Re: [Kicad-developers] [fun feature request] Create PCB from schematic with one click :)

[Wayne Stambaugh]

On 3/6/2018 4:18 PM, Robbert Lagerweij wrote:
> Op 5-3-2018 om 18:49 schreef Wayne Stambaugh:
>> All kidding aside, I was told by a very highly skilled board designer
>> not to waste our time with auto-routers because no one actually uses
>> them except for the simplest designs with lots of free board space and
>> few or no routing restrictions.  This is someone who uses Altium in his
>> day job and has laid out far more boards than I have.  I'm guessing
>> auto-routers appeal to hobbyists rather than professionals.
> I guess this begs the question, who is kicad targeting? Are we trying to 
> serve the professionals or also be a tool for the less skilled 
> (comparative) masses.

For those of you who are new here, the answer is professionals.  If we
can accommodate hobbyists without alienating professional designers all
the better but I will not throw professional developers under the bus to
appease the hobbyists.

> 
>> There are far more useful features to add to KiCad
>> than auto-routing.  If we ever get to the point we are sitting around
>> twiddling our thumbs, then we should work on an auto-router.
> I absolutely agree, but after reading this article 
> https://wp.josh.com/2017/10/23/adventures-in-autorouting/, I did find 
> myself wondering what a Google Summer of Code Student (with some 
> opencl/machine learning/other buzzword skills) might be able to do with 
> the auto-router.

I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.  How many students do you
know that are expert board designers?  I'll lean on my developers who
understand how to layout a board for this one.  I'm not a buzz word kind
of developer. ;)

> 
> Robbert
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [fun feature request] Create PCB from schematic with one click :)

[Robbert Lagerweij]

Op 5-3-2018 om 18:49 schreef Wayne Stambaugh:
> All kidding aside, I was told by a very highly skilled board designer
> not to waste our time with auto-routers because no one actually uses
> them except for the simplest designs with lots of free board space and
> few or no routing restrictions.  This is someone who uses Altium in his
> day job and has laid out far more boards than I have.  I'm guessing
> auto-routers appeal to hobbyists rather than professionals.
I guess this begs the question, who is kicad targeting? Are we trying to 
serve the professionals or also be a tool for the less skilled 
(comparative) masses.

> There are far more useful features to add to KiCad
> than auto-routing.  If we ever get to the point we are sitting around
> twiddling our thumbs, then we should work on an auto-router.
I absolutely agree, but after reading this article 
https://wp.josh.com/2017/10/23/adventures-in-autorouting/, I did find 
myself wondering what a Google Summer of Code Student (with some 
opencl/machine learning/other buzzword skills) might be able to do with 
the auto-router.

Robbert
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [fun feature request] Create PCB from schematic with one click :)

[Nick Østergaard]

There is an option in pcbnew to delete all tracks already...

2018-03-06 9:13 GMT+01:00 Ingo Kletti :

>
> Am 05.03.2018 um 19:07 schrieb Andy Peters:
>
>> I'm guessing auto-routers appeal to hobbyists rather than professionals.
>>>
>>
>> How many questions on forums do you see from hobbyists asking about how
>> to autoroute, or wondering if the results from the autorouter are good?
>>
>
> A great deal of my day job is supporting students working on layouts.
> Almost every second layout that someone wants advice on is done using the
> autorouter although they have been told to do it manually.
>
> Since they also ignored all advice and documentation on design rules and
> component placement, these layouts are a complete mess.
>
> Therefore a feature that I'd like to see is "select all traces" -> "delete
> all traces" ;-)
>
> All jokes aside: I'd also vote for not investing manpower in autorouting.
>
>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [fun feature request] Create PCB from schematic with one click :)

[Rob Maris]

Am 06.03.2018, 09:13 Uhr, schrieb Ingo Kletti :



Since they also ignored all advice and documentation on design rules and
component placement, these layouts are a complete mess.


Apparently, many students believe that computers who beat chess world champions 
are also able to autoroute and even autoplace world class as well...
Try to motivate them by telling them that humans still by far outperform 
computers on autorouting. They should even be happy about that.

Regards,
Rob

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Re: [Kicad-developers] [fun feature request] Create PCB from schematic with one click :)

[Ingo Kletti]

Am 05.03.2018 um 19:07 schrieb Andy Peters:

I'm guessing auto-routers appeal to hobbyists rather than professionals.


How many questions on forums do you see from hobbyists asking about how to 
autoroute, or wondering if the results from the autorouter are good?


A great deal of my day job is supporting students working on layouts. 
Almost every second layout that someone wants advice on is done using 
the autorouter although they have been told to do it manually.


Since they also ignored all advice and documentation on design rules and 
component placement, these layouts are a complete mess.


Therefore a feature that I'd like to see is "select all traces" -> 
"delete all traces" ;-)


All jokes aside: I'd also vote for not investing manpower in autorouting.


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Re: [Kicad-developers] [fun feature request] Create PCB from schematic with one click :)

[Russell Oliver]

I didn't mean to infer that the final location of a part would be
determined by the schematic, just the initial placement of parts in pcbnew
when the netlist is first read. Similar to the spread out all components
tool. A starting point.

I can also imagine a tool that would try to minimise the overall bounding
box of the selection, with maybe a specified minimum gap.

I think there exists plenty of scope for semi automatic processes to boost
designer productivity; dragging tracks attached to a component, grouping
tools, pin swapping. Single/differential track autorouting i.e select a net
or pair and auto route it and present multiple alternatives. Much like the
alternative routes in say Google maps.

And many more that are probably all ready thought of and have been made
into a script.




On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 07:53 Andy Peters,  wrote:

>
> > On Mar 5, 2018, at 11:49 AM, Russell Oliver 
> wrote:
> >
> > In terms of automatically arranging  components a force directed graph
> algorithm may work quite nicely, especially if the algorithm is seeded with
> the layout of components on the schematic.
> >
> > A simplistic version would be to just arrange components on board sheet
> as to their position on the schematic sheets.
>
> That approach might be fine for something like a VME CPU board filled with
> 74xxx TTL parts, but modern designs have too many other considerations. For
> example, most things fit into some kind of enclosure, and as such the
> mechanical constraints matter, and then trying to draw a schematic to
> represent placement can make a mess of things. What if the person drawing
> the schematic has no idea at the start what kind of enclosure will be used?
>
> The “seeding” can be in some cases inferred from the netlist and
> connections. This goes to that, that goes to something else, and this that
> there ends up being in the middle. pcbnew’s netlist import generally keeps
> parts on the same schematic page together. Start with stuff that needs to
> be located specifically because of mechanical concerns. It usually turns
> out that parts will go whether they need to go, and that becomes obvious
> once you have them all on the canvas and the rats nest is visible. You
> start with the big parts and fit the supporting parts around them.
>
> I can’t think of any board I’ve done in the last {harumph!} years where I
> drew the schematic in a way that reflected the final parts placement.
>
> -a
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [fun feature request] Create PCB from schematic with one click :)

[Pedro Martin]

So it is already implemented in the legacy canvas:

-Global spread and place -> Spread out All Footprints
-Autoroute -> Automatically Route All Footprints

Well, two clicks instead one just one.

I'm with Wayne: no effort should be added to autorouting as there are 
plenty of features to sort out.


What about 16 layer autorouter, with differential pairs, automatic 
zones, impedance matching, etc...


We are wasting our time with this topic, but some fun from time to time 
doesn't hurt.


Pedro.

El 05/03/18 a las 19:49, Russell Oliver escribi�:

In terms of automatically arranging  components a force directed graph
algorithm may work quite nicely, especially if the algorithm is seeded
with the layout of components on the schematic.

A simplistic version would be to just arrange components on board sheet
as to their position on the schematic sheets.

On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 05:07 Andy Peters, > wrote:



> On Mar 5, 2018, at 10:49 AM, Wayne Stambaugh > wrote:
>
> I was thinking one level of abstraction higher where I just input my
> design requirements and it spits out a schematic, full simulation to
> match the design requirements, and a completed board layout.  That
would
> make my job a *lot* easier. ;)

Maybe it can do my FPGA design for me, and also write firmware for
the ARM processor too! Why am I doing all of this hard work when I
could be drinking coffee and reading the New York Times?

> All kidding aside, I was told by a very highly skilled board designer
> not to waste our time with auto-routers because no one actually uses
> them except for the simplest designs with lots of free board space and
> few or no routing restrictions.  This is someone who uses Altium
in his
> day job and has laid out far more boards than I have.

At the previous day job, we did VME and CompactPCI single-board
computers, and the layout people took advantage of full-up Specctra
autorouting. The designs had a lot of wide parallel buses and
suchlike which could be autorouted, but there was still plenty of
stuff on those boards which needed to be routed manually. And
setting up constraints for the autorouter was still a couple of days
work.

At the current job everything is smaller. Each product has multiple
boards that need to connect correctly. Boards are mixed signal, they
have power supply parts, there are connectors that poke through the
enclosure, etc etc etc and suffice it to say we never autoroute.
Assisted routing, like the Kicad push-and-shove, and Altium�s �bus
routing� (a feature I�d like to see in Kicad, for sure!) goes a long
way.


> I'm guessing auto-routers appeal to hobbyists rather than
professionals.

How many questions on forums do you see from hobbyists asking about
how to autoroute, or wondering if the results from the autorouter
are good?

-a
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [fun feature request] Create PCB from schematic with one click :)

[Russell Oliver]

The "spring" constants in a force directed graph algorithm could be set by
a user given priority or even by the length of schematic wires.

On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 05:53 Jon Evans,  wrote:

> In many commercial tools you can use some or another feature to mark up
> the design at the schematic level with what components "go together".
> Then that information is used during PCB placement, the first-pass arrange
> of components when you start designing a board can place those components
> together, but it is also possible to group them together and move as a
> group easily, etc.
>
> There are even some tools that automatically identify bypass capacitors
> (did the schematic have a capacitor drawn right near a pin on an IC?  In
> that case, assume it's a bypass cap) and can place them right near the IC
> (and run ERCs to make sure you don't have missing bypass caps, DRC to make
> sure they are close enough to the power pin in the layout, etc)
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 1:49 PM, Russell Oliver 
> wrote:
>
>> In terms of automatically arranging  components a force directed graph
>> algorithm may work quite nicely, especially if the algorithm is seeded with
>> the layout of components on the schematic.
>>
>> A simplistic version would be to just arrange components on board sheet
>> as to their position on the schematic sheets.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 05:07 Andy Peters,  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Mar 5, 2018, at 10:49 AM, Wayne Stambaugh 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I was thinking one level of abstraction higher where I just input my
>>> > design requirements and it spits out a schematic, full simulation to
>>> > match the design requirements, and a completed board layout.  That
>>> would
>>> > make my job a *lot* easier. ;)
>>>
>>> Maybe it can do my FPGA design for me, and also write firmware for the
>>> ARM processor too! Why am I doing all of this hard work when I could be
>>> drinking coffee and reading the New York Times?
>>>
>>> > All kidding aside, I was told by a very highly skilled board designer
>>> > not to waste our time with auto-routers because no one actually uses
>>> > them except for the simplest designs with lots of free board space and
>>> > few or no routing restrictions.  This is someone who uses Altium in his
>>> > day job and has laid out far more boards than I have.
>>>
>>> At the previous day job, we did VME and CompactPCI single-board
>>> computers, and the layout people took advantage of full-up Specctra
>>> autorouting. The designs had a lot of wide parallel buses and suchlike
>>> which could be autorouted, but there was still plenty of stuff on those
>>> boards which needed to be routed manually. And setting up constraints for
>>> the autorouter was still a couple of days work.
>>>
>>> At the current job everything is smaller. Each product has multiple
>>> boards that need to connect correctly. Boards are mixed signal, they have
>>> power supply parts, there are connectors that poke through the enclosure,
>>> etc etc etc and suffice it to say we never autoroute. Assisted routing,
>>> like the Kicad push-and-shove, and Altium’s “bus routing” (a feature I’d
>>> like to see in Kicad, for sure!) goes a long way.
>>>
>>>
>>> > I'm guessing auto-routers appeal to hobbyists rather than
>>> professionals.
>>>
>>> How many questions on forums do you see from hobbyists asking about how
>>> to autoroute, or wondering if the results from the autorouter are good?
>>>
>>> -a
>>> ___
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>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [fun feature request] Create PCB from schematic with one click :)

[Jon Evans]

In many commercial tools you can use some or another feature to mark up the
design at the schematic level with what components "go together".
Then that information is used during PCB placement, the first-pass arrange
of components when you start designing a board can place those components
together, but it is also possible to group them together and move as a
group easily, etc.

There are even some tools that automatically identify bypass capacitors
(did the schematic have a capacitor drawn right near a pin on an IC?  In
that case, assume it's a bypass cap) and can place them right near the IC
(and run ERCs to make sure you don't have missing bypass caps, DRC to make
sure they are close enough to the power pin in the layout, etc)



On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 1:49 PM, Russell Oliver 
wrote:

> In terms of automatically arranging  components a force directed graph
> algorithm may work quite nicely, especially if the algorithm is seeded with
> the layout of components on the schematic.
>
> A simplistic version would be to just arrange components on board sheet as
> to their position on the schematic sheets.
>
>
> On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 05:07 Andy Peters,  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > On Mar 5, 2018, at 10:49 AM, Wayne Stambaugh 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I was thinking one level of abstraction higher where I just input my
>> > design requirements and it spits out a schematic, full simulation to
>> > match the design requirements, and a completed board layout.  That would
>> > make my job a *lot* easier. ;)
>>
>> Maybe it can do my FPGA design for me, and also write firmware for the
>> ARM processor too! Why am I doing all of this hard work when I could be
>> drinking coffee and reading the New York Times?
>>
>> > All kidding aside, I was told by a very highly skilled board designer
>> > not to waste our time with auto-routers because no one actually uses
>> > them except for the simplest designs with lots of free board space and
>> > few or no routing restrictions.  This is someone who uses Altium in his
>> > day job and has laid out far more boards than I have.
>>
>> At the previous day job, we did VME and CompactPCI single-board
>> computers, and the layout people took advantage of full-up Specctra
>> autorouting. The designs had a lot of wide parallel buses and suchlike
>> which could be autorouted, but there was still plenty of stuff on those
>> boards which needed to be routed manually. And setting up constraints for
>> the autorouter was still a couple of days work.
>>
>> At the current job everything is smaller. Each product has multiple
>> boards that need to connect correctly. Boards are mixed signal, they have
>> power supply parts, there are connectors that poke through the enclosure,
>> etc etc etc and suffice it to say we never autoroute. Assisted routing,
>> like the Kicad push-and-shove, and Altium’s “bus routing” (a feature I’d
>> like to see in Kicad, for sure!) goes a long way.
>>
>>
>> > I'm guessing auto-routers appeal to hobbyists rather than professionals.
>>
>> How many questions on forums do you see from hobbyists asking about how
>> to autoroute, or wondering if the results from the autorouter are good?
>>
>> -a
>> ___
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>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [fun feature request] Create PCB from schematic with one click :)

[Russell Oliver]

In terms of automatically arranging  components a force directed graph
algorithm may work quite nicely, especially if the algorithm is seeded with
the layout of components on the schematic.

A simplistic version would be to just arrange components on board sheet as
to their position on the schematic sheets.

On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 05:07 Andy Peters,  wrote:

>
>
> > On Mar 5, 2018, at 10:49 AM, Wayne Stambaugh 
> wrote:
> >
> > I was thinking one level of abstraction higher where I just input my
> > design requirements and it spits out a schematic, full simulation to
> > match the design requirements, and a completed board layout.  That would
> > make my job a *lot* easier. ;)
>
> Maybe it can do my FPGA design for me, and also write firmware for the ARM
> processor too! Why am I doing all of this hard work when I could be
> drinking coffee and reading the New York Times?
>
> > All kidding aside, I was told by a very highly skilled board designer
> > not to waste our time with auto-routers because no one actually uses
> > them except for the simplest designs with lots of free board space and
> > few or no routing restrictions.  This is someone who uses Altium in his
> > day job and has laid out far more boards than I have.
>
> At the previous day job, we did VME and CompactPCI single-board computers,
> and the layout people took advantage of full-up Specctra autorouting. The
> designs had a lot of wide parallel buses and suchlike which could be
> autorouted, but there was still plenty of stuff on those boards which
> needed to be routed manually. And setting up constraints for the autorouter
> was still a couple of days work.
>
> At the current job everything is smaller. Each product has multiple boards
> that need to connect correctly. Boards are mixed signal, they have power
> supply parts, there are connectors that poke through the enclosure, etc etc
> etc and suffice it to say we never autoroute. Assisted routing, like the
> Kicad push-and-shove, and Altium’s “bus routing” (a feature I’d like to see
> in Kicad, for sure!) goes a long way.
>
>
> > I'm guessing auto-routers appeal to hobbyists rather than professionals.
>
> How many questions on forums do you see from hobbyists asking about how to
> autoroute, or wondering if the results from the autorouter are good?
>
> -a
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [fun feature request] Create PCB from schematic with one click :)

[Andy Peters]

> On Mar 5, 2018, at 10:49 AM, Wayne Stambaugh  wrote:
> 
> I was thinking one level of abstraction higher where I just input my
> design requirements and it spits out a schematic, full simulation to
> match the design requirements, and a completed board layout.  That would
> make my job a *lot* easier. ;)

Maybe it can do my FPGA design for me, and also write firmware for the ARM 
processor too! Why am I doing all of this hard work when I could be drinking 
coffee and reading the New York Times?

> All kidding aside, I was told by a very highly skilled board designer
> not to waste our time with auto-routers because no one actually uses
> them except for the simplest designs with lots of free board space and
> few or no routing restrictions.  This is someone who uses Altium in his
> day job and has laid out far more boards than I have.  

At the previous day job, we did VME and CompactPCI single-board computers, and 
the layout people took advantage of full-up Specctra autorouting. The designs 
had a lot of wide parallel buses and suchlike which could be autorouted, but 
there was still plenty of stuff on those boards which needed to be routed 
manually. And setting up constraints for the autorouter was still a couple of 
days work.

At the current job everything is smaller. Each product has multiple boards that 
need to connect correctly. Boards are mixed signal, they have power supply 
parts, there are connectors that poke through the enclosure, etc etc etc and 
suffice it to say we never autoroute. Assisted routing, like the Kicad 
push-and-shove, and Altium’s “bus routing” (a feature I’d like to see in Kicad, 
for sure!) goes a long way.


> I'm guessing auto-routers appeal to hobbyists rather than professionals. 

How many questions on forums do you see from hobbyists asking about how to 
autoroute, or wondering if the results from the autorouter are good?

-a
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [fun feature request] Create PCB from schematic with one click :)

[Wayne Stambaugh]

One thing that may be of more interest to board designers is an
automatic footprint placement algorithm that minimizes the number of air
wire crossings.  Not so much to place the footprints but to orient them.
 A few years ago someone proposed using a chemical reaction stability
algorithm where the number of air wire crossings were used to determine
the heat between neighboring footprints.  There was even an open source
library that was generic enough to use for our purposes.  I'm not sure
if this message is on the launchpad mailing list or if this went back to
the sourceforge mailing list.

On 3/5/2018 12:56 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
> Yes, I have also heard that from my hard-core board design colleagues. 
> No one uses auto-routers anymore, they instead use interactive routers
> that have gotten very good lately.
> 
> We should continue to push the KiCad interactive (PNS) router to add
> capabilities (multi-net routing, via array styles, automatic fan-out,
> automatic clean-up, automatic completion, etc).
> Then, a feature such as "auto-route the last bit of this track because
> the user nudged the component over slightly or rotated it 90 degrees"
> sort of come for free.
> 
> -Jon
> 
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 12:49 PM, Wayne Stambaugh  > wrote:
> 
> I was thinking one level of abstraction higher where I just input my
> design requirements and it spits out a schematic, full simulation to
> match the design requirements, and a completed board layout.  That would
> make my job a *lot* easier. ;)
> 
> All kidding aside, I was told by a very highly skilled board designer
> not to waste our time with auto-routers because no one actually uses
> them except for the simplest designs with lots of free board space and
> few or no routing restrictions.  This is someone who uses Altium in his
> day job and has laid out far more boards than I have.  I'm guessing
> auto-routers appeal to hobbyists rather than professionals.  I've never
> seen an auto-router come any where close to how I would route a board so
> I never use them.  There are far more useful features to add to KiCad
> than auto-routing.  If we ever get to the point we are sitting around
> twiddling our thumbs, then we should work on an auto-router.
> 
> On 3/5/2018 12:16 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
> > Actually the second point in that post is a gem (rerouting of tracks
> > when you move a component)  It is a feature of some super-high end
> > packages (Xpedition, Allegro I think) but missing from lots of paid
> > tools (Altium, Zuken, etc).
> >
> > It's on my list of things I want to add to KiCad at some point (if
> > someone else doesn't get to it first), but it's also one of the most
> > complex problems to solve on that list...
> >
> > -Jon
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 12:09 PM, Tomasz Wlostowski
> > 
>  >> wrote:
> >
> >     Ladies and gentlemen, there's a lot of work for us ahead!
> >
> >     
> https://www.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/comments/815fz2/what_eda_is_really_the_best_out_there_for_macos/
> 
> 
> >     
>  
> >
> >
> >     Cheers,
> >     Tom
> >
> >     ___
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> 
> >      >
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [fun feature request] Create PCB from schematic with one click :)

[Jon Evans]

Yes, I have also heard that from my hard-core board design colleagues.  No
one uses auto-routers anymore, they instead use interactive routers that
have gotten very good lately.

We should continue to push the KiCad interactive (PNS) router to add
capabilities (multi-net routing, via array styles, automatic fan-out,
automatic clean-up, automatic completion, etc).
Then, a feature such as "auto-route the last bit of this track because the
user nudged the component over slightly or rotated it 90 degrees" sort of
come for free.

-Jon

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 12:49 PM, Wayne Stambaugh 
wrote:

> I was thinking one level of abstraction higher where I just input my
> design requirements and it spits out a schematic, full simulation to
> match the design requirements, and a completed board layout.  That would
> make my job a *lot* easier. ;)
>
> All kidding aside, I was told by a very highly skilled board designer
> not to waste our time with auto-routers because no one actually uses
> them except for the simplest designs with lots of free board space and
> few or no routing restrictions.  This is someone who uses Altium in his
> day job and has laid out far more boards than I have.  I'm guessing
> auto-routers appeal to hobbyists rather than professionals.  I've never
> seen an auto-router come any where close to how I would route a board so
> I never use them.  There are far more useful features to add to KiCad
> than auto-routing.  If we ever get to the point we are sitting around
> twiddling our thumbs, then we should work on an auto-router.
>
> On 3/5/2018 12:16 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
> > Actually the second point in that post is a gem (rerouting of tracks
> > when you move a component)  It is a feature of some super-high end
> > packages (Xpedition, Allegro I think) but missing from lots of paid
> > tools (Altium, Zuken, etc).
> >
> > It's on my list of things I want to add to KiCad at some point (if
> > someone else doesn't get to it first), but it's also one of the most
> > complex problems to solve on that list...
> >
> > -Jon
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 12:09 PM, Tomasz Wlostowski
> > > wrote:
> >
> > Ladies and gentlemen, there's a lot of work for us ahead!
> >
> > https://www.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/comments/
> 815fz2/what_eda_is_really_the_best_out_there_for_macos/
> >  815fz2/what_eda_is_really_the_best_out_there_for_macos/>
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Tom
> >
> > ___
> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> > 
> > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
> > 
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> > 
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> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [fun feature request] Create PCB from schematic with one click :)

[Wayne Stambaugh]

I was thinking one level of abstraction higher where I just input my
design requirements and it spits out a schematic, full simulation to
match the design requirements, and a completed board layout.  That would
make my job a *lot* easier. ;)

All kidding aside, I was told by a very highly skilled board designer
not to waste our time with auto-routers because no one actually uses
them except for the simplest designs with lots of free board space and
few or no routing restrictions.  This is someone who uses Altium in his
day job and has laid out far more boards than I have.  I'm guessing
auto-routers appeal to hobbyists rather than professionals.  I've never
seen an auto-router come any where close to how I would route a board so
I never use them.  There are far more useful features to add to KiCad
than auto-routing.  If we ever get to the point we are sitting around
twiddling our thumbs, then we should work on an auto-router.

On 3/5/2018 12:16 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
> Actually the second point in that post is a gem (rerouting of tracks
> when you move a component)  It is a feature of some super-high end
> packages (Xpedition, Allegro I think) but missing from lots of paid
> tools (Altium, Zuken, etc).
> 
> It's on my list of things I want to add to KiCad at some point (if
> someone else doesn't get to it first), but it's also one of the most
> complex problems to solve on that list...
> 
> -Jon
> 
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 12:09 PM, Tomasz Wlostowski
> > wrote:
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen, there's a lot of work for us ahead!
> 
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/comments/815fz2/what_eda_is_really_the_best_out_there_for_macos/
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [fun feature request] Create PCB from schematic with one click :)

[Seth Hillbrand]

Ha!

Sounds like a job for Alpha Zero to me.

-S

2018-03-05 9:09 GMT-08:00 Tomasz Wlostowski :

> Ladies and gentlemen, there's a lot of work for us ahead!
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/comments/
> 815fz2/what_eda_is_really_the_best_out_there_for_macos/
>
> Cheers,
> Tom
>
> ___
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] [fun feature request] Create PCB from schematic with one click :)

[Jon Evans]

Actually the second point in that post is a gem (rerouting of tracks when
you move a component)  It is a feature of some super-high end packages
(Xpedition, Allegro I think) but missing from lots of paid tools (Altium,
Zuken, etc).

It's on my list of things I want to add to KiCad at some point (if someone
else doesn't get to it first), but it's also one of the most complex
problems to solve on that list...

-Jon

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 12:09 PM, Tomasz Wlostowski <
tomasz.wlostow...@cern.ch> wrote:

> Ladies and gentlemen, there's a lot of work for us ahead!
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/comments/
> 815fz2/what_eda_is_really_the_best_out_there_for_macos/
>
> Cheers,
> Tom
>
> ___
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>
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[Kicad-developers] [fun feature request] Create PCB from schematic with one click :)

[Tomasz Wlostowski]

Ladies and gentlemen, there's a lot of work for us ahead!

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/comments/815fz2/what_eda_is_really_the_best_out_there_for_macos/

Cheers,
Tom

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