[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
In my case ( see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1460985 ) the culprit generating huge I/O throughput was in /etc/cron.daily/man-db It's such a long-standing and persistent bug that the default advice I give nowadays to people complaining about their ubuntu "got stuck again" is to run "sudo killall -9 find". That's really a shame: - it's not some random IO spike coming from nowhere - it's not 3rd-party, it's in default install - it's reproducible Yet, we still don't even have workaround, let alone proper policing IO of all the background tasks shipped in default ubuntu install. Hopefully migration to systemd timer units would help tackling it. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in linux package in Ubuntu: Confirmed Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
Hi AZ, thanks for your feedback. >> IMHO if something overloads your machine with disk I/O it has to stall it. > This is a bit tricky, because overload means that the machine will be able > not complete all task in the time given, i.e. tasks will accumulate until the > resources are exhausted. Though, we usually do not have this situation on > desktop machines. Excuse me - I didn't want to phrase it too hard - it is surely ok to assume that a system stays responsive :-) But when you add an background indexer like in the initial example you add some serious load. The system might add a few other things and somewhen it is this overloaded. Would you agree to modify your "Though, we usually do not have this situation on desktop machines." to "Though, we usually *should* not have this situation on desktop machines."? Because that is the point where my suggestion of "throttling the few loads that cause these situations" kicks in. > So this bug is mostly about having too big delays in applications using only a small bit of the available resources (like when switching back to a libreoffice window) when some other applications (like background file indexing) are asking for the remaining disk io resource capacities. When I think of an overload case where e.g. a Process submits requests as fast as it can (especially with asynchronous I/O a process can quickly fill up hundreds of I/Os to the block device layer). Now what should a process scheduler or I/O scheduler do? 1. handle them asap -> achieve good throughput, but might add some stalls to the system 2. throttle them -> improves responsiveness by avoiding overload, but this comes at certain prices 2a) if the process scheduler stalls it people start to ask "there is nothing else on the runqueue, why isn't it running? I want to get all I can from my HW". 2b) if the I/O scheduler stalls it people start to ask "hey my device could handle way more, why isn't it fully utilized with the request queue being filled" (remember all the "fun" people had with anticipatory scheduler) Both 2a and 2b existed in various patches/tunings and almost every time the decision was that "the default" can not be to stall too much because there are different demands. That was the reason why I personally didn't think about a cool new piece of code (which surely someone could write), but instead of a good mitigation of the most frequent cases with tools that are already there (like the cgroup io throttling I suggested) >> Code improves to mitigate effects but can never be perfect for *ALL* users >> at once (especially in the default config) >I do not agree. Long story short - a default configuration has to be a tradeoff trying to make everyone happy but no one sad (hard job). > Desktop responsiveness was achieved with older ubuntu versions on the given hw and is achieved with other operating systems (windows) on a broad range of hardware. I'm coming from the server world, and there I/O throughput, I/O latency and even process latency and fairness clearly is superior compared to older releases as well as when compared well to other OSes. But that doesn't negate your experience - it is just a different one. > I believe desktop responsiveness is something sufficiently specific a cpu and io scheduler can be tuned to. You are right that probably cpu and io scheduler could be tuned, but that gets to the point of the default having to be a trade-off between different user groups demands - so the default might be right just neither for you (wants more responsiveness) nor for me (wants more I/O). > Using cgroups and alike might help, but should be configured by Ubuntu by default if necessary. And here I totally agree, we could really think about isolating the most obvious hogs. Especially those that people "didn't realize" they had. So if one runs a huge database or an I/O benchmark he willingly chose a heavy I/O workload. But if a background indexer causes the same, users might quite often not even know about its existence. That is what I wanted to achieve with "open a separate bug requesting configurable throttling for each component applicable like trackerd and so many other I/O heavy background tasks" Within those bugs it could be discussed and rated "per application" if it makes sense to either isolate and throttle them by default or at least to provide an easy method to do so. Another way could be something like different "user/tuning profiles" to distinguish the need for different defaults. But I guess we should strive to give the best out of the box experience so isolating the most obvious hogs first would surely be a good idea. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in linux package in Ubuntu: Confirmed Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
Thanks for driving this forward. You argue from > So let us make one thing clear, IMHO if something overloads your machine with > disk I/O it has to stall it. This is a bit tricky, because overload means that the machine will be able not complete all task in the time given, i.e. tasks will accumulate until the resources are exhausted. Though, we usually do not have this situation on desktop machines. There we have tasks to do and want them to complete as fast as possible, thought some tasks may take longer than others. For example, copying a 5 GB DVD disk will take some minutes or so, but refreshing the browser window or switching windows should never. Overlay here would mean the user will turn of the machine and by a windows licence. So this bug is mostly about having too big delays in applications using only a small bit of the available resources (like when switching back to a libreoffice window) when some other applications (like background file indexing) are asking for the remaining disk io resource capacities. > Code improves to mitigate effects but can never be perfect for *ALL* users at once (especially in the default config) I do not agree. Desktop responsiveness was achieved with older ubuntu versions on the given hw and is achieved with other operating systems (windows) on a broad range of hardware. I believe desktop responsiveness is something sufficiently specific a cpu and io scheduler can be tuned to. Using cgroups and alike might help, but should be configured by Ubuntu by default if necessary. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in linux package in Ubuntu: Confirmed Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
It might not be good to stir up such an old bug, but it gets regularly updated and new complains so maybe a new approach might help. So let us make one thing clear, IMHO if something overloads your machine with disk I/O it has to stall it. So the solutions paths are more like this: a) beat it with more Processsing / IO HW b) mitigate the effect as far as possible c) avoid the overload before it starts The issue is a common one - so I'll keep my explanations general and not specific to trackerd or any other case that was mentioned before. ### a) beat it with more Processsing / IO HW ### There are way more expensive machines out there which can handle way more I/O without being slown down. The reason is that they have more I/O Cards, virtual functions to spread over CPUs handling that and at the high end servers with totally different I/O IRQ designs. We should agree that on cheap/slow or even medium machines I/O overload just *IS* an issue to responsiveness. But that isn't important - the question is what can a normal user do about it and spending x00 $ on a machine isn't the solution. ### b) mitigate the effect as far as possible ### So regarding mitigation there were already some approaches in this bug discussion. Like using ionice and several dirty ratio tunings, but all these don't prevent the I/O overload. E.g. if you overload the system with only "Best Effort" I/O class, the only difference it makes is that "other I/O" might pass faster, but your system is still fairly busy => unresponsive Also dirty ratios come down to spending the process remaining time slice to clean up dirty memory as soon as a certain level is reached, now while you can configure higher ratios (at the price of endangering integrity) it also won't stop the burst of I/O. No instead it will allow to submit more data to dirty the page cache and thereby indirectly more I/O overloading the system again. ### c) avoid the overload before it starts ### It must be said, since this bug starts back in 2007 and a lot of the reports are related to I/O+*sync that just for sync&journaling various filesystem and general kernel improvements have been mad. Several posts in this bug confirm this already. Now what I didn't see people trying throttle the processes that overload the system. Throttling at => https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/cgroups/blkio-controller.txt As any - this approach has certain limitations, but it is a new way to tackle the overall issue. It also need certain cgroup and filesystem features (like accounting writeback through pagecache) which might only be available in modern ubuntu releases. ### Experiment ### As an experiment to prove the solution I use the tools fio and latencytop to compare: 1. no background load checking latencytop 2. running a random read/write mutlithread fio in background checking latencytop 3. running a throttled random read/write mutlithread fio in background checking latencytop # Background Load # A fio job file like this: [global] ioengine=libaio rw=randrw bssplit=1k/25:4k/50:64k/25 size=512m directory=/home/paelzer/latencytest iodepth=8 [dio] direct=1 numjobs=8 [pgc] direct=0 numjobs=8 # Case 1 - No background load => almost no latency CauseMaximum Percentage Waiting for event (select) 5,0 msec 39,7 % Waiting for event (poll)5,0 msec 33,9 % Userspace lock contention 4,8 msec 25,7 % [do_wait] 2,7 msec 0,4 % [ep_poll] 2,4 msec 0,2 % Reading from file 0,9 msec 0,0 % Reading EXT3 directory htree0,2 msec 0,0 % [hrtimer_nanosleep] 0,1 msec 0,0 % # Case 2 - Unrestricted background load overloading the I/O subsystem shows massive impact - ext4 data/log writes - memory management due to trashing page cache ... => Fast Jobs: 16 (f=16): [m(16)] [6.7% done] [92482KB/99.50MB/0KB /s] [6302/6483/0 iops] [eta 01m:51s] CauseMaximum Percentage [ext4_file_write_iter] 91,8 msec 0,3 % [wait_transaction_locked] 63,4 msec 0,1 % Marking inode dirty61,2 msec 0,9 % [SyS_io_destroy] 46,3 msec 0,3 % [lru_add_drain_all]18,0 msec 0,1 % [__block_write_begin] 16,8 msec 38,5 % [__lock_page_killable] 16,2 msec 34,7 % [read_events] 5,0 msec 21,2 % Waiting for event (poll)5,0 msec 1,9 % # Case 3 - Now the same workl
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
@Christopher: This is not incomplete. Thanks. ** Changed in: linux (Ubuntu) Status: Incomplete => Confirmed -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in linux package in Ubuntu: Confirmed Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
done. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in linux package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
god (humper), please file a new report via a terminal: ubuntu-bug linux Feel free to subscribe me to it. ** Changed in: linux (Ubuntu) Status: Confirmed => Incomplete -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in linux package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
I can observe this even on ssd with both ubuntu and mainline kernels. Especially when some background task like update.mlocate which spits out fs-wide find is triggered. ** Changed in: linux (Ubuntu) Status: Incomplete => Confirmed -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in linux package in Ubuntu: Confirmed Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
Davide Depau, it would help immensely if you filed a new report via a terminal: ubuntu-bug linux Please feel free to subscribe me to it. ** No longer affects: linux (Ubuntu) ** Project changed: linuxmint => linux (Ubuntu) ** No longer affects: linux (Ubuntu) ** Project changed: linux => linux (Ubuntu) ** Changed in: linux (Ubuntu) Importance: High => Undecided ** Changed in: linux (Ubuntu) Status: Fix Released => New ** Changed in: linux (Ubuntu) Remote watch: Linux Kernel Bug Tracker #12309 => None ** Changed in: linux (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided => Low ** Changed in: linux (Ubuntu) Status: New => Incomplete -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in linux package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
This issue is not getting enough attention. I don't know if you all have SSDs but most people don't. On hard disk drives this is a huge issue. System responsiveness drops when tracker is running and pretty much nothing else can run smoothly while it's running, even on computers with fast CPU/large amounts of RAM. The I/O is often the cause of system slowdown and this needs to be reduced as much as possible. I'm sure this issue can be fixed, a background daemon doesn't need to run at full speed, it can be niced to 19, and internal fixes can be made. ** Changed in: linux (Ubuntu) Status: Incomplete => Confirmed -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in The Linux Kernel: Fix Released Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: Invalid Status in linux package in Ubuntu: Confirmed Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
** Changed in: linuxmint Status: New => Invalid -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in The Linux Kernel: Fix Released Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: Invalid Status in “linux” package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
Now Christopher is onto me. He started vandalizing another of my bug reports. Bug #1247189. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in The Linux Kernel: Fix Released Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: New Status in “linux” package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
I'm surprised this is being debated. Look at Google: https://www.google.com.au/search?q=linux+high+io+desktop&oq=linux+high+&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j69i64l2.1936j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 You will clearly see that high enough IO will harm desktop responsiveness. Surely all of these people aren't making it up? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in The Linux Kernel: Fix Released Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: New Status in “linux” package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
And who is to say that comment #15 is not just a mere speculation at best? What does he mean by limited hardware? Every comp that has HDD and not SSD? You really had someone's absolutely valid bug report closed because he wasn't able to do a git bisect? Just how many times did you do that? Who gave you the authority? How do you benefit from these kinds of things? Just as Ronin has said: please show a little more empathy and stop talking to people like a robot with your canned comments. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in The Linux Kernel: Fix Released Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: New Status in “linux” package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
Quoting from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/336652/comments/15 : "this is a serious issue but only affects limited hardware..." -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in The Linux Kernel: Fix Released Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: New Status in “linux” package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
Adam Niedling wrote: "I'm just somebody who is affected by this bug which you are trying to close in a very crafty way. It's not a speculation that you're doing this all the time, you did this to 2 or 3 of my own bugs. I'm getting tired of you pasting the same text everywhere. Maybe you're pasting it to hundreds of bugs. There is no effort in pasting some text. However you are asking people to do a lot of work which takes huge effort. Most of the time it's completely unnecessary cause no one has made anything to fix the issue. "Hey! No developer has ever touched this bug but let's ask the poor user who is suffering from it a ton of questions and half day of working and testing the latest mainline kernel maybe he won't be able to do it or just simply has no idea how to do it so we can close this completely valid bug! And let's just ignore the bug even if the poor user does all that work ha ha ha. Oh yeah and make sure to paste lots of links about etiquette and what not so I will look official even though I'm not working for Canonical I'm just messing around with people's bugs." >> I can definitely recognize some of the behavior described here by Adam, and also suffered from it in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/908691 . In my case I could even pinpoint a specific mainline commit, but my inability to do the non-mainline git bisect requested by M. Penalver meant my request fell in deaf ears. I closed my own bug diplomatically, but it was extremely disappointing experience to see so little response for all the effort I put. I understand Canonical must have lots of bug triage to do, but I'd too love a little more humanity in processing them. Canned answers and strict protocol don't show a lot of empathy, and don't echo into much user love. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in The Linux Kernel: Fix Released Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: New Status in “linux” package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
Thanks for analysing each and every sentence of mine one by one. Who says only the original reporter can comment on bugs? I'm not the original reporter, I'm just somebody who is affected by this bug which you are trying to close in a very crafty way. It's not a speculation that you're doing this all the time, you did this to 2 or 3 of my own bugs. I'm getting tired of you pasting the same text everywhere. Maybe you're pasting it to hundreds of bugs. There is no effort in pasting some text. However you are asking people to do a lot of work which takes huge effort. Most of the time it's completely unnecessary cause no one has made anything to fix the issue. "Hey! No developer has ever touched this bug but let's ask the poor user who is suffering from it a ton of questions and half day of working and testing the latest mainline kernel maybe he won't be able to do it or just simply has no idea how to do it so we can close this completely valid bug! And let's just ignore the bug even if the poor user does all that work ha ha ha. Oh yeah and make sure to paste lots of links about etiquette and what not so I will look official even though I'm not working for Canonical I'm just messing around with people's bugs." -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in The Linux Kernel: Fix Released Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: New Status in “linux” package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
Adam Niedling, thank you for your comments regarding them: "...are you going to tell all the 165 people that are affected by this bug to open a new bug report..." Given the Bug Description is so vague it's largely useless "heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times", if one has a performance problem, and for hardware tracking purposes, then one would want to file a new report. For more on this, please read the official Ubuntu documentation: Ubuntu Bug Control and Ubuntu Bug Squad: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/BestPractices#X.2BAC8-Reporting.Focus_on_One_Issue Ubuntu Kernel Team: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelTeamBugPolicies#Filing_Kernel_Bug_reports Ubuntu Community: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#Bug_reporting_etiquette "...for the same issue which is not even hardware related?" This is speculation at best. "If you just took a minute you could test this bug yourself instead of require us to do all that work to test the latest mainline kernel." I've never had heavy disk I/O affect desktop responsiveness with my hardware, both with a HDD 3GB RAM, and now SSD with 8GB. "I think you are just mass closing linux kernel related bugs that are still valid and affect many people." This is also speculation at best, and incorrect. I've never mass closed any bugs anywhere, and your baseless accusations are not appreciated. "Some of them have upstream bug reports which indicate that no actual work has been done to address those issues." One having filed an upstream bug report, on a tracker which has no permission restrictions on who can file, is largely irrelevant if the full hardware isn't known, it hasn't been tested in the latest mainline kernel, it hasn't been bisected if a regression, and doesn't have specific, objective metrics demonstrating the issue. "So why do testing?" Testing gets a bug report one step closer to a fix. The best question is why do the complaining, which gets you nowhere? ;) "Even if someone does the testing most likely no work will be done by downstream to fix the issue." More incorrect speculation. Downstream has the same information requirements as upstream, as previously noted. No developer is going to take a strong interest in working on any problem, up or down, without it. "So what's the point? I think doing what you're doing is just making more harm than good." Wasting time arguing about things previously documented and discussed ad nauseam would be considered doing more harm than good, with the time better spent actually doing the testing and bug report filing previously requested. If you have further comments, please refrain from making them in this report, as you are not the original reporter, and it already has quite enough "Me too!" and "Why isn't this fixed already?" comments. Instead, you are welcome to contact me directly, and/or redirect them to the appropriate mailing list or forum. http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists might be a good start for determining which mailing list to use. Thank you for your understanding. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in The Linux Kernel: Fix Released Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: New Status in “linux” package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
Christopher M. Penalver: are you going to tell all the 165 people that are affected by this bug to open a new bug report for the same issue which is not even hardware related? If you just took a minute you could test this bug yourself instead of require us to do all that work to test the latest mainline kernel. I think you are just mass closing linux kernel related bugs that are still valid and affect many people. Some of them have upstream bug reports which indicate that no actual work has been done to address those issues. So why do testing? Even if someone does the testing most likely no work will be done by downstream to fix the issue. So what's the point? I think doing what you're doing is just making more harm than good. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in The Linux Kernel: Fix Released Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: New Status in “linux” package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
I don't think it is related to http://lwn.net/Articles/572911/ because it is a 32bit machine. I'll file the report later when I've got access to the said machine. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in The Linux Kernel: Fix Released Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: New Status in “linux” package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
vsuarez, so your hardware may be tracked, could you please file a new report by executing the following in a terminal while booted into a Ubuntu repository kernel (not a mainline one) via: ubuntu-bug linux For more on this, please read the official Ubuntu documentation: Ubuntu Bug Control and Ubuntu Bug Squad: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/BestPractices#X.2BAC8-Reporting.Focus_on_One_Issue Ubuntu Kernel Team: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelTeamBugPolicies#Filing_Kernel_Bug_reports Ubuntu Community: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#Bug_reporting_etiquette When opening up the new report, please feel free to subscribe me to it. Thank you for your understanding. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in The Linux Kernel: Fix Released Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: New Status in “linux” package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
IO is still an issue on every Ubuntu machine I've used - whenever it becomes heavily used, everything else slows down, sometimes drastically. What is there to test - has anything been done to address it? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in The Linux Kernel: Fix Released Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: New Status in “linux” package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
Vadim Peretokin, so your hardware may be tracked, could you please file a new report by executing the following in a terminal while booted into a Ubuntu repository kernel (not a mainline one) via: ubuntu-bug linux For more on this, please read the official Ubuntu documentation: Ubuntu Bug Control and Ubuntu Bug Squad: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/BestPractices#X.2BAC8-Reporting.Focus_on_One_Issue Ubuntu Kernel Team: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelTeamBugPolicies#Filing_Kernel_Bug_reports Ubuntu Community: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#Bug_reporting_etiquette When opening up the new report, please feel free to subscribe me to it. Thank you for your understanding. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in The Linux Kernel: Fix Released Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: New Status in “linux” package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
Can this be related with this issue? http://lwn.net/Articles/572911/ -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in The Linux Kernel: Fix Released Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: New Status in “linux” package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Kernel-packages] [Bug 131094] Re: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness
Jamie McCracken, this bug was reported a while ago and there hasn't been any activity in it recently. We were wondering if this is still an issue? If so, could you please test for this with the latest development release of Ubuntu? ISO images are available from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ . If it remains an issue, could you please run the following command in the development release from a Terminal (Applications->Accessories->Terminal), as it will automatically gather and attach updated debug information to this report: apport-collect -p linux Also, could you please test the latest upstream kernel available (not the daily folder, but the one at the top) following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelMainlineBuilds ? It will allow additional upstream developers to examine the issue. Once you've tested the upstream kernel, please comment on which kernel version specifically you tested. If this bug is fixed in the mainline kernel, please add the following tags: kernel-fixed-upstream kernel-fixed-upstream-VERSION-NUMBER where VERSION-NUMBER is the version number of the kernel you tested. For example: kernel-fixed-upstream-v3.13-rc4 This can be done by clicking on the yellow circle with a black pencil icon next to the word Tags located at the bottom of the bug description. As well, please remove the tag: needs-upstream-testing If the mainline kernel does not fix this bug, please add the following tags: kernel-bug-exists-upstream kernel-bug-exists-upstream-VERSION-NUMBER As well, please remove the tag: needs-upstream-testing Once testing of the upstream kernel is complete, please mark this bug's Status as Confirmed. Please let us know your results. Thank you for your understanding. ** No longer affects: linux-source-2.6.22 (Ubuntu) ** Changed in: linux (Ubuntu) Status: Confirmed => Incomplete -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131094 Title: Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness Status in The Linux Kernel: Fix Released Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: New Status in “linux” package in Ubuntu: Incomplete Bug description: Binary package hint: linux-source-2.6.22 When compared with 2.6.15 in feisty, heavy disk I/O causes increased iowait times and affects desktop responsiveness in 2.6.22 this appears to be a regression from 2.6.15 where iowait is much lower and desktop responsiveness is unaffected with the same I/O load Easy to reproduce with tracker - index the same set of files with 2.6.15 kernel and 2.6.22 kernel and the difference in desktop responsiveness is massive I have not confirmed if a non-tracker process which does heavy disk i/o (especially writing) replicates this yet - will do further investigation soon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/131094/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages Post to : kernel-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kernel-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
