[lace] Re: amateur / why we do this (long)
Oh, Liz, I enjoyed your "pricing ritual" story!
Some of my experiences and answers regarding lacemaking and its sense and
its pricelessness:
The only place i make lace in public is an old farm house, where I use to
spend my holidays on horse riding. Its a family place, and between lessons on
horse back for my children or me i enjoy sitting in front of the 150 year old
red brick building, under old trees, making lace in peace.
And I enjoy the opportunity to "demonstrate". Mostly children are curious,
always two or three become so fascinated, that they are sitting beside me for
hours, watching, and asking if they could have a try...
Since my second trip to this place, i always bring a small styro pillow, a
simple straight or snake pricking, some simple bobbins and coloured thick
cotton thread. There was never a week without one or two finished pieces.
So, answer to first "standard question" ("isn't that too difficult? i'd
never learn this...) is no more neccessary. i just point at the red-cheeked eight
year old boy (yes, as often as girls) beside me, who never knew that bobbins
even exist, and who now is able not only to make lace, to see wether he made
an mistake but even to retro it..
*g* I spread the virus...
my answer on that question #1 for children is always: "well, do you think
reading is difficult?". They understand.
for women interested in textile crafts (as most women in Germany know how to
knit): "it's just like knitting, where you have knit and purl. here it's
just cross and twist. one stitch after another, don't worry about the number of
stitches in a row, the number of bobbins on the pillow."
question #2: why are you doing this, what is this lace for?
i try to explain that I enjoy the making itself. and ask, wether they ever
made a puzzle or solved a crossword in a newspaper - and what they do with it
afterwards.. and that I enjoy solving my thread puzzle, and have beautiful
lace as an add on.. and that I only sometimes make lace for a certain purpose.
The main purpose is joy.
(my old song: I'm useful on the job, as mother, as housewife, and in many
other aspects. lacemaking is my recreation time, and has not to useful for
anyone but for me. and for me, it is)
question #3: how can you be so patient?
I need patience to do the things I don't like.. (ironing e.g.), not for the
things I enjoy. Sounds logical enough for most people *gg*
question #4: do you ever sell your lace?
If people, like in this holidays, have the opportunity to watch my
lacemaking more than a few minutes, the question mutates, including the answer, to:
"this can't be sold, it's unaffordable, isn't it?".
Which I confirm, saying that I keep my lace or give it as a gift for dear
and knowing people.
Thinking about that, I could imagine to make lace for period costumes. For a
theater which is really trying to choose authentic wear for the actors for
example... For a dressmaker like Bjarne or those who wear his clothes...
For not much more than the thread and the wine during the lacemaking hours..
just for the feeling, this piece of lace will be valued as it should in his
historical context.
Does this make any sense to you, fellow Arachneans?
bye for know - grey sky, cold, rainy, ugly outside. lacemaking weather.
grey inside: deep grief about the murder of Anna Lindh
Eva, Haltern, Germany
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[lace] Withof
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:49:53 -0400, Marcie wrote: >For a thinking person's bobbinlace I nominate Withof... no diagrams or >pinholes between your brain and the lace. I have also put my Withof >knowledge to good use when faced with an incorrect pricking in another >lace technique. For me Withof was the great challenge, the ultimate scary hardest thing I could think of lace. I'd used fine threads in Honiton and Binche, but no pinholes was definitely removing the safety net. However, once I tried Withof, under the excellent guidance of Yvonne Scheeler-Kerkhoff, it became a fun challenge. The lack of pins is a huge advantage that enables me to design. If I can draw it, then I can tackle making it in Withof. No have I got the right number of pinholes questions, no working it out in advance in diagrams. There are some technicalities in matching size of design to the thread, and not having areas that require too many bobbins for a part lace made on a small pillow, but not many. Tomorrow I will collect Yvonne from the airport to take her to Alston Hall near Preston where she is teaching for the weekend. I'm taking my great African snail design to work on. This is only the third piece of Withof I've made. The first attempt made on a course with Yvonne in Cheltenham in the spring isn't quite to my satisfaction. I've redrawn the rear part of the snail's body to improve the shape of the design. The head had a part sticking out horizontally that was hard to work well so I've changed the angle at which the snail is holding its head to make it easier to work. My weekend will be lots of little practice bits to get this right, in preparation for redoing the entire piece by myself. -- The young always have the same problem - how to rebel and conform at the same time. They have now solved this by defying their parents and copying one another. - Quentin Crisp Steph Peters, Manchester, England [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] progression from the copyright discussion
In a message dated 11/09/2003 23:25:41 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > This led to the question from one of my students as to how to get > permission if all you have seen is a pattern a friend is working which > you would like to work, with a name of someone you have never heard of > and that is someone ordinary, not famous, so you haven't got a clue how > to contact the copyright owner to ask for permission to make or buy a > legal copy... Spiders, Lukily, quite a few designers put both their name and their address onto their patterns - certainly Vivienne from Biggins does and I for one, can remember who I bought patterns from because there are only so many designers and suppliers who sell individual patterns. My concern comes with patterns which are 'out of print' either because the designers have retired (or worse still died) or because the supplier is no longer in business. This is when we have issues. For instance, I have quite a few Joan Kelly patterns (and yes, Russel, I'm trying to work out which ones I have and which ones you still have to get the difference) however, Joan has stopped designing and selling her patterns and the one supplier that I know who has any of her's only has a few left - and certainly, some of my patterns weren't on the available list. So, what do I do if one of my friends or students like a pattern I have but Russel can't supply it? That's where the problems really start because I know who designed it, I know who supplied it but I can't get another copy. Part of me thinks, what the heck. But most of me thinks simply that there are enough patterns in the world that if one isn't available, will the person really die if they don't make it? For example, I had a pattern from the lace guild (yonks old) which was for a piece of Bucks about 1" in diameter and meant to go into a broach or locket - however, this was just the right size to make as a table centre for my mum's dolls house. So I did. When her friend bought a dolls house, mum really wanted me to make the piece again so that she could give it to her friend. However, I couldn't, at that time, find the pattern and also I didn't really want them both to have the same piece of lace, I thought it would be nice if they had similar but differnt unique pieces. Why? Because neither lady is likely to be given a piece of lace by anyone else so why shouldn't it be different. So I went through my books and found another piece which was very similar in size and idea but a slightly differnt pattern. In other words, I just made something different. And for those of you who have always wanted to design - here is a thought - I remember making Joan Kelly's basket for my mum. A friend at my lace group liked the pattern but wanted to make a bigger basket, so she sat down and designed her own one. When she finished, it looked nothing like Joan Kellys' - the pattern of the torchon was completely different but she had used the idea as inspiration. Also, she learned a lot from the process - like trying to get the outer lace strip to the circumferance fit the base - after two redesigned she realised that she could just enlarge or reduce using a photocopier. I still subscribe to the principle that I have too many patterns for one life time so if I can't make that, then I'll make this. But, and this is the big one, I do realise that for many people, when they start making lace, seeing a piece that someone else is making is often the inspiration to 'have a go' and I do not want to see that lost - so that makes the quandary. Regards Liz Beecher I'm http://journals.aol.com/thelacebee/thelacebee";>blogging now - see what it's all about - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Recipe and Questions
This should be on lace-chat, but since Margery posted to lace and I'm not sure she is on chat, I'll reply. Pardon if anyone is offended. When we moved back to VA from England, I had some recipes from FH Clive's aunts. Since they were in weights and I had my kitchen scales, I measured/weighed the most common ingredients. I found that the American tablespoon is about the same as a dessert spoon in England, and the teaspoon doesn't veer far from the teaspoon (as with a cup o') Here they are: Cake flour - 1 cup = 3 oz Plain flour - 1 cup = 4 oz Unbleached flour - 1 cup = 5 oz Sugar - 1 cup = 8 oz. Icing sugar - 1 cup = 4 oz (this is the same as confectioners sugar) Brown sugar, packed - ½ cup = 4 oz 1 cup = 8 oz Solid vegetable shortening - ½ cup = 4 oz Dry, uncooked regular oatmeal - 2 cups = 5 oz Raisins - 1 cup = 5 oz Chocolate chips - 1 cup = 6 oz Happy Baking, Betty Ann in Roanoke, Virginia USA - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] For bobbin makers?
Gentle Spiders, Toni (who's no longer on Arachne but still a personal correspondent) sent me some info on a tree/bush which goes by a common name of "spindle tree" or "burning bush" (genus Euonymus). Supposedly because its wood is so smooth, it makes nice weaving spindles. So she thought it might be of interest to bobbin makers as well. Since I agree with her, I thought I'd pass it on (in case all of you bobbin makers don't know about it already ) http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/s/spindl82.html - Tamara P Duvall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: Cost of buying
On Thursday, Sep 11, 2003, at 08:53 US/Eastern, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Liz) wrote: What has always got me about reenacting was that people wanted the best but wanted to pay the least. But isn't getting "the most for the least" what we *all want, regardless of the circumstances or object? It's where/how far you cut your corners that matters, IMO. If I can, I'll wait till the particular silk thread I want is on sale -- same silk, but a saving. OTOH, I won't get rayon instead, even if it meant more of a saving... But my saving grace was bartering. Bartering is wonderful. I once designed and made removable fabric covers for display frames for a local artist's exhibit of stained glass, threw in a (very simple) wedding dress and got a magnificent piece of her glass (she threw in extra red -- more expensive than other colours, apparently). Modern, but she took my liking for Art Nouveau into consideration, so it's all curves and swirls... It's been brightening our entry hall for over 20 yrs, and I still think I got a better deal, though she seemed to be very happy with what she got... So there I am, period up to my eyeballs when the local lacemakers come up to you and say - 'that's not right for the period'. A fairly common human trait -- make yourself bigger, by cutting others down "to size"... :) I'm always reminded of that fairy tale where a scorpion gets a ride accross the raging river on a fox's back, and bites the fox mid-crossing. When the fox points out the nearsightedness of this action (now we'll both die), the scorpion replies: "I couldn't help myself; that's how I'm made". I figure the same is true about small-minded people... On the matter of "amateur" status, I'm like Robin and others -- at the speed I work, I can afford to *give* but not to sell... So, if anyone asks me how much I charge (either for the lace or for the patterns), I don't even discuss the price -- I tell them I don't sell because nobody in their right mind could afford to pay what it's worth in time and effort, and because I don't have to (being a "kept woman"). I then tell them to go to WalMart (5 miles in gas, and $2 per yard. All they need ) - Tamara P Duvall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Irma's needle lace
Hi everybody, I just wanted you all to know that Irma Osterman has allowed me to put a photo of her recent needle lace piece "Let me Grow Lovely Growing Old" on the CALG website (for those who didn't get the most recent IOLI bulletin). http://www.chicagoarealaceguild.comIt is worked in colored silks and gold thread. Lorelei - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] progression from the copyright discussion
In my class yesterday afternoon, I mentioned the discussion we had regarding *that* mat, and reiterated my stance on using copied patterns in that it is illegal (without the copyright holder's permission). This led to the question from one of my students as to how to get permission if all you have seen is a pattern a friend is working which you would like to work, with a name of someone you have never heard of and that is someone ordinary, not famous, so you haven't got a clue how to contact the copyright owner to ask for permission to make or buy a legal copy... I can see her point. We will never fully stop those who buy a pattern and then copy it for their friends, no matter how hard we try. But maybe there are ways we could make it easier for those who wish to obtain a legal copy to identify who designed the pattern in the first place? (And I know I'm a terror for often simply putting JP or JMP and the year on my patterns!). -- Jane Partridge - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Aesthetics and grounding of Beds and Binche
I've been fascinated by the different ways makers of Binche and the other Flemish laces use diagrams, and plan and execute their work; not at all like traditional floral Bucks or Beds. I wonder if there is any documentary evidence (prickings or diagrams) indicating how the originals were worked, or even evidence in the lace. I would assume if successive repeats differed, and improved, that East Midlands methods were at work; you can certainly see that happening in Thomas Lester - the eagle cuff on page 56 of Ann Buck's book has two mirror-imaged eagles, and the wheel ground between his feet was only got right on the one on the left... I think the safest view on the aesthetics is to recognise that we all have different equally valid views - and some of us different views at different times. With lace, however, I think we should consider it in context. Binche was not made to be judged displayed or photographed flat out; it was meant to be worn, frilled at best and possibly goffered at worst, and the wearer probably didn't stand still! Obviously the same applies to some extent to Thomas Lester, but that lace was worn when ladies were more upholstered than draped, and so were made to be seen more as we do now. I really do think we need to take this into account when judging lace. I know the change from point ground to Beds groundings is meant to be because the latter were quicker and easier, and this may be true of the standard plaits of the more geometric sorts, but scarcely of all. I wonder if the original change was as much driven by aesthetic and fashion values - designs were getting larger, lace was not frilled up and worn almost like muslin, and the more open grounds suited it better. The Thomas Lester ground of diamond tallies is certainly not easier nor quicker than point ground to work, but does suit the patterns better than point ground would, or at least, I think that's the case with the pattern I'm working on at present. The use of veins and raised tallies in the bolder leaves and petals in floral Beds balances the style as well, and certainly don't make the patterns easier or quicker to work - they seem to me to require skills not used in floral Bucks - the pattern I'm working on is really in the transitional mode, and doesn't have those features (though I'm still struggling!). Not to go on about it too much, but one reason I think some of us do not go for The Mat is that its design is more Beds than Bucks in this respect. I find the version with plaited grounds more attractive. Back to my struggles in Beds, so to speak - Tamara's and Adele's comments especially on Binche groundings have illuminated something I'm trying to deal with. I was lucky enough to have a weekend recently at Knuston Hall on a weekend course given by Mrs Underwood, and had taken a pattern based on a typical Thomas Lester unit dated 1856. It's the top left hand one on page 30 of Ann Buck's book, and also in Mrs Underwood's "Traditional Bedfordshire Lace, Technique and Patterns", page 44 (with worked sample). It's a typical unit, having a repeat of two flowers and some leaves against the headside, but just ground by the time you get over to the foot. I was tampering with it by adding a corner and reverse, so to some extent repricking it. Mrs U. noted that I was taking the diamond ground right against the sprigs (which the lady who worked the sample had also done to some extent). She said this was typical Bucks mentality, but the original pricking had left the motive room to breathe, and there were more plaits leading into the ground, as needed, rather than the regular plaited ground. This would give a very regular ground, but with the Baroque design sitting within it rather than being crushed against it. I won't be able to check this till I've done a fair bit more, but I have already noted it's easier!! It also does solve the problem of a regular "strong" ground with a flowing design - less of a problem aesthetically with the visually weaker point ground - that the Binche workers have been debating. I feel some consolation in that I am probably fairly close to the original worker, in having some background in Bucks, and trying to cope with the more modern stuff! [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Witches' Work?
Reading back issues of LMi, a technique called Witches' Work was mentioned in an article by Berthilda Vandoren in connection with Binche. Does anyone know what this is and have some information about it? [Is there any way to ask people not to send speculations (without seeming totally rude?) We had several very good educated guesses from our group, but I'm really hoping for an authoritative answer to take back to them. I volunteered to "ask on arachne".] Marcie - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] thinking persons lace
"Several of us seem agreed that many bobbin laces, certainly floral Beds, and some of us (at least me) floral Bucks, are for "thinking" persons, what about Binche? " I think all of the laces are for thinking people. We each are unique in the way we think and that is why one lace will grab us and another won't. Whichever one we choose it challenges us to think and improve. M erlene A lace artist working with my hands,head,and heart - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: Binche - Was Thinking person's lace
I had the price discussion with one woman where I related the cost of preparing the pricking alone to how much she would pay her cleaner. I was looking at the lace roundel she had picked to discuss and when I looked up to continue the conversation she just wasn't there any more. Kate in Somerset [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RV: [lace] Lazy susan and thanks
Thanks to the thread about the lazy susan, I have found out how to use mine. I happened to buy one years ago in a lace fair,(didn't know its name), and don't remember the seller's explanations about how to use it. Now I finally will try it and find out if it really works. Antje, from Guadalajara, Spain. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] amateur lacemakers and thinking person's bobbinlace
We could take a cue from amateur astronomers. They take great pride in remaining amateurs and have made many of the important discoveries that require a human eye put up to a telescope. These days many of the professionals do not look up from their computers and couldn't locate the constellations if their lives depended on it. Some have never even looked through a telescope! For a thinking person's bobbinlace I nominate Withof... no diagrams or pinholes between your brain and the lace. I have also put my Withof knowledge to good use when faced with an incorrect pricking in another lace technique. Marcie - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] amateur lacemakers
I would remind readers that the root of the word "amateur" means "love." If you have a choice of various meanings for a word, why choose the one that's "insulting?" Rather, choose the most suitable meaning. If we're talking about lace and lacemaking, "lover" would be the best meaning for "amateur." - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] amateur lacemakers
In an email dated Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:35:12 pm GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >In a message dated 09/11/2003 5:35:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > >> I'm more insulted by the term 'amateur lacemakers' Devon >who thinks amateur is a word with a positive connotation > Unfortunately, like other words that we have discussed here such as craft, amateur has lost it's pure meaning and become an insult to people - 'Oh, you're only an amateur', 'that's very amateurish' I for one am professional in all that I do except when I'm being silly and a 'free child' - mind you I'm quite professional in that. But then professional has connotations too - as in 'you're a real pro' -- Regards Liz Beecher I'm http://journals.aol.com/thelacebee/thelacebee";>blogging now - see what it's all about - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] amateur lacemakers
>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm more insulted by the term 'amateur lacemakers' - if they mean that I don't get paid then that is only true if we mean in money and I don't charge because no one could afford to pay me.<<< I'm perfectly happy to be called amateur. I make no effort whatsoever to earn a living by making lace. I could never do so, at the rate I work and given my disinterest in finishing things or making gobs of any one pattern. I don't see "amateur" as anything derogatory. The atheletes in the Olympics are amateurs (well, mostly). They're spectacular atheletes, they're just not earning their living that way (well, mostly). We (and they) do what we do for personal enrichment, not for money. What's insulting about that? Robin P. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA http://www.pittsburghlace.8m.com - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Cost of buying was Binche
In an email dated Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:17:13 am GMT, Clive and Betty Ann Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >Oh, Liz, that is a classic! Love it! > >Betty Ann in Roanoke, Virginia, USA >~ >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> So I would go through the 'price ritual'. >> See, it's not just the tatting woman that goes around and makes your life misery. What has always got me about reenacting was that people wanted the best but wanted to pay the least. My other half always said that when it came to buying equipment for fighting you couldn't spend enough. He has on too many occasions had badly weilded sword or miss used pike has ended up crashing across his head - OH says that if he hadn't got the best helmet, made sure it was padded properly and always kept the chin strap flexible he would have been laid up for months in hosiptal. Reenactment can be dangerous but you only get what you pay for. I suppose that I'm lucky - I found that I couldn't afford the cost of clothing so I went out and bought patterns, sized them up for me and made clothes. I only had 2 terms of bad dressmaking lessons and I cannot make anything modern but have a talent for period costume. But my saving grace was bartering. I found people who made wonder clothes and would offer them my lace if they gave me money off things. One lady I offered about 5 yards of handmade lace approximately 2 - 2.5" wide and made in linen to a torchon pattern that was from Belguim and from the period that we did. She was over the moon and offered to make me a cassock (it's like a jacket with buttons up the inside of the arms and the side seams of the jacket - you can then unbutton it and button the sleeves to the seams and make a cloak - warm, thick and washed in water repellant it makes a great rain jacket when you are on the field.) We worked on an hour exchange rate and she felt that the button sewing on (200 in all) equalled the work in the lace in hours - so all I had to do was pay for the material. We fixed the price at £20 for the wool suiting and thread. When it came to swopping I had been to another couple of events and had actually got 14 yards of the lace for her. I was really happy with the cassock and was quite willing to give the extra length as a bonus - she was taken aback by this gesture and said that it was nearly three times what I had agreed so she couldn't charge me anything. Result? Two happy bunnies - she had enough lace to cover her wedding dress and I was warm and dry. However, one of my biggest upsets when reenacting was the fact that I had taken care to research what pillow and bobbins I would use for the period. I also had the right type of fabric for the period covering my pillow and as a cover cloth. I have certain bobbins that when spangled also use period beads or semi precious stones and worked in either silk or linen on a period pricking. Everything done to the sciscors, pins, ink on the pricking had been done right. Even the pricking card was the right type. So there I am, period up to my eyeballs when the local lacemakers come up to you and say - 'that's not right for the period'. You feel like getting them by the throat and saying look, I've spent 10 years researching this and IT IS To which they would say, 'Oh, I don't think so'. Mind you this is the type of person who when you ask usually has done about 3 lessons at the local college and now KNOWS EVERYTHING but on too many occasions it is said by lacemakers who should know better. When I go to a demonstration I always take time to admire everything that the person is doing no matter how CRAP they might be. I'll pick on a particular bobbin that they obviously love and ask them who made it, where did they get it, how long have they had it ... etc. I will compliment their choice of pillow / pattern / thread etc and encourage them and wish them luck. No matter how dire I would never critisize them - but perhaps that is just the tutor in me - it's also why I like to hang out with you guys. Supportive is your middle name. OBTW - in the end I just used to make honiton at demonstrations - this was in the days before Binche became popular - that used to shut them up as most of the critics hadn't tried it and had no idea what I was doing. My love to you all Regards Liz Beecher I'm http://journals.aol.com/thelacebee/thelacebee";>blogging now - see what it's all about - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] amateur lacemakers
In a message dated 09/11/2003 5:35:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I'm more insulted by the term 'amateur lacemakers' - if they mean that I > don't get paid then that is only true if we mean in money and I don't charge > because no one could afford to pay me. > > My dictionary gives the definition of "amateur" as "one who cultivates any study or art or other activity for personal pleasure instead of professionally or for gain." Devon who thinks amateur is a word with a positive connotation - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Richard II, hankies and pockets
Just had to respond to this as earlier this year my lace tutor arrange a visit to the Globe Theatre for her classes - we didn't actually get to see a show, but did get a demonstration by the head of the wardrobe there, where she talked about the costumes and how they were made - some we even got to touch! What a fabulous day - time just rushed by and all-to-soon we had to make the journey home. We felt so honoured that she had arranged this for us and very proud that she had worked quite a bit of the lace on the costumes [she didn't do the hanky :)]. I believe that she also appeared on the TV show in the interval (can't confirm it as I don't get the Channel that this was on :( ). Happy lacing Jill @ Heathrow, where the sun is trying to shine through the rain clouds _ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: Binche - Was Thinking person's lace
I can relate to that phylosophy by the public at large. When I was demonstrating on one occasion someone asked me if I sold what I made, I told them no because people don't want to pay what it is worth. After some further discussion she asked me how much I would charge, just as a matter of interest, for the narrow edging on my pillow. I told her it took me 20 minutes to do one pattern repeat and so 3 patterns to the hour. I said I should be paid $20 per hour - she said "$20? that is too high". I asked if she had a car, or ever needed work done in her house then the going rate for a specialist to do a good job is at least $45/hour. We eventually agreed $5/hour and I pointed out that was less that minimum wage. Then we counted the patterns (about 20inches) which meant the piece I had on the pillow was going to cost over $100. She said "Wow, now I understand why handmade craft things cost so much. I had never thought about that before." So perhaps it did make a small group of people realise that good quality handmade things are expensive. Malvary - off to work in Ottawa. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Binche - Was Thinking person's lace
Oh, Liz, that is a classic! Love it! Betty Ann in Roanoke, Virginia, USA ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > So I would go through the 'price ritual'. > > I'd scratch my head, look pensive and say 'well, about er ... yes, that much thread > - yes, call the thread £30'. > > They'd be getting their wallets out at this point to rip my arm out of it's socket. > > Then I'd say, without any emotion, 'of course it would take approximately 500 plus > hours so at £15 an hour that would make it just over £7,500 for labour - heck, I'll > throw the thread in for free'. > > This is where the 'client' would be doing a goldfish impersonation - you know, the > mouth opening and closing but nothing happening. > > The 'client' would then splutter 'but I can by one from (insert name of any general > store you like) for only 15 quid (indignation, indignation.' > > 'Hey', I would reply, 'if that's all you want then fine'. At this point, other half > would walk past in his handmade, blackwork embroidered shirt and ask how I was doing > with his lace for his cuffs - I'd always say, 'no problem love, you'll get it > shortly' and he'd say 'brilliant - it'll look so good and authentic'. > > Yes, I'm horrid. Yes, I enjoyed it. Yes, they are ALL cheapskates. > > I earnt £15 an hour doing my day job and my lacemaking was far better than my work I > did there. So wasn't I worth the same amount if not more? > > When you then tell them that lace was one sold by placing soverigns along the length > you wanted to buy they go off in a huff. > - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: Binche - Was Thinking person's lace
In an email dated Wed, 10 Sep 2003 4:12:46 pm GMT, "Aurelia L. Loveman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> quoted: >"... Binche...never fully evolved in design...but now being >revived as esoteric studies for accomplished amateur >lacemakers." > >Aurelia > Aurelia, I'm more insulted by the term 'amateur lacemakers' - if they mean that I don't get paid then that is only true if we mean in money and I don't charge because no one could afford to pay me. When I did reenactment (don't worry, I'm better now) I was often asked to make a reproduction 17th Century collar by various men or by their wives. I always carried postcards of examples of the lace or photocopies of pieces that I have been lucky enough to see first hand, and would say, 'do you mean like this?' and they would say 'yes' (usually milanese). So I would go through the 'price ritual'. I'd scratch my head, look pensive and say 'well, about er ... yes, that much thread - yes, call the thread £30'. They'd be getting their wallets out at this point to rip my arm out of it's socket. Then I'd say, without any emotion, 'of course it would take approximately 500 plus hours so at £15 an hour that would make it just over £7,500 for labour - heck, I'll throw the thread in for free'. This is where the 'client' would be doing a goldfish impersonation - you know, the mouth opening and closing but nothing happening. The 'client' would then splutter 'but I can by one from (insert name of any general store you like) for only 15 quid (indignation, indignation.' 'Hey', I would reply, 'if that's all you want then fine'. At this point, other half would walk past in his handmade, blackwork embroidered shirt and ask how I was doing with his lace for his cuffs - I'd always say, 'no problem love, you'll get it shortly' and he'd say 'brilliant - it'll look so good and authentic'. Yes, I'm horrid. Yes, I enjoyed it. Yes, they are ALL cheapskates. I earnt £15 an hour doing my day job and my lacemaking was far better than my work I did there. So wasn't I worth the same amount if not more? When you then tell them that lace was one sold by placing soverigns along the length you wanted to buy they go off in a huff. - Regards Liz Beecher I'm http://journals.aol.com/thelacebee/thelacebee";>blogging now - see what it's all about - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Richard II, hankies and pockets
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Jean Barrett wrote: Dear Jean and other spiders, I didn't see the televised version of Richard II from the Globe, but I was lucky enough to see it live in the magnificent Middle Temple Hall earlier in the year. Of course from the audience one didn't get 'close-ups' of the lace, so it wasn't so distracting. Richard II and his first Queen, Ann of Bohemia, are credited with introducing the handkerchief as a fashionable item to the English court, which is why, I think, so much was made of it. But yes, it should have been larger and the corner was all wrong. Pockets for women were a separate item until the late 18th century - worn under the skirt and reached through a gap in the seam. For men 'built-in' pockets came much earlier. Janet Arnold in "Patterns of Fashion" shows several early 17th century breeches with pockets. The word certainly occurs in Shakespeare. The Globe wardrobe prides itself on making clothes as authentic as possible, both in fabrics and construction. All the stitching is done by hand, and they have begun to commission hand-made braids and narrow laces. But inevitably there are still compromises. They can't afford fine needlelace, reticella and punto-in-aria for their collars and ruffs. At least they're not using chemical lace or nylon! In case anyone is historically confused, the aim of the production was not to replicate the fashions of Richard II's time (14th century), but those of the time when the play was written in the reign of Queen Elizabeth I (late 16th century). Bridget, in Watford, England. _ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Channer's mat
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:55:06 +0100 From: "Ruth Bean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [lace] Re: lace-digest V1 #3773 Miss Channer's Mat Sadly, this illustrates just how the myths are perpetuated in this discussion:. Good on you, Ruth, I think this was an excellent answer to a lot of comments. I can't understand why this discussion is still going on! As several people said, there are a lot of modern pieces which are just as interesting, if not more! Perhaps, to calm all disappointed lacemakers, you could incorporate The Mat, and its pricking, of course, into one of your future books on this type of lace... Please keep publishing, anyway, we all need books to support our enthusiasm, and make us dream... Yours, gratefully, Helene Gannac, Melbourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://search.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Search - Looking for more? Try the new Yahoo! Search - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
