KR>Need advise - Fuel pump installation
Pictures to come ! thanks see you at Mt vernon Brian N8575C KR-2 (td) - Original Message - From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:28 PM Subject: Re: KR>Need advise - Fuel pump installation > Brian G. Douglas Killeen Texas N8575C KR2 (TD) > NOW at the airport after a restoration. > > Brian, > > You got any pics? > > > > da...@kr-builder.org > >
KR>Need advise - Fuel pump installation
I have just received our 2 Facet fuel pumps. I am planning on installing them in-line. My question is: What is the best way to know if one, just one of the fuel pumps is not operating. Install switches on both. Indicator lights. Something else? See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC da...@kr-builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org
KR>Need advise - Fuel pump installation
I will have the same setup. Each pump with a separate switch, plus a low pressure light after the last one. 1st pump will be primary. If low pressure light stays on, I will turn on the backup pump. Of course, optimum would be a fuel pressure gage, but it might not be as attention getting as a light. At 05:32 PM 1/20/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I have just received our 2 Facet fuel pumps. I am planning on installing >them in-line. My question is: What is the best way to know if one, just one > of the fuel pumps is not operating. Install switches on both. Indicator >lights. Something else? Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 lar...@socal.rr.com
KR>Need advise - Fuel pump installation
Larry, Tell me more about the low pressure light. What is it, where to get it, how much pressure, how is it hooked up? Thanks, See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC da...@kr-builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org ---Original Message--- From: KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 6:18:22 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Need advise - Fuel pump installation I will have the same setup. Each pump with a separate switch, plus a low pressure light after the last one. 1st pump will be primary. If low pressure light stays on, I will turn on the backup pump. Of course, optimum would be a fuel pressure gage, but it might not be as attention getting as a light. At 05:32 PM 1/20/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I have just received our 2 Facet fuel pumps. I am planning on installing >them in-line. My question is: What is the best way to know if one, just one > of the fuel pumps is not operating. Install switches on both. Indicator >lights. Something else? Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 lar...@socal.rr.com ___ to UNSUBSCRIBE from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html .
KR>Need advise - Fuel pump installation
Dan, Installing them in-line is probably not a good idea. Electric fuel pumps push, not pull. Install them as close to the the tanks as possible. I found this out the hard way...I put dual Carter electric fuel pumps (in-line)in my drag-race car, it overpowered the carb float... and flooded the engine...on the starting lineNOT Pretty. Why did I put the second one in the first place? I had the first one mounted in the engine compartment, the engine would stave for fuel halfway down the strip because electric pumps push fuel, not pullDuh! How did I fix it? Removed the front fuel pump and ran the second installed pump solo near the tank. Wha-la...no more fuel starving, or flooding. Try doing that in the pits, not a fun day at the races...But I did learn something! Gravity feed fuel (all of it)to the pump inlet. Get ALL of the fuel to drain out of the tank and into the fuel pump inlet. Otherwise you're just carrying extra weight and unusable fuel. Placement of the pump is critical (Yes, I'm being.redundant). For redundant fuel pumps to be exactly that, then entirely separate systems are usually in order. Follow this same type of thinking throughout the installation. Suction and pressure sides. Power for the pumps should be on separate electrical busses (essential buss and auxiliary buss). Each should have it's own on/off switch, fuse or circuit breaker, and fuel inlet/outlet. Although I'm not at all crazy about routing fuel through the cockpit, fuel gauges for both pumps should suffice. albeit requires additional pilot workload to monitor the systems guages. You could research the pressure settings for a low oil pressure light sending unit, select one that is suitable for your installation (carb), plumb and wire that into the system for low fuel pressure. Most float carbs for automotive use need a maximum of 6 lbs of fuel pressure, finding an oil pressure sending unit that indicates at something like 1.5 psi will be a real challenge. Netters: A little help Ron Eason sells a nice fuel management panel, the schematic is at: http://www.jrl-engineering.com/images/knotvue/fuelmgmtcircbd.gif A picture of the board is: http://www.jrl-engineering.com/images/knotvue/fueltkmgr.jpg If you want to order one: http://www.jrl-engineering.com/kv-ftorder.html is a form to fill out. I'm not pushing these for Ron, I just think it's an elegant solution for a fairly complex issue. I like ideas that reduce your pilot workload...This happens to be one of them. --- Dan Heath wrote: > I have just received our 2 Facet fuel pumps. I am > planning on installing > them in-line. My question is: What is the best way > to know if one, just one > of the fuel pumps is not operating. Install > switches on both. Indicator > lights. Something else? = Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cab...@yahoo.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
KR>Need advise - Fuel pump installation
In a message dated 1/20/2004 3:33:40 PM Mountain Standard Time, da...@alltel.net writes: > My question is: What is the best way to know if one, just one > of the fuel pumps is not operating. Install switches on both. First of all, you can hear the difference when they are both on or just one is on. Secondly, and some disagree, you don't want both pumps running all the time anyway so put in a switch for each one. If they both ran all the time, how would you know if one failed? Jim H.
KR>Need advise - Fuel pump installation
Gezz Guys are we making this hard or what? Mine has one pump (facet) with a left and right switch that pumps out of the wings, to the header tank. It just dumps it into the header. I do not have a low preasure or low level light but you can feel when the pump is pumping air. On mine the pump is under the pax seat. Now I do not know where the origional owner got the valve to switch tanks but...You could put switches and light all day but all you do is create a larger problem Now to refreash, one pump is all you need. These things (pumps) are fairly reliable and you should be able to see if all is working well. Brian G. Douglas Killeen Texas N8575C KR2 (TD) NOW at the airport after a restoration. I WILL BE AT Mount Vernon!! - Original Message - From: "Scott Cable" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:41 PM Subject: Re: KR>Need advise - Fuel pump installation > Dan, > Installing them in-line is probably not a good idea. > Electric fuel pumps push, not pull. Install them as > close to the the tanks as possible. > I found this out the hard way...I put dual Carter > electric fuel pumps (in-line)in my drag-race car, it > overpowered the carb float... and flooded the > engine...on the starting lineNOT Pretty. > Why did I put the second one in the first place? I > had the first one mounted in the engine compartment, > the engine would stave for fuel halfway down the > strip because electric pumps push fuel, not > pullDuh! How did I fix it? > Removed the front fuel pump and ran the second > installed pump solo near the tank. Wha-la...no more > fuel starving, or flooding. > Try doing that in the pits, not a fun day at the > races...But I did learn something! > > Gravity feed fuel (all of it)to the pump inlet. > Get ALL of the fuel to drain out of the tank and into > the fuel pump inlet. Otherwise you're just carrying > extra weight and unusable fuel. Placement of the pump > is critical (Yes, I'm being.redundant). > > For redundant fuel pumps to be exactly that, then > entirely separate systems are usually in order. > Follow this same type of thinking throughout the > installation. Suction and pressure sides. > Power for the pumps should be on separate electrical > busses (essential buss and auxiliary buss). Each > should have it's own on/off switch, fuse or circuit > breaker, and fuel inlet/outlet. > Although I'm not at all crazy about routing fuel > through the cockpit, fuel gauges for both pumps should > suffice. albeit requires additional pilot workload to > monitor the systems guages. > You could research the pressure settings for a low > oil pressure light sending unit, select one that is > suitable for your installation (carb), plumb and wire > that into the system for low fuel pressure. Most > float carbs for automotive use need a maximum of 6 lbs > of fuel pressure, finding an oil pressure sending unit > that indicates at something like 1.5 psi will be a > real challenge. Netters: A little help > >
KR>Need advise - Fuel pump installation
Brian G. Douglas Killeen Texas N8575C KR2 (TD) NOW at the airport after a restoration. Brian, You got any pics? See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC da...@kr-builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org ---Original Message--- From: KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 9:19:46 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Need advise - Fuel pump installation Gezz Guys are we making this hard or what? Mine has one pump (facet) with a left and right switch that pumps out of the wings, to the header tank. It just dumps it into the header. I do not have a low preasure or low level light but you can feel when the pump is pumping air. On mine the pump is under the pax seat. Now I do not know where the origional owner got the valve to switch tanks but...You could put switches and light all day but all you do is create a larger problem Now to refreash, one pump is all you need. These things (pumps) are fairly reliable and you should be able to see if all is working well. Brian G. Douglas Killeen Texas N8575C KR2 (TD) NOW at the airport after a restoration. I WILL BE AT Mount Vernon!! - Original Message - From: "Scott Cable" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:41 PM Subject: Re: KR>Need advise - Fuel pump installation > Dan, > Installing them in-line is probably not a good idea. > Electric fuel pumps push, not pull. Install them as > close to the the tanks as possible. > I found this out the hard way...I put dual Carter > electric fuel pumps (in-line)in my drag-race car, it > overpowered the carb float... and flooded the > engine...on the starting lineNOT Pretty. > Why did I put the second one in the first place? I > had the first one mounted in the engine compartment, > the engine would stave for fuel halfway down the > strip because electric pumps push fuel, not > pullDuh! How did I fix it? > Removed the front fuel pump and ran the second > installed pump solo near the tank. Wha-la...no more > fuel starving, or flooding. > Try doing that in the pits, not a fun day at the > races...But I did learn something! > > Gravity feed fuel (all of it)to the pump inlet. > Get ALL of the fuel to drain out of the tank and into > the fuel pump inlet. Otherwise you're just carrying > extra weight and unusable fuel. Placement of the pump > is critical (Yes, I'm being.redundant). > > For redundant fuel pumps to be exactly that, then > entirely separate systems are usually in order. > Follow this same type of thinking throughout the > installation. Suction and pressure sides. > Power for the pumps should be on separate electrical > busses (essential buss and auxiliary buss). Each > should have it's own on/off switch, fuse or circuit > breaker, and fuel inlet/outlet. > Although I'm not at all crazy about routing fuel > through the cockpit, fuel gauges for both pumps should > suffice. albeit requires additional pilot workload to > monitor the systems guages. > You could research the pressure settings for a low > oil pressure light sending unit, select one that is > suitable for your installation (carb), plumb and wire > that into the system for low fuel pressure. Most > float carbs for automotive use need a maximum of 6 lbs > of fuel pressure, finding an oil pressure sending unit > that indicates at something like 1.5 psi will be a > real challenge. Netters: A little help > > ___ to UNSUBSCRIBE from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html .
KR>Need advise - Fuel pump installation
When I decided to change the engine on ZS-WEC, I realized once the new engine (VW 2.4 liter) got delivered that it did not have a fuel pump port. So, I bought a Facet fuel pump, and I was hoping to gravity feed from the header tank, through the Facet, to the carb. Well, the Facet seems to bring quite a flow restriction. Moreover, that restriction is not consistent. It depends on where the pump mechanism sits when you switch off. So, my 2.4 liter won't work at full RPM without the pump on. I have a warning light (light on-"pump on"), but the Facet being mounted inside the cockpit, I know I won't need a warning to know it has stopped! Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC Tunis, Tunisia
KR>Need advise - Fuel pump installation
Dan, just as a point of reference only. My one and only fuel pump is located on the single line between the fuel selector valve and the engine. I do like the idea of two though, if the fuel pump is required for proper fuel flow. Much as Scott said, while not located near a tank for "pushing" it is located at the lowest point in the system prior to it's upward bend to the enginethus pushing. I know this did not answer your question, thus for reference only. A nice option listed in the facet install instructions is to wire a oil pressure safety switch to the fuel pump so the pump stops when the engine stops with the ignition switch on. This would not be a factor in an engine out, if the prop was windmilling as oil pressure would still be generated. The only issue I can think of would be if you lose oil pressure, but with that that big ol fan is going to stop anyway. Course I guess you could just wire to through ignition. This is one electrical device that is on my essential bus (aeroelectric.com). Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://shopping.msn.com/softcontent/softcontent.aspx?scmId=1418
KR>Need advise - Fuel pump installation
Dan, There are lots of options and I am sure you will get advice from more than one source. I have two wing tanks and one header tank with two Facet pumps one for each wing tank. We incorporated some hard wired logic in my alternating controls of the pumps. The wiring diagram is at http://krron.freeyellow.com/ . You can eliminate the auto feature and go manual with indicating lights and modify the diagram. KRRon
KR>Need advise - Fuel pump installation
If you want a different approach substitute a "flow switch and light to confirm flow" for a pressure gauge or switch [ pressure will not confirm the flow of fuel if that's your intent.] Omega controls is one source. KRRon
