Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Scott Kitterman wrote: > On Thursday, September 05, 2013 21:52:49 Rohan Garg wrote: >> On Thursday 05 Sep 2013 12:11:22 PM Scott Kitterman wrote: >> > On Thursday, September 05, 2013 21:20:51 Rohan Garg wrote: >> > > > >> Below is the summary of above changes on the ubuntu.com/download >> > > > > >> > > > >pages >> > > > > >> > > > >> for 13.10: >> > > > >> >> > > > >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop >> > > > >> == >> > > > >> >> > > > >> In both download boxes (LTS & 13.10): >> > > > >> >> > > > >> * On the right hand side above the "Choose your flavour" replace: >> > > > >> >> > > > >> "If you have a PC with the Windows 8 logo or UEFI firmware, choose >> > > > >the 64-bit download. Read more" >> > > > > >> > > > >> with >> > > > >> >> > > > >> "If you have an older PC with less than 2GB of memory, choose the >> > > > >> 32-bit download." >> > > > >> >> > > > >> * Update the Choose your flavour drop-downs, with first option - >> > > > >> the >> > > > >> default: - 64-bit >> > > > >> - 32-bit (for machines with less than 2GB RAM) >> > > > >> >> > > > >> When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. >> > > > >> >> > > > >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server >> > > >> > > Quote from original email ^^ ( specifically for the desktop edition ) >> > >> > Thanks. IIRC, there were Atom 32 systems sold with 2GB of RAM, but I'm >> > not >> > 100% sure. >> > >> > I particularly don't think this should be done for 12.04 (as this >> > proposes) >> > since multi-arch was in a much less deployed state back then. For 12.04, >> > I'd also worry about a user wanting to install some third party 32 bit >> > only >> > package and discovering it won't work due to some library not yet >> > converted. They end up then having to reinstall their system (or give up >> > in >> > disgust). >> >> Your arguments are technically sound, but from a UI POV won't it look >> ugly/inconsistent to have amd64 listed first for 13.10 and i386 for 12.04 ? >> >> > What advantage does running 64bit give a user that they would care about? >> >> I can only think of one, albeit a very important one. 32 bit ISO's don't >> come with EFI support, only the 64 bit ISO's support machines with EFI / >> Secure Boot. Hence this must be clarified somehow on the download page, >> else people just get pissed off that Kubuntu won't even boot on their shiny >> new computer. > > Agreed. > > I think list 32 bit first and say (as Ubuntu does now): > > "If you have a PC with the Windows 8 logo or UEFI firmware, choose the 64-bit > download. Read more" > > Then some like to something about "How do I tell if I have UEFI firmware". > > Once we get to 14.04, then the "last LTS not so great on multi-arch" problem > goes away. > > Scott K I have to vote with ScottK on this one. While I've been running 64-bit forever, I knew what I was doing, or at least where to go to read up on the issues. Our hoped-for Windows user will not know the issues, and the uname -a command will be unknown to them, and useless in Windows as well. Backporting this to 12.04 sounds dangerous. On the other hand 14.04 sounds like the perfect time to make the change. Valorie -- http://about.me/valoriez -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
While all new computers will be 64bit, a multitude of older hardware is 32bit ONLY. For example ALL of my servers and laptops are. My main laptop is an Apple Macbook from 2006 Beauty of linux is that it still runs reasonably fast on older hardware while you always need latest hardware for OSX and reasonably new hardware for Windows. Please keep that in mind. While it's okay to promote 64bit, keep 32bit in parallel. "uname -a" is great, but that needs a system installed already... ;-) So you will need some sort of blurb on the download page for the novices to make an educated decision of which to download. Ie: "If your system is pre 2010, it is likely that you will need 32bit install". This will give you a working system in any case. Rather than resulting in a frustrated novice having been enthusiastic starting with linux and then ending up with a non-functional 64bit system. Cheers, Ingo On 5/09/2013 07:45, Aaron Honeycutt wrote: > I'll included that in the official docs as it does seems to be > important. The "uname -a" command will give you information about your > kernel build which in turn will give you what you need to know. > > Sent from Windows Mail > > *From:* Scott Kitterman > *Sent:* ?Tuesday?, ?September? ?3?, ?2013 ?10?:?46? ?AM > *To:* Kubuntu Developer Discussion > > Jonathan Riddell wrote: > >Should we follow and recommend 64 bit? > > > >My gut feeling is that most people have 64 bit computers now and I > >trust the foundation team to have done the legwork to verify that. So > >I'm in favour of it. > > Most do, but there have been stacks of 32 bit only Atom netbooks sold > in the last several years. Given that we want to be friendly to > non-technical users, I think we should wait. > > Try writing out the instructions for a non-technical user to figure > out if they need a 32 bit image. I'm not sure how to do it. > > I'd suggest we do this for 14.10. > > Scott K smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
On Thursday, September 05, 2013 21:20:51 Rohan Garg wrote: > > >> Below is the summary of above changes on the ubuntu.com/download > > > > > >pages > > > > > >> for 13.10: > > >> > > >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop > > >> == > > >> > > >> In both download boxes (LTS & 13.10): > > >> > > >> * On the right hand side above the "Choose your flavour" replace: > > >> > > >> "If you have a PC with the Windows 8 logo or UEFI firmware, choose > > >the 64-bit download. Read more" > > >> > > >> with > > >> > > >> "If you have an older PC with less than 2GB of memory, choose the > > >> 32-bit download." > > >> > > >> * Update the Choose your flavour drop-downs, with first option - the > > >> default: - 64-bit > > >> - 32-bit (for machines with less than 2GB RAM) > > >> > > >> When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. > > >> > > >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server > > Quote from original email ^^ ( specifically for the desktop edition ) Thanks. IIRC, there were Atom 32 systems sold with 2GB of RAM, but I'm not 100% sure. I particularly don't think this should be done for 12.04 (as this proposes) since multi-arch was in a much less deployed state back then. For 12.04, I'd also worry about a user wanting to install some third party 32 bit only package and discovering it won't work due to some library not yet converted. They end up then having to reinstall their system (or give up in disgust). What advantage does running 64bit give a user that they would care about? Scott K -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
On Thursday, September 05, 2013 21:52:49 Rohan Garg wrote: > On Thursday 05 Sep 2013 12:11:22 PM Scott Kitterman wrote: > > On Thursday, September 05, 2013 21:20:51 Rohan Garg wrote: > > > > >> Below is the summary of above changes on the ubuntu.com/download > > > > > > > > > >pages > > > > > > > > > >> for 13.10: > > > > >> > > > > >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop > > > > >> == > > > > >> > > > > >> In both download boxes (LTS & 13.10): > > > > >> > > > > >> * On the right hand side above the "Choose your flavour" replace: > > > > >> > > > > >> "If you have a PC with the Windows 8 logo or UEFI firmware, choose > > > > >the 64-bit download. Read more" > > > > > > > > > >> with > > > > >> > > > > >> "If you have an older PC with less than 2GB of memory, choose the > > > > >> 32-bit download." > > > > >> > > > > >> * Update the Choose your flavour drop-downs, with first option - > > > > >> the > > > > >> default: - 64-bit > > > > >> - 32-bit (for machines with less than 2GB RAM) > > > > >> > > > > >> When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. > > > > >> > > > > >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server > > > > > > Quote from original email ^^ ( specifically for the desktop edition ) > > > > Thanks. IIRC, there were Atom 32 systems sold with 2GB of RAM, but I'm > > not > > 100% sure. > > > > I particularly don't think this should be done for 12.04 (as this > > proposes) > > since multi-arch was in a much less deployed state back then. For 12.04, > > I'd also worry about a user wanting to install some third party 32 bit > > only > > package and discovering it won't work due to some library not yet > > converted. They end up then having to reinstall their system (or give up > > in > > disgust). > > Your arguments are technically sound, but from a UI POV won't it look > ugly/inconsistent to have amd64 listed first for 13.10 and i386 for 12.04 ? > > > What advantage does running 64bit give a user that they would care about? > > I can only think of one, albeit a very important one. 32 bit ISO's don't > come with EFI support, only the 64 bit ISO's support machines with EFI / > Secure Boot. Hence this must be clarified somehow on the download page, > else people just get pissed off that Kubuntu won't even boot on their shiny > new computer. Agreed. I think list 32 bit first and say (as Ubuntu does now): "If you have a PC with the Windows 8 logo or UEFI firmware, choose the 64-bit download. Read more" Then some like to something about "How do I tell if I have UEFI firmware". Once we get to 14.04, then the "last LTS not so great on multi-arch" problem goes away. Scott K -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
> >> Below is the summary of above changes on the ubuntu.com/download > > > >pages > > > >> for 13.10: > >> > >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop > >> == > >> > >> In both download boxes (LTS & 13.10): > >> > >> * On the right hand side above the "Choose your flavour" replace: > >> > >> "If you have a PC with the Windows 8 logo or UEFI firmware, choose > > > >the > > > >> 64-bit download. Read more" > >> > >> with > >> > >> "If you have an older PC with less than 2GB of memory, choose the > >> 32-bit download." > >> > >> * Update the Choose your flavour drop-downs, with first option - the > >> default: - 64-bit > >> - 32-bit (for machines with less than 2GB RAM) > >> > >> When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. > >> > >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server Quote from original email ^^ ( specifically for the desktop edition ) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
On Thursday 05 Sep 2013 12:11:22 PM Scott Kitterman wrote: > On Thursday, September 05, 2013 21:20:51 Rohan Garg wrote: > > > >> Below is the summary of above changes on the ubuntu.com/download > > > > > > > >pages > > > > > > > >> for 13.10: > > > >> > > > >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop > > > >> == > > > >> > > > >> In both download boxes (LTS & 13.10): > > > >> > > > >> * On the right hand side above the "Choose your flavour" replace: > > > >> > > > >> "If you have a PC with the Windows 8 logo or UEFI firmware, choose > > > > > > > >the 64-bit download. Read more" > > > > > > > >> with > > > >> > > > >> "If you have an older PC with less than 2GB of memory, choose the > > > >> 32-bit download." > > > >> > > > >> * Update the Choose your flavour drop-downs, with first option - the > > > >> default: - 64-bit > > > >> - 32-bit (for machines with less than 2GB RAM) > > > >> > > > >> When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. > > > >> > > > >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server > > > > Quote from original email ^^ ( specifically for the desktop edition ) > > Thanks. IIRC, there were Atom 32 systems sold with 2GB of RAM, but I'm not > 100% sure. > > I particularly don't think this should be done for 12.04 (as this proposes) > since multi-arch was in a much less deployed state back then. For 12.04, > I'd also worry about a user wanting to install some third party 32 bit only > package and discovering it won't work due to some library not yet > converted. They end up then having to reinstall their system (or give up in > disgust). > Your arguments are technically sound, but from a UI POV won't it look ugly/inconsistent to have amd64 listed first for 13.10 and i386 for 12.04 ? > What advantage does running 64bit give a user that they would care about? > I can only think of one, albeit a very important one. 32 bit ISO's don't come with EFI support, only the 64 bit ISO's support machines with EFI / Secure Boot. Hence this must be clarified somehow on the download page, else people just get pissed off that Kubuntu won't even boot on their shiny new computer. Regards Rohan Garg signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
Rohan Garg wrote: >On Tuesday 03 Sep 2013 3:05:30 PM Jonathan Riddell wrote: >> Should we follow and recommend 64 bit? >> >> My gut feeling is that most people have 64 bit computers now and I >> trust the foundation team to have done the legwork to verify that. >So I'm >> in favour of it. >> >> Jonathan >> >> - Forwarded message from Dmitrijs Ledkovs > >> - >> >> Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 11:15:21 +0100 >> From: Dmitrijs Ledkovs >> To: ubuntu-release >> Sender: ubuntu-release-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com >> Subject: [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on >the >> download pages >> >> During vUDS we discussed 32 vs 64 bit, in particular what the >> messaging about the choice should be. The discussion started with >> outlining available data, and what further data we should be >> collecting for future analysis. At the moment, neither of the images >> is compatible with all machines out there (out of the box without >> modifying any bios/boot options). And we believe that 64-bit image >has >> now become more compatible for new installations, and is more >> advantageous for people to install. >> >> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21877/client-s-32v64-bit/ >> >> Thus on the download pages starting from 13.10 release the messaging >> will be adjusted to direct users by default at the 64-bit image, and >> hints will be given as to when users should select a 32-bit option >> instead. >> >> Similarly I'd like to ask all other flavours to carefully asses their >> demographic and target audience and potentially also adapt similar >> messaging strategy on their flavour websites to promote 64-bit images >> by default. Do note that AMD64-based processor, the Opteron, was >> released more than 10 years ago in April 2003. >> >> Below is the summary of above changes on the ubuntu.com/download >pages >> for 13.10: >> >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop >> == >> >> In both download boxes (LTS & 13.10): >> >> * On the right hand side above the "Choose your flavour" replace: >> >> "If you have a PC with the Windows 8 logo or UEFI firmware, choose >the >> 64-bit download. Read more" >> >> with >> >> "If you have an older PC with less than 2GB of memory, choose the >> 32-bit download." >> >> * Update the Choose your flavour drop-downs, with first option - the >> default: - 64-bit >> - 32-bit (for machines with less than 2GB RAM) >> >> When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. >> >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server >> >> Match the LTS Choose your flavour drop down to the desktop drop-downs >> - 64-bit >> - 32-bit (for servers with less than 2GB RAM) >> >> When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. >> >> >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/zh-CN >> === >> The warning message on the right & the LTS download box stay the >same. >> (The Ubuntu Chinese 12.04.0 LTS does get re-published for point >> releases, and UEFI support was only introduced in .2 images) >> >> The Ubuntu Kylin box, will have the buttons change around: >> * 64 bit button on top >> * 32 bit button following below >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Dmitrijs. > > >I'm in favor of the wording that has been proposed for the Desktop >ISO's. It's >very clear which ISO the user will most likely need. Where do we find that? Scott K -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
On Tuesday 03 Sep 2013 3:05:30 PM Jonathan Riddell wrote: > Should we follow and recommend 64 bit? > > My gut feeling is that most people have 64 bit computers now and I > trust the foundation team to have done the legwork to verify that. So I'm > in favour of it. > > Jonathan > > - Forwarded message from Dmitrijs Ledkovs > - > > Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 11:15:21 +0100 > From: Dmitrijs Ledkovs > To: ubuntu-release > Sender: ubuntu-release-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the > download pages > > During vUDS we discussed 32 vs 64 bit, in particular what the > messaging about the choice should be. The discussion started with > outlining available data, and what further data we should be > collecting for future analysis. At the moment, neither of the images > is compatible with all machines out there (out of the box without > modifying any bios/boot options). And we believe that 64-bit image has > now become more compatible for new installations, and is more > advantageous for people to install. > > http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21877/client-s-32v64-bit/ > > Thus on the download pages starting from 13.10 release the messaging > will be adjusted to direct users by default at the 64-bit image, and > hints will be given as to when users should select a 32-bit option > instead. > > Similarly I'd like to ask all other flavours to carefully asses their > demographic and target audience and potentially also adapt similar > messaging strategy on their flavour websites to promote 64-bit images > by default. Do note that AMD64-based processor, the Opteron, was > released more than 10 years ago in April 2003. > > Below is the summary of above changes on the ubuntu.com/download pages > for 13.10: > > http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop > == > > In both download boxes (LTS & 13.10): > > * On the right hand side above the "Choose your flavour" replace: > > "If you have a PC with the Windows 8 logo or UEFI firmware, choose the > 64-bit download. Read more" > > with > > "If you have an older PC with less than 2GB of memory, choose the > 32-bit download." > > * Update the Choose your flavour drop-downs, with first option - the > default: - 64-bit > - 32-bit (for machines with less than 2GB RAM) > > When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. > > http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server > > Match the LTS Choose your flavour drop down to the desktop drop-downs > - 64-bit > - 32-bit (for servers with less than 2GB RAM) > > When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. > > > http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/zh-CN > === > The warning message on the right & the LTS download box stay the same. > (The Ubuntu Chinese 12.04.0 LTS does get re-published for point > releases, and UEFI support was only introduced in .2 images) > > The Ubuntu Kylin box, will have the buttons change around: > * 64 bit button on top > * 32 bit button following below > > > > Regards, > > Dmitrijs. I'm in favor of the wording that has been proposed for the Desktop ISO's. It's very clear which ISO the user will most likely need. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
Hi, On 09/05/2013 04:22 AM, pansz wrote: For non-technical user, if 32-bit is the default image, the may wonder why they have a 4GB or 8GB memory computer but they cannot see 4GB memory in ubuntu. Then how do you explain they need 64 bit install media? AFAIK generic kernel has PAE enabled since 12.04, so user will see all RAM present. And for systems without PAE installation is tricky by using non-PAE netboot ISO. -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
A Java applet on the Kubuntu download site could help the users by determening what system they have 32 or 64 bit. But this assumes that they have Java installed. Also there are JavaScript ways to do this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1741933/detect-64-bit-or-32-bit-windows-from-user-agent-or-javascript[1] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1153427/reliably-detecting-os-architecture-in-a-windows-desktop-gadget[2] For example the download page of Google Chrome. Then again, this assumes that this is the PC that the user wants Kubuntu on. Cu stimă, Ovidiu-Florin Bogdan GeekAliens.com[3] On Wednesday 04 September 2013 22:03:31 Scott Kitterman wrote: > pansz wrote: > >+1 for 64-bit. > > > >AMD starts 64-bit from K8 on 2003, Intel starts 64-bit on Core 2 and > >Pentium D (i.e. 2005). > > > >I think the only 32-bit x86 cpu is "1st generation Atom", which should > >be > >very few in the market. New Atom cpu has 64-bit support. > > > >Let's move to 64-bit and give a prompt like this: use 32-bit only if > >you > >cannot boot 64-bit image. > > > > > > > >On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Jonathan Riddell > >wrote: > > > >> Should we follow and recommend 64 bit? > >> > >> My gut feeling is that most people have 64 bit computers now and I > >> trust the foundation team to have done the legwork to verify that. > >So I'm > >> in favour of it. > >> > >> Jonathan > >> > >> - Forwarded message from Dmitrijs Ledkovs > > > >> - > >> > >> Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 11:15:21 +0100 > >> From: Dmitrijs Ledkovs > >> To: ubuntu-release > >> Sender: ubuntu-release-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com > >> Subject: [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on > >the > >> download pages > >> > >> During vUDS we discussed 32 vs 64 bit, in particular what the > >> messaging about the choice should be. The discussion started with > >> outlining available data, and what further data we should be > >> collecting for future analysis. At the moment, neither of the images > >> is compatible with all machines out there (out of the box without > >> modifying any bios/boot options). And we believe that 64-bit image > >has > >> now become more compatible for new installations, and is more > >> advantageous for people to install. > >> > >> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21877/client-s-32v64-bit/ > >> > >> Thus on the download pages starting from 13.10 release the messaging > >> will be adjusted to direct users by default at the 64-bit image, and > >> hints will be given as to when users should select a 32-bit option > >> instead. > >> > >> Similarly I'd like to ask all other flavours to carefully asses their > >> demographic and target audience and potentially also adapt similar > >> messaging strategy on their flavour websites to promote 64-bit images > >> by default. Do note that AMD64-based processor, the Opteron, was > >> released more than 10 years ago in April 2003. > >> > >> Below is the summary of above changes on the ubuntu.com/download > >pages > >> for 13.10: > >> > >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop > >> == > >> > >> In both download boxes (LTS & 13.10): > >> > >> * On the right hand side above the "Choose your flavour" replace: > >> > >> "If you have a PC with the Windows 8 logo or UEFI firmware, choose > >the > >> 64-bit download. Read more" > >> > >> with > >> > >> "If you have an older PC with less than 2GB of memory, choose the > >> 32-bit download." > >> > >> * Update the Choose your flavour drop-downs, with first option - the > >> default: > >> - 64-bit > >> - 32-bit (for machines with less than 2GB RAM) > >> > >> When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. > >> > >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server > >> > >> Match the LTS Choose your flavour drop down to the desktop drop-downs > >> - 64-bit > >> - 32-bit (for servers with less than 2GB RAM) > >> > >> When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. > >> > >> > >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/zh-CN > >> === > >> The warning message on the right & the LTS download box stay the > >same. > >> (The Ubuntu Chinese 12.04.0 LTS does get re-published for point > >> releases, and UEFI support was only introduced in .2 images) > >> > >> The Ubuntu Kylin box, will have the buttons change around: > >> * 64 bit button on top > >> * 32 bit button following below > >> > >> > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Dmitrijs. > >> > >> -- > >> Ubuntu-release mailing list > >> ubuntu-rele...@lists.ubuntu.com > >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release > >> > >> - End forwarded message - > >> > >> -- > >> kubuntu-devel mailing list > >> kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel > >> > > > > > >
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
Il 05/09/2013 03:22, pansz ha scritto: > For non-technical user, if 32-bit is the default image, the may wonder why > they have a 4GB or 8GB memory computer but they cannot see 4GB memory in > ubuntu. > > Then how do you explain they need 64 bit install media? > How about developing a small Windows utility that behaves like SecurAble (an - unfortunately non-free - utility that checks for CPU features [1]) and tells the user if their CPU supports a 64 bit OS? (I think most non-technical users run Windows at the point they try to download Ubuntu for the first time, such an utility would be - in my opinion - the most foolproof way to perform the detection). Alessandro Menti [1] https://www.grc.com/securable.htm -- A neutron walks into a bar and asks how much for a drink. The bartender replies "for you, no charge". -- Sheldon Cooper, The Big Bang Theory -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
pansz wrote: >For non-technical user, if 32-bit is the default image, the may wonder >why >they have a 4GB or 8GB memory computer but they cannot see 4GB memory >in >ubuntu. > >Then how do you explain they need 64 bit install media? > > >On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 10:46 PM, Scott Kitterman >wrote: > >> Jonathan Riddell wrote: >> >Should we follow and recommend 64 bit? >> > >> >My gut feeling is that most people have 64 bit computers now and I >> >trust the foundation team to have done the legwork to verify that. >So >> >I'm in favour of it. >> >> Most do, but there have been stacks of 32 bit only Atom netbooks sold >in >> the last several years. Given that we want to be friendly to >non-technical >> users, I think we should wait. >> >> Try writing out the instructions for a non-technical user to figure >out if >> they need a 32 bit image. I'm not sure how to do it. >> >> I'd suggest we do this for 14.10. >> >> Scott K >> >> >> -- >> kubuntu-devel mailing list >> kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel >> > > > > >-- >kubuntu-devel mailing list >kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel That's easy enough. The amount of RAM is on the box. "If you have 4GB or more of RAM use this (link to the 64 bit image)". That'll also, I think, take care of the Atom 32 question since I don't think they were ever sold with more than 2 GB of RAM. Scott K -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
pansz wrote: >+1 for 64-bit. > >AMD starts 64-bit from K8 on 2003, Intel starts 64-bit on Core 2 and >Pentium D (i.e. 2005). > >I think the only 32-bit x86 cpu is "1st generation Atom", which should >be >very few in the market. New Atom cpu has 64-bit support. > >Let's move to 64-bit and give a prompt like this: use 32-bit only if >you >cannot boot 64-bit image. > > > >On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Jonathan Riddell >wrote: > >> Should we follow and recommend 64 bit? >> >> My gut feeling is that most people have 64 bit computers now and I >> trust the foundation team to have done the legwork to verify that. >So I'm >> in favour of it. >> >> Jonathan >> >> - Forwarded message from Dmitrijs Ledkovs > >> - >> >> Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 11:15:21 +0100 >> From: Dmitrijs Ledkovs >> To: ubuntu-release >> Sender: ubuntu-release-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com >> Subject: [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on >the >> download pages >> >> During vUDS we discussed 32 vs 64 bit, in particular what the >> messaging about the choice should be. The discussion started with >> outlining available data, and what further data we should be >> collecting for future analysis. At the moment, neither of the images >> is compatible with all machines out there (out of the box without >> modifying any bios/boot options). And we believe that 64-bit image >has >> now become more compatible for new installations, and is more >> advantageous for people to install. >> >> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21877/client-s-32v64-bit/ >> >> Thus on the download pages starting from 13.10 release the messaging >> will be adjusted to direct users by default at the 64-bit image, and >> hints will be given as to when users should select a 32-bit option >> instead. >> >> Similarly I'd like to ask all other flavours to carefully asses their >> demographic and target audience and potentially also adapt similar >> messaging strategy on their flavour websites to promote 64-bit images >> by default. Do note that AMD64-based processor, the Opteron, was >> released more than 10 years ago in April 2003. >> >> Below is the summary of above changes on the ubuntu.com/download >pages >> for 13.10: >> >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop >> == >> >> In both download boxes (LTS & 13.10): >> >> * On the right hand side above the "Choose your flavour" replace: >> >> "If you have a PC with the Windows 8 logo or UEFI firmware, choose >the >> 64-bit download. Read more" >> >> with >> >> "If you have an older PC with less than 2GB of memory, choose the >> 32-bit download." >> >> * Update the Choose your flavour drop-downs, with first option - the >> default: >> - 64-bit >> - 32-bit (for machines with less than 2GB RAM) >> >> When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. >> >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server >> >> Match the LTS Choose your flavour drop down to the desktop drop-downs >> - 64-bit >> - 32-bit (for servers with less than 2GB RAM) >> >> When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. >> >> >> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/zh-CN >> === >> The warning message on the right & the LTS download box stay the >same. >> (The Ubuntu Chinese 12.04.0 LTS does get re-published for point >> releases, and UEFI support was only introduced in .2 images) >> >> The Ubuntu Kylin box, will have the buttons change around: >> * 64 bit button on top >> * 32 bit button following below >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Dmitrijs. >> >> -- >> Ubuntu-release mailing list >> ubuntu-rele...@lists.ubuntu.com >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release >> >> - End forwarded message - >> >> -- >> kubuntu-devel mailing list >> kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel >> > > > > >-- >kubuntu-devel mailing list >kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel That's complete gobdlygook to a non-technical user. They won't know what 32 or 64 bits are (and it makes it sound like Kubuntu requires far more technical understanding than they have). Boot may also be an unfamiliar term. It hasn't been that long since Atom 32 was in large scale production. I'd prefer to give Ubuntu a year to go first and work out both technical issues and appropriate messaging. We've had good success with this kind of approach in the past. Scott K -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
For non-technical user, if 32-bit is the default image, the may wonder why they have a 4GB or 8GB memory computer but they cannot see 4GB memory in ubuntu. Then how do you explain they need 64 bit install media? On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 10:46 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: > Jonathan Riddell wrote: > >Should we follow and recommend 64 bit? > > > >My gut feeling is that most people have 64 bit computers now and I > >trust the foundation team to have done the legwork to verify that. So > >I'm in favour of it. > > Most do, but there have been stacks of 32 bit only Atom netbooks sold in > the last several years. Given that we want to be friendly to non-technical > users, I think we should wait. > > Try writing out the instructions for a non-technical user to figure out if > they need a 32 bit image. I'm not sure how to do it. > > I'd suggest we do this for 14.10. > > Scott K > > > -- > kubuntu-devel mailing list > kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel > -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
+1 for 64-bit. AMD starts 64-bit from K8 on 2003, Intel starts 64-bit on Core 2 and Pentium D (i.e. 2005). I think the only 32-bit x86 cpu is "1st generation Atom", which should be very few in the market. New Atom cpu has 64-bit support. Let's move to 64-bit and give a prompt like this: use 32-bit only if you cannot boot 64-bit image. On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > Should we follow and recommend 64 bit? > > My gut feeling is that most people have 64 bit computers now and I > trust the foundation team to have done the legwork to verify that. So I'm > in favour of it. > > Jonathan > > - Forwarded message from Dmitrijs Ledkovs > - > > Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 11:15:21 +0100 > From: Dmitrijs Ledkovs > To: ubuntu-release > Sender: ubuntu-release-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the > download pages > > During vUDS we discussed 32 vs 64 bit, in particular what the > messaging about the choice should be. The discussion started with > outlining available data, and what further data we should be > collecting for future analysis. At the moment, neither of the images > is compatible with all machines out there (out of the box without > modifying any bios/boot options). And we believe that 64-bit image has > now become more compatible for new installations, and is more > advantageous for people to install. > > http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21877/client-s-32v64-bit/ > > Thus on the download pages starting from 13.10 release the messaging > will be adjusted to direct users by default at the 64-bit image, and > hints will be given as to when users should select a 32-bit option > instead. > > Similarly I'd like to ask all other flavours to carefully asses their > demographic and target audience and potentially also adapt similar > messaging strategy on their flavour websites to promote 64-bit images > by default. Do note that AMD64-based processor, the Opteron, was > released more than 10 years ago in April 2003. > > Below is the summary of above changes on the ubuntu.com/download pages > for 13.10: > > http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop > == > > In both download boxes (LTS & 13.10): > > * On the right hand side above the "Choose your flavour" replace: > > "If you have a PC with the Windows 8 logo or UEFI firmware, choose the > 64-bit download. Read more" > > with > > "If you have an older PC with less than 2GB of memory, choose the > 32-bit download." > > * Update the Choose your flavour drop-downs, with first option - the > default: > - 64-bit > - 32-bit (for machines with less than 2GB RAM) > > When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. > > http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server > > Match the LTS Choose your flavour drop down to the desktop drop-downs > - 64-bit > - 32-bit (for servers with less than 2GB RAM) > > When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. > > > http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/zh-CN > === > The warning message on the right & the LTS download box stay the same. > (The Ubuntu Chinese 12.04.0 LTS does get re-published for point > releases, and UEFI support was only introduced in .2 images) > > The Ubuntu Kylin box, will have the buttons change around: > * 64 bit button on top > * 32 bit button following below > > > > Regards, > > Dmitrijs. > > -- > Ubuntu-release mailing list > ubuntu-rele...@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release > > - End forwarded message - > > -- > kubuntu-devel mailing list > kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel > -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
I’ll included that in the official docs as it does seems to be important. The “uname -a” command will give you information about your kernel build which in turn will give you what you need to know. Sent from Windows Mail From: Scott Kitterman Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 10:46 AM To: Kubuntu Developer Discussion Jonathan Riddell wrote: >Should we follow and recommend 64 bit? > >My gut feeling is that most people have 64 bit computers now and I >trust the foundation team to have done the legwork to verify that. So >I'm in favour of it. Most do, but there have been stacks of 32 bit only Atom netbooks sold in the last several years. Given that we want to be friendly to non-technical users, I think we should wait. Try writing out the instructions for a non-technical user to figure out if they need a 32 bit image. I'm not sure how to do it. I'd suggest we do this for 14.10. Scott K -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel-- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
Aaron Honeycutt wrote: >I’ll included that in the official docs as it does seems to be >important. The “uname -a” command will give you information about your >kernel build which in turn will give you what you need to know. > > > >Sent from Windows Mail > > > >From: Scott Kitterman >Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 10:46 AM >To: Kubuntu Developer Discussion > > >Jonathan Riddell wrote: >>Should we follow and recommend 64 bit? >> >>My gut feeling is that most people have 64 bit computers now and I >>trust the foundation team to have done the legwork to verify that. So >>I'm in favour of it. > >Most do, but there have been stacks of 32 bit only Atom netbooks sold >in the last several years. Given that we want to be friendly to >non-technical users, I think we should wait. > >Try writing out the instructions for a non-technical user to figure out >if they need a 32 bit image. I'm not sure how to do it. > >I'd suggest we do this for 14.10. > >Scott K How do you explain they need 32 bit install media? Scott K -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
Jonathan Riddell wrote: >Should we follow and recommend 64 bit? > >My gut feeling is that most people have 64 bit computers now and I >trust the foundation team to have done the legwork to verify that. So >I'm in favour of it. Most do, but there have been stacks of 32 bit only Atom netbooks sold in the last several years. Given that we want to be friendly to non-technical users, I think we should wait. Try writing out the instructions for a non-technical user to figure out if they need a 32 bit image. I'm not sure how to do it. I'd suggest we do this for 14.10. Scott K -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Re: Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
+1 On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > Should we follow and recommend 64 bit? > > My gut feeling is that most people have 64 bit computers now and I > trust the foundation team to have done the legwork to verify that. So I'm > in favour of it. > > Jonathan > > - Forwarded message from Dmitrijs Ledkovs > - > > Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 11:15:21 +0100 > From: Dmitrijs Ledkovs > To: ubuntu-release > Sender: ubuntu-release-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the > download pages > > During vUDS we discussed 32 vs 64 bit, in particular what the > messaging about the choice should be. The discussion started with > outlining available data, and what further data we should be > collecting for future analysis. At the moment, neither of the images > is compatible with all machines out there (out of the box without > modifying any bios/boot options). And we believe that 64-bit image has > now become more compatible for new installations, and is more > advantageous for people to install. > > http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21877/client-s-32v64-bit/ > > Thus on the download pages starting from 13.10 release the messaging > will be adjusted to direct users by default at the 64-bit image, and > hints will be given as to when users should select a 32-bit option > instead. > > Similarly I'd like to ask all other flavours to carefully asses their > demographic and target audience and potentially also adapt similar > messaging strategy on their flavour websites to promote 64-bit images > by default. Do note that AMD64-based processor, the Opteron, was > released more than 10 years ago in April 2003. > > Below is the summary of above changes on the ubuntu.com/download pages > for 13.10: > > http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop > == > > In both download boxes (LTS & 13.10): > > * On the right hand side above the "Choose your flavour" replace: > > "If you have a PC with the Windows 8 logo or UEFI firmware, choose the > 64-bit download. Read more" > > with > > "If you have an older PC with less than 2GB of memory, choose the > 32-bit download." > > * Update the Choose your flavour drop-downs, with first option - the > default: > - 64-bit > - 32-bit (for machines with less than 2GB RAM) > > When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. > > http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server > > Match the LTS Choose your flavour drop down to the desktop drop-downs > - 64-bit > - 32-bit (for servers with less than 2GB RAM) > > When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. > > > http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/zh-CN > === > The warning message on the right & the LTS download box stay the same. > (The Ubuntu Chinese 12.04.0 LTS does get re-published for point > releases, and UEFI support was only introduced in .2 images) > > The Ubuntu Kylin box, will have the buttons change around: > * 64 bit button on top > * 32 bit button following below > > > > Regards, > > Dmitrijs. > > -- > Ubuntu-release mailing list > ubuntu-rele...@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release > > - End forwarded message - > > -- > kubuntu-devel mailing list > kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel > -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
Fwd [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages
Should we follow and recommend 64 bit? My gut feeling is that most people have 64 bit computers now and I trust the foundation team to have done the legwork to verify that. So I'm in favour of it. Jonathan - Forwarded message from Dmitrijs Ledkovs - Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 11:15:21 +0100 From: Dmitrijs Ledkovs To: ubuntu-release Sender: ubuntu-release-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: [ubuntu-release] Please promote 64-bit images by default on the download pages During vUDS we discussed 32 vs 64 bit, in particular what the messaging about the choice should be. The discussion started with outlining available data, and what further data we should be collecting for future analysis. At the moment, neither of the images is compatible with all machines out there (out of the box without modifying any bios/boot options). And we believe that 64-bit image has now become more compatible for new installations, and is more advantageous for people to install. http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21877/client-s-32v64-bit/ Thus on the download pages starting from 13.10 release the messaging will be adjusted to direct users by default at the 64-bit image, and hints will be given as to when users should select a 32-bit option instead. Similarly I'd like to ask all other flavours to carefully asses their demographic and target audience and potentially also adapt similar messaging strategy on their flavour websites to promote 64-bit images by default. Do note that AMD64-based processor, the Opteron, was released more than 10 years ago in April 2003. Below is the summary of above changes on the ubuntu.com/download pages for 13.10: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop == In both download boxes (LTS & 13.10): * On the right hand side above the "Choose your flavour" replace: "If you have a PC with the Windows 8 logo or UEFI firmware, choose the 64-bit download. Read more" with "If you have an older PC with less than 2GB of memory, choose the 32-bit download." * Update the Choose your flavour drop-downs, with first option - the default: - 64-bit - 32-bit (for machines with less than 2GB RAM) When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server Match the LTS Choose your flavour drop down to the desktop drop-downs - 64-bit - 32-bit (for servers with less than 2GB RAM) When the drop-down is expanded, 64-bit should be listed first. http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/zh-CN === The warning message on the right & the LTS download box stay the same. (The Ubuntu Chinese 12.04.0 LTS does get re-published for point releases, and UEFI support was only introduced in .2 images) The Ubuntu Kylin box, will have the buttons change around: * 64 bit button on top * 32 bit button following below Regards, Dmitrijs. -- Ubuntu-release mailing list ubuntu-rele...@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release - End forwarded message - -- kubuntu-devel mailing list kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
