *Action needed by Telegram room admins*: Due to the unexpected >> shutdown of the public Libera.Chat bridge, we will have to move rooms >> over to the matterbridge (ircsomebot) bridge as we work through moving >> channels over to our own Libera.Chat IRC bridge. This will require >> someone with admin in the Telegram room to ensure @ircsomebot is in the >> Telegram room with admin. This needs to be done after we unbridge the >> Matrix bridge from the Matrix side, so the room can continue to be >> bridged until the Telegram shutdown on 20 September. >> >>4. *Are there exceptions?": There /may/ be some rooms that focus on >> interacting with people external to the KDE Community who would benefit >> by having a Telegram bridge. We are thinking teams like those involved >> in the KDE Network program: https://community.kde.org/The_KDE_Network. >> Not all will need an exception, and it may turn out most don't. We would >> like to start putting together a list of these rooms so we can review >> for potential exceptions and estimate the scale of how much support is >> needed. However, this should be kept to a minimum; see below for >> operational issues with Telegram bridging. We understand that there are >> large internal KDE communities which rely heavily on Telegram, and we >> understand that shutting down the Telegram bridge is less than ideal for >> these rooms, but the issues we have with the Telegram bridge mean we >> need to keep exceptions to a minimum and only for those teeams whose >> work has a primarily external focus. >> >>5. *Getting a Matrix account*: We can offer KDE Contributors (usually >> those in the developers group, but will consider other requests) a >> Matrix account on our KDE Matrix Homeserver. To request an account >> please file a sysadmin ticket https://go.kde.org/systickets. However, as >> Matrix is federated you do not need to have an account on our homeserver >> to access KDE's Matrix rooms -- you can use any homeserver! A list of >> some alternative Matrix servers is available on >> https://joinmatrix.org/servers/. >> >> To co-ordinate with other teams to
KDE Gear projects with failing CI (master) (23 August 2023)
Please work on fixing them, otherwise i will eventually remove the failing CI jobs, it is very important that CI is passing for multiple reasons. Bad news: We have 2 new repositories failing = FAILING Qt6 (3 repos) = k3b: (2nd week) * https://invent.kde.org/multimedia/k3b/-/pipelines/459995 * There seems to be a MR. Please act on it kate: * https://invent.kde.org/utilities/kate/-/pipelines/464938 * Windows tests are not passing kclock: * https://invent.kde.org/utilities/kclock/-/pipelines/464956 * cmake complains about Qt::Widgets
Re: KDE Gear projects with failing CI (release/23.08) (23 August 2023)
El dimarts, 22 d’agost de 2023, a les 23:16:51 (CEST), Albert Astals Cid va escriure: > Please work on fixing them, otherwise i will eventually remove the failing > CI jobs, it is very important that CI is passing for multiple reasons. > > Bad news, we have regressed in 2 repositories :/ Thanks to everyone's fast act we are now again with all repositories passing in release/23.08 :) Cheers, Albert > > = FAILING flatpak (2 repos) = > > itinerary: > * https://invent.kde.org/pim/itinerary/-/pipelines/464878 > * Fallout from the ZXing changes in the SDK > > arianna: > * https://invent.kde.org/graphics/arianna/-/jobs/1141884 > * Doesn't have autoincreasing version so flatpak complains of two versions > with the same release number > > > Cheers, > Albert
Re: Planning the final 6 release timeframes
Video call at https://meet.kde.org/b/ada-mi8-aem
KDE Gear projects with failing CI (release/23.08) (23 August 2023)
Please work on fixing them, otherwise i will eventually remove the failing CI jobs, it is very important that CI is passing for multiple reasons. Bad news, we have regressed in 2 repositories :/ = FAILING flatpak (2 repos) = itinerary: * https://invent.kde.org/pim/itinerary/-/pipelines/464878 * Fallout from the ZXing changes in the SDK arianna: * https://invent.kde.org/graphics/arianna/-/jobs/1141884 * Doesn't have autoincreasing version so flatpak complains of two versions with the same release number Cheers, Albert
Re: New project to translate videos subtitles
Le lun. 21 août 2023 à 20:48, Ben Cooksley a écrit : > > On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 12:00 AM Johnny Jazeix wrote: >> >> Hi, > > > Hi Johnny, > >> >> >> Inspired by the accessibility goal, Promo had the idea of including >> subtitles and closed captions for videos for several KDE projects >> (Akademy interviews, GCompris videos like >> https://tube.kockatoo.org/w/symxHCzUj9TA7LZoZagD9c...). >> >> I've created a repository which handles the conversion from subtitles >> <=> po files for translators using KDE scripts >> (https://invent.kde.org/jjazeix/srt2po) and Translate Toolkit. >> There is also a script to upload the subtitles to the KDE peertube instance. >> >> There could be several issues with translating only the text but I >> still think it's worth it to be able to translate them using the usual >> KDE workflow: >> * if we want to display some lines longer because the translated text >> takes more time to read; >> * if we want to add extra texts at different times. >> In order to workaround these issues, the project will also allow >> translator to directly write the srt files instead of passing by a po >> file. >> All the srt files will be centralised here, which will avoid >> translators to look for them. >> >> In which gitlab group would it be better to create this repository and >> what would be the process to create it? Accessibility ou Utilities >> seem good to me but as it will contain more data than scripts/code, >> maybe there is a better place for it. > > > This isn't something that fits terribly well within our existing groupings, > especially given it is mostly promotional content. > > The tooling itself that supports this should go to SDK I would say, as this > is something that only a developer/translator/etc would use (never an actual > user). > > In the absence of anything else, websites/ works well for the actual content > itself given this will end up attached to videos we publish online. > That would be good for me. There is actually one script (to upload to peertube). At some point, it would be nice to have the same for YouTube. The conversion between srt and po is done via an existing toolkit so if it fits the needs, there won't be any more scripts. Is there an existing SDK repo that could welcome these scripts? The srt files can go to a new Websites repository, that is ok for me. I'll wait until the end of the week to create a sysadmin ticket in case there is more to discuss before creating it. Thanks Albert and Ben, Johnny > Cheers, > Ben > >> >> >> Cheers, >> Johnny
Re: Planning the final 6 release timeframes
Thanks for organizing this, David. Where and how will the meeting be held? Nate On 8/22/23 09:22, David Edmundson wrote: A time has been chosen on the poll with a clear winner: 4th September 18:00 CEST See you all there David Edmundson
Re: Planning the final 6 release timeframes
A time has been chosen on the poll with a clear winner: 4th September 18:00 CEST See you all there David Edmundson
[announcement] Telegram bridging to be retired Wed. 20 Sept. | 5 to-dos
Hello KDE community, apologies for cross-posting! The time has finally come: both Telegram <-> Matrix bridges will be shut down in 4 weeks on *Wednesday 20 September*. Let's start the co-ordination process now so everything goes as smoothly as possible. For all KDE contributors: please read at least the "Five To-Dos" below to be informed about what will happen and what needs to be done. Below that there is some additional information about the bridging situation at KDE. Consult these notes if you want more background information about why the Telegram bridge is being retired. Cheers, Joseph _Five To-Dos_ 1. *General*: On Wednesday 20 September the Telegram bridging to KDE Matrix rooms will be shut down. To make the transition go smoothly, teams should start co-ordinating for the shutdown now. The Matrix room for co-ordination is "Telegram shutdown co-ordination" at https://go.kde.org/matrix/#/#telegram-shutdown:kde.org. 2. *Co-ordination*: This includes: (i) migrating all contributors to Matrix, and (ii) deleting the Telegram rooms before the bridge is shutdown or -- at most -- one day after the shutdown. Keeping Telegram rooms open when they are no longer being used will cause unnecessary confusion. Importantly, do not later add a non-KDE Telegram bridge to KDE's Matrix rooms as that will not solve the problems from doubled user accounts and lack of control over Telegram; see below for operational issues with Telegram bridging. 3. *Action needed by Telegram room admins*: Due to the unexpected shutdown of the public Libera.Chat bridge, we will have to move rooms over to the matterbridge (ircsomebot) bridge as we work through moving channels over to our own Libera.Chat IRC bridge. This will require someone with admin in the Telegram room to ensure @ircsomebot is in the Telegram room with admin. This needs to be done after we unbridge the Matrix bridge from the Matrix side, so the room can continue to be bridged until the Telegram shutdown on 20 September. 4. *Are there exceptions?": There /may/ be some rooms that focus on interacting with people external to the KDE Community who would benefit by having a Telegram bridge. We are thinking teams like those involved in the KDE Network program: https://community.kde.org/The_KDE_Network. Not all will need an exception, and it may turn out most don't. We would like to start putting together a list of these rooms so we can review for potential exceptions and estimate the scale of how much support is needed. However, this should be kept to a minimum; see below for operational issues with Telegram bridging. We understand that there are large internal KDE communities which rely heavily on Telegram, and we understand that shutting down the Telegram bridge is less than ideal for these rooms, but the issues we have with the Telegram bridge mean we need to keep exceptions to a minimum and only for those teeams whose work has a primarily external focus. 5. *Getting a Matrix account*: We can offer KDE Contributors (usually those in the developers group, but will consider other requests) a Matrix account on our KDE Matrix Homeserver. To request an account please file a sysadmin ticket https://go.kde.org/systickets. However, as Matrix is federated you do not need to have an account on our homeserver to access KDE's Matrix rooms -- you can use any homeserver! A list of some alternative Matrix servers is available on https://joinmatrix.org/servers/. To co-ordinate with other teams to make this transition go as smoothly as possible, please reach out to the "Telegram shutdown co-ordination" Matrix room: https://go.kde.org/matrix/#/#telegram-shutdown:kde.org. _Additional Information Re Bridges_ * Four years ago it was decided to add Matrix to IRC as KDE's official IM platforms (bridged together). IRC is not planned to be shut down. * Telegram is not Free Software and has never been an official platform for KDE communications. However, it has been used unofficially in a number of areas. * EMS hosts KDE's Matrix instance and the current Telegram bridge, and the majority of issues our community have with Matrix are related to bridges. Due to the huge extra load and poor performance Telegram bridging has in the Matrix rooms, it was agreed with EMS that the bridge would be only run for about a year until people had time to migrate to Matrix. * However, instead of people migrating away from Telegram, we have seen an increase in contributors using /both/ Matrix and Telegram, which has doubled the number of users we have to cope with. Having twice as many users as needed in the room slows everything down: longer joins, more state events for each user, higher chances of room state developing problems. * The public Libera.Chat bridge was unexpectedly shutdown, and we have to move rooms over to the matterbridge (ircsomebot) bridge as we work through moving channels over to our own
