Re: [lace] thread/yarn question
"One trouble with using yards per pound is that thickness (density of the fabric, with a given needle size) and weight (pounds per yard) are only correlated when comparing the same fiber. Now that there are so many materials used for yarn (many different animals, a variety of plants, and all sorts of synthetics), the yarn you want to substitute for a pattern may have the same ypp but be totally unsuitable in the density of the resulting fabric." Robin *** I agree with your comment, but that applies to most everything, as most beginning knitters don't consider "hand" (which includes drape), much less making something of a different color or fiber than the model garment. Knitting (and esp. lace knitting/knitted lace) is so much more 3D than some are used to thinking, as a designer is always thinking of the end product and how it will look on the wearer, vs. choosing a design one likes visually, or because it is a "knit" they want to or think they can do. The drape and hand is a critical part of determining that end result. The old rule in choosing a needle size, was to begin with the same diameter as the yarn (though at that time, things were knit more tightly), and move up in size from there. With lace, there is a very loose rule of at least 3 sizes more than typically used with that weight of yarn, but the stitch pattern itself, hand of the fiber, along with the design and personage, application/use, and body type of the person (even seasonal considerations), affect that outcome. Naturally if you use sea-cell, your garment will change at a smaller percentage than with a springy sock yarn, which will stretch out to lose all of that, and increase size dramatically. Then again someone may want a sturdy functional piece in say worsted, that is machine laundered and put on again, sans dressing, so the needle size will have to be considerably larger than is typical (and need to be processed that way to determine the outcome accurately.) The main thing is test-knitting (which for decades people tended to avoid, and could get away with more of doing baby clothes and afghans). It becomes tantamount to the success of the garment, and especially so with lace (critical criteria is that it is wet dressed as a part of that process.) So many lace knitters state how surprised they are at how the garment has changed once washed/wet, and dressed/blocked. The general rule is that a wet dressed lace garment will increase in size approximately 30% or more. Shawls are often dressed tauter than say a lace sweater or dress. Lots of variables, which most find adds to the thrill (and of course shawls and scarves are no-fit garments, which also contributes to their popularity.) Of course you knew all of that, but if it is of general interest or help to someone... Best, Susan Reishus www.SusanReishusDesigns.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] thread/yarn question
International yarn standards have tried to be created in the recent past for
knitting yarns, and most superfine, include fingering/sock as the heaviest in
that category, which is very roughly equivalent to #10 crochet cotton. They
are evidenced by recent publications, the same as your quotes.
Size 3 needles to me, would indicate something roughly half the thickness of
fingering, and that category often stops just short of cobweb weight.
Sometimes it is easiest to look up online, the yarn the designer used, and
then look for similar yardage/weight comps. I would suggest something like
Jaggerspun Zephyr for that pattern. (Incidentally, you could knit the Forest
Path Stole by Faine Letoutchaia in cobweb, as I remember the
width of it
being something like 22", which is more than ample than most
since the
average base of neck to waist measurement is 17", so many
stoles are in that
18-20" range.)
Note also, that wet dressing/blocking the swatch is nearly paramount in
determining outcome, especially with lace knitting. Many knitters for
instance, use Jaggerspun Zephyr with size 4 needles, and aren't tight
knitters.
There are laceweights such as Misti Alpaca, and cousins of it (often blended
with silk) sold by other vendors, but the halo means you need to 'up' the
needle size again.
In the old tradition; fingering doubled was sport, and sport doubled was
worsted, and worsted doubled was Aran. The term 'baby' can be confusing, as
some list it slightly thinner than fingering (now including sock), some had it
slightly thicker, and often baby yarn via cute names from vendors, was
actually sport (or a baby bulky). Most include baby now within the
fingering/sock category, and 4 ply from the UK, is between US fingering and
sport weight.
With knitting's resurgence, the lines have blurred so much with export/import
and popularity, misunderstanding each other's terms, etc., wpi (wraps per
inch) were not a clear determinate, so they went to this newer system. There
are those pushing that yarn be categorized specifically like threads, more
like ypp (yards per pound) and finer determinates (the terminology escapes
me), but most feel that would be overwhelming and off-putting to the average
yarn consumer who crochets and/or knits.
HTH,
Susan Reishus
***
"in Brenda's article on yarns, the "official" numbering system lists
"fingering" under #0 (lace weight), #1 (sock weight), and #3 (DK weight).
I think decades ago (in the US), the main categories of yarn were "worsted"
(4-ply), "sport" (3-ply), and "baby" (2-ply). I also remember the term
"fingering", but don't remember if it was sized with...("Forest Path Stole" by
Faina Letoutchaia, in the book "The Best of Interweave Knits") that has me
confused. It says to use "fingering weight (#1 Super Fine)" and size 3 (3.25
mm) needles..." Robin P
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Re: [lace] thread/yarn question
Brenda Paternoster wrote:
>From what I understand of the American terms for knitting yarns 'sock yarn and
>fingering are similar, if not the same.
That's the way I've understood the terms. However, in Brenda's article on
yarns, the "official" numbering system lists "fingering" under #0 (lace
weight), #1 (sock weight), and #3 (DK weight).
I think decades ago (in the US), the main categories of yarn were "worsted"
(4-ply), "sport" (3-ply), and "baby" (2-ply). I also remember the term
"fingering", but don't remember if it was sized with "sport" or with "baby" in
those days. In those days, yarn was either wool or acrylic, and there were
none of the eyelash, lurex, furry, etc. things we can get now.
You'd think the new number system would make it easy. But I am looking at a
knitted lace pattern ("Forest Path Stole" by Faina Letoutchaia, in the book
"The Best of Interweave Knits") that has me confused. It says to use
"fingering weight (#1 Super Fine)" and size 3 (3.25 mm) needles. Now, I was
just knitting with sock yarn on #3 needles and it's not lacy at all--if you
stretch the swatch (like blocking) you can see the holes, but the stitches
between the holes are quite solid. The pictures of this shawl show a much
lacier piece, with a lot of visibility even in the "solid" areas. It has to be
done with lace weight yarn (#0), not sock yarn (#1). Crazy!
Robin P.
Los Angeles, California, USA
robinl...@socal.rr.com
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Re: [lace] thread/yarn question
>From what I understand of the American terms for knitting yarns 'sock yarn and >fingering are similar, if not the same. I vaguely remember from years ago when my Grandma used to knit socks for my Dad she used 3 ply wool which was described on the label as 'fingering' but I never really knew what it meant. I *think* fingering was originally about the way the wool was spun rather than about thickness; much the same as worsted really means wool which is carded and combed and therefore smother than wool which is just carded, but in American terminology it now now relates to the thickness of the finished yarn. Another website (American) which lists various yarns according to the recommended finished knitting tension is http://www.yarnforward.com/yarn.html Brenda On 18 Aug 2010, at 21:26, Margery Allcock wrote: > So is "sock yarn" the same thing as "fingering"? Brenda in Allhallows www.brendapaternoster.me.uk - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
RE: [lace] thread/yarn question
Hello to One & All! In a word...Yes. Fingerling & sock yarn are the same sized yarn. On the needles: Civil War Circular Shawl - cobweb wt yarn with 214,889 sts total in the shawl. Working on a pair of socks in fingerling/sock wt to submit to Knitty.com for their next issue. Working on a pink ribbon BL bookmark for my etsy store. Make it happen! Susie Rose On Wed Aug 18th, 2010 1:26 PM PDT Margery Allcock wrote: >That's really useful, and interesting - thank you, Brenda. > >So is "sock yarn" the same thing as "fingering"? > >Margery. >= >margerybu...@o2.co.uk in North Hertfordshire, UK >= > > > > >> -Original Message- >> From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] >> On Behalf Of Brenda Paternoster >> Sent: Wednesday 18 August 2010 18:44 >> To: Whitham, Irene & Steve >> Cc: lace@arachne.com >> Subject: Re: [lace] thread/yarn question >> >> Hello Irene >> >> Have a look at >> http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/lace/knittingyarns.htm >> >> Brenda >> >> On 18 Aug 2010, at 15:42, Whitham, Irene & Steve wrote: >> >> > >> > Could someone please be so kind and tell me how many wraps >> per cm, fingering >> > or sock weight yarn is? >> > >> > I have a pattern calling for either and have a nice linen >> that is 10 wraps per >> > cm. >> >> Brenda in Allhallows >> www.brendapaternoster.me.uk >> >> - >> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing >> the line: >> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to >> arachnemodera...@yahoo.com >> > >- >To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: >unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to >arachnemodera...@yahoo.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
RE: [lace] thread/yarn question
That's really useful, and interesting - thank you, Brenda. So is "sock yarn" the same thing as "fingering"? Margery. = margerybu...@o2.co.uk in North Hertfordshire, UK = > -Original Message- > From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] > On Behalf Of Brenda Paternoster > Sent: Wednesday 18 August 2010 18:44 > To: Whitham, Irene & Steve > Cc: lace@arachne.com > Subject: Re: [lace] thread/yarn question > > Hello Irene > > Have a look at > http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/lace/knittingyarns.htm > > Brenda > > On 18 Aug 2010, at 15:42, Whitham, Irene & Steve wrote: > > > > > Could someone please be so kind and tell me how many wraps > per cm, fingering > > or sock weight yarn is? > > > > I have a pattern calling for either and have a nice linen > that is 10 wraps per > > cm. > > Brenda in Allhallows > www.brendapaternoster.me.uk > > - > To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing > the line: > unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to > arachnemodera...@yahoo.com > - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] thread/yarn question
Brenda, thank you so much! Irene Whitham Surrey, BC - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
Re: [lace] thread/yarn question
Hello Irene Have a look at http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/lace/knittingyarns.htm Brenda On 18 Aug 2010, at 15:42, Whitham, Irene & Steve wrote: > > Could someone please be so kind and tell me how many wraps per cm, fingering > or sock weight yarn is? > > I have a pattern calling for either and have a nice linen that is 10 wraps per > cm. Brenda in Allhallows www.brendapaternoster.me.uk - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachnemodera...@yahoo.com
