KR> light sport vs. experimental

[Dj Merrill]

On 06/01/2009 12:11 PM, LG McCaw wrote:
>   The only question I've never really had a satisfactory answer
> for is - IF I receive and E-AB certificate with stated limits falling
> within the LSA category, (making it sport eligible) and later re-prop or
> restate the max RPM or whatever, is it possible to reestablish the
> operating limits 

Yes, you can, and the process is outlined in the Operating
Limitations attached to your airworthiness certificate.  It is a Major
Alteration, and most Op Lims are written such that you go back into
Phase 1 testing for 5 hours, and at the end you simply sign off that
you've done the testing in the airplane log book, and it does not need
another FAA inspection.  However, some older Op Lims were written
differently.  My 1983 Glasair was written such that any major alteration
needed another inspection, but I went to the FSDO, and they had no
problem issuing a new set of Op Lims that matched the current
recommended FAA procedure, which is the 5 hour Phase 1.  It was some
very simple paperwork and some nominal fee (like $20 or something like
that) to process the request.

Be forewarned, that once you remove an aircraft from within the
stated limits of the LSA category, a Sport Pilot can not fly the
aircraft again even if you physically change the airplane so that it
falls back inside the stated limits of the LSA category.  The rules are
written such that the airplane must always have been operated within the
stated limitations of the LSA category in order for a Sport Pilot to
legally fly it.

fyi

-Dj

-- 
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/

"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an 
airplane."  --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005

KR> light sport vs. experimental

[Ron Butterfield]

On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 12:11 PM, LG McCaw  wrote:
 The only question I've never really had a satisfactory answer
for is - IF I receive and E-AB certificate with stated limits falling
within the LSA category, (making it sport eligible) and later re-prop or
restate the max RPM or whatever, is it possible to reestablish the
operating limits - the certificate never changes it's always E-AB.

The E-AB doesn't change, but the Sport Pilot eligibility does.  One of the
requirements for a plane to be eligible for a Sport Pilot to use is that it
"always has met" the requirements.

So, if you set, for example, a 2500 rpm limit in the operational limits to
meet the standards, then later changed the operational limits to 3300 rpm to
get more performance, which then put you outside the performance
limitations, even if you change the operational limits back, that aircraft
can never again be eligible for Sport Pilot use.

-- 
Regards,
RonB

KR> light sport vs. experimental

[LG McCaw]

I did some checking into this myself.  The way I understand it,
there are two classes of LSA.  Those being S-LSA which are factory built
LSA compliant airplanes.  These are not "certified" planes, rather are
build to accepted standards and are self-regulated by the manufacturer.
The prototype is tested and reviewed by the FAA, but then it's up to the
manufacturer to maintain build quality without variance from the
prototype. 
The other category is E-LSA which is an "experimental LSA"  This
category is built from a KIT that is based on an SLSA airplane.  In
other words, to be classed as an ELSA, there first must be an SLSA
version.  The ELSA may come in any stage of completion, but no variation
from the SLSA prototype is allowed.  So, forget an LSA classed version
of the KR.  
So, that leave the only one option available, E-AB. Sport pilots
may fly ANY plane (certified(Experimental or otherwise), SLSA, ELSA)
provided it meets the regulations for the plane (as Larry said).  
All the rules for E-AB apply, and as I understand it, since you,
as builder, set the operating limits for the plane and there is no
"official" language defining VW or Corvair operational limits, you may
prop and define the limits as falling within the LSA category. IE: 2500
RPM limit with whatever prop (or appropriate) etc.  Doesn't mean the
plane can't exceed it, just means you'd be operating outside the defined
limits if you do exceed it ( which means, outside the law and probably
as important outside insurance coverage).  If you get caught.??  
The only question I've never really had a satisfactory answer
for is - IF I receive and E-AB certificate with stated limits falling
within the LSA category, (making it sport eligible) and later re-prop or
restate the max RPM or whatever, is it possible to reestablish the
operating limits - the certificate never changes it's always E-AB. I've
been told yes, probably require another 20-40 hour fly off, and I've
been told no, once the limits are defined it's very difficult to change
them.  The top end issue can be handled by propping/rpm limits on the
engine etc.  The bigger problem is getting the stall low enough, without
flaps or other device. That would require modifying the wing, maybe
longer as Mark L suggests or different shape.  (At that point, it could
be argued that it's no longer a KR anyway.)

Just my two cents,

L.G.M.



-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Larry Flesner
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:07 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> light sport vs. experimental

At 01:09 AM 6/1/2009, you wrote:
>There are some nuances about LSA pilots flying
>Experimentals, so I'd think if you could license it as LSA to start
with,
>you might be ahead.
>Mark Langford
+


If I'm not mistaken, and I might be, a light sport pilot can fly any
aircraft
that meets the requirement of light sport.  I seem to also recall that
the
builder of a light sport aircraft must attend a class before he can do
the
"annual inspection" on his aircraft, even though he / she built it.  In
discussing the pro's and con's with a local LSA builder, the only
positive
side of licensing it as LSA was that if he ever sold the airplane, the
new
buyer could attend a class and then do his own inspection.  If you're
not
building to resell, I see no reason to go LSA certification.  I also
recall
there were many restrictions on doing any mod's on a LSA but that
may just be on a "kit" built aircraft.  If all the above info is 
correct, license
as experimental, get the mechanics certificate for your aircraft, and
then
fly it as light sport.  Your only hurtle will be getting a KR 
derivative licensed
as a LSA.  Someone with the correct answers chime in here.

Larry Flesner


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KR> light sport vs. experimental

[Larry Flesner]

At 01:09 AM 6/1/2009, you wrote:
>There are some nuances about LSA pilots flying
>Experimentals, so I'd think if you could license it as LSA to start with,
>you might be ahead.
>Mark Langford
+


If I'm not mistaken, and I might be, a light sport pilot can fly any aircraft
that meets the requirement of light sport.  I seem to also recall that the
builder of a light sport aircraft must attend a class before he can do the
"annual inspection" on his aircraft, even though he / she built it.  In
discussing the pro's and con's with a local LSA builder, the only positive
side of licensing it as LSA was that if he ever sold the airplane, the new
buyer could attend a class and then do his own inspection.  If you're not
building to resell, I see no reason to go LSA certification.  I also recall
there were many restrictions on doing any mod's on a LSA but that
may just be on a "kit" built aircraft.  If all the above info is 
correct, license
as experimental, get the mechanics certificate for your aircraft, and then
fly it as light sport.  Your only hurtle will be getting a KR 
derivative licensed
as a LSA.  Someone with the correct answers chime in here.

Larry Flesner