Re: [lace] Irish Crocheted Lace

[Avital Pinnick]

Upon rereading your message, I just realised that you were asking
specifically about getting the ground flat and even. Several of the books I
have suggest folding the backing material (brown paper or whatever) at the
point where you are working, so that you have enough room to move your hook.
After every couple rows, unfold the backing material and make sure that it's
lying flat. A little bit of loose tension can be absorbed, as long as it's
not so loose that it sags, but if it's too tight and "cups," it'll be quite
noticeable and that part of the design will probably wear out first, because
of the tension on the threads.

Just a side note--one of the things I noticed since I started looking at
historical pieces more carefully is the way that Irish crocheters used
different grounds. The most common chain-and-picot ground that we use is
found on a lot of close work, like the bodice of a gown, for example,
because it's very dense and not as strong as the coarser sc-over-chain
grounds, which are often found, say on the train of the gown and cover a
larger area. I imagine that apart from the design considerations (the
contrast between grounds is very effective), the coarser ground is stronger
and probably faster to produce because it results in heavy bars that can
support larger motifs. For a christening gown, a chain-and-picot ground
would be fine, but for something as large as a wedding gown, one can see why
different grounds would be used.

Avital

- Original Message -
From: "Hopkins Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 9:08 PM
Subject: [lace] Irish Crocheted Lace


> Has anyone tried this type of lace. I'm thinking of doing some for a
> christening gown. The part that scares me, though, is that you put in the
> ground after you make the motifs, thus joining them together. It seems to
me
> that it would be difficult to keep the ground looking even as you do this.
Has
> anyone done this, and is it hard to keep it even? Any hints would be
greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Sharon in

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Re: [lace] making cord

[Michael Wotherspoon]

Hi Sharon,
Allow about 3x the length of the finished cord and enough strands for 1/2
the desired thickness of the cord.
Knot the ends together at each end.  Attach one end securely, eg. to a door
knob or pin to a cushion or get someone to hold it.
Insert a pencil at the other end and start twisting.  (A bobby pin works
even better as it is really easy to twist it.)*
Twist until the cord starts to double up on itself when the tension is
released slightly. When twisted enough, fold in half and let go of the
centre point gradually.  It helps if you can attach a small weight at the
centre. The 2 ends twist around each other.  Knot the ends together.

* Another method is to attach a string to one and attach that to ONE beater
of an electric hand beater/mixer (don't put both beaters in or you will have
a real mess!).
It is also possible to do 2 colours.  You need to loop one colour into the
other.
Hope this helps.
Shelagh
St. John's, NL  Canada
(most easterly part of N. America)

- Original Message - 
From: "rick &sharon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 6:22 PM
Subject: [lace] making cord


> Can someone help me?  I once had the directions for making a twisted cord
> out of embroidery thread..haven't a clue what happened to them :(  It was
> very handy to make a matching cord for an embroidered pincushion etc.  I
> vaguely remember that you started with about eight times the finished
length
> of floss and then started twisting around a doorknob.  It was very nice to
> match cord with the embroidery colours.  Does someone out there know how
to
> do this?  We're starting a class making lace amulet purses and I thought
> this would come in handy for the neck cord.  Thanks.   Sharon on dull but
> warmer Vancouver Island
>
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

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[lace] Looking for a book....

[Nova]

Hello Lace Friends,

I have been hoping to find a copy of the book "Russian Lace Patterns" by
Anna Korableva and Bridget M Cook;  but haven't yet found one for sale.   I
just wondered if anyone reading would have a copy they wish to sell;  or any
suppliers reading have a copy in their stock for sale.  Please forward
replies to my mailbox at [EMAIL PROTECTED]

There's a little pattern in this book I'd really love to make, and the whole
of the book looks very interesting to me. :-)

Thanks much!

Nova (on Vancouver Island, B.C. where it's our typical wintry, rainy day
today - just perfect for planning out some new lace projects! )

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[lace] Re: Cross & Twist

[Tamara P. Duvall]

On Tuesday, Nov 11, 2003, at 13:44 US/Eastern, Janis Savage wrote:

One of my lacemaking friends had her first lessons in Paris, with a 
very
strict teacher.
She had copious notes describing each stitch and ground in detail.
Cross & Twist were denoted as X & O.
So a half stitch is XO
XO is just like CT (or XT); it doesn't allow for the difference between 
*two* pairs being twisted simultaneously, immediately following a cross 
(as is the case most often, in grounds and motifs) and only *one* pair 
being twisted (for whatever reason; usually something to do with 
footside)... One can call a "spade" a "digging implement", but it's 
still *the same tool*, with the same limitations...

-
Tamara P Duvall
Lexington, Virginia,  USA
Formerly of Warsaw, Poland
http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd/
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Re: [lace] Case against colour coding

[Ruth Budge]

And I'm not sure about the dogs either!   We've had two dogs over the years,
and both of them in turn could tell the red car from any other coloured car in
a lineup.
Ruth Budge (Sydney, Australia)
Tamara wrote:
>  People have trouble distinguishing between *pairs* of colours; they do
> not see everything as black/white/grey...>


http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals
New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time.

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[lace] Re: Twist and turn

[Tamara P. Duvall]

On Monday, Nov 10, 2003, at 10:21 US/Eastern, Panza, Robin wrote:

have to *stop and think* what the last letter of a
word might be)...
No, just straight memorization.
C= 2 over 3; N= 2 and 4 over 1 and 2.  You don't need to associate it 
with
words unless you want to.
There's *nothing* "straight" about memorization, as far as I'm 
concerned; it's for the birds (those, whose memory still functions 
)... Association with words is not a matter of choice for me; words 
are what I remember (and I expect that, any day, I'll wake up to find 
that I can no longer speak/write English at all; it's already beginning 
to "leak" away). I'm one of those people who do not say "ay, oh, el, 
ay" for IOLI; for me, it's "yolee"... All those "MADD" and "SAD" 
abbreviations have been invented for people like me; I cannot remember 
a string of letters any more than I can remember a string of numbers 
(there are times I have trouble with my own phone number, and zip 
code+4 is a nightmare).

Or \ = cross = 2 over 3;
// = twist = 2/4 over 1/3;
/ = right over left, single thread.
I like that; symbols are OK (for me), as long as they're self-evident 
within reason (as these obviously are), and as long as there aren't too 
many of them.

But I have a book... Dentelle au fuseau/dentelle du Puy (M. Fouriscot, 
J. Petiot, H. Jourde, M. Jourde)... It uses colour -- to show the paths 
of pairs/threads  in some instances, as an "extra". For diagramms, it 
uses B&W symbols...  *Two pages* of them; *55* -- ingenious but not 
self-explanatory -- symbols. The meaning of each is explained -- in 
French. My lace vocabulary of French is expanding rapidly (as is lace 
vocabulary in several other languages ) but, otherwise, I know only 
one word; it starts with "m", is not used in polite society (back in 
Poland, we "euphemised it" by saying it was "General Cambronne's 
word"), and I use it with abandon whenever I come accross one of the 
diagramms in that book...

For us dyslexics, having the sloped symbols would be really nice!  We 
just make our threads be that way, no need to remember which is our 
right/left hand.
For us non-dyslexics (but memory-deficient folk) it would be nice too, 
for the same reasons; you just imitate what you see :) But that's good 
only for stitch *description*, not for stitch *representation* (as in a 
diagram)... For diagrams, I'd still like to see colour, if *much 
reduced* as to shading.  Shading could be replaced with cross-hatchings 
and a *few* (please, OIDFA ) symbols/conventions...

And I truly don't believe there will ever be a universal code. [...]
Some [...] want to be lace purists--"This is the
way I was taught, this is the way lacemakers 500 years ago were 
taught, it
should be the way people are still taught."
500 yrs ago, lacemakers got a pricking, and that was all; no photos of 
the finished lace, no info on threads, no nothing. They were also 
professionals, who got *training*, if only in a single technique (well, 
500 yrs ago, there weren't all that many techniques *to* teach ).

If one wanted to be a true purist (and ignore present-day realities and 
*possibilities*), one would assemble a school, and teach *only* by 
direct contact, and only plaits and, maybe, tallies... Drawing all 
their designs "by eye" (no easily available graph paper)... Making 
copies of the prickings *only* via pricking through old copies (no such 
thing as photocopy)... None of the *living* teachers would put up with 
that, if they were told to be *consistent* in their defence of 
"tradition"... :)

BCC has a tradition of its own; it may be only a bit over a 100 yrs 
old, but 100yrs is reckoned "an antique" in most cultures. One can 
admire an antique, one can continue to try and reproduce it as closely 
as possible, *when* posible... One can also *change* things, when 
there's a good reason to -- who of you would like to live without 
running water (much less without electricity and computers )? My 
Eng.lit.  prof. at the Warsaw U. was fond of deriding the Romantics' 
desire to "go back to nature" and their idea of the "natural man"; 
"natural man", he used to say, "never combs his hair. Nor does he cut 
it, or his nails. For bathing, he uses rain, and wears his clothes 
while at it".

If we went back 500 yrs, we wouldn't even *need* books (with or without 
colour); how many individual lacemakers could afford to own any?

Re colour blindness... All the examples given were *male*; is 
colour-blindness one of those things (like hemophilia, I think) which 
women *carry*, but only men *get*? If so, the number of lacemakers 
excluded because of diagrams using colour in publications (books and 
magazines), would be marginal; not all men are colour-blind and how 
many of them are likely to take up lacemaking?
-
Tamara P Duvall
Lexington, Virginia,  USA
Formerly of Warsaw, Poland
http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd/

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[lace] Cross & Twist

[Janis Savage]

Hello all

Tamara said:

There's no confusion at all about the "Cross"; the *term* seems to be
used "accross the board", and, even though it doesn't always start with
a C in all languages, it does in *most*. In a pinch, it could be
substituted by X, and it would still be understood by all (well, "all"
as in:"all from the Christian countries"... But that's where *most* of
the lace is being made)... I wonder if there isn't, somewhere, a word
or a symbol that could be as easily recognised to describe *either* the
twist *or* the turn...
---
One of my lacemaking friends had her first lessons in Paris, with a very
strict teacher.
She had copious notes describing each stitch and ground in detail.
Cross & Twist were denoted as X & O.
So a half stitch is XO
and a cloth stitch, CTC becomes XOX
Torchon ground is XO.XO
Double torchon ground is XOXO.XOXO etc. etc.
It makes a very neat shorthand when taking down notes or explaining how to
do a stitch.

Janis Savage
t/a The Lace Place
South Africa
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [lace] tatting thread

[Steph Peters]

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:16:43 -0600, you wrote:

>When I was in our local needlework shop today, the owner suggested that I
>try Wildflowers thread by Caron for tatting.  Has anyone tried this and how
>does it work up?

Yes I've tried it.  The colours in the thread I used were quite muted, so
the effect was pleasant.  The thread is similar in type to a perle, but
considerably thinner.  I did find that making rings stressed it somewhat so
that it began to fray; the thread is a little soft for shuttle tatting but
can be managed with care.  If you can needle tat, then I'd recommend using a
needle as there is less wear on the thread.
--
Blessed are the censors; they shall inhibit the earth
Steph Peters  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tatting, lace & stitching page 

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[lace] tatting thread

[palmhaven]

When I was in our local needlework shop today, the owner suggested that I
try Wildflowers thread by Caron for tatting.  Has anyone tried this and how
does it work up?

Sylvia Andrews
tip of Texas

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RE: [lace] making cord

[Panza, Robin]

>>>From: rick &sharon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Can someone help me?  I once had the directions for making a twisted cord
out of embroidery threadDoes someone out there know how to do this?
We're starting a class making lace amulet purses and I thought this would
come in handy for the neck cord. <<<

Take out up to a foot of thread.  Carefully unwind the rest of the skein and
fold it in quarters (half, then half again).  Pull the spare piece through
the folded-over threads and tie this spare piece to anything sturdy.  Or
give it to a friend to hold *tightly*.  The other end has one loop and two
ends; it's easier to work with it if you tie an overhand knot so you're
dealing with a single end.  Twist like crazy (you can put a pencil through
and spin the pencil, or even better would be to use an egg beater or drill,
if you can attach the thread to the implement).  Keep it straight (doesn't
have to be taut, but not saggy).  When you're sure you've put more than
enough twist on, bring one end toward the other A LITTLE and see how much it
twists over on itself.  Not nearly there, are you?  Twist like crazy and
when you're sure there's 'way too much twist, test it again.  Continue
twisting till *you're* a bit crazy and your friend's about to walk away, and
test again.  

When it merrily twists back on itself and spirals nicely, grab it halfway
between the two ends, bring the ends together (hand it to your friend or
have your friend hand it to you--work that out in advance) and carefully
hold them evenly.  Now you can let go the middle and watch it twist up on
itself the whole way.  You can brush it down with your free hand, to get the
spiralling even and unkink any branches that appeared.  Knot the ends that
are in your hand so it doesn't untwist.

When you go to use it, you can put glue on the cord *all* the way around
just below the bulky knot.  When the glue dries you can cut through the
glue, which gives you ends that don't have bulky knots on them.

Using a nearly-full skein folded in quarters gives you a nice thickness and
nice length for a name tag or amulet bag.  Some will want it a bit shorter,
then glue and cut the length you want.

Robin P.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
http://www.pittsburghlace.8m.com 

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[lace] making cord

Can someone help me?  I once had the directions for making a twisted cord
out of embroidery thread..haven't a clue what happened to them :(  It was
very handy to make a matching cord for an embroidered pincushion etc.  I
vaguely remember that you started with about eight times the finished length
of floss and then started twisting around a doorknob.  It was very nice to
match cord with the embroidery colours.  Does someone out there know how to
do this?  We're starting a class making lace amulet purses and I thought
this would come in handy for the neck cord.  Thanks.   Sharon on dull but
warmer Vancouver Island

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[lace] Irish Crochet Lace

[Hopkins Family]

Thanks to all for your encouragement and tips. I will try subscribing to the
irish lace list. I appreciate all your help.

Sharon in UT

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[lace] Case against colour coding

[Jean Nathan]

Tamara wrote:


and Robin replied:



Not my experience either. The last school I taught at put on a play where
the stage had to be painted with a huge rainbow. Three male teachers (two
brothers and the son of one of them) were doing the painting and asked that
the names of the colours be written on the tins - they were all colour blind
and had no idea what the colours of the paints were. Only in that school
would all the painters be colour blind!!!

Jean in Poole

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[lace] Re: Hedgehog Lacemakers

[Madelin Holtkamp]

I hope any one with information about this will post to the list.  I would
also be interested in a California retreat.

Thanks--
Madelin in Ukiah, CA



>I would like info on the retreat next summer. >

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RE: [lace] Re: a case against colour coding

[Panza, Robin]

>>>From: Tamara P. Duvall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
an otherwise "innocent" honeycomb hole will have a CTCTT, instead of the CTT
before the first pin (afterwards, it's business as usual)... An all black
diagram -- unless it's a *thread by thread* one (and, personally, I don't
wanna "go there" ) will *not* show it; <<<

Not so.  Those odd exceptions can be marked with a small dot next to the
stitch.  Warns you that "here comes that special spot again."

>>>Only dogs are truly colour blind, and we're not even sure about them :) 
People have trouble distinguishing between *pairs* of colours; they do 
not see everything as black/white/greyRed/green (and, often, yellow) 
are the the colours of the street-lights, so anyone familiar with those 
will have made adjustments.<<<

That's not been my experience!  Granted, I've mostly known red-green
colorblind people (most were ornithologists, oddly enough!).  They say if
someone TELLS them "this is red" and then they concentrate, they can sort of
see it, but can't if they're not *already* sure.  I had a teacher who
pointed to a duck and we had to name it (on a test).  In order to be sure we
were naming the correct bird, one student asked, "the one with the green
head?"  The teacher was shocked--all these years he'd thought mallards had
black heads.

Street lights are learned by position, not by seeing the actual color.
Color-blind people have a devil of a time when a street light is turned
sideways, and get into accidents if they aren't familiar with the light in
question.

Robin P.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
http://www.pittsburghlace.8m.com 

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RE: [lace] a case against colour coding

[Panza, Robin]

>>>From: Bev Walker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
While colour coding might simplify matters for some, it complicates for
others. And woe is the colour blind ;)<<<

That worried me, too.  We'd be shutting a chunk of people out of lacemaking
if all our patterns stuck to a color code.  Add to that the printing expense
(some books will *not* get printed, because the author can't find a
publisher who will accept the added expense), and we're losing patterns as
well as lacemakers.  

And I truly don't believe there will ever be a universal code.  There will
always be people who, for whatever reason, don't want to use the code as-is
when they publish.  Some have trouble seeing the yellow and believe that's
true for most people.  Some have trouble distinguishing between purple and
blue, or purple and black and believe that applies to most.  Some find all
those hatch-marks confusing the pattern and add some colors.  Some just
don't like the "newfangled" code and want to be lace purists--"This is the
way I was taught, this is the way lacemakers 500 years ago were taught, it
should be the way people are still taught."

call me a curmudgeon,
Robin P.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
http://www.pittsburghlace.8m.com 

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RE: [lace] Twist and turn

[Panza, Robin]

>>>From: Tamara P. Duvall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I had some problems deciphering that (could be because I'm not a 
native speaker, and have to *stop and think* what the last letter of a 
word might be)...<<<

No, just straight memorization.  
C= 2 over 3; N= 2 and 4 over 1 and 2.  You don't need to associate it with
words unless you want to.

Or \ = cross = 2 over 3; 
// = twist = 2/4 over 1/3; 
/ = right over left, single thread.
This would be better than using an X for either of them, since both stitches
produce Xs.  It's just which leg is on top that differs.

Therefore, torchon ground = CNpCN (or \ // p \ //); point ground = CNNN (\
// // //) (the 2-bobbin twists would be printed close together in a
book/article, not as far apart as in ASCII).  For us dyslexics, having the
sloped symbols would be really nice!  We just make our threads be that way,
no need to remember which is our right/left hand.

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Re: [lace] Shetland Museum photo archive

[Pamela Thompson]

Avital
I was able to enlarge the photos a little and photo P05832 is fascinating - a detail 
of a knitted lace shawl. It looks so much like cobwebs - just as if you took your hand 
and scooped up a large cobweb. It is so fine. The work is unbelievable to me. Thanks 
for the photo opt.
Pam   Take a moment and view the photos.
http://photos.shetland-museum.org.uk/ShetlandMuseum/controller
This is the photo and info I am referring to:
Photo Number:P05832Short Title:nullPhotographer:Jack PetersonDate of 
Photo:1952Parish:DunrossnessDescription:Fine lace christening shawl, said to have been 
made by Betty Mouat, Scatness, c. 1850. (B.M. of drifting to Norway fame, 1886.) Close 
up details
 

"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The Shetland Museum has expanded its site considerably and now has a photo
archive with over 25,000 photos, includng hundreds of lace shawls:
http://photos.shetland-museum.org.uk/ShetlandMuseum/controller.
Unfortunately, since they're trying to get you to buy the images from them,
you can only see the thumbnail and medium-sized images, but it's still
worth checking out.

Avital



"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:The Shetland Museum has expanded its 
site considerably and now has a photo
archive with over 25,000 photos, includng hundreds of lace shawls:
http://photos.shetland-museum.org.uk/ShetlandMuseum/controller.
Unfortunately, since they're trying to get you to buy the images from them,
you can only see the thumbnail and medium-sized images, but it's still
worth checking out.

Avital


mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

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[lace] Shetland Museum photo archive

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

The Shetland Museum has expanded its site considerably and now has a photo
archive with over 25,000 photos, includng hundreds of lace shawls:
http://photos.shetland-museum.org.uk/ShetlandMuseum/controller.
Unfortunately, since they're trying to get you to buy the images from them,
you can only see the thumbnail and medium-sized images, but it's still
worth checking out.

Avital


mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

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