Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Follow-up on en_US changes
IMO bad quality of English strings can be improved by having some l10m teams work on Master (and spotting these bad strings early enough), and that is being discussed in parallel. Also, perhaps requiring string reviews on patches with new or changed strings could be an option. I'm pretty sure we could find someone to gladly do these reviews within the community. :-) Rimas On 2014 m. gruodis 4 d. 08:06:12 EET, Yury Tarasievich wrote: >I may be completely misunderstanding this, but >it seems to me the point is the en_US strings >should be translations as well. That would put >much needed damper on the changes introduced >"just because they can be introduced". As a >secondary gain, translations are (hopefully) >created by folks with at least some native >language preparation; right now "master" strings >"which anybody can write" -- as I know from my >own practice and from this list -- may be >awkward in expression and/or convoluted in >meaning (fixing which creates more work for >everybody). > >Yury > >On 12/04/2014 02:58 AM, Jesper Hertel wrote: >> 2014-12-01 14:57 GMT+01:00 Sophie : >... >>> Some changes are necessary and the en_US version has to be >maintained >>> too but that shouldn't have an impact or at least, as limited as >>> possible on the l10n work. >> I do believe discussing the English strings are somewhat related to >the >> translation of them, so maybe because of that I fail to see a very >sharp >> division between them and the localization. The English strings are, >in >> principle, also a type of localization, I would say. They just have a >much >> higher authority, as they become the authoritative source for the >rest of >> the localizations. >... > >Yury > >-- >To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? >http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: >http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be >deleted -- Rimas -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Follow-up on en_US changes
I may be completely misunderstanding this, but it seems to me the point is the en_US strings should be translations as well. That would put much needed damper on the changes introduced "just because they can be introduced". As a secondary gain, translations are (hopefully) created by folks with at least some native language preparation; right now "master" strings "which anybody can write" -- as I know from my own practice and from this list -- may be awkward in expression and/or convoluted in meaning (fixing which creates more work for everybody). Yury On 12/04/2014 02:58 AM, Jesper Hertel wrote: 2014-12-01 14:57 GMT+01:00 Sophie : ... Some changes are necessary and the en_US version has to be maintained too but that shouldn't have an impact or at least, as limited as possible on the l10n work. I do believe discussing the English strings are somewhat related to the translation of them, so maybe because of that I fail to see a very sharp division between them and the localization. The English strings are, in principle, also a type of localization, I would say. They just have a much higher authority, as they become the authoritative source for the rest of the localizations. ... Yury -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Follow-up on en_US changes
Bonsoir Sophie, 2014-12-01 14:57 GMT+01:00 Sophie : > Hi all, > > Opening a new thread on the changes on the en_US version, I propose to > follow-up on the project@ list so we could associate the developers and > design teams and discuss together how to handle that in our workflow. > Some changes are necessary and the en_US version has to be maintained > too but that shouldn't have an impact or at least, as limited as > possible on the l10n work. > For some reason I don't completely catch what you are saying, but I guess it is something along the lines that we should have a specific discussion forum for the en_US (American English, the "original" text) version? Or maybe a discussion about whether we should have a separate discussion forum? I do believe discussing the English strings are somewhat related to the translation of them, so maybe because of that I fail to see a very sharp division between them and the localization. The English strings are, in principle, also a type of localization, I would say. They just have a much higher authority, as they become the authoritative source for the rest of the localizations. > > I'm not sure it's the good moment to open the discussion now because we > are all catching dead lines, Yeah, and maybe what I wrote above is in some way also part of that discussion that we probably should not take now? If so, you don't have to respond to my comment now. > but I propose to do it Does "do it" mean start the discussion, or are you referring to something else? > on week 2 next year, > after the hard code freeze for 4.4.0. Is it ok for you all? Fine with me. :-) > if yes, I'll open a ticket on Redmine. > > Très bien, Sophie! > Cheers > Sophie > Santé Jesper -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master
For me (Portuguese) it´s fine as is. I know that from time to time. we have a lot of work. But I prefer that way. Master strings, as Mihovil said, has many changes all the time. I prefer to do the work one time only. Regards 2014-12-03 17:27 GMT+00:00 Sophie : > Hi all, > > Another follow-up on the discussion we had, who would be interested to > have a translation workflow based on master? > > To understand, that would mean that a new project named 'master' will be > created on Pootle. Once a month, Cloph will extract the strings from > Pootle to the source code. The main translation work will happen on this > project with a timeframe of about 6 month to do the work. When a new > version is branched off, the master translations would be used to create > a release branch project. > > Note that if you fix something in master project, it won't automatically > end up in the existing release branch-translations, you will have to fix > it these projects too. But the rule of no addition of strings will still > apply for developers, so there will be few changes and minor corrections > here. > > What is your opinion on that? > Cheers > Sophie > > -- > Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org > Tel:+33683901545 > Co-founder - Release coordinator > The Document Foundation > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- Sérgio Marques -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master
Hi Sophie On 03/12/2014 15:27, Sophie wrote: > Hi all, (snip) > What is your opinion on that? > Cheers > Sophie > I am for it. +1 -- Olivier Hallot Comunidade LibreOffice http://ask.libreoffice.org/pt-br -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master
I have same ability to translate com-central on mozilla repositories, but I never use it. It's too unstable and a lot of changes. If someone thinks it will be useful for him, you can implement it, but I know I won't use it. Best regards, Mihovil 3.12.2014. u 18:27, Sophie je napisao/la: Hi all, Another follow-up on the discussion we had, who would be interested to have a translation workflow based on master? To understand, that would mean that a new project named 'master' will be created on Pootle. Once a month, Cloph will extract the strings from Pootle to the source code. The main translation work will happen on this project with a timeframe of about 6 month to do the work. When a new version is branched off, the master translations would be used to create a release branch project. Note that if you fix something in master project, it won't automatically end up in the existing release branch-translations, you will have to fix it these projects too. But the rule of no addition of strings will still apply for developers, so there will be few changes and minor corrections here. What is your opinion on that? Cheers Sophie -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] @Pootle developers... and it can help us here
Er, you mean offline translation? Of course it supports offline translations. On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 6:30 PM, Sophie wrote: > Hi, > Le 03/12/2014 18:27, khagaroth a écrit : > > Yep, Pootle is too fragile in my experience. I personally prefer Weblate. > > Its development was started exactly because Pootle was too buggy and it > > turned out to be a more than adequate replacement. And the direct > > integration into git/mercurial is just cool. > > But Weblate is web only, so it's a no-go for us. > Cheers > Sophie > > > -- > Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org > Tel:+33683901545 > Co-founder - Release coordinator > The Document Foundation > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] @Pootle developers... and it can help us here
Hi, Le 03/12/2014 18:27, khagaroth a écrit : > Yep, Pootle is too fragile in my experience. I personally prefer Weblate. > Its development was started exactly because Pootle was too buggy and it > turned out to be a more than adequate replacement. And the direct > integration into git/mercurial is just cool. But Weblate is web only, so it's a no-go for us. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Workflow based on master
Hi all, Another follow-up on the discussion we had, who would be interested to have a translation workflow based on master? To understand, that would mean that a new project named 'master' will be created on Pootle. Once a month, Cloph will extract the strings from Pootle to the source code. The main translation work will happen on this project with a timeframe of about 6 month to do the work. When a new version is branched off, the master translations would be used to create a release branch project. Note that if you fix something in master project, it won't automatically end up in the existing release branch-translations, you will have to fix it these projects too. But the rule of no addition of strings will still apply for developers, so there will be few changes and minor corrections here. What is your opinion on that? Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] @Pootle developers... and it can help us here
Yep, Pootle is too fragile in my experience. I personally prefer Weblate. Its development was started exactly because Pootle was too buggy and it turned out to be a more than adequate replacement. And the direct integration into git/mercurial is just cool. On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Sérgio Marques wrote: > 2014-12-03 9:46 GMT+00:00 Sophie : > > > Hi Olivier, > > Le 03/12/2014 10:37, Olivier Hallot a écrit : > > > I opened an enhancement suggestion to Pootle that may be of our > interest > > > & collaboration > > > > > > http://github.com/translate/pootle/issues/3400 > > > > > Thanks for this enhancement request, it's a nice one :) > > For information, I've joined the team directly and the Amagama server > > should be updated next week meaning that suggestions on Pootle and > > Virtaal will be LibreOffice ones and no more old OpenOffice.org ones. > > > > After that, I'll try to have our Pootle instance upgraded to the new > > version. There are several things they have to check before to make sure > > we don't loose previous functionality. > > > > Please be very sure that all works fine. I´m also translating lxde on their > pootle instance and I must say that works worse than what we have now in > LibO. > > Mainly the problems are related with statistics not being updated and it is > showing words and sentences needing translating/review poorly. For > instance, a component is missing x translations. When we click on that x > number, we get "No results found". This could be misleading, especially in > LibO project beacause ot its size. > > > Regards > > > > > > > Cheers > > Sophie > > -- > > Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org > > Tel:+33683901545 > > Co-founder - Release coordinator > > The Document Foundation > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > > Problems? > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > > deleted > > > > > > > -- > Sérgio Marques > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] @Pootle developers... and it can help us here
2014-12-03 9:46 GMT+00:00 Sophie : > Hi Olivier, > Le 03/12/2014 10:37, Olivier Hallot a écrit : > > I opened an enhancement suggestion to Pootle that may be of our interest > > & collaboration > > > > http://github.com/translate/pootle/issues/3400 > > > Thanks for this enhancement request, it's a nice one :) > For information, I've joined the team directly and the Amagama server > should be updated next week meaning that suggestions on Pootle and > Virtaal will be LibreOffice ones and no more old OpenOffice.org ones. > > After that, I'll try to have our Pootle instance upgraded to the new > version. There are several things they have to check before to make sure > we don't loose previous functionality. > Please be very sure that all works fine. I´m also translating lxde on their pootle instance and I must say that works worse than what we have now in LibO. Mainly the problems are related with statistics not being updated and it is showing words and sentences needing translating/review poorly. For instance, a component is missing x translations. When we click on that x number, we get "No results found". This could be misleading, especially in LibO project beacause ot its size. Regards > > Cheers > Sophie > -- > Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org > Tel:+33683901545 > Co-founder - Release coordinator > The Document Foundation > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > > -- Sérgio Marques -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] @Pootle developers... and it can help us here
Hi Olivier, Le 03/12/2014 10:37, Olivier Hallot a écrit : > I opened an enhancement suggestion to Pootle that may be of our interest > & collaboration > > http://github.com/translate/pootle/issues/3400 > Thanks for this enhancement request, it's a nice one :) For information, I've joined the team directly and the Amagama server should be updated next week meaning that suggestions on Pootle and Virtaal will be LibreOffice ones and no more old OpenOffice.org ones. After that, I'll try to have our Pootle instance upgraded to the new version. There are several things they have to check before to make sure we don't loose previous functionality. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] @Pootle developers... and it can help us here
I opened an enhancement suggestion to Pootle that may be of our interest & collaboration http://github.com/translate/pootle/issues/3400 -- Olivier Hallot Comunidade LibreOffice http://ask.libreoffice.org/pt-br -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
