Re: Fwd: [libreoffice-l10n] Unclear new strings to translate
Thank you Mike,
its clear now, I will try to translate the strings in a similar cryptic way.
For the others: The inspector does not display correctly yet (in the dev
version), this is how it should look like: https://imgur.com/xu2Wvh2
Milos
On 8/12/20 11:50 AM, Mike Kaganski wrote:
> On 12.08.2020 11:46, Milos Sramek wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I've checked the code. These strings are defined in file
>> ./sw/inc/inspectorproperties.hrc:
>>
>> #define NC_(Context, String) reinterpret_cast(Context
>> "\004" u8##String)
>>
>> /*
>> Description: API names for Paragraph, Character
>> and Text cursor properties
>> */
>>
>> // Format names
>> #define RID_BORDER_DISTANCE
>> NC_("RID_ATTRIBUTE_NAMES_MAP", "Border Distance")
>> #define RID_BOTTOM_BORDER
>> NC_("RID_ATTRIBUTE_NAMES_MAP", "Bottom Border")
>> #define RID_BOTTOM_BORDER_DISTANCE
>> NC_("RID_ATTRIBUTE_NAMES_MAP", "Bottom Border Distance")
>>
>> (217 of them)
>>
>>
>> Is it sure that a user can see these strings somewhere in a translated form?
> Definitely.
>
>> If yes, then we need to know structure of these strings (they do not
>> seem to be sentences) and how are they presented, since many of them
>> have 'cryptic" form like
>>
>> Fill Bitmap Rectangle Point
>> Char Interoperability Grab Bag
>> Char Weight Complex
> Some background.
>
> These strings are related to the Styles Inspector - a GSoC project,
> being implemented by Shivam Kumar Singh
> (https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=134554). The
> inspector is already available in Experimental mode (see comment 2 in
> the meta issue).
>
> The Inspector presents a detailed low-level view of properties applied
> at the cursor. As such, it shows the multitude of attributes applied to
> text (or other object in the future); most these attributes have their
> names in multiple dialogs throughout the UI, but this is the first time
> when all of them need to be named in a single place. And translation in
> dialogs can not be used directly, e.g. because the translation there in
> dialogs may use context absent in the Inspector.
>
> One possible improvement could be to provide a hint somehow near the IDs
> in inspectorproperties.hrc, where known/possible, to the related strings
> in the dialogs/other UI parts, to help translators understand what this
> item is about. But that's a separate task/TODO: the current work on
> Inspector does not consider dialogs; the Inspector is created based on
> the properties available using UNO API, and thus Shivam does not know
> where the items are located in existing UI. (This is to clarify that
> there's no information already used by developers, potentially useful to
> translation, that was somehow lost during development.)
>
> The names that Shivam has put there are possibly somewhat "cryptic"
> exactly because of the mentioned specifics: the names are mostly the API
> names, which were split by CamelCase to produce strings like "Char
> Weight Complex", intended to be used in context of table like
>
> Char Interoperability Grab Bag "some string"
>
> Char Weight Complex 10
>
> So the mentioned TODO would also allow to gradually find the existing
> names of the attributes, and make them consistent in the Inspector.
>
>> On 8/10/20 11:56 AM, Caolán McNamara wrote:
>>> There is already a member in SfxPoolItem "GetPresentation" which is
>>> used in the "organizer" tab of some dialogs to give a human-readable
>>> representation of an SfxPoolItem, I wonder (without looking into it) if
>>> that is anyway useful in this circumstance.
> Thanks Caolán!
>
> Note that SfxPoolItem::GetPresentation provides a property *value*, not
> its name. See tdf#134561, where I propose using this function for the
> purpose of getting "natural" attribute values.
>
>
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Re: Fwd: [libreoffice-l10n] Unclear new strings to translate
On 12.08.2020 11:46, Milos Sramek wrote:
> Hi,
> I've checked the code. These strings are defined in file
> ./sw/inc/inspectorproperties.hrc:
>
> #define NC_(Context, String) reinterpret_cast(Context
> "\004" u8##String)
>
> /*
> Description: API names for Paragraph, Character
> and Text cursor properties
> */
>
> // Format names
> #define RID_BORDER_DISTANCE
> NC_("RID_ATTRIBUTE_NAMES_MAP", "Border Distance")
> #define RID_BOTTOM_BORDER
> NC_("RID_ATTRIBUTE_NAMES_MAP", "Bottom Border")
> #define RID_BOTTOM_BORDER_DISTANCE
> NC_("RID_ATTRIBUTE_NAMES_MAP", "Bottom Border Distance")
>
> (217 of them)
>
>
> Is it sure that a user can see these strings somewhere in a translated form?
Definitely.
> If yes, then we need to know structure of these strings (they do not
> seem to be sentences) and how are they presented, since many of them
> have 'cryptic" form like
>
> Fill Bitmap Rectangle Point
> Char Interoperability Grab Bag
> Char Weight Complex
Some background.
These strings are related to the Styles Inspector - a GSoC project,
being implemented by Shivam Kumar Singh
(https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=134554). The
inspector is already available in Experimental mode (see comment 2 in
the meta issue).
The Inspector presents a detailed low-level view of properties applied
at the cursor. As such, it shows the multitude of attributes applied to
text (or other object in the future); most these attributes have their
names in multiple dialogs throughout the UI, but this is the first time
when all of them need to be named in a single place. And translation in
dialogs can not be used directly, e.g. because the translation there in
dialogs may use context absent in the Inspector.
One possible improvement could be to provide a hint somehow near the IDs
in inspectorproperties.hrc, where known/possible, to the related strings
in the dialogs/other UI parts, to help translators understand what this
item is about. But that's a separate task/TODO: the current work on
Inspector does not consider dialogs; the Inspector is created based on
the properties available using UNO API, and thus Shivam does not know
where the items are located in existing UI. (This is to clarify that
there's no information already used by developers, potentially useful to
translation, that was somehow lost during development.)
The names that Shivam has put there are possibly somewhat "cryptic"
exactly because of the mentioned specifics: the names are mostly the API
names, which were split by CamelCase to produce strings like "Char
Weight Complex", intended to be used in context of table like
Char Interoperability Grab Bag "some string"
Char Weight Complex 10
So the mentioned TODO would also allow to gradually find the existing
names of the attributes, and make them consistent in the Inspector.
>
> On 8/10/20 11:56 AM, Caolán McNamara wrote:
>> There is already a member in SfxPoolItem "GetPresentation" which is
>> used in the "organizer" tab of some dialogs to give a human-readable
>> representation of an SfxPoolItem, I wonder (without looking into it) if
>> that is anyway useful in this circumstance.
Thanks Caolán!
Note that SfxPoolItem::GetPresentation provides a property *value*, not
its name. See tdf#134561, where I propose using this function for the
purpose of getting "natural" attribute values.
--
Best regards,
Mike Kaganski
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Re: Fwd: [libreoffice-l10n] Unclear new strings to translate
Hi Milos, Le 12/08/2020 à 11:40, Milos Sramek a écrit : > I can see there only two items in Style Inspector sidebar deck in Writer > (in the dev version) > Font name > Font size > > In the file inspectorproperties.hrc there is > "Char Font Name" > but no > "Char Font Size" > > Maybe that this feature is not finished yet. > I will ask on the developer's list This is a Google Summer of Code project, so it's not yet finalized. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier so...@libreoffice.org GSM: +33683901545 IRC: sophi Foundation coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: Fwd: [libreoffice-l10n] Unclear new strings to translate
I can see there only two items in Style Inspector sidebar deck in Writer (in the dev version) Font name Font size In the file inspectorproperties.hrc there is "Char Font Name" but no "Char Font Size" Maybe that this feature is not finished yet. I will ask on the developer's list Milos On 8/12/20 11:02 AM, Mihkel Tõnnov wrote: > Milos Sramek () kirjutas 12.08.2020 kell 10:48: > >> ... >> Is it sure that a user can see these strings somewhere in a translated >> form? >> >> If yes, then we need to know structure of these strings (they do not >> seem to be sentences) and how are they presented ... > > They are visible in the > (experimental features must be enabled in order to see it). > > Br, > Mihkel > -- email & jabber: sramek.mi...@gmail.com -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: Fwd: [libreoffice-l10n] Unclear new strings to translate
Milos Sramek () kirjutas 12.08.2020 kell 10:48: > ... > Is it sure that a user can see these strings somewhere in a translated > form? > > If yes, then we need to know structure of these strings (they do not > seem to be sentences) and how are they presented ... They are visible in the Style Inspector sidebar deck in Writer (experimental features must be enabled in order to see it). Br, Mihkel -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: Fwd: [libreoffice-l10n] Unclear new strings to translate
Hi,
I've checked the code. These strings are defined in file
./sw/inc/inspectorproperties.hrc:
#define NC_(Context, String) reinterpret_cast(Context
"\004" u8##String)
/*
Description: API names for Paragraph, Character
and Text cursor properties
*/
// Format names
#define RID_BORDER_DISTANCE
NC_("RID_ATTRIBUTE_NAMES_MAP", "Border Distance")
#define RID_BOTTOM_BORDER
NC_("RID_ATTRIBUTE_NAMES_MAP", "Bottom Border")
#define RID_BOTTOM_BORDER_DISTANCE
NC_("RID_ATTRIBUTE_NAMES_MAP", "Bottom Border Distance")
(217 of them)
Is it sure that a user can see these strings somewhere in a translated form?
If yes, then we need to know structure of these strings (they do not
seem to be sentences) and how are they presented, since many of them
have 'cryptic" form like
Fill Bitmap Rectangle Point
Char Interoperability Grab Bag
Char Weight Complex
Milos
On 8/10/20 11:56 AM, Caolán McNamara wrote:
> On Mon, 2020-08-10 at 12:01 +0300, Mike Kaganski wrote:
>> But for a random Russian user, who tries to understand why their text
>> is red, reading a random English description like "Color of
>> character", or random English-based ID like "CharColor", might be
>> absolutely incomprehensible. A string like "Цвет символа", to the
>> contrary, would make sense. So - well, on the second thought: no, we
>> should not avoid translation here
> There is already a member in SfxPoolItem "GetPresentation" which is
> used in the "organizer" tab of some dialogs to give a human-readable
> representation of an SfxPoolItem, I wonder (without looking into it) if
> that is anyway useful in this circumstance.
>
>
--
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Re: Fwd: [libreoffice-l10n] Unclear new strings to translate
On Mon, 2020-08-10 at 12:01 +0300, Mike Kaganski wrote: > But for a random Russian user, who tries to understand why their text > is red, reading a random English description like "Color of > character", or random English-based ID like "CharColor", might be > absolutely incomprehensible. A string like "Цвет символа", to the > contrary, would make sense. So - well, on the second thought: no, we > should not avoid translation here There is already a member in SfxPoolItem "GetPresentation" which is used in the "organizer" tab of some dialogs to give a human-readable representation of an SfxPoolItem, I wonder (without looking into it) if that is anyway useful in this circumstance. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: Fwd: [libreoffice-l10n] Unclear new strings to translate
Hi, On 10.08.2020 11:51, Heiko Tietze wrote: > Shall we recommend to not translate these strings? Guess it could be solved in > this case by just hard coding. > > No idea how I'd localized "Fill Bitmap Rectangle Point" as it makes absolutely > no sense with "Füllung Bild Rechteck Punkt". So my take -> hard-code strings. I have no strong preference here, but if we don't translate them, then having them "human-readable" makes no sense, and it's better to revert to the internal API names, to avoid introduction of another useless English-only name for something that is not available in other languages. But for a random Russian user, who tries to understand why their text is red, reading a random English description like "Color of character", or random English-based ID like "CharColor", might be absolutely incomprehensible. A string like "Цвет символа", to the contrary, would make sense. So - well, on the second thought: no, we should not avoid translation here, and we need these all technical strings to be translated. Of course, an ideal translation might take iterations... -- Best regards, Mike Kaganski -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
