[libreoffice-l10n] L10n compatibility with Apache OO

[Baurzhan Muftakhidinov]

Good morning,

I am the main translator of LibreOffice to Kazakh language.

I also want to import my work (Kazakh translation) to Apache OO (in the future).

Can I just take and upload it there? What about license,
I mean I have already contributed my work to LO, and it is
under LGPLv3 and MPL now. Is it compatible with Apache OO?

Thanks,

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Wikihelp/Help Wiki/Online Help/etc... needs one clear name

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
+1
I think we are all aiming at unambiguous, consistent terms.  Sophie's
3 suggestions and their separation seem to achieve the objective.  Can
we stick with that?

I think the confusion arises because the help is also available as a
wiki but even so it might be best to avoid calling that "the wiki" and
maybe use something like "the help wiki"(?) instead.  I don't really
have a good suggestion for it and haven't thought about it much.
Hopefully someone gives an idea that we all think is obvious after
they have suggested it.

Btw thanks Robinson for realising what i meant and putting it so much
more clearly.  I hadn't got as far as thinking about internal/external
and i think those terms are unclear anyway.  Like the "local" it can
easily get confusing, for example in ssh hopping the one i'm thinking
of as local might be a remote machine.
Regards from
Tom :)



On 14 November 2013 22:28, Robinson Tryon  wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Sophie Gautier
>  wrote:
>>
>> There use to be some non ambiguous terms:

>> help for help files
>> support for support
>> guides, how-to, faq... for documentation

>> This is still the used terms for a lot of users whatever the localization.
>> Why not fit to that?
>
> +1
>
> My big focus is standardization. I just want to have one consistent
> name across the board.
>

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Untranslated strings in verson 4.1

[Robinson Tryon]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Olivier Hallot
 wrote:
> Em 14-11-2013 19:16, Andras Timar escreveu:
>> Well, these strings have been there since 2002, and nobody cared, if
>> they were localized. :) I would leave them alone.
>
> I don't follow you... It hurts when I show LibreOffice capabilities and
> I step into an untranslated dialog. This is not good for LibreOffice.

I think Andras' point was that we could probably punt (until the next
cycle) the addition of translations for strings rarely seen by
end-users; string- and code-freezes help us to keep our sanity :-)

--R

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Wikihelp/Help Wiki/Online Help/etc... needs one clear name

[Robinson Tryon]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Sophie Gautier
 wrote:
>
> There use to be some non ambiguous terms:
> help for help files
> support for support
> guides, how-to, faq... for documentation
> This is still the used terms for a lot of users whatever the localization.
> Why not fit to that?

+1

My big focus is standardization. I just want to have one consistent
name across the board.

>> ... The term "help" is used all over the place --
>> we even have a jumping-off page called "get-help":
>> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help
>
> Which would be /get-support
> I don't want to minimize what the help files are, I know several countries
> without connection where it's the only documentation, for other countries,
> these files are the only legal documentation we can provide. For most of the
> users 'help' is understood as the help files shipping with the product. I
> won't change that but the other terms we use on the site, etc...

Yep, sounds good to me :-)

--R

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Untranslated strings in verson 4.1

[Olivier Hallot]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Andras

Em 14-11-2013 19:16, Andras Timar escreveu:
> Well, these strings have been there since 2002, and nobody cared, if
> they were localized. :) I would leave them alone.
> 
> Cheers,
> Andras

I don't follow you... It hurts when I show LibreOffice capabilities and
I step into an untranslated dialog. This is not good for LibreOffice.
- -- 
Olivier Hallot
Founder, Board of Directors Member - The Document Foundation
The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 - Berlin, Germany
Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
LibreOffice translation leader for Brazilian Portuguese
+55-21-8822-8812
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Wikihelp/Help Wiki/Online Help/etc... needs one clear name

[Sophie Gautier]

Le 14 nov. 2013 23:01, "Robinson Tryon"  a écrit
:
>
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Martin Srebotnjak 
wrote:
> > Ok, got it. But Quick is really not necessary, isn't "LibreOffice Help"
or
> > just "Help" (where Help gets localized) enough?
>
> Personally, I think the term "Help" or "LibreOffice Help" is
> ambiguous. I wish there were a term for
> those-help-files-included-in-an-application, but I don't think one
> exists :-)
>
> I think the reason that we've referred to this particular resource
> using so many different terms (per my original email) is *precisely*
> because the term 'Help' is so generic. People don't want to leave it
> naked, and so try to add descriptive terms to it in order to inform
> the user and guide him to the proper content.

There use to be some non ambiguous terms:
help for help files
support for support
guides, how-to, faq... for documentation
This is still the used terms for a lot of users whatever the localization.
Why not fit to that?
>
> > Branding something with a very special name that should be a part of
every
> > serious office suite is strange.
> > Next we will rebrand "dialogs" with "NiceDialogs" and "context menus"
with
> > "HelpfulContextMenus"?
>
> The terms "dialog" and "context menu" are extremely unambiguous in the
> context of LibreOffice. The term "help" is used all over the place --
> we even have a jumping-off page called "get-help":
> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help

Which would be /get-support
I don't want to minimize what the help files are, I know several countries
without connection where it's the only documentation, for other countries,
these files are the only legal documentation we can provide. For most of
the users 'help' is understood as the help files shipping with the product.
I won't change that but the other terms we use on the site, etc...
Kind regards
Sophie

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Wikihelp/Help Wiki/Online Help/etc... needs one clear name

[Robinson Tryon]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Martin Srebotnjak  wrote:
> Ok, got it. But Quick is really not necessary, isn't "LibreOffice Help" or
> just "Help" (where Help gets localized) enough?

Personally, I think the term "Help" or "LibreOffice Help" is
ambiguous. I wish there were a term for
those-help-files-included-in-an-application, but I don't think one
exists :-)

I think the reason that we've referred to this particular resource
using so many different terms (per my original email) is *precisely*
because the term 'Help' is so generic. People don't want to leave it
naked, and so try to add descriptive terms to it in order to inform
the user and guide him to the proper content.

> Branding something with a very special name that should be a part of every
> serious office suite is strange.
> Next we will rebrand "dialogs" with "NiceDialogs" and "context menus" with
> "HelpfulContextMenus"?

The terms "dialog" and "context menu" are extremely unambiguous in the
context of LibreOffice. The term "help" is used all over the place --
we even have a jumping-off page called "get-help":
https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help

--R

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Wikihelp/Help Wiki/Online Help/etc... needs one clear name

[Sophie Gautier]

Hi all,
Le 14 nov. 2013 22:45, "Martin Srebotnjak"  a écrit :
>
> Ok, got it. But Quick is really not necessary, isn't "LibreOffice Help"
or just "Help" (where Help gets localized) enough?
+1
> Branding something with a very special name that should be a part of
every serious office suite is strange.
> Next we will rebrand "dialogs" with "NiceDialogs" and "context menus"
with "HelpfulContextMenus"?
lol!
Sophie
GSM

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Wikihelp/Help Wiki/Online Help/etc... needs one clear name

[Martin Srebotnjak]

Ok, got it. But Quick is really not necessary, isn't "LibreOffice Help" or
just "Help" (where Help gets localized) enough?
Branding something with a very special name that should be a part of every
serious office suite is strange.
Next we will rebrand "dialogs" with "NiceDialogs" and "context menus" with
"HelpfulContextMenus"?

Lp, m.


2013/11/14 Robinson Tryon 

> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Martin Srebotnjak 
> wrote:
> > Today wiki or embedded help are both quick (unless one uses a phone line
> > and a modem for Internet access) and contain same information, so naming
> > one Quick would really not help differentiating them, I guess.
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> I think Tom's suggestion was that we use the term "QuickHelp"
> (localized) to refer to the content, and use terms like
> "internal"/"external" to refer to their location vis-a-vis the user's
> system.
>
> e.g.
> If I access the QuickHelp locally on my (en-US) system, it would be
> branded/referred to as "Internal QuickHelp". If I access it online, it
> would be "External QuickHelp".
>
> If Sophie access the QuickHelp locally on her FR system, it could be
> branded/referred to as "AideRapide Interne", and online as AideRapide
> Externe".
>
> Cheers,
> --R
>

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Wikihelp/Help Wiki/Online Help/etc... needs one clear name

[Robinson Tryon]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Martin Srebotnjak  wrote:
> Today wiki or embedded help are both quick (unless one uses a phone line
> and a modem for Internet access) and contain same information, so naming
> one Quick would really not help differentiating them, I guess.

Hi Martin,

I think Tom's suggestion was that we use the term "QuickHelp"
(localized) to refer to the content, and use terms like
"internal"/"external" to refer to their location vis-a-vis the user's
system.

e.g.
If I access the QuickHelp locally on my (en-US) system, it would be
branded/referred to as "Internal QuickHelp". If I access it online, it
would be "External QuickHelp".

If Sophie access the QuickHelp locally on her FR system, it could be
branded/referred to as "AideRapide Interne", and online as AideRapide
Externe".

Cheers,
--R

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Untranslated strings in verson 4.1

[Martin Srebotnjak]

No, I do not use Pootle, I use my own localization system that I fed with
the October 2 and November 6 state of pot files in the 4.2.

So I guess Pootle will get these pot files in about a week, after 4.2 beta1
is released.

Lp, m.


2013/11/14 Olivier Hallot 

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Thanks Sophie...
>
> But I think we must put these strings in pootle for version 4.1, as the
> feature is already there.
>
> We had recently a call to translate new 4.1 strings on a extraordinary
> post-string-freeze, and I think we should also translate this dialog.
>
> On a side note, I had not yet seen the call for translation for version
> 4.2. Did I missed it?
>
> Regards
>
> Olivier
>
> Em 14-11-2013 19:00, Sophie Gautier escreveu:
> > Hi Olivier
> > We (FR) have noticed it and one of our members has committed a patch for
> > it that was accepted today. So it will be available for 4.2 (merci
> > Laurent and Caolan :-)
> > Kind regards
> > Sophie
> >
> > GSM
> >
> > Le 14 nov. 2013 21:50, "Olivier Hallot"
> >  > > a écrit :
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > I found that pt-BR has a dialog with unstranslated strings.
> >
> > The dialog is under Impress: File->Export->Export to Macromedia
> > Flash (SWF)
> >
> > This dialog contains settings for the SWF file.
> >
> > Is pt-BR the only language with this issue?
> >
> > Also, I looked for the word "Verilogix" inside my UI strings and did not
> > found any. Had we missed to upload these string to pootle in the past?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> >
> > --
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> > 
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> >
>
> - --
> Olivier Hallot
> Founder, Board of Directors Member - The Document Foundation
> The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 - Berlin, Germany
> Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
> Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
> LibreOffice translation leader for Brazilian Portuguese
> +55-21-8822-8812
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Wikihelp/Help Wiki/Online Help/etc... needs one clear name

[Martin Srebotnjak]

Today wiki or embedded help are both quick (unless one uses a phone line
and a modem for Internet access) and contain same information, so naming
one Quick would really not help differentiating them, I guess.

Lp, m.


2013/11/14 Tom Davies 

> Hi :)
> I like combining parts of those last 2 ideas but i'm not sure if it
> would work.  Is the idea of "Quick Help" easy to translate into French
> or anything else?
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
> On 14 November 2013 19:29, Sophie  wrote:
> > Hi Robinson, all,
> > Le 14/11/2013 20:09, Robinson Tryon a écrit :
> >> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 5:45 AM, Martin Srebotnjak 
> wrote:
> >>> I am looking at it from l10n perspective. "Online help" in most
> languages
> >>> means help online, on the web. While it is actually meant as
> >>> embedded/"inline"/offline help. So I just hope all translators
> translated it
> >>> properly. So maybe English names for it should be chosen carefully
> also for
> >>> non-native English speakers.
> >>
> >> Yes, I agree completely that the name should try to avoid confusion in
> >> other languages.
> >>
> >> Perhaps it would be more clear if we treat the name as a proper noun,
> >> the way we do with 'LibreOffice', and not translate it. So
> >> "LibreOffice QuickHelp is available online or as a downloadable
> >> add-on" would become (in my very poor French) "On se trouve <<
> >> LibreOffice QuickHelp >> en ligne ou on peut le telecharger".
> >
> > I'm afraid that won't work, users will takes it as an obscure extension
> > they don't even understand the name ;)
> > I like Martin proposal for 'internal/external', this is referring to the
> > same thing while one embedded and one in another place.
> > Others, what's your idea?
> > Kind regards
> > Sophie
> >
> >
> > --
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Untranslated strings in verson 4.1

[Andras Timar]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Olivier Hallot
 wrote:
> But I think we must put these strings in pootle for version 4.1, as the
> feature is already there.
>
> We had recently a call to translate new 4.1 strings on a extraordinary
> post-string-freeze, and I think we should also translate this dialog.

Well, these strings have been there since 2002, and nobody cared, if
they were localized. :) I would leave them alone.

Cheers,
Andras

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Wikihelp/Help Wiki/Online Help/etc... needs one clear name

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I like combining parts of those last 2 ideas but i'm not sure if it
would work.  Is the idea of "Quick Help" easy to translate into French
or anything else?
Regards from
Tom :)

On 14 November 2013 19:29, Sophie  wrote:
> Hi Robinson, all,
> Le 14/11/2013 20:09, Robinson Tryon a écrit :
>> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 5:45 AM, Martin Srebotnjak  wrote:
>>> I am looking at it from l10n perspective. "Online help" in most languages
>>> means help online, on the web. While it is actually meant as
>>> embedded/"inline"/offline help. So I just hope all translators translated it
>>> properly. So maybe English names for it should be chosen carefully also for
>>> non-native English speakers.
>>
>> Yes, I agree completely that the name should try to avoid confusion in
>> other languages.
>>
>> Perhaps it would be more clear if we treat the name as a proper noun,
>> the way we do with 'LibreOffice', and not translate it. So
>> "LibreOffice QuickHelp is available online or as a downloadable
>> add-on" would become (in my very poor French) "On se trouve <<
>> LibreOffice QuickHelp >> en ligne ou on peut le telecharger".
>
> I'm afraid that won't work, users will takes it as an obscure extension
> they don't even understand the name ;)
> I like Martin proposal for 'internal/external', this is referring to the
> same thing while one embedded and one in another place.
> Others, what's your idea?
> Kind regards
> Sophie
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Untranslated strings in verson 4.1

[Olivier Hallot]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Thanks Sophie...

But I think we must put these strings in pootle for version 4.1, as the
feature is already there.

We had recently a call to translate new 4.1 strings on a extraordinary
post-string-freeze, and I think we should also translate this dialog.

On a side note, I had not yet seen the call for translation for version
4.2. Did I missed it?

Regards

Olivier

Em 14-11-2013 19:00, Sophie Gautier escreveu:
> Hi Olivier
> We (FR) have noticed it and one of our members has committed a patch for
> it that was accepted today. So it will be available for 4.2 (merci
> Laurent and Caolan :-)
> Kind regards
> Sophie
> 
> GSM
> 
> Le 14 nov. 2013 21:50, "Olivier Hallot"
>  > a écrit :
> 
> Hello
> 
> I found that pt-BR has a dialog with unstranslated strings.
> 
> The dialog is under Impress: File->Export->Export to Macromedia
> Flash (SWF)
> 
> This dialog contains settings for the SWF file.
> 
> Is pt-BR the only language with this issue?
> 
> Also, I looked for the word "Verilogix" inside my UI strings and did not
> found any. Had we missed to upload these string to pootle in the past?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
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- -- 
Olivier Hallot
Founder, Board of Directors Member - The Document Foundation
The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 - Berlin, Germany
Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
LibreOffice translation leader for Brazilian Portuguese
+55-21-8822-8812
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Untranslated strings in verson 4.1

[Sophie Gautier]

Hi Olivier
We (FR) have noticed it and one of our members has committed a patch for it
that was accepted today. So it will be available for 4.2 (merci Laurent and
Caolan :-)
Kind regards
Sophie

GSM
Le 14 nov. 2013 21:50, "Olivier Hallot" <
olivier.hal...@documentfoundation.org> a écrit :

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hello
>
> I found that pt-BR has a dialog with unstranslated strings.
>
> The dialog is under Impress: File->Export->Export to Macromedia Flash (SWF)
>
> This dialog contains settings for the SWF file.
>
> Is pt-BR the only language with this issue?
>
> Also, I looked for the word "Verilogix" inside my UI strings and did not
> found any. Had we missed to upload these string to pootle in the past?
>
> Cheers
>
> - --
> Olivier Hallot
> Founder, Board of Directors Member - The Document Foundation
> The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 - Berlin, Germany
> Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
> Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
> LibreOffice translation leader for Brazilian Portuguese
> +55-21-8822-8812
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
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> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Untranslated strings in verson 4.1

[Martin Srebotnjak]

The Verilogix string appears in the new strings for 4.2, I think (as far as
I remember translating it).

Lp, m.


2013/11/14 Olivier Hallot 

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hello
>
> I found that pt-BR has a dialog with unstranslated strings.
>
> The dialog is under Impress: File->Export->Export to Macromedia Flash (SWF)
>
> This dialog contains settings for the SWF file.
>
> Is pt-BR the only language with this issue?
>
> Also, I looked for the word "Verilogix" inside my UI strings and did not
> found any. Had we missed to upload these string to pootle in the past?
>
> Cheers
>
> - --
> Olivier Hallot
> Founder, Board of Directors Member - The Document Foundation
> The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 - Berlin, Germany
> Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
> Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
> LibreOffice translation leader for Brazilian Portuguese
> +55-21-8822-8812
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
>
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> =2lC9
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
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[libreoffice-l10n] Untranslated strings in verson 4.1

[Olivier Hallot]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello

I found that pt-BR has a dialog with unstranslated strings.

The dialog is under Impress: File->Export->Export to Macromedia Flash (SWF)

This dialog contains settings for the SWF file.

Is pt-BR the only language with this issue?

Also, I looked for the word "Verilogix" inside my UI strings and did not
found any. Had we missed to upload these string to pootle in the past?

Cheers

- -- 
Olivier Hallot
Founder, Board of Directors Member - The Document Foundation
The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 - Berlin, Germany
Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
LibreOffice translation leader for Brazilian Portuguese
+55-21-8822-8812
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

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=2lC9
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Wikihelp/Help Wiki/Online Help/etc... needs one clear name

[Sophie]

Hi Robinson, all,
Le 14/11/2013 20:09, Robinson Tryon a écrit :
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 5:45 AM, Martin Srebotnjak  wrote:
>> I am looking at it from l10n perspective. "Online help" in most languages
>> means help online, on the web. While it is actually meant as
>> embedded/"inline"/offline help. So I just hope all translators translated it
>> properly. So maybe English names for it should be chosen carefully also for
>> non-native English speakers.
> 
> Yes, I agree completely that the name should try to avoid confusion in
> other languages.
> 
> Perhaps it would be more clear if we treat the name as a proper noun,
> the way we do with 'LibreOffice', and not translate it. So
> "LibreOffice QuickHelp is available online or as a downloadable
> add-on" would become (in my very poor French) "On se trouve <<
> LibreOffice QuickHelp >> en ligne ou on peut le telecharger".

I'm afraid that won't work, users will takes it as an obscure extension
they don't even understand the name ;)
I like Martin proposal for 'internal/external', this is referring to the
same thing while one embedded and one in another place.
Others, what's your idea?
Kind regards
Sophie


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Wikihelp/Help Wiki/Online Help/etc... needs one clear name

[Robinson Tryon]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 5:45 AM, Martin Srebotnjak  wrote:
> I am looking at it from l10n perspective. "Online help" in most languages
> means help online, on the web. While it is actually meant as
> embedded/"inline"/offline help. So I just hope all translators translated it
> properly. So maybe English names for it should be chosen carefully also for
> non-native English speakers.

Yes, I agree completely that the name should try to avoid confusion in
other languages.

Perhaps it would be more clear if we treat the name as a proper noun,
the way we do with 'LibreOffice', and not translate it. So
"LibreOffice QuickHelp is available online or as a downloadable
add-on" would become (in my very poor French) "On se trouve <<
LibreOffice QuickHelp >> en ligne ou on peut le telecharger".

Cheers,
--R

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Wikihelp/Help Wiki/Online Help/etc... needs one clear name

[Martin Srebotnjak]

I am looking at it from l10n perspective. "Online help" in most languages
means help online, on the web. While it is actually meant as
embedded/"inline"/offline help. So I just hope all translators translated
it properly. So maybe English names for it should be chosen carefully also
for non-native English speakers.

Lp, m.


2013/11/14 Robinson Tryon 

> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 3:37 AM, Martin Srebotnjak 
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > "online help" refers to built-in help and the term is not very telling.
> > Technically speaking I would think more of something like "embedded" or
> > "included" or whatever the proper English word might be. "local" is very
> > strange, especially if one day LO will become also a webservice. It will
> not
> > be "local" but it will be part of the package, "embedded"; if it won't be
> > there, there will probably be linking to the wiki, I guess.
> > "internal"/"external"?
>
> I think that the dichotomy between local (included, embedded,
> built-in, offline, internal) help and online (remote, external) help
> is mostly clear to the users, although perhaps we could choose those
> words more carefully.
>
> I would like to see a unique name for this online/offline assistance
> beyond just "Help". I'd recommend a name that we can use to brand this
> resource so that users will identify it whether it's built-in to
> LibreOffice or whether it's being accessed online -- something like
> "Help Pages", "QuickHelp", "LibreHelp", or etc...
>
> Cheers,
> --R
>

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Wikihelp/Help Wiki/Online Help/etc... needs one clear name

[Robinson Tryon]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 3:37 AM, Martin Srebotnjak  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> "online help" refers to built-in help and the term is not very telling.
> Technically speaking I would think more of something like "embedded" or
> "included" or whatever the proper English word might be. "local" is very
> strange, especially if one day LO will become also a webservice. It will not
> be "local" but it will be part of the package, "embedded"; if it won't be
> there, there will probably be linking to the wiki, I guess.
> "internal"/"external"?

I think that the dichotomy between local (included, embedded,
built-in, offline, internal) help and online (remote, external) help
is mostly clear to the users, although perhaps we could choose those
words more carefully.

I would like to see a unique name for this online/offline assistance
beyond just "Help". I'd recommend a name that we can use to brand this
resource so that users will identify it whether it's built-in to
LibreOffice or whether it's being accessed online -- something like
"Help Pages", "QuickHelp", "LibreHelp", or etc...

Cheers,
--R

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Wikihelp/Help Wiki/Online Help/etc... needs one clear name

[Martin Srebotnjak]

Hi,

"online help" refers to built-in help and the term is not very telling.
Technically speaking I would think more of something like "embedded" or
"included" or whatever the proper English word might be. "local" is very
strange, especially if one day LO will become also a webservice. It will
not be "local" but it will be part of the package, "embedded"; if it won't
be there, there will probably be linking to the wiki, I guess.
"internal"/"external"?

Lp, m.


2013/11/14 Robinson Tryon 

> [Sophie suggested that I ping this list regarding the Wiki Help...]
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been doing some QA prep work for our upcoming Bugzilla migration
> and I've noticed that we have a few different names for the same
> online help/wiki resource, and that's confusing. I suggest that we
> pick one name and standardize on it everywhere.
>
> Here are a sampling of some of the names and examples of their use:
>
> => Wikhelp/WIKIHELP
>
> This one is used on the wiki and in the bugtracker:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Wikihelp
>
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Bugzilla/Components/Documentation/Extended_Help
>
> => Wiki Help
>
> This one is in the Template:Menu on the wiki:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Template:Menu
>
> => The Help Wiki
>
> Mentioned in the blurb for the 'Documentation' component in Bugzilla:
>
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=LibreOffice&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&component=Documentation
>
> => Online Help
>
> This name is given on the wiki, alongside "Wikihelp":
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Web_Sites_services
>
> => LibreOffice Help
>
> The menu option in LibreOffice itself (Help -> LibreOffice Help).
>
> The help site itself (main page) in the form "LibreOffice Help" and
> "Welcome to LibreOffice Help!"
>
> => LibreOffice Application Help
>
> This help site itself (main page) - "Thank you for using the
> LibreOffice application help"
>
> ---
>
> One of the issues with the term 'wiki' is that it's very generic. We
> have our "regular" wiki at wiki.documentfoundation.org, but we don't
> call it the TDF wiki or the LibreOffice Wiki[1], we just call it "the
> wiki," which makes the term "Wikihelp" slightly more ambiguous,
> especially for newcomers to the project.
>
> Some people might think the name "Wikihelp" refers to help for our
> wiki. Some might guess from the name that it's a generally-editable
> wiki. But neither are true.
>
> The term "Online Help" avoids the term "wiki," but I feel like it
> could be a bit more descriptive. A couple of ideas off the top of my
> head:
> * Online Help Pages
> * Online Help Reference
>
> Because we use the same content to generate the local help, it would
> behoove us to choose a name that conveys that connection, e.g.
>
>   Online Help Pages -> Local Help Pages
>
> We want users to instantly recognize that what they're looking at
> online is related to what they have available inside LibreOffice (and
> vice-versa). We could further emphasize that connection by
> differentiating the names in logos/etc:
>
>   ONLINE Help Pages -> LOCAL Help Pages
>
> In LibreOffice itself, the menu option could be "LibreOffice Help Pages."
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> --R
>
> [1] To be fair, the front page of the wiki does say "Welcome to the
> wiki of The Document Foundation", however I've heard "LibreOffice
> Wiki", "TDF Wiki", and "the Wiki", with the last term being the most
> prevalent.
>
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