KR> Speed vs. HP

[Colin Rainey]

"You will probably see 250 mph with pants and 200 hp"

It doesn't work like that in the air, like adding HP to a car and expecting
speed increases. Mark's climb rate will definitely get a BIG jump, possibly
the best in the bunch so far, if he can match a prop to it. But increasing
HP does little to increase cruise or top speed after a point, especially for
planes flying at or near 200 mph and up.

Back a few months ago we discussed this at length, and all who have studied
on this have agreed; more is gained by drag reduction than HP increase. To
double the speed, drag is increased by 4 times. To get 250 mph from a KR2S,
one needs to lose the front wheel, or work very hard on a completely
aerodynamically faired leg, not just a cover, and the same holds true for
the mains, and their legs. Now anything sticking out in the breeze becomes
important; so that round strobe Mark has will have an impact at these
speeds; any antennae should have a fairing, not just be left round; wing
root fairings need special attention due to this area relating heavily to
the highest lift area on the wing so also potentially the highest drag area;
cowl flap(s) become a consideration to reduce drag; greater rake to the
vertical stab, etc...

"Speed with Economy" is definitely the bible here...

There are a lot of pluses to using the Mazda 13B in aircraft with firewalls
designed for their weight. But without alot of reinforcing, similar to the
refit rebuild that the KR360 got, I think the Mazda is too heavy, and high
output. Better to use a different engine with slightly less HP but just as
much torque after the re-drive and stay with what your firewall/airframe can
handle...

JMHO...

Colin Rainey
brokerpi...@bellsouth.net
N96TA

KR> Speed vs. HP

[wilder_jeff Wilder]

I looked into the Mazda 13b with a PSRU... the end weight was about 350 lbs 
or more.

Can the KR2 airframe handle that kind of weight hanging off the front?.. or 
the pull of 200HP?



-Jeff Wilder
CISSP,CCE,C/EH



-BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
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G e* h--- r- y+++*
--END GEEK CODE BLOCK--





>From: "Colin Rainey" <brokerpi...@bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>
>To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
>Subject: KR> Speed vs. HP
>Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 01:14:40 -0400
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>
>"You will probably see 250 mph with pants and 200 hp"
>
>It doesn't work like that in the air, like adding HP to a car and expecting
>speed increases. Mark's climb rate will definitely get a BIG jump, possibly
>the best in the bunch so far, if he can match a prop to it. But increasing
>HP does little to increase cruise or top speed after a point, especially 
>for
>planes flying at or near 200 mph and up.
>
>Back a few months ago we discussed this at length, and all who have studied
>on this have agreed; more is gained by drag reduction than HP increase. To
>double the speed, drag is increased by 4 times. To get 250 mph from a KR2S,
>one needs to lose the front wheel, or work very hard on a completely
>aerodynamically faired leg, not just a cover, and the same holds true for
>the mains, and their legs. Now anything sticking out in the breeze becomes
>important; so that round strobe Mark has will have an impact at these
>speeds; any antennae should have a fairing, not just be left round; wing
>root fairings need special attention due to this area relating heavily to
>the highest lift area on the wing so also potentially the highest drag 
>area;
>cowl flap(s) become a consideration to reduce drag; greater rake to the
>vertical stab, etc...
>
>"Speed with Economy" is definitely the bible here...
>
>There are a lot of pluses to using the Mazda 13B in aircraft with firewalls
>designed for their weight. But without alot of reinforcing, similar to the
>refit rebuild that the KR360 got, I think the Mazda is too heavy, and high
>output. Better to use a different engine with slightly less HP but just as
>much torque after the re-drive and stay with what your firewall/airframe 
>can
>handle...
>
>JMHO...
>
>Colin Rainey
>brokerpi...@bellsouth.net
>N96TA
>
>
>___
>Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
>http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
>please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> Speed vs. HP

[Myron (Dan) Freeman]

>I looked into the Mazda 13b with a PSRU... the end weight was about 350 lbs
or more.

>Can the KR2 airframe handle that kind of weight hanging off the front?.. or
the pull of 200HP?

NO!

Regards
Myron (Dan) Freeman
Indpls, Ind. 46203 USA. Home of the
2007 World Champion Indpls, Colt's
mfreem...@indy.rr.com
Posted - Friday, 03/16/07 11:52 pm 

KR> Speed vs. HP

[Randy Smith]

I understand speed and drag, I have 150 hp and get 205
level wide open. No wheel pants no cuffs No faired in
nose gear. I will bet money he can get 235 mph or
better with pants and all faired in.
A KR all covered up is about as clean a plane as you
can get.

--- Colin Rainey  wrote:

> "You will probably see 250 mph with pants and 200
> hp"
> 
> It doesn't work like that in the air, like adding HP
> to a car and expecting
> speed increases. Mark's climb rate will definitely
> get a BIG jump, possibly
> the best in the bunch so far, if he can match a prop
> to it. But increasing
> HP does little to increase cruise or top speed after
> a point, especially for
> planes flying at or near 200 mph and up.
> 
> Back a few months ago we discussed this at length,
> and all who have studied
> on this have agreed; more is gained by drag
> reduction than HP increase. To
> double the speed, drag is increased by 4 times. To
> get 250 mph from a KR2S,
> one needs to lose the front wheel, or work very hard
> on a completely
> aerodynamically faired leg, not just a cover, and
> the same holds true for
> the mains, and their legs. Now anything sticking out
> in the breeze becomes
> important; so that round strobe Mark has will have
> an impact at these
> speeds; any antennae should have a fairing, not just
> be left round; wing
> root fairings need special attention due to this
> area relating heavily to
> the highest lift area on the wing so also
> potentially the highest drag area;
> cowl flap(s) become a consideration to reduce drag;
> greater rake to the
> vertical stab, etc...
> 
> "Speed with Economy" is definitely the bible here...
> 
> There are a lot of pluses to using the Mazda 13B in
> aircraft with firewalls
> designed for their weight. But without alot of
> reinforcing, similar to the
> refit rebuild that the KR360 got, I think the Mazda
> is too heavy, and high
> output. Better to use a different engine with
> slightly less HP but just as
> much torque after the re-drive and stay with what
> your firewall/airframe can
> handle...
> 
> JMHO...
> 
> Colin Rainey
> brokerpi...@bellsouth.net
> N96TA
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 





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KR> Speed vs. HP

[phil brookman]

yes but does the enjoyment go hand in hand with speed after a point.
a lot of work for 10mph.gain
phill
- Original Message - 
From: "Randy Smith" <crz...@yahoo.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Speed vs. HP


>I understand speed and drag, I have 150 hp and get 205
> level wide open. No wheel pants no cuffs No faired in
> nose gear. I will bet money he can get 235 mph or
> better with pants and all faired in.
> A KR all covered up is about as clean a plane as you
> can get.
>
> --- Colin Rainey <brokerpi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> "You will probably see 250 mph with pants and 200
>> hp"
>>
>> It doesn't work like that in the air, like adding HP
>> to a car and expecting
>> speed increases. Mark's climb rate will definitely
>> get a BIG jump, possibly
>> the best in the bunch so far, if he can match a prop
>> to it. But increasing
>> HP does little to increase cruise or top speed after
>> a point, especially for
>> planes flying at or near 200 mph and up.
>>
>> Back a few months ago we discussed this at length,
>> and all who have studied
>> on this have agreed; more is gained by drag
>> reduction than HP increase. To
>> double the speed, drag is increased by 4 times. To
>> get 250 mph from a KR2S,
>> one needs to lose the front wheel, or work very hard
>> on a completely
>> aerodynamically faired leg, not just a cover, and
>> the same holds true for
>> the mains, and their legs. Now anything sticking out
>> in the breeze becomes
>> important; so that round strobe Mark has will have
>> an impact at these
>> speeds; any antennae should have a fairing, not just
>> be left round; wing
>> root fairings need special attention due to this
>> area relating heavily to
>> the highest lift area on the wing so also
>> potentially the highest drag area;
>> cowl flap(s) become a consideration to reduce drag;
>> greater rake to the
>> vertical stab, etc...
>>
>> "Speed with Economy" is definitely the bible here...
>>
>> There are a lot of pluses to using the Mazda 13B in
>> aircraft with firewalls
>> designed for their weight. But without alot of
>> reinforcing, similar to the
>> refit rebuild that the KR360 got, I think the Mazda
>> is too heavy, and high
>> output. Better to use a different engine with
>> slightly less HP but just as
>> much torque after the re-drive and stay with what
>> your firewall/airframe can
>> handle...
>>
>> JMHO...
>>
>> Colin Rainey
>> brokerpi...@bellsouth.net
>> N96TA
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at
>> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
>> krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
>> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
>> please see other KRnet info at
>> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>>
>
>
>
>
> 
> Finding fabulous fares is fun.
> Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and 
> hotel bargains.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
> -- 
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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KR> Speed vs. HP

[Randy Smith]

Yes speed is everything. I belive he will get
more,most folks don't. But remember most folks arn't
flying. I have 300 hp in one plane so I could go 165
kts. Its all about speed and money. 

--- phil brookman <p...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> yes but does the enjoyment go hand in hand with
> speed after a point.
> a lot of work for 10mph.gain
> phill
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Randy Smith" <crz...@yahoo.com>
> To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:08 PM
> Subject: Re: KR> Speed vs. HP
> 
> 
> >I understand speed and drag, I have 150 hp and get
> 205
> > level wide open. No wheel pants no cuffs No faired
> in
> > nose gear. I will bet money he can get 235 mph or
> > better with pants and all faired in.
> > A KR all covered up is about as clean a plane as
> you
> > can get.
> >
> > --- Colin Rainey <brokerpi...@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >> "You will probably see 250 mph with pants and 200
> >> hp"
> >>
> >> It doesn't work like that in the air, like adding
> HP
> >> to a car and expecting
> >> speed increases. Mark's climb rate will
> definitely
> >> get a BIG jump, possibly
> >> the best in the bunch so far, if he can match a
> prop
> >> to it. But increasing
> >> HP does little to increase cruise or top speed
> after
> >> a point, especially for
> >> planes flying at or near 200 mph and up.
> >>
> >> Back a few months ago we discussed this at
> length,
> >> and all who have studied
> >> on this have agreed; more is gained by drag
> >> reduction than HP increase. To
> >> double the speed, drag is increased by 4 times.
> To
> >> get 250 mph from a KR2S,
> >> one needs to lose the front wheel, or work very
> hard
> >> on a completely
> >> aerodynamically faired leg, not just a cover, and
> >> the same holds true for
> >> the mains, and their legs. Now anything sticking
> out
> >> in the breeze becomes
> >> important; so that round strobe Mark has will
> have
> >> an impact at these
> >> speeds; any antennae should have a fairing, not
> just
> >> be left round; wing
> >> root fairings need special attention due to this
> >> area relating heavily to
> >> the highest lift area on the wing so also
> >> potentially the highest drag area;
> >> cowl flap(s) become a consideration to reduce
> drag;
> >> greater rake to the
> >> vertical stab, etc...
> >>
> >> "Speed with Economy" is definitely the bible
> here...
> >>
> >> There are a lot of pluses to using the Mazda 13B
> in
> >> aircraft with firewalls
> >> designed for their weight. But without alot of
> >> reinforcing, similar to the
> >> refit rebuild that the KR360 got, I think the
> Mazda
> >> is too heavy, and high
> >> output. Better to use a different engine with
> >> slightly less HP but just as
> >> much torque after the re-drive and stay with what
> >> your firewall/airframe can
> >> handle...
> >>
> >> JMHO...
> >>
> >> Colin Rainey
> >> brokerpi...@bellsouth.net
> >> N96TA
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Search the KRnet Archives at
> >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> >> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> >> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
> >> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> >> please see other KRnet info at
> >> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

> > Finding fabulous fares is fun.
> > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel
> sites to find flight and 
> > hotel bargains.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
> >
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> > http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> > please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.15/659 -
> Release Date: 
> > 30/01/2007 09:31
> >
> > 
> 
> -- 
> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for
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> It has removed 25502 spam emails to date.
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> ___
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> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
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KR> Speed vs. HP

[Brian Kraut]

Again I recommend taking a look at the downloadable spreadsheet here
http://www.aircraftdesign.com/sadfh.html.  It allows you to put in all the
parameters of the plane and then do tweaking to see what the performance
improvements will be.  I have a KR set up in the spreadsheet and I was going
to do a plot of performance figures for a KR with a constant drag with
different engines installed, but life keeps getting in the way.

The book is also excellent for anyone doing aircraft design or just looking
at tweaking an existing design.  I have dozens of aircraft design books and
this one is by far the most usefull.

Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
Behalf Of Colin Rainey
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 1:15 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> Speed vs. HP


"You will probably see 250 mph with pants and 200 hp"

It doesn't work like that in the air, like adding HP to a car and expecting
speed increases. Mark's climb rate will definitely get a BIG jump, possibly
the best in the bunch so far, if he can match a prop to it. But increasing
HP does little to increase cruise or top speed after a point, especially for
planes flying at or near 200 mph and up.

Back a few months ago we discussed this at length, and all who have studied
on this have agreed; more is gained by drag reduction than HP increase. To
double the speed, drag is increased by 4 times. To get 250 mph from a KR2S,
one needs to lose the front wheel, or work very hard on a completely
aerodynamically faired leg, not just a cover, and the same holds true for
the mains, and their legs. Now anything sticking out in the breeze becomes
important; so that round strobe Mark has will have an impact at these
speeds; any antennae should have a fairing, not just be left round; wing
root fairings need special attention due to this area relating heavily to
the highest lift area on the wing so also potentially the highest drag area;
cowl flap(s) become a consideration to reduce drag; greater rake to the
vertical stab, etc...

"Speed with Economy" is definitely the bible here...

There are a lot of pluses to using the Mazda 13B in aircraft with firewalls
designed for their weight. But without alot of reinforcing, similar to the
refit rebuild that the KR360 got, I think the Mazda is too heavy, and high
output. Better to use a different engine with slightly less HP but just as
much torque after the re-drive and stay with what your firewall/airframe can
handle...

JMHO...

Colin Rainey
brokerpi...@bellsouth.net
N96TA


___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html