KR> KR2S LSA
It's one thing to make a KR meet the LSA weight and performance specs. As I understand it, it's quite another to make it an actual LSA since that requires the manufacturer to certify (and demonstrate I believe) that it meets certain engineering standards - usually ASTM. Is this thread about the former or the latter? If the former, why would you want to limit the performance? Cheers, Tony
KR> KR2S LSA
On 12/16/2013 6:57 PM, Lawrence Bell wrote: > If you claim it meets LSA requirements you can certify it LSA. Technically speaking you cannot "certify" it as an LSA. You can, however, build it as an EAB (Experimental Amateur Built) that meets LSA specs, and fly it as a Sport Pilot. To literally certify an airplane as an actual LSA, you need to go through the ATSM Consensus Standards process, which makes no sense for any of us to do unless you are going to start manufacturing aircraft to sell. -Dj -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87 Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
KR> KR2S LSA
I hate to jump in on this because it has been discussed at length in the past. I just went thru this with another party so I would be able to understand the significance of this being an EAB certified aircraft that could be flown under the LSA rules. As I understand it, you can build an aircraft and demonstrate that it meets the LSA requirements as previously stated. How you fly it is your business. Let's say that you set the max gross weight at 1400 # and then get it EAB certified as that. You can never change that. However, if you certify the aircraft at the Max gross weight of an aircraft the meets the LSA requirements, then it can be flown LSA as long as it meets the other requirements. And if you are flying it as LSA, at over the max weight, you have a problem. You do not certify the aircraft as an LSA aircraft, you certify it as Experimental Amateur Built ( EAB ), and it happens to meet the LSA requirements. The only way I could ever think that the KR could meet those requirements would be that it was very light and had a high lift wing. The Diehl wing might do it, but it might not. What if you build your plane planning on and depending on being able to fly it under the LSA rules, and then it is not capable of performance under the Rules. Watcha gonna do? My personal opinion is that if you need LSA, build a plane that has been proven to be able to meet those requirements. See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics? Peoples Choice at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il ? MVN Best KR at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il ? MVN Best Interior at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il ? MVN Best Paint at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il ? MVN Best Firwwall Forward at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il ? MVN Daniel R. Heath -?Lexington, SC
KR> KR2S LSA
Just a slight correction to the numbers. The LSA speed and weight numbers are: Maximum gross takeoff weight?1,320 lbs, or 1,430 lbs for seaplanes. Maximum stall speed?51 mph (45 knots) CAS Maximum speed in level flight with maximum continuous power (Vh)?138 mph (120 knots) CAS There are other restrictions such as fixed pitch fixed gear (for land planes), etc., too. Ken Jones KHAO On Dec 16, 2013, at 4:39 PM, Lawrence Bell wrote: > William, the LSA requirements have to be met when you register. Most KR > builders want performance which will not be LSA. If you look at the > performance chart of KR-2's some meet the requirement but most don't. Flaps > do not help because the stall requirement is without flaps, as in what if > they don't work. The max speed is 152 knots and stall is under 50 without > augmentation. I would assume the right prop would limit your speed but you > need low weight and high wing area to get stall speed. >Larry Bell > >
KR> KR2S LSA
>The max speed is 152 knots and stall is under 50 without >augmentation. > Larry Bell > That seems a bit high. I recall it being more like 120 knots (138 mph) and 48 knots (52 mph) on the low end. Larry Flesner
KR> KR2S LSA
Tony, the manufacturer is you. The KR-2 is not a kit and does not have kit certification. Each build is different and stands on its own when you certify it. If you claim it meets LSA requirements you can certify it LSA. The plans call for a retract gear making it ineligible but most of us have fixed gear. As I mentioned to William, if you follow a build that resulted in stats that meet LSA as indicated on the KR-2 performance chart I think you could be comfortable claiming it will meet the specs. After you certify it regular you can't change to LSA. Larry Bell On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Tony King wrote: > It's one thing to make a KR meet the LSA weight and performance specs. As > I understand it, it's quite another to make it an actual LSA since that > requires the manufacturer to certify (and demonstrate I believe) that it > meets certain engineering standards - usually ASTM. > > Is this thread about the former or the latter? If the former, why would > you want to limit the performance? > > Cheers, > > Tony > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options >
KR> KR2S LSA
You're absolutely right, Ken. My bad for taking the figures out of my head. Larry On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:30 PM, Kenneth B. Jones wrote: > Just a slight correction to the numbers. The LSA speed and weight numbers > are: > Maximum gross takeoff weight?1,320 lbs, or 1,430 lbs for seaplanes. > Maximum stall speed?51 mph (45 knots) CAS > Maximum speed in level flight with maximum continuous power (Vh)?138 mph > (120 knots) CAS > There are other restrictions such as fixed pitch fixed gear (for land > planes), etc., too. > > Ken Jones > KHAO > > > On Dec 16, 2013, at 4:39 PM, Lawrence Bell wrote: > > > William, the LSA requirements have to be met when you register. Most KR > > builders want performance which will not be LSA. If you look at the > > performance chart of KR-2's some meet the requirement but most don't. > Flaps > > do not help because the stall requirement is without flaps, as in what if > > they don't work. The max speed is 152 knots and stall is under 50 without > > augmentation. I would assume the right prop would limit your speed but > you > > need low weight and high wing area to get stall speed. > >Larry Bell > > > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options >
KR> KR2S LSA
William, the LSA requirements have to be met when you register. Most KR builders want performance which will not be LSA. If you look at the performance chart of KR-2's some meet the requirement but most don't. Flaps do not help because the stall requirement is without flaps, as in what if they don't work. The max speed is 152 knots and stall is under 50 without augmentation. I would assume the right prop would limit your speed but you need low weight and high wing area to get stall speed. Larry Bell On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 9:50 AM, William Shambrook wrote: > I have a set of plans dated June 1995 with the KR2S updates. Have there > been a number of updates and if so how would I get them? I note that there > is a company selling KR2S plan sets. Would it be better to just purchase a > new set? > > I have noted that the question has come up whether with some modification > the KR2S could meet the stall and cruise speed requirements to meet the > sport pilot criteria. Is this doable or would it require too many > modifications? In reading the krnet entries it appears that by including > flaps you can get the stall and landing speed down somewhat but is it > adequate? > > In looking at the KRSuper2 site it claims, I believe, that the aircraft can > be built to meet the sport pilot requirements. Do you know if that is the > case? > > Thanks > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options >
KR> KR2S LSA
I believe it is possible.? The trade off for me will be useful load and cruise speed.? My modifications include: 120 HP, new center section spar to increase span to 26 feet and larger tail area.?? Obviously, it is hopeful thinking until flight testing proves me out or calls me liar. Craig Www.kr2seafury.com Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
