On Thu, Sep 21, 2023 at 8:11 PM Neal Gompa wrote:
>
> On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 8:53 AM Niels De Graef wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Thanks Neal for including me!
> >
>
> Thanks for joining in the conversation!
>
> > (For the people who don't know me, I work for Red Hat as the product
> > owner in the GPU team, which has maintained (and some time ago
> > deprecated) Xorg, as well as maitning other graphics APIs such as
> > Wayland, OpenGL, Vulkan etc. I'm also a GNOME contributor in my free
> > time and sometimes do Wayland advocacy in local communities.)
> >
> > I'll put my answers inline so we can keep things a bit structured here.
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 6:45 AM Neal Gompa wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey all,
> > >
> > > So unless you've been living under a rock for the past week, you might
> > > have noticed a bunch of buzz about Fedora KDE proposing to drop the
> > > X11 session with Plasma 6[1]. Those of you who were at Akademy last
> > > year[2] or this year[3] knew that this was coming. For the rest of
> > > you... 來
> > >
> > > Over the past few days, I've gotten a deluge of use-cases and needs
> > > that would be useful to sort through and figure out actions to move
> > > forward on. Some of them, I've got ideas, others less so.
> >
> > Before deep-diving: thanks for writing this up! It's good to have some
> > discussions going on each topic
> >
> > > The first thing that came up was that KiCad seems to need help and has
> > > had a bad experience interfacing with some folks over resolving their
> > > issues moving into a Wayland world.
> > > *
> > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/de...@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/6KLDR4WM7PMJ7VJTP4LH2HA4RAMCR6UJ/
> > > *
> > > https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/g/devlist/c/-glHquy0b20/m/nSBa_ntOAAAJ
> > > I don't have any particular suggestions here, though David Edmundson
> > > mentioned in the Fedora KDE Matrix room the idea of creating a new
> > > protocol to support their particular need of positioning and plumbing
> > > it through to Qt so that wxQt can use it. Also, some dedicated
> > > outreach might be a good idea to get them to be more amenable to the
> > > Wayland world.
> >
> > In terms of general outreach to the KiCad project: I looked into it a
> > while ago after a friend of mine pointed out that they thought it was
> > a shame it didn't have Wayland support.
> >
> > Basically, the community had closed the issue for Wayland support as
> > WONTFIX due to the belief that Wayland wouldn't fix their issues, so I
> > tried to clear up some of the confusion:
> > https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/-/issues/7207#note_1356840266 . At
> > the very least it _looks_ like things improved since then, but it
> > still needs a bit of "massaging" to keep mindsets in a positive
> > environment. At the very least, it seems like some of their features
> > might be unblocked, and they reopened the issue as well.
> >
> > FWIW: I'm a contributor to GIMP as well, and I had to work through a
> > similar mentality, where people have/had similar negative attitudes
> > towards Wayland. The problem is that also for them, it takes patience
> > and understanding the problems they face, as they fall into an "XY
> > problem" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem): "I need to have
> > global positioning" (which is a WONTFIX current for most Wayland
> > developers) vs "I want to restore the positions of my toplevel
> > windows" (which would be solved with the xdg-session-management
> > protocol that's proposed upstream).
> >
> > > Session restore has come up a few times. It actually came up during
> > > the initial discussion within the SIG too, and has come up again
> > > during the proposal discussion in Fedora.
> > > * https://pagure.io/fedora-kde/SIG/issue/347#comment-856399
> > > *
> > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/de...@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/D76KHIPEPS6N7N3QHX6KBVDQ4RF5NVYO/
> > > GNOME designed a protocol for their use, can we reuse this as an
> > > initial way to solve this problem? What's stopping us from doing
> > > something here?
> >
> > In case anyone's interested, Philip Withnall (who worked on this) made
> > a blog post about it at
> > https://tecnocode.co.uk/2023/08/07/guadec-2023/ , which also contains
> > a link to the video & slides of his talk.
> >
> > > Barrier/Input-Leap has come up as well. Seamless keyboard and mouse
> > > handoff across computers is in demand.
> > > * https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/89794/6
> > > * https://invent.kde.org/plasma/xdg-desktop-portal-kde/-/issues/12
> > > The necessary portal frontends have landed in xdg-desktop-portal and
> > > so we're just missing the requisite backend in xdg-desktop-portal-kde.
> >
> > Just a quick note that Input Leap should be supported starting GNOME
> > 45 (which will be shipped with Fedora 39)
> >
>
> FYI: A compatible version of Input Leap is also going to be shipped in
> Fedora 39's repositories.
>
> > > Something that was a
