Re: [Kicad-developers] Fabrication Outputs and Plot

[Wayne Stambaugh]

Diego,

I merged your patch.  Thank you for your contribution to KiCad.

Cheers,

Wayne

On 2/25/2018 3:17 PM, Diego Herranz wrote:
> Thanks for your replies. I think there's a consensus that this needs
> improving and restructuring, but given your emails, it sounds like a big
> task :)
> 
> In the meantime, would you accept the attached patch to change the order
> in which "Fabrication Outputs" is listed in the menu?
> 
> Before:
> Fabrication Outputs
> Import
> Export
> 
> After:
> Import
> Export
> Fabrication Outputs
> 
> 
> I think that "Fabrication Outputs" is conceptually very similar to
> "Export" and it belongs next to it better than having "Import" in
> between them.
> 
> Thanks,
> Diego
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:01 PM, Wayne Stambaugh  > wrote:
> 
> I'm open to any solution that improves the current situation.  This
> solution seems reasonable as well.  I also just noticed that wx
> 3.1.1 was just released and it looks like there have been a lot of
> fixes the various device contexts so some of the work may have
> already been done for us.
> 
> On 02/24/2018 03:31 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
> 
> I thought the idea was to write a backend for GAL that could
> render onto a wxDC for printing?  It seems wise to use the
> wxWidgets printing API rather than bypassing it; so we just need
> to be able to render onto a DC (without using the old XOR tricks
> from the legacy drawing code)
> 
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Jeff Young    >> wrote:
> 
>     On the other hand, if we don’t then we have to keep carrying
> around
>     a boat-load of Legacy rendering code (because we use that
> for printing).
> 
>      > On 24 Feb 2018, at 20:16, Wayne Stambaugh
> 
>     >>
> wrote:
>      >
>      > There is no plan yet but it has been discussed.  The only
>     downside is that we will have to write our own print handling on
>     windows and I'm guessing macos.  That's one of the reasons
> no one
>     has signed up yet because it will be a large undertaking.
>      >
>      > On 02/24/2018 02:02 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
>      >> Yes I think that's the plan, just needs someone to sign
> up to
>     write it :)
>      >> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 14:00 Andrzej Wolski
>     
> >
>             wrote:
>      >>    Cairo have PDF, SVG and Postscript support. I was once
>     wondering if
>      >>    GAL/Cairo could be used for printing.
>      >>    Andrzej
>      >>    W dniu 2018-02-24 o 19:24, Jon Evans pisze:
>      >>>    Yeah, there (at least) three different dialogs that
> all present
>      >>>    similar things (i.e. a list of layers to include,
> settings,
>     etc):
>      >>>
>      >>>    Export->SVG
>      >>>    Print
>      >>>    Plot
>      >>>
>      >>>    The Print code for Export->SVG seems to just use the
> same SVG
>      >>>    plotter, so maybe it's just mostly GUI cleanup that
> is needed.
>      >>>
>      >>>    The main Print code does need an overhaul to use
> something other
>      >>>    than wxDC for graphics generation (and perhaps
> adding some more
>      >>>    features to PDF export)
>      >>>
>      >>>    -Jon
>      >>>
>      >>>    On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Jeff Young
> 
>     >
>      >>>    
>       >>>
>      >>>        Plot SVG and Export SVG are different.  The
> former goes
>      >>>        through the Plot code while the later goes
> through the Print
>      >>>        code.
>      >>>
>      >>>        Do we need both?  I haven’t a clue.
>      >>>
>      >>>        It would be nice to clean this stuff up, if
> there is in
>     fact a
>      >>>        clean way to present it.
>      >>>
>      >>>      

Re: [Kicad-developers] Fabrication Outputs and Plot

[Diego Herranz]

Gentle reminder.

Thanks,
Diego

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 12:16 AM, Wayne Stambaugh 
wrote:

> This looks fine to me.  Does anyone else have any objections to this
> change?
>
> On 02/25/2018 03:17 PM, Diego Herranz wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your replies. I think there's a consensus that this needs
>> improving and restructuring, but given your emails, it sounds like a big
>> task :)
>>
>> In the meantime, would you accept the attached patch to change the order
>> in which "Fabrication Outputs" is listed in the menu?
>>
>> Before:
>> Fabrication Outputs
>> Import
>> Export
>>
>> After:
>> Import
>> Export
>> Fabrication Outputs
>>
>>
>> I think that "Fabrication Outputs" is conceptually very similar to
>> "Export" and it belongs next to it better than having "Import" in between
>> them.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Diego
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:01 PM, Wayne Stambaugh > > wrote:
>>
>> I'm open to any solution that improves the current situation.  This
>> solution seems reasonable as well.  I also just noticed that wx
>> 3.1.1 was just released and it looks like there have been a lot of
>> fixes the various device contexts so some of the work may have
>> already been done for us.
>>
>> On 02/24/2018 03:31 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
>>
>> I thought the idea was to write a backend for GAL that could
>> render onto a wxDC for printing?  It seems wise to use the
>> wxWidgets printing API rather than bypassing it; so we just need
>> to be able to render onto a DC (without using the old XOR tricks
>> from the legacy drawing code)
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Jeff Young >  > >> wrote:
>>
>>  On the other hand, if we don’t then we have to keep
>> carrying around
>>  a boat-load of Legacy rendering code (because we use that
>> for printing).
>>
>>   > On 24 Feb 2018, at 20:16, Wayne Stambaugh
>> 
>>  >
>> >> wrote:
>>   >
>>   > There is no plan yet but it has been discussed.  The only
>>  downside is that we will have to write our own print
>> handling on
>>  windows and I'm guessing macos.  That's one of the reasons
>> no one
>>  has signed up yet because it will be a large undertaking.
>>   >
>>   > On 02/24/2018 02:02 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
>>   >> Yes I think that's the plan, just needs someone to sign
>> up to
>>  write it :)
>>   >> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 14:00 Andrzej Wolski
>>  
>> >
>>  >  > >  wrote:
>>   >>Cairo have PDF, SVG and Postscript support. I was once
>>  wondering if
>>   >>GAL/Cairo could be used for printing.
>>   >>Andrzej
>>   >>W dniu 2018-02-24 o 19:24, Jon Evans pisze:
>>   >>>Yeah, there (at least) three different dialogs that
>> all present
>>   >>>similar things (i.e. a list of layers to include,
>> settings,
>>  etc):
>>   >>>
>>   >>>Export->SVG
>>   >>>Print
>>   >>>Plot
>>   >>>
>>   >>>The Print code for Export->SVG seems to just use
>> the same SVG
>>   >>>plotter, so maybe it's just mostly GUI cleanup that
>> is needed.
>>   >>>
>>   >>>The main Print code does need an overhaul to use
>> something other
>>   >>>than wxDC for graphics generation (and perhaps
>> adding some more
>>   >>>features to PDF export)
>>   >>>
>>   >>>-Jon
>>   >>>
>>   >>>On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Jeff Young
>> 
>>  >
>>   >>>
>> >   >>>
>>   >>>Plot SVG and Export SVG are different.  The
>> former goes
>>   >>>through the Plot code while the later goes
>> through the Print
>>   >>>code.
>>   >>>
>>   

Re: [Kicad-developers] Fabrication Outputs and Plot

[Clemens Koller]

Hi!

On 2018-02-27 01:35, Andy Peters wrote:
>> There is no plan yet but it has been discussed.
> The only downside is that we will have to write our own print handling on 
> windows and I'm guessing macos.
> That's one of the reasons no one has signed up yet because it will be a large 
> undertaking.

It is possible to embed metadata into a PDF document with annotations to show 
i.e. detailed part information on a schematic on MouseOver.
This is propably more difficult to achieve when we just use the OS' brilliant 
printing subsystem to generate PDFs.

(Don't get me wrong: I do not favor complex annotations in PDFs as their 
support is severely limited in a lot of PDF readers.)

Regards,

Clemens


On 2018-02-27 01:35, Andy Peters wrote:
> On Feb 24, 2018, at 1:16 PM, Wayne Stambaugh  > wrote:
>>
>> There is no plan yet but it has been discussed.  The only downside is that 
>> we will have to write our own print handling on windows and I'm guessing 
>> macos.  That's one of the reasons no one has signed up yet because it will 
>> be a large undertaking.
> 
> PDF export is free on macOS (and has been since the very first Mac OS X 
> 10.0). If something brings up the system print dialog, there is a little 
> pulldown menu thingie in the lower-left-hand corner with PDF selected. See 
> image. It is the “printing workflows” selector. Printing means more than 
> “send to printer,” as you can “print” to a PDF or to PostScript, and then the 
> result can be saved to a file, e-mailed, messaged or otherwise shared. Click 
> on it, select “Save as PDF,” and then choose where to save it (along with 
> some other features).
> 
> I use this feature all the time. It’s brilliant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>
>> On 02/24/2018 02:02 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
>>> Yes I think that's the plan, just needs someone to sign up to write it :)
>>> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 14:00 Andrzej Wolski >>  > wrote:
>>>    Cairo have PDF, SVG and Postscript support. I was once wondering if
>>>    GAL/Cairo could be used for printing.
>>>    Andrzej
>>>    W dniu 2018-02-24 o 19:24, Jon Evans pisze:
    Yeah, there (at least) three different dialogs that all present
    similar things (i.e. a list of layers to include, settings, etc):

    Export->SVG
    Print
    Plot

    The Print code for Export->SVG seems to just use the same SVG
    plotter, so maybe it's just mostly GUI cleanup that is needed.

    The main Print code does need an overhaul to use something other
    than wxDC for graphics generation (and perhaps adding some more
    features to PDF export)

    -Jon

    On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Jeff Young 
    > wrote:

    Plot SVG and Export SVG are different.  The former goes
    through the Plot code while the later goes through the Print
    code.

    Do we need both?  I haven’t a clue.

    It would be nice to clean this stuff up, if there is in fact a
    clean way to present it.

    Cheers,
    Jeff.


>    On 24 Feb 2018, at 14:54, Jon Evans  
>    > wrote:
>
>    I agree with this! It has always tripped me up when I switch
>    back and forth between kicad and other EDA tools.
>
>    On Feb 24, 2018 9:31 AM, "Diego Herranz"
>     
>    > wrote:
>
>    Hi,
>
>    Now that so much work is happening on re-structuring
>    menus, I've remembered something I have always found
>    weird on pcbnew.
>
>    "Plot", from wihch you can obtain Gerbers is not inside
>    "Fabrication Outputs", but on its own.
>    I find it weird to have the drill option inside
>    "Fabrication Outputs" but not the Gerbers (they are
>    normally needed together and in fact, you can go to
>    "Drill" from "Plot").
>
>    If "Plot" was Gerber only, I would recommend moving it
>    inside "Fabrication Outputs" straight away but because it
>    also exports other formats, it's not so straightforward.
>
>    I think ideally we would have:
>
>    - Fabrication outputs
>  - Gerber...
>  - Drill
>  - ...
>    - Export
>  - STEP
>  - PDF...
>  - Postcript...
>  - DXF...
>  - ...
>
>    And I have 

Re: [Kicad-developers] Fabrication Outputs and Plot

[Wayne Stambaugh]

This looks fine to me.  Does anyone else have any objections to this change?

On 02/25/2018 03:17 PM, Diego Herranz wrote:
Thanks for your replies. I think there's a consensus that this needs 
improving and restructuring, but given your emails, it sounds like a big 
task :)


In the meantime, would you accept the attached patch to change the order 
in which "Fabrication Outputs" is listed in the menu?


Before:
Fabrication Outputs
Import
Export

After:
Import
Export
Fabrication Outputs


I think that "Fabrication Outputs" is conceptually very similar to 
"Export" and it belongs next to it better than having "Import" in 
between them.


Thanks,
Diego



On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:01 PM, Wayne Stambaugh > wrote:


I'm open to any solution that improves the current situation.  This
solution seems reasonable as well.  I also just noticed that wx
3.1.1 was just released and it looks like there have been a lot of
fixes the various device contexts so some of the work may have
already been done for us.

On 02/24/2018 03:31 PM, Jon Evans wrote:

I thought the idea was to write a backend for GAL that could
render onto a wxDC for printing?  It seems wise to use the
wxWidgets printing API rather than bypassing it; so we just need
to be able to render onto a DC (without using the old XOR tricks
from the legacy drawing code)

On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Jeff Young  >> wrote:

     On the other hand, if we don’t then we have to keep
carrying around
     a boat-load of Legacy rendering code (because we use that
for printing).

      > On 24 Feb 2018, at 20:16, Wayne Stambaugh

     >> wrote:
      >
      > There is no plan yet but it has been discussed.  The only
     downside is that we will have to write our own print
handling on
     windows and I'm guessing macos.  That's one of the reasons
no one
     has signed up yet because it will be a large undertaking.
      >
      > On 02/24/2018 02:02 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
      >> Yes I think that's the plan, just needs someone to sign
up to
     write it :)
      >> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 14:00 Andrzej Wolski
     
>
      >    Cairo have PDF, SVG and Postscript support. I was once
     wondering if
      >>    GAL/Cairo could be used for printing.
      >>    Andrzej
      >>    W dniu 2018-02-24 o 19:24, Jon Evans pisze:
      >>>    Yeah, there (at least) three different dialogs that
all present
      >>>    similar things (i.e. a list of layers to include,
settings,
     etc):
      >>>
      >>>    Export->SVG
      >>>    Print
      >>>    Plot
      >>>
      >>>    The Print code for Export->SVG seems to just use
the same SVG
      >>>    plotter, so maybe it's just mostly GUI cleanup that
is needed.
      >>>
      >>>    The main Print code does need an overhaul to use
something other
      >>>    than wxDC for graphics generation (and perhaps
adding some more
      >>>    features to PDF export)
      >>>
      >>>    -Jon
      >>>
      >>>    On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Jeff Young

     >
      >>>    
>>
      >>>        Plot SVG and Export SVG are different.  The
former goes
      >>>        through the Plot code while the later goes
through the Print
      >>>        code.
      >>>
      >>>        Do we need both?  I haven’t a clue.
      >>>
      >>>        It would be nice to clean this stuff up, if
there is in
     fact a
      >>>        clean way to present it.
      >>>
      >>>        Cheers,
      >>>        Jeff.
      >>>
      >>>
              On 24 Feb 2018, at 14:54, Jon Evans

Re: [Kicad-developers] Fabrication Outputs and Plot

[Diego Herranz]

Thanks for your replies. I think there's a consensus that this needs
improving and restructuring, but given your emails, it sounds like a big
task :)

In the meantime, would you accept the attached patch to change the order in
which "Fabrication Outputs" is listed in the menu?

Before:
Fabrication Outputs
Import
Export

After:
Import
Export
Fabrication Outputs


I think that "Fabrication Outputs" is conceptually very similar to "Export"
and it belongs next to it better than having "Import" in between them.

Thanks,
Diego



On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:01 PM, Wayne Stambaugh 
wrote:

> I'm open to any solution that improves the current situation.  This
> solution seems reasonable as well.  I also just noticed that wx 3.1.1 was
> just released and it looks like there have been a lot of fixes the various
> device contexts so some of the work may have already been done for us.
>
> On 02/24/2018 03:31 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
>
>> I thought the idea was to write a backend for GAL that could render onto
>> a wxDC for printing?  It seems wise to use the wxWidgets printing API
>> rather than bypassing it; so we just need to be able to render onto a DC
>> (without using the old XOR tricks from the legacy drawing code)
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Jeff Young  j...@rokeby.ie>> wrote:
>>
>> On the other hand, if we don’t then we have to keep carrying around
>> a boat-load of Legacy rendering code (because we use that for
>> printing).
>>
>>  > On 24 Feb 2018, at 20:16, Wayne Stambaugh > > wrote:
>>  >
>>  > There is no plan yet but it has been discussed.  The only
>> downside is that we will have to write our own print handling on
>> windows and I'm guessing macos.  That's one of the reasons no one
>> has signed up yet because it will be a large undertaking.
>>  >
>>  > On 02/24/2018 02:02 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
>>  >> Yes I think that's the plan, just needs someone to sign up to
>> write it :)
>>  >> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 14:00 Andrzej Wolski
>> 
>> >>
>> wrote:
>>  >>Cairo have PDF, SVG and Postscript support. I was once
>> wondering if
>>  >>GAL/Cairo could be used for printing.
>>  >>Andrzej
>>  >>W dniu 2018-02-24 o 19:24, Jon Evans pisze:
>>  >>>Yeah, there (at least) three different dialogs that all
>> present
>>  >>>similar things (i.e. a list of layers to include, settings,
>> etc):
>>  >>>
>>  >>>Export->SVG
>>  >>>Print
>>  >>>Plot
>>  >>>
>>  >>>The Print code for Export->SVG seems to just use the same SVG
>>  >>>plotter, so maybe it's just mostly GUI cleanup that is needed.
>>  >>>
>>  >>>The main Print code does need an overhaul to use something
>> other
>>  >>>than wxDC for graphics generation (and perhaps adding some
>> more
>>  >>>features to PDF export)
>>  >>>
>>  >>>-Jon
>>  >>>
>>  >>>On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Jeff Young > 
>>  >>>>> wrote:
>>  >>>
>>  >>>Plot SVG and Export SVG are different.  The former goes
>>  >>>through the Plot code while the later goes through the
>> Print
>>  >>>code.
>>  >>>
>>  >>>Do we need both?  I haven’t a clue.
>>  >>>
>>  >>>It would be nice to clean this stuff up, if there is in
>> fact a
>>  >>>clean way to present it.
>>  >>>
>>  >>>Cheers,
>>  >>>Jeff.
>>  >>>
>>  >>>
>>  On 24 Feb 2018, at 14:54, Jon Evans > 
>>  >>
>> wrote:
>>  
>>  I agree with this! It has always tripped me up when I
>> switch
>>  back and forth between kicad and other EDA tools.
>>  
>>  On Feb 24, 2018 9:31 AM, "Diego Herranz"
>>  > 
>>  >
>> >> wrote:
>>  
>>  Hi,
>>  
>>  Now that so much work is happening on re-structuring
>>  menus, I've remembered something I have always found
>>  weird on pcbnew.
>>  
>>  "Plot", from wihch you can obtain Gerbers is not
>> inside
>>  "Fabrication Outputs", but on its own.
>>  I find it weird to have the drill option inside
>>   

Re: [Kicad-developers] Fabrication Outputs and Plot

[Wayne Stambaugh]

I'm open to any solution that improves the current situation.  This 
solution seems reasonable as well.  I also just noticed that wx 3.1.1 
was just released and it looks like there have been a lot of fixes the 
various device contexts so some of the work may have already been done 
for us.


On 02/24/2018 03:31 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
I thought the idea was to write a backend for GAL that could render onto 
a wxDC for printing?  It seems wise to use the wxWidgets printing API 
rather than bypassing it; so we just need to be able to render onto a DC 
(without using the old XOR tricks from the legacy drawing code)


On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Jeff Young > wrote:


On the other hand, if we don’t then we have to keep carrying around
a boat-load of Legacy rendering code (because we use that for printing).

 > On 24 Feb 2018, at 20:16, Wayne Stambaugh > wrote:
 >
 > There is no plan yet but it has been discussed.  The only
downside is that we will have to write our own print handling on
windows and I'm guessing macos.  That's one of the reasons no one
has signed up yet because it will be a large undertaking.
 >
 > On 02/24/2018 02:02 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
 >> Yes I think that's the plan, just needs someone to sign up to
write it :)
 >> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 14:00 Andrzej Wolski

>>
wrote:
 >>    Cairo have PDF, SVG and Postscript support. I was once
wondering if
 >>    GAL/Cairo could be used for printing.
 >>    Andrzej
 >>    W dniu 2018-02-24 o 19:24, Jon Evans pisze:
 >>>    Yeah, there (at least) three different dialogs that all present
 >>>    similar things (i.e. a list of layers to include, settings,
etc):
 >>>
 >>>    Export->SVG
 >>>    Print
 >>>    Plot
 >>>
 >>>    The Print code for Export->SVG seems to just use the same SVG
 >>>    plotter, so maybe it's just mostly GUI cleanup that is needed.
 >>>
 >>>    The main Print code does need an overhaul to use something other
 >>>    than wxDC for graphics generation (and perhaps adding some more
 >>>    features to PDF export)
 >>>
 >>>    -Jon
 >>>
 >>>    On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Jeff Young 
 >>>    >> wrote:
 >>>
 >>>        Plot SVG and Export SVG are different.  The former goes
 >>>        through the Plot code while the later goes through the Print
 >>>        code.
 >>>
 >>>        Do we need both?  I haven’t a clue.
 >>>
 >>>        It would be nice to clean this stuff up, if there is in
fact a
 >>>        clean way to present it.
 >>>
 >>>        Cheers,
 >>>        Jeff.
 >>>
 >>>
         On 24 Feb 2018, at 14:54, Jon Evans 
         >>
wrote:
 
         I agree with this! It has always tripped me up when I
switch
         back and forth between kicad and other EDA tools.
 
         On Feb 24, 2018 9:31 AM, "Diego Herranz"
         
         >> wrote:
 
             Hi,
 
             Now that so much work is happening on re-structuring
             menus, I've remembered something I have always found
             weird on pcbnew.
 
             "Plot", from wihch you can obtain Gerbers is not inside
             "Fabrication Outputs", but on its own.
             I find it weird to have the drill option inside
             "Fabrication Outputs" but not the Gerbers (they are
             normally needed together and in fact, you can go to
             "Drill" from "Plot").
 
             If "Plot" was Gerber only, I would recommend moving it
             inside "Fabrication Outputs" straight away but
because it
             also exports other formats, it's not so
straightforward.
 
             I think ideally we would have:
 
             - Fabrication outputs
               - Gerber...
               - Drill
               - ...
             - Export
               - STEP
               - PDF...
               - Postcript...
               - DXF...
               - ...
 
             And I have just noticed SVG can be 

Re: [Kicad-developers] Fabrication Outputs and Plot

[Jon Evans]

I thought the idea was to write a backend for GAL that could render onto a
wxDC for printing?  It seems wise to use the wxWidgets printing API rather
than bypassing it; so we just need to be able to render onto a DC (without
using the old XOR tricks from the legacy drawing code)

On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Jeff Young  wrote:

> On the other hand, if we don’t then we have to keep carrying around a
> boat-load of Legacy rendering code (because we use that for printing).
>
> > On 24 Feb 2018, at 20:16, Wayne Stambaugh  wrote:
> >
> > There is no plan yet but it has been discussed.  The only downside is
> that we will have to write our own print handling on windows and I'm
> guessing macos.  That's one of the reasons no one has signed up yet because
> it will be a large undertaking.
> >
> > On 02/24/2018 02:02 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
> >> Yes I think that's the plan, just needs someone to sign up to write it
> :)
> >> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 14:00 Andrzej Wolski  > wrote:
> >>Cairo have PDF, SVG and Postscript support. I was once wondering if
> >>GAL/Cairo could be used for printing.
> >>Andrzej
> >>W dniu 2018-02-24 o 19:24, Jon Evans pisze:
> >>>Yeah, there (at least) three different dialogs that all present
> >>>similar things (i.e. a list of layers to include, settings, etc):
> >>>
> >>>Export->SVG
> >>>Print
> >>>Plot
> >>>
> >>>The Print code for Export->SVG seems to just use the same SVG
> >>>plotter, so maybe it's just mostly GUI cleanup that is needed.
> >>>
> >>>The main Print code does need an overhaul to use something other
> >>>than wxDC for graphics generation (and perhaps adding some more
> >>>features to PDF export)
> >>>
> >>>-Jon
> >>>
> >>>On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Jeff Young  >>>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>Plot SVG and Export SVG are different.  The former goes
> >>>through the Plot code while the later goes through the Print
> >>>code.
> >>>
> >>>Do we need both?  I haven’t a clue.
> >>>
> >>>It would be nice to clean this stuff up, if there is in fact a
> >>>clean way to present it.
> >>>
> >>>Cheers,
> >>>Jeff.
> >>>
> >>>
> On 24 Feb 2018, at 14:54, Jon Evans  > wrote:
> 
> I agree with this! It has always tripped me up when I switch
> back and forth between kicad and other EDA tools.
> 
> On Feb 24, 2018 9:31 AM, "Diego Herranz"
>  > wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Now that so much work is happening on re-structuring
> menus, I've remembered something I have always found
> weird on pcbnew.
> 
> "Plot", from wihch you can obtain Gerbers is not inside
> "Fabrication Outputs", but on its own.
> I find it weird to have the drill option inside
> "Fabrication Outputs" but not the Gerbers (they are
> normally needed together and in fact, you can go to
> "Drill" from "Plot").
> 
> If "Plot" was Gerber only, I would recommend moving it
> inside "Fabrication Outputs" straight away but because it
> also exports other formats, it's not so straightforward.
> 
> I think ideally we would have:
> 
> - Fabrication outputs
>   - Gerber...
>   - Drill
>   - ...
> - Export
>   - STEP
>   - PDF...
>   - Postcript...
>   - DXF...
>   - ...
> 
> And I have just noticed SVG can be obtained from "Plot"
> or the "Export" submenu. Is it the same?
> 
> What do you guys think? I'm not necessarily suggesting
> looking into this before KiCad 5, just wanted to have
> your view.
> 
> Thanks,
> Diego
> 
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Fabrication Outputs and Plot

[Jeff Young]

On the other hand, if we don’t then we have to keep carrying around a boat-load 
of Legacy rendering code (because we use that for printing).

> On 24 Feb 2018, at 20:16, Wayne Stambaugh  wrote:
> 
> There is no plan yet but it has been discussed.  The only downside is that we 
> will have to write our own print handling on windows and I'm guessing macos.  
> That's one of the reasons no one has signed up yet because it will be a large 
> undertaking.
> 
> On 02/24/2018 02:02 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
>> Yes I think that's the plan, just needs someone to sign up to write it :)
>> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 14:00 Andrzej Wolski > > wrote:
>>Cairo have PDF, SVG and Postscript support. I was once wondering if
>>GAL/Cairo could be used for printing.
>>Andrzej
>>W dniu 2018-02-24 o 19:24, Jon Evans pisze:
>>>Yeah, there (at least) three different dialogs that all present
>>>similar things (i.e. a list of layers to include, settings, etc):
>>> 
>>>Export->SVG
>>>Print
>>>Plot
>>> 
>>>The Print code for Export->SVG seems to just use the same SVG
>>>plotter, so maybe it's just mostly GUI cleanup that is needed.
>>> 
>>>The main Print code does need an overhaul to use something other
>>>than wxDC for graphics generation (and perhaps adding some more
>>>features to PDF export)
>>> 
>>>-Jon
>>> 
>>>On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Jeff Young >>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>Plot SVG and Export SVG are different.  The former goes
>>>through the Plot code while the later goes through the Print
>>>code.
>>> 
>>>Do we need both?  I haven’t a clue.
>>> 
>>>It would be nice to clean this stuff up, if there is in fact a
>>>clean way to present it.
>>> 
>>>Cheers,
>>>Jeff.
>>> 
>>> 
On 24 Feb 2018, at 14:54, Jon Evans > wrote:
 
I agree with this! It has always tripped me up when I switch
back and forth between kicad and other EDA tools.
 
On Feb 24, 2018 9:31 AM, "Diego Herranz"
> wrote:
 
Hi,
 
Now that so much work is happening on re-structuring
menus, I've remembered something I have always found
weird on pcbnew.
 
"Plot", from wihch you can obtain Gerbers is not inside
"Fabrication Outputs", but on its own.
I find it weird to have the drill option inside
"Fabrication Outputs" but not the Gerbers (they are
normally needed together and in fact, you can go to
"Drill" from "Plot").
 
If "Plot" was Gerber only, I would recommend moving it
inside "Fabrication Outputs" straight away but because it
also exports other formats, it's not so straightforward.
 
I think ideally we would have:
 
- Fabrication outputs
  - Gerber...
  - Drill
  - ...
- Export
  - STEP
  - PDF...
  - Postcript...
  - DXF...
  - ...
 
And I have just noticed SVG can be obtained from "Plot"
or the "Export" submenu. Is it the same?
 
What do you guys think? I'm not necessarily suggesting
looking into this before KiCad 5, just wanted to have
your view.
 
Thanks,
Diego
 
 
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>>> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Fabrication Outputs and Plot

[Wayne Stambaugh]

There is no plan yet but it has been discussed.  The only downside is 
that we will have to write our own print handling on windows and I'm 
guessing macos.  That's one of the reasons no one has signed up yet 
because it will be a large undertaking.


On 02/24/2018 02:02 PM, Jon Evans wrote:

Yes I think that's the plan, just needs someone to sign up to write it :)

On Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 14:00 Andrzej Wolski > wrote:


Cairo have PDF, SVG and Postscript support. I was once wondering if
GAL/Cairo could be used for printing.

Andrzej

W dniu 2018-02-24 o 19:24, Jon Evans pisze:

Yeah, there (at least) three different dialogs that all present
similar things (i.e. a list of layers to include, settings, etc):

Export->SVG
Print
Plot

The Print code for Export->SVG seems to just use the same SVG
plotter, so maybe it's just mostly GUI cleanup that is needed.

The main Print code does need an overhaul to use something other
than wxDC for graphics generation (and perhaps adding some more
features to PDF export)

-Jon

On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Jeff Young > wrote:

Plot SVG and Export SVG are different.  The former goes
through the Plot code while the later goes through the Print
code.

Do we need both?  I haven’t a clue.

It would be nice to clean this stuff up, if there is in fact a
clean way to present it.

Cheers,
Jeff.



On 24 Feb 2018, at 14:54, Jon Evans > wrote:

I agree with this! It has always tripped me up when I switch
back and forth between kicad and other EDA tools.

On Feb 24, 2018 9:31 AM, "Diego Herranz"
> wrote:

Hi,

Now that so much work is happening on re-structuring
menus, I've remembered something I have always found
weird on pcbnew.

"Plot", from wihch you can obtain Gerbers is not inside
"Fabrication Outputs", but on its own.
I find it weird to have the drill option inside
"Fabrication Outputs" but not the Gerbers (they are
normally needed together and in fact, you can go to
"Drill" from "Plot").

If "Plot" was Gerber only, I would recommend moving it
inside "Fabrication Outputs" straight away but because it
also exports other formats, it's not so straightforward.

I think ideally we would have:

- Fabrication outputs
  - Gerber...
  - Drill
  - ...
- Export
  - STEP
  - PDF...
  - Postcript...
  - DXF...
  - ...

And I have just noticed SVG can be obtained from "Plot"
or the "Export" submenu. Is it the same?

What do you guys think? I'm not necessarily suggesting
looking into this before KiCad 5, just wanted to have
your view.

Thanks,
Diego


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Re: [Kicad-developers] Fabrication Outputs and Plot

[Jon Evans]

Yes I think that's the plan, just needs someone to sign up to write it :)

On Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 14:00 Andrzej Wolski  wrote:

> Cairo have PDF, SVG and Postscript support. I was once wondering if
> GAL/Cairo could be used for printing.
>
> Andrzej
>
> W dniu 2018-02-24 o 19:24, Jon Evans pisze:
>
> Yeah, there (at least) three different dialogs that all present similar
> things (i.e. a list of layers to include, settings, etc):
>
> Export->SVG
> Print
> Plot
>
> The Print code for Export->SVG seems to just use the same SVG plotter, so
> maybe it's just mostly GUI cleanup that is needed.
>
> The main Print code does need an overhaul to use something other than wxDC
> for graphics generation (and perhaps adding some more features to PDF
> export)
>
> -Jon
>
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Jeff Young  wrote:
>
>> Plot SVG and Export SVG are different.  The former goes through the Plot
>> code while the later goes through the Print code.
>>
>> Do we need both?  I haven’t a clue.
>>
>> It would be nice to clean this stuff up, if there is in fact a clean way
>> to present it.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jeff.
>>
>>
>> On 24 Feb 2018, at 14:54, Jon Evans  wrote:
>>
>> I agree with this! It has always tripped me up when I switch back and
>> forth between kicad and other EDA tools.
>>
>> On Feb 24, 2018 9:31 AM, "Diego Herranz" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Now that so much work is happening on re-structuring menus, I've
>>> remembered something I have always found weird on pcbnew.
>>>
>>> "Plot", from wihch you can obtain Gerbers is not inside "Fabrication
>>> Outputs", but on its own.
>>> I find it weird to have the drill option inside "Fabrication Outputs"
>>> but not the Gerbers (they are normally needed together and in fact, you can
>>> go to "Drill" from "Plot").
>>>
>>> If "Plot" was Gerber only, I would recommend moving it inside "Fabrication
>>> Outputs" straight away but because it also exports other formats, it's not
>>> so straightforward.
>>>
>>> I think ideally we would have:
>>>
>>> - Fabrication outputs
>>> - Gerber...
>>> - Drill
>>> - ...
>>> - Export
>>> - STEP
>>> - PDF...
>>> - Postcript...
>>> - DXF...
>>> - ...
>>>
>>> And I have just noticed SVG can be obtained from "Plot" or the "Export"
>>> submenu. Is it the same?
>>>
>>> What do you guys think? I'm not necessarily suggesting looking into this
>>> before KiCad 5, just wanted to have your view.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Diego
>>>
>>>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Fabrication Outputs and Plot

[Andrzej Wolski]

Cairo have PDF, SVG and Postscript support. I was once wondering if 
GAL/Cairo could be used for printing.


Andrzej

W dniu 2018-02-24 o 19:24, Jon Evans pisze:
Yeah, there (at least) three different dialogs that all present 
similar things (i.e. a list of layers to include, settings, etc):


Export->SVG
Print
Plot

The Print code for Export->SVG seems to just use the same SVG plotter, 
so maybe it's just mostly GUI cleanup that is needed.


The main Print code does need an overhaul to use something other than 
wxDC for graphics generation (and perhaps adding some more features to 
PDF export)


-Jon

On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Jeff Young > wrote:


Plot SVG and Export SVG are different.  The former goes through
the Plot code while the later goes through the Print code.

Do we need both?  I haven’t a clue.

It would be nice to clean this stuff up, if there is in fact a
clean way to present it.

Cheers,
Jeff.



On 24 Feb 2018, at 14:54, Jon Evans > wrote:

I agree with this! It has always tripped me up when I switch back
and forth between kicad and other EDA tools.

On Feb 24, 2018 9:31 AM, "Diego Herranz"
> wrote:

Hi,

Now that so much work is happening on re-structuring menus,
I've remembered something I have always found weird on pcbnew.

"Plot", from wihch you can obtain Gerbers is not inside
"Fabrication Outputs", but on its own.
I find it weird to have the drill option inside "Fabrication
Outputs" but not the Gerbers (they are normally needed
together and in fact, you can go to "Drill" from "Plot").

If "Plot" was Gerber only, I would recommend moving it inside
"Fabrication Outputs" straight away but because it also
exports other formats, it's not so straightforward.

I think ideally we would have:

- Fabrication outputs
  - Gerber...
  - Drill
  - ...
- Export
  - STEP
  - PDF...
  - Postcript...
  - DXF...
  - ...

And I have just noticed SVG can be obtained from "Plot" or
the "Export" submenu. Is it the same?

What do you guys think? I'm not necessarily suggesting
looking into this before KiCad 5, just wanted to have your view.

Thanks,
Diego


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Re: [Kicad-developers] Fabrication Outputs and Plot

[Jon Evans]

Yeah, there (at least) three different dialogs that all present similar
things (i.e. a list of layers to include, settings, etc):

Export->SVG
Print
Plot

The Print code for Export->SVG seems to just use the same SVG plotter, so
maybe it's just mostly GUI cleanup that is needed.

The main Print code does need an overhaul to use something other than wxDC
for graphics generation (and perhaps adding some more features to PDF
export)

-Jon

On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Jeff Young  wrote:

> Plot SVG and Export SVG are different.  The former goes through the Plot
> code while the later goes through the Print code.
>
> Do we need both?  I haven’t a clue.
>
> It would be nice to clean this stuff up, if there is in fact a clean way
> to present it.
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff.
>
>
> On 24 Feb 2018, at 14:54, Jon Evans  wrote:
>
> I agree with this! It has always tripped me up when I switch back and
> forth between kicad and other EDA tools.
>
> On Feb 24, 2018 9:31 AM, "Diego Herranz" 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Now that so much work is happening on re-structuring menus, I've
>> remembered something I have always found weird on pcbnew.
>>
>> "Plot", from wihch you can obtain Gerbers is not inside "Fabrication
>> Outputs", but on its own.
>> I find it weird to have the drill option inside "Fabrication Outputs" but
>> not the Gerbers (they are normally needed together and in fact, you can go
>> to "Drill" from "Plot").
>>
>> If "Plot" was Gerber only, I would recommend moving it inside "Fabrication
>> Outputs" straight away but because it also exports other formats, it's not
>> so straightforward.
>>
>> I think ideally we would have:
>>
>> - Fabrication outputs
>> - Gerber...
>> - Drill
>> - ...
>> - Export
>> - STEP
>> - PDF...
>> - Postcript...
>> - DXF...
>> - ...
>>
>> And I have just noticed SVG can be obtained from "Plot" or the "Export"
>> submenu. Is it the same?
>>
>> What do you guys think? I'm not necessarily suggesting looking into this
>> before KiCad 5, just wanted to have your view.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Diego
>>
>>
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Fabrication Outputs and Plot

[Jeff Young]

Plot SVG and Export SVG are different.  The former goes through the Plot code 
while the later goes through the Print code.

Do we need both?  I haven’t a clue.  

It would be nice to clean this stuff up, if there is in fact a clean way to 
present it.

Cheers,
Jeff.


> On 24 Feb 2018, at 14:54, Jon Evans  wrote:
> 
> I agree with this! It has always tripped me up when I switch back and forth 
> between kicad and other EDA tools. 
> 
> On Feb 24, 2018 9:31 AM, "Diego Herranz"  > wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Now that so much work is happening on re-structuring menus, I've remembered 
> something I have always found weird on pcbnew.
> 
> "Plot", from wihch you can obtain Gerbers is not inside "Fabrication 
> Outputs", but on its own.
> I find it weird to have the drill option inside "Fabrication Outputs" but not 
> the Gerbers (they are normally needed together and in fact, you can go to 
> "Drill" from "Plot").
> 
> If "Plot" was Gerber only, I would recommend moving it inside "Fabrication 
> Outputs" straight away but because it also exports other formats, it's not so 
> straightforward.
> 
> I think ideally we would have:
> 
> - Fabrication outputs
> - Gerber...
> - Drill
> - ...
> - Export
> - STEP
> - PDF...
> - Postcript...
> - DXF...
> - ...
> 
> And I have just noticed SVG can be obtained from "Plot" or the "Export" 
> submenu. Is it the same?
> 
> What do you guys think? I'm not necessarily suggesting looking into this 
> before KiCad 5, just wanted to have your view.
> 
> Thanks,
> Diego
> 
> 
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Re: [Kicad-developers] Fabrication Outputs and Plot

[Jon Evans]

I agree with this! It has always tripped me up when I switch back and forth
between kicad and other EDA tools.

On Feb 24, 2018 9:31 AM, "Diego Herranz" 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Now that so much work is happening on re-structuring menus, I've
> remembered something I have always found weird on pcbnew.
>
> "Plot", from wihch you can obtain Gerbers is not inside "Fabrication
> Outputs", but on its own.
> I find it weird to have the drill option inside "Fabrication Outputs" but
> not the Gerbers (they are normally needed together and in fact, you can go
> to "Drill" from "Plot").
>
> If "Plot" was Gerber only, I would recommend moving it inside "Fabrication
> Outputs" straight away but because it also exports other formats, it's not
> so straightforward.
>
> I think ideally we would have:
>
> - Fabrication outputs
> - Gerber...
> - Drill
> - ...
> - Export
> - STEP
> - PDF...
> - Postcript...
> - DXF...
> - ...
>
> And I have just noticed SVG can be obtained from "Plot" or the "Export"
> submenu. Is it the same?
>
> What do you guys think? I'm not necessarily suggesting looking into this
> before KiCad 5, just wanted to have your view.
>
> Thanks,
> Diego
>
>
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[Kicad-developers] Fabrication Outputs and Plot

[Diego Herranz]

Hi,

Now that so much work is happening on re-structuring menus, I've remembered
something I have always found weird on pcbnew.

"Plot", from wihch you can obtain Gerbers is not inside "Fabrication
Outputs", but on its own.
I find it weird to have the drill option inside "Fabrication Outputs" but
not the Gerbers (they are normally needed together and in fact, you can go
to "Drill" from "Plot").

If "Plot" was Gerber only, I would recommend moving it inside "Fabrication
Outputs" straight away but because it also exports other formats, it's not
so straightforward.

I think ideally we would have:

- Fabrication outputs
- Gerber...
- Drill
- ...
- Export
- STEP
- PDF...
- Postcript...
- DXF...
- ...

And I have just noticed SVG can be obtained from "Plot" or the "Export"
submenu. Is it the same?

What do you guys think? I'm not necessarily suggesting looking into this
before KiCad 5, just wanted to have your view.

Thanks,
Diego
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