[lace] Valuing machine-made lace (very long)

2004-01-01 Thread Tamara P. Duvall
Gentle Spiders,

I agree with most that has been said so far -- the overal design, the 
precision of detail, the condition and the availability are probably 
the main criteria in establishing a value of any piece of visual art, 
and that includes machine-made lace. I might also, possibly, have a 
half-penny-worth (stretched over many words, as usual g) to add to 
where to *start* valuing such lace.

20+ years ago, I visited the G-Street Fabric store; at the time, it was 
still in DC, still on G-Street, and consisted of one, 5-story (if I 
remember correctly), building. The top floor of it was permanently 
under lock and key, and you could access it only with a minder (a 
trusted employee of the store). That's where all the super-dooper, 
designer-destined stuff was -- the best silks, the best wools, the 
most interesting (real silk, and cut in patterns) velvets. And the best 
lace. Machine made, but not of the WalMart quality, and priced to match 
:)

I agree with Adele that few people are likely to be aware of the limits 
of the lace machines, and are not going to be overmuch impressed by 
exceptional use of the technique. OTOH, Devon's DH isn't too far off 
when he suggests pricing by the yard as one of the criteria... :)

All of the laces (all imports, from France, as I remember) were of 
superiour quality (I could tell *that* much, even though I knew nothing 
of lacemaking -- by hand or machine -- at the time); none had obvious 
faults like stiffness due to artificial fibers, or bits of un-dissolved 
(or no carefully trimmed) threads... But, all things being equal, the 
wider the lace, the more expensive it was -- in *geometric* proportion; 
by the time you got to the dress width (36/90cm), a yard of *cotton* 
lace was running into hundreds of dollars (as compared to about $12 for 
excellent quality, 45 wide, silk, double weave -- satin with crepe 
back)...

Stands to reason, even if you know nothing about lace-machines and 
little about design (other than being sure what it is you like and 
don't g). Given the same fineness of thread and workmanship, the 
wider the lace, the longer the repeat -- ie, there's more thought and 
effort going into both the overal design and into setting the machine's 
cogs.

Now, consider a piece of lace which has *no repeats* at all -- every 
bit in it is unique to the piece.  Add to that the destruction of the 
original cards which makes reproduction just about impossible (the 
Limited Edition principle. DH collects prints -- once the 
plate/stone/whatever is destroyed, that's it for the piece, like 
breaking the mould is for 3-D objects). Add to that the Historical 
Collectible value (I agree with Adele; lacemakers wouldn't *begin* to 
be a good market for something like the B of B panel). Add Age of the 
piece (if known). Provenance, if known (and if sufficiently exalted 
g), would be icing on the cake  :)

So, my advice would be to start with looking at superiour fabric stores 
which cater to well-known clothes designers and which carry 
lace-by-the-yard, and compare the prices of those first -- those are 
the prices at which good quality, but modern and not unique 
machine-made lace is being sold at; the bread-and-butter as it were. 
From there, the jump to cake ought to be somewhat easier.

Re the George Washington panel that Devon mentioned: I wonder...

When I was a child, machine-made lace was very popular for curtains. 
Most of it was just by the yard, repeat after repeat (even if wide), 
just like any other fabric. Some of it was also sold by the yard, but 
woven in panels, for cafe-type curtains.  There'd be nothing much 
between the panels, but the threads running down to the next panel; you 
cut the fabric through those threads, in the middle of the no man's 
land (ie between the design parts) and finished (as best you could 
g) both the top and the bottom. Those were more expensive than the 
running patterns, because the design was more elaborate and also 
self-contained (an immitation selvage was woven into both top and 
bottom; sometimes they had a left and right orientation).

My Mother knew very little about machine-made lace, but she had worked 
in a textile factory as a teenager/young adult. According to her, 
before the war (when everything -- except thepolitical system -- was 
better g), there had been curtain panels made which were special -- 
 on those, the machine *started and finished each panel separately*.  
That required threading up the machine for every one of them, and 
ending the weaving in a different way than usual. She said that there 
were never many of those made in a single pattern, as setting up the 
machine every time took up so much time, but that they sold -- to the 
very rich --  at exorbitant prices, *because* of that; the 
blood-sucking capitalists (g) liked to be assured that the hoi-polloi 
wouldn't have the same thing... She told me I was unlikely to ever 
*see* one of those, but, all the same, she told me how to look for 

Re: [lace] Valuing machine-made lace (very long)

2004-01-01 Thread Dmt11home
In a message dated 1/1/2004 8:57:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So, perhaps, the George Washington panel is something that had been 
made along the same lines? Special, but curtains nevertheless?
I am not going to pretend that I understood what Mr. Mason was saying when he 
made the remark about the Pusher machine being used as a Lace Curtain 
machine. However, I dimly recall reading that the lace curtain machine makes a lace 
where many of the threads run at parallel to the selvidge and other threads 
sort of wind back and forth between these threads giving almost the right angle 
effect of filet. The Pusher machine, I thought, was distinguished because the 
threads could traverse, that is run diagonally as is done in hand made lace. 
So when he said it was a Pusher machine being used as a lace curtain machine, 
it blew my mind. Actually the George Washington is a very fine piece, not like 
a curtain at all. It is about a foot in size, in fine black thread, and has 
very detailed and delicate shading looking like a very fine portrait carefully 
colored into very fine graph paper, entirely composed of tiny squares of 
varying density. I can't recall whether the edges were cut or it was individually 
threaded up. But Mr. Mason called for a ruler and insisted on calculating the 
threads per inch, which was an unusually large number if I surmise correctly.
I think the Battle of Britain is a lace curtain machine product. Nottingham 
is known particularly for the Lace Curtain Machine-although again, it is by no 
means confined to curtains. I think a lot of tablecloths are made using this 
process as well as other things.
Devon 

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