Re: A story of a former Kdenlive's user (switched to Olive)
sob., 11 maj 2019 o 20:03 Jacob Kauffmann napisał(a): > > On Sat, May 11, 2019, at 10:28 AM, Tobiasz Karoń wrote: > > If you want to just "cut the tape" and don't need any effects or > compositing - Kdenlvie may be acceptable. But not if you want to do > anything more complex. > > > I don't think this is true, and I strongly dislike the implication that > people who use Kdenlive aren't "serious" editors. I've been using Kdenlive > since at least 2012, and over the years, I've done all kinds of > compositing, rotoscoping, color correction, chroma-keying, and other things > with it beyond simply "cutting the tape." > Oh no - that's not what I meant. I am pretty serious about making videos, and I know many people who also use Kdenlive for serious work What I wanted to say is that doing complex work in Kdenlive is an order of magnitude harder than doing very simple ones. The software becomes very flaky, and the user needs to take extra caution and wokraround problems as their projects complexity grows. That's my experience at least. For example - I had so much problems with the Rotoscoping effect that I just decided to stop trying, becasue it gave me more trouble than gains. Maybe for some users (on some systems?) they can work reliably, unfortunately not for me :) > I do agree that the limitations you talked about are very real issues-- I > have felt like I'm "pushing the limits" of Kdenlive with some of my > projects (although I'm always proud to do so.) I didn't even realize how > much of an issue the lack of GPU utilization was until I tried Resolve for > a month. (I still ended up coming back to Kdenlive because it's libre > software and because Resolve doesn't work with the open-source AMDGPU > drivers and ROCm OpenCL, though.) > I had the same "revelation" once I tried Olive. I was like "Wo my hardware CAN process it this fast? WOW!" > As far as "starting over" goes, my impression is that that's the point of > refactoring sections of the program: to get rid of the old built-up crud > that's holding things back. I would be interested to know how closely the > Kdenlive devs work/are willing to work with MLT to improve it alongside the > frontend. > If that's the case, then I'm looking forward to it. > Just my two cents, since it seems like it's sharing day. > > - Jacob Kauffmann > Thanks! -- - Tobiasz 'unfa' Karoń www.youtube.com/unfa000
Re: A story of a former Kdenlive's user (switched to Olive)
On Sat, May 11, 2019, at 10:28 AM, Tobiasz Karoń wrote: > If you want to just "cut the tape" and don't need any effects or compositing > - Kdenlvie may be acceptable. But not if you want to do anything more complex. I don't think this is true, and I strongly dislike the implication that people who use Kdenlive aren't "serious" editors. I've been using Kdenlive since at least 2012, and over the years, I've done all kinds of compositing, rotoscoping, color correction, chroma-keying, and other things with it beyond simply "cutting the tape." I do agree that the limitations you talked about are very real issues-- I have felt like I'm "pushing the limits" of Kdenlive with some of my projects (although I'm always proud to do so.) I didn't even realize how much of an issue the lack of GPU utilization was until I tried Resolve for a month. (I still ended up coming back to Kdenlive because it's libre software and because Resolve doesn't work with the open-source AMDGPU drivers and ROCm OpenCL, though.) As far as "starting over" goes, my impression is that that's the point of refactoring sections of the program: to get rid of the old built-up crud that's holding things back. I would be interested to know how closely the Kdenlive devs work/are willing to work with MLT to improve it alongside the frontend. Just my two cents, since it seems like it's sharing day. - Jacob Kauffmann
Re: example project: 19.04 Multitrack compositing still broken: differs from all previous Kdenlive versions back to 15 and before
On Sat, May 11, 2019, at 8:55 AM, Daniil V. Kolpakov wrote: > So I've downloaded an appimage (the > kdenlive-18.12.1b-x86_64.appimage) and tried running it and opening my > old project with it. Seems to work! Although I'm still afraid of > updating the Arch :D > If the AppImage can open your project, there's nothing dangerous about updating the package. AppImages are completely self-contained and don't rely on the packages.
A story of a former Kdenlive's user (switched to Olive)
Hey! I've read Harald's e-mail and I thought maybe I'll share my Kdenlvie experience with you as well. I've been a heavy Kdenlive user for about 18 months, when I switched from Blender VSE, seeing it's not being worked on and I cannot expect the bugs that cripple my workflow to be ever fixed. About two months ago I've upgraded from 16 to 32 GB of RAM to help myself with editing videos in Kdenlive. A month later I immediately gave up using Kdeinlive, after I've discovered Olive. Olive is a very young project (about 20 months in development at this point). And it made me realize how painful it is to do my work with Kdenlive (or Blender VSE to be fair). Olive uses OpenGL for all image processing. It uses GLSL shaders for effects and compositing. I was even able to create a Despill effect myself to get a better Green Screen compositing. That being said I have a feeling that my trouble with Kdenlive will not lead to any progress, and I prefer to have issues with Olive that has a promising start and a community I can get in touch with easily. Also - it gives me an order of magnitude better experience than anything else right away, so why shouldn't iI use it? A minro problem was for the past year (or something?) I couldn't log into my KDE account, because they enforce using your real name as login, and I have diacritics in my name, I also can't use a password that I'd want so I had once to contact an admit to even log in, and I just don't have the tim deal with that.. That made me feel like the KDE community is making it harder for me to communicate. Why can't I use a login and password of my choosing? I find that a strange decision and I'm just out of the KDE forums until that's changed. I've stopped reporting bugs, also knowing that the refactoring is a priority. I think Kdenlive has some great functions, but is also a huge mess. There are three groups of effects based on keyframing (no keyframing, a table keyframing, and a timeline keyframing). The effects are affecting the image in ways they shouldn't - transform and wipe will change the color balance, whic is visible on the RGB parade - I show that in my rant video). The performance is abysmal if you want to do any compositing (which I do a lot). If you want to just "cut the tape" and don't need any effects or compositing - Kdenlvie may be acceptable. But not if you want to do anything more complex. There's a UV Mapping compositor, that's useless, because the whole pipeline is only 8-bit. Which gives you 256x256 pixels addressable. GPU support is non-functional and crashes Kdenlive every time for me. Multithrraded rendering or even playback is broken and gives me white frames every time. My recent two serious projects got random audio sync issues and audio clicks (randomly different with each render). That was the last straw for me, and I snapped. Here are the two last videos I've made with Kdenlive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpMP8uGGpzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ulks8T6z6BU The issues created by Kdenlive in my work has cost me too much time and beard hair. Even my wife is relived that I'm not using it any more. I bless the Heavens for Olive, as I can retain my sanity and make videos that I love. I think that as long as Kdenlive is coupled with MLT - it'll be inhereting it's problems. I don't know how that looks on the inside, but I guess Kdenlive is probably doing a lot of work just to workaround MLT's limitations and quirks. Also - Kdenlvie has a long legacy, which is holding it back. Olvie has non of that - and kowing it's developers and community - it migth become a tool even better than some of the industry standards like Adobe Premiere (which also has a lot of legacy and quirks). Anyway - I've expressed my issues and frustration in a video: https://youtu.be/ym1brc2OcYQ After I published this, I one of the developers of Kdelvie cam to Olive Disocrd and we got in touch talking about the issues. I've send him my latest projects so he can investigate the audio clicks/desync issue (I couldn't reproduce it in a simmle project). I've decided to take that video down after a week. As I though maybe it's sending a needlessly negative message, but since I've decidd to make it public again, as there'struth there that has to be said, even if it's not nice to listen to. I hope you can undesrtand that. I hope Kdenlive can be reborn, but I am afraid a lot of things just need to be replaced entirely if it's going to ever become a truly modern video editor. In my honest opition (being completely unaware of the Kdenlive's internal structure) it'd be better to just go back to the drawing board and design an entirely new achitecture taking into account all experience of Kdenlive. That experience is probably the most valuable asset you guys have. I don't think you're gonna do that, as you've invested so much time and effort into it. I'm thinking about the "sunken cost fallacy". I'm a really sorry to say that - but I don't elbie any more
Re: example project: 19.04 Multitrack compositing still broken: differs from all previous Kdenlive versions back to 15 and before
On 10.05.2019 08:29, Evert Vorster wrote: As a package maintainer for the kdenlive package in Arch By the way, I'm an Arch user and I'm currently refraining from updating the Arch on my home machine because I have a long pre-19.04 project unfinished. I've also updated Arch at another machine at work and happen to edit another video with 19.04 — not my daily job but anyway. The 19.04 looks more or less OK for me but I'm afraid of the project incompatibility. So I've downloaded an appimage (the kdenlive-18.12.1b-x86_64.appimage) and tried running it and opening my old project with it. Seems to work! Although I'm still afraid of updating the Arch :D
