[lace-chat] Novels
Hi All, Further to the 'Chat' on the books that we liked, I asked my daughter-in-law's sister, who is a librarian in Colchester, to find the books that had been recommended, with a 'crafty' theme to the whodunnits. I thought the name of the first book was Crewel Work - but as Clare cannot find the book at all under that title, and as I seem also to have got the author's name incorrect too, she is not having too much luck. Could one of you out there tell me the name of the author please, and any info. you might think is helpful as the books sound interesting, and I'd like to try them! Thanks in advance to you all, Carol - in a very cold, but very bright Suffolk UK. To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] novel about the bubonic plague in England
In a message dated 3/3/2004 2:24:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Talking about bubonic plague...:-)), one of you might be able to help me! Here's another one - The Vizard Mask by Diana Norman (ISBN 0718100174) is set in the Plague and Great Fire of the 1660s and also the Monmouth revolt - very good period atmospherics Liz Regards Liz Beecher I'm A HREF=http://journals.aol.com/thelacebee/thelacebee;blogging/A now - see what it's all about To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] St Catherine lace
Lori 'Blue Lace Flower', or Trachymene coerulea is a native plant of western australia. It grows in the coastal sand. It is an annual and flowers in the early summer. Sometimes the whole area is thick with the plants and it looks spectacularas the flowers are a gorgeous sky blue. It is a member of the carrot family (Apiacea) and when the flowers finish the seeds are held in the flower head so it is quite easy to collect and grow the seeds. I grew them for quite a long time but eventually I forgot to collect the seeds and they died out in my garden. You do get the odd white plant amongst the blue. Try http://florabase.calm.wa.gov.au/browse/photo?f=281level=sid=6266 and you should get a photo. You can see the flowers are domed rather than flat. Regards Helen Frederiksen In Perth WA To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Aboriginal oral tradition
OK so this is politics and a very emotive subject. I don't think that we current Australians have anything to answer for. Not that I agree with what has happened to the Australian Aboriginal people. There are two things I want to say. Firstly. We are looking at history from where we stand at the moment, and what we see is truly unacceptable to us in the 21st century. The problem is that we, the current generation are not to blame for what happened and therefore have nothing to answer for. By way of illustration: My wife and I are very blest adoptive parents. In the early 1960s when we adopted our children, the shame of illegitimacy was very real and adoption was the accepted course of action for the vast majority of illegitimate births. Nowadays it is the exception to adopt your illegitimate child, and even from where I stand I think that is quite right. From where we stand in history adoption is not necessarily the best for the illegitimate child. My next door neighbour, a Dutch person by birth, had one of the so called stolen generation placed with her and brought up this aboriginal lady to have a good education and a professional working life; something that she would not have had if she were with her natural parents. ( I am not fully aware of her original parental circumstances) Yes, I agree that she did not have her natural right of being brought up with her biological parents, that yes, she has missed out on her traditions and heritage. But talk to her about it and she will tell you that it was the best thing that happened to her! She does not miss the kind of upbringing that she would have had with her natural parents. I know that this itself rases some issues of aboriginal treatment. Secondly the exploration of the world in the 15th - 18 th centuries also involved conquest. The empire nations (there were many of them not just England) felt that the way of life in Europe could bring many advantages to the conquered nations and we also accept that there were many advantages to the empire nations too. In earlier time that the Islamic nations conquered and converted many countries to Islam in the belief that it was good for the country they had conquered. Similarly the empire nations thought that their religion and way of life was of benefit to the aboriginal peoples that they conquered. That the conquered nations did not like what was happening to them is quite understandable, that they fought there conquerors is an inevitable correlate of occupation (Witness Iraq). The aboriginal peoples were bound to lose such a conflict. Certainly the massacred aboriginals was unfair and horrible from where we stand, but that is how wars were fought in those days. Sadly the modern world has not learned anything from history. Currently sectarian and religious strife is tearing apart this world. Genocide rears its head on a regular basis. In actual fact, nothing mush has changed at all in those few hundred years. To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Lacemakers
Too bad they didn't include pictures or video! Avital I was idly looking for references to Lacemakers in art using google and came across this most unusual oneg http://suem18.home.att.net/instructions/lacemaker.html can anyone top that? jenny barron To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Happy Birthday
Does anyone know how to write Happy Birthday in Ukranian? My DIL's grandmother will be 80 soon. My son said that everytime they go to visit the grandparents ask about my DH and I and he thought we should send a card. Also one of the few relatives still in Europe on my father's side (only 4 of them over there) will be having a 100th birthday soon. Am I correct in saying Alles Gute zum 100th Geburstag ? Thanks Lee Daly in New Jersey USA who only knows enough of another language to recognize what it is when spoken To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Aboriginal oral tradition
In a message dated 3/3/2004 7:18:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK so this is politics and a very emotive subject. I don't think that we current Australians have anything to answer for. Not that I agree with what has happened to the Australian Aboriginal people. There are two things I want to say. rest of messaged snipped Brian, You've just hit on the same problem that is faced by us all on subjects such as slavery and the holocaust. I have two stock answers for any accusation that I am to blame for these events 1) I am sorry that they happened, they were wrong but me, personally I am not to blame, my family, personally were not to blame. But this does not stop me from being sympathetic to the historical suffering but does not mean that I am responsible for anything more than educating others to prevent it happening again. If that doesn't work I usually get flippant and say: 2) I'm sorry, I wasn't alive then to have done anything about it. My main circle of aquantances are Orthodox Jews and regular as clock work they bring up the holocaust and how 'little' the UK did about it. This is worse when it is brought up by people my own age (under 40) who weren't alive then either. When they say the usual 'what were you (the Brits) doing about the holocaust' I always say the same thing; 'well I'm sorry my Dad didnt' do anything about the holocaust, he was too busy fighting the Japanese in Burma to give it his full attention. Oh and my mum was only 12 and had just lost her father. What were your parents doing?' It usually gets an apology at that point. I had a (white) guy have a go at me about slavery once. As I pointed out to him, none of my family have ever been invovled with or profited from slavery as my father's side of the family were, until my father's birth, famers in Surrey (not a big growth area of slavery) and my mother's side of the family were all musicians. Of course, we don't mention my sister's second husband who's family were on the privateer side in the 1600s ... no we don't mention that. Liz Regards Liz Beecher I'm A HREF=http://journals.aol.com/thelacebee/thelacebee;blogging/A now - see what it's all about To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: [lace-chat] Aboriginal oral tradition
How noble of you to represent all of Britain. I'm sure that your father's military career must be a great comfort to those who lost family in the Holocaust. Avital From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] My main circle of aquantances are Orthodox Jews and regular as clock work they bring up the holocaust and how 'little' the UK did about it. This is worse when it is brought up by people my own age (under 40) who weren't alive then either. When they say the usual 'what were you (the Brits) doing about the holocaust' I always say the same thing; 'well I'm sorry my Dad didn't do anything about the holocaust, he was too busy fighting the Japanese in Burma to give it his full attention. Oh and my mum was only 12 and had just lost her father. What were your parents doing?' It usually gets an apology at that point. To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Re: lace-chat-digest V2004 #53
Same bug is responsible for both of those forms, though, as well as a septicemic version that I heard was more rare, but a *lot* faster at killing people--that was the form that people could have and just drop dead from in a few hours --sue Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:01:44 - From: Karen Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [lace-chat] RE the plague It is my understanding that historians believe there were two plagues responsible for the deaths in the 14th century. The bubonic plague, carried by rats was the preferable one to have by all accounts, as about 70% of patients died. The fleas died off in cold weather, so it would not spread easily in winter. Also, fleas were unikely to pick up the infection from humans. Th pnuemonic plague on the other hand was airborn, from patients coughing blood and germs. It killed everybody, and was not affected by weather. To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Aboriginal oral tradition
Brian et al, I would certainly agree with the adoption bit - our daughter Claire is a greatly-loved adoptive daughter, of whom we are very, very proud but, she has no interest at all in finding her 'natural' mother, as she can't imagine why her mother was able to bring herself to give Claire away. My husband and I wondered whether she would change her mind when she was pregnant - one of the problems of being adopted is that the 'adoptee' has no medical records! - but that hardened her attitude even further, especially when Dylan - now eight years of age - was born. Claire thinks that adoption was the best thing for her, as she feels that she would have languished in a children's home if she hadn't been adopted, and quite possibly wouldn't have done anything like as well academically etc. And if one thinks of the option of abortion, then adoption is surely better! So - how thankful we were when Claire decided to keep Dylan - the tenets of a lifetime's faith cannot be overthrown just to suit our own conveniences - but that doesn't change the fact that we were and are jolly glad that we had the chance to adopt Claire. But - it is difficult to try and convince her that, even thirty years ago when she was born, things were so different regarding the stigma of being the child of an unwed mother. I have divided feelings - I cannot imagine life without our grandchild Dylan, but thank God every day for Claire, so can't tell anyone the extent of our gratitude that we had the chance to adopt her and bring her up. As Brian said, though - we cannot judge historical events by the standards of today. We have recently been hearing a great deal about the orphans (and some of the small children weren't orphans either) from children's homes like Dr Barnardo's, who were shipped off to Australia, Canada and New Zealand just after the Second World War. (There was a series on BBC Radio 4) Some of those children - now in their 70s and 80s - were interviewed and, almost without exception, and even though some had done extremely well in their 'adoptive' countries, regretted the fact of their being shipped off. Of course, some were brutally treated, in their new countries, by sadistic and cruel people, which made the whole situation even more shocking, but at the time, just after the War, it was felt by 'the powers-that-be' that the children in homes and institutions would be better off in countries which were not wracked by rationing, and where a 'better life' awaited them. These people were doing their best in an unpleasant situation and, although it (probably) wouldn't happen now, at the time people thought of it as 'a good thing' for the children. So even relatively close events can be disastrous, even though those decisions were made for the best of reasons. Carol - in a cold but dry and sometimes sunny Suffolk UK. Subject: [lace-chat] Aboriginal oral tradition OK so this is politics and a very emotive subject. To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] RE:books/crafty mysteries
Carol: Monica Ferris wrote Crewel World. Cheers, Helen, Aussie Librarian living in Denver To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] retrospective wrongs et al
My Dad was in the N.Z. Airforce and spent time fighting in England, before being invalided home after suffering a duodenal ulcer.. yes, stress was a very real issue for the forces, and they also suffered for years after the war. I personally do not believe that any nations benefits from war, but at times there appears no alternative in the face of what appears a greater evil. In N.Z. we also have reprospective wrongs being compensated for, but it seems to be never ending, with the same claims being made by each consecutive generation. It becomes very frustrating for the hoi polloi to see this occuring, and we have a politician who has faced the issue, and says that we need to allocate resources on a basis of need, and his ratings have tripled... and you should see the government scrambling! Regards Maxine in a cooling, autumnal N.Z. where it has stopped raining :-) To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Re: Crewel World
Hi All, Since I'm trying to NOT buy everything I *think* I need I checked at my library for the Monica Ferris books. They don't have them! I, of course, ordered them all G. Actually I borrowed some from Sumac too. I'm savoring them and still have two to go. But I think they're only published in paperback and I have been meaning to see if my library has the paperbacks on some other shelves. I think I checked the card catalogue (computer) but I may not have. They really should have them because they're so GOOD!! Jane in Vermont, USA where it is in the 50s F again!! Snow is melting and the sprouts of the early crocuses across the street are out from under the 4 foot (1 1/3m) snow bank!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Re: retrospective wrongs et al
On Mar 3, 2004, at 14:50, Maxine D wrote: I personally do not believe that any nations benefits from war, Oh, I wouldn't say so... :) Consider: the world *entered* WWII still broke from the Depression -- in fact, the poverty following the Depression was a great motivator for not only Germany but also Italy and Spain, to engage in a war on the fascist side. But it *emerged* -- winners and losers both -- into prosperity (though some countries more prosperous than others). A war gives a jump-start to industry, government-sponsored heavy industry in particular A serious blood-letting attendant on war, cuts down on unemployment... A war provides a glue to a nation involved in it -- vide the big jump up in ratings for Bush shortly after US invaded Iraq, when lots of people still thought we were fighting terrorists, not mirages, and when lots of people still thought it would be a quickie, with little damage to us (other than in the arena of international relations, but, do we *care* about those?). Nations at war adopt a different mentality -- they're willing to put up with deprivations and abrogation of rights which they'd consider unacceptable during peace-time ... WWII was even good, in some respects, for the lot of women, particularly in Europe; because there were so few men left, women had to work, thus gaining self-confidence and some say... - Tamara P Duvall Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd/ To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] :) Fwd: faith
OK, this is my last appearance on chat for the next week+; I'll be leaving for (Northern) California tomorrow morning, and won't be back on line till March 12. Even though I'll be (soon) unsubscribing from both lace and chat, I expect it'll take me at least a day to purge my inbox of spam (need to make sure that only spam got classified as such and that all spam is tossed out to where it belongs), and to catch up (via archives) with the two lists. So, I'd count it as kindness if all of my sources of jokes stay mum till the 13th... From: R.P. Two men crashed their private plane on a South Pacific Island. Both survived. One of the men brushed himself off and then proceeded to wander over the island to see what they had for survival. When he returned, he rushed up to the other man and screamed, This island is uninhabited, there is no food and no water. We are going to die! The other man leaned back against the fuselage of the wrecked plane, folded his arms and responded, No we're not. I make over $250,000 week. The first man grabbed his friend and shook him. Listen, didn't you hear what I said? We are going to die! The other man, unruffled, again responded. No, I make over $250,000 week. So what? We have no food and no water. I'm telling you we ARE doomed. We are going to die a slow death. Still unfazed, the first man looked the other in the eyes and said, Do not make me say this again. I make over $250,000 per week -- and I tithe. MY PASTOR WILL FIND US. - Tamara P Duvall Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd/ To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] st. catherine's lace flower
Subject: [lace-chat] st. catherine's lace flower I also did a search for a flower called St.Catherine's Lace and this is what I found: http://www.calflora.net/bloomingplants/stcatherineslace.html It looks very pretty !! It may look pretty, but it would likely be a very invasive growing plant. It is is the same family as one of the noxious weeds on our state's 'it's bad and get rid of it before you get fined' list. This is info from my Master gardener DH. But I might add that we live in a very temperate climate and it might be fine in other parts of the world. Lorri To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Aboriginal oral tradition
Patricia, If you reread Liz's message you will see that she was not responding to accusations that her own parents did not do enough but that *Brits* did not do enough. I quote: My main circle of aquantances are Orthodox Jews and regular as clock work they bring up the holocaust and how 'little' the UK did about it. This is worse when it is brought up by people my own age (under 40) who weren't alive then either. When they say the usual 'what were you (the Brits) doing about the holocaust' I always say the same thing; 'well I'm sorry my Dad didn't do anything about the holocaust, he was too busy fighting the Japanese in Burma to give it his full attention. Oh and my mum was only 12 and had just lost her father. What were your parents doing?' It usually gets an apology at that point. Apart from the demeaning statement that Orthodox Jews do this regular as clockwork (did they have miniature timers implanted at birth? Only Orthodox Jews? Does that mean Liberal Jews don't care about the Holocaust?), the patronizing language and the satisfaction over the apology she 'usually gets', Liz glosses over the fact that she is being addressed in the collective--you (the Brits)--and replying in the singular, my Dad. That's a jump of logic that I don't swallow. I found her reply shallow and egotistical. I was not at all addressing the issue of whether Britain did enough during the war, so family history (yours or Liz's) is irrelevant. Nor was I refer to contemporary German society. Please don't muddy the waters by attributing to me opinions that I never expressed. As for the notion that it behooves moderators not to be offensive, I have no idea where you got that idea. Moderators are allowed to express their own opinions as individuals. If I'd used a moderator sig, I would have been speaking in my capacity as moderator and that is a different matter. I was speaking in a purely private capacity and I have little tolerance for sloppy thinking. Avital - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [lace-chat] Aboriginal oral tradition Avital, it behoves you not as moderator to be offensive. I found your last message offensive. My father captained a minesweeper and the strain of that caused him to have nightmares for the rest of his life. My mother's family was bombed out of three homes. And I lost a cousin in a Japanese prisoner of war camp. And yes, the fighter in Burma and the sailor *are* representative of Britain at that time. These people were aware Naziism was evil but had no knowledge of the real depths of depravity which existed. But they did feel they had to fight the evil. My father was in a reserved occupation and didn't have to join the navy. And may I remind you that it was Britain along with the Commonwealth family who fought this evil alone as most of Eurpoe had been conquered and the Americans didn't join in until Pearl Harbor. I think I am right in saying this country is still repaying all the help given by America before then. So Liz is right in saying we have nothing to be ashamed of. Our politicians may have known more but the frontline troops and the civiliam population being bombed night after night after night did not. And who knows, in 60 years time the building of that wall in your country may be widely condemned as evil. At the moment I and many others on the outside can see both sides of the problem but in 60 years? it has been said before but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Also, many of the members of this list are very kind and friendly Germans. I'm sure most of us on the list do not hold them responsible for what their parents and grandparents may or may not have done in the thirties and forties. i certainly would not want to be held responsible for my grandparents' activities, especially as I never knew them. A saddened Patricia in Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] lori
very temperate climate and it might be fine in other parts of the world. lori please tell us what zone you are in or where you are so we can decide for ourselves thanks yours in lace Dearl Christiansburg, Virginia, USA My idea of housework is to sweep the room with a glance. Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cablenet-va.com/~dearlk/ http://photos.yahoo.com/ladearl To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Problems of the world
I've been listening to the chatter That's been on our list of late About the troubles of this world of ours And life's load of sorry fate. But a single thought has struck me As I read each heartfelt piece That we CAN express our feelings And discuss such things in peace It seems to me us lacers Can speak what's in each heart. We share in such exchanges and openly take part. So I feel so very lucky To be one of this kind And hope we always honour The right to speak our mind Noelene in Cooma I wrote this a couple of years ago during another session of major differences of opinion, where people who felt very strongly about issues were having their say. It seems to be appropriate at the moment as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~nlafferty/ To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] novel about the bubonic plague in England
Thanks, Liz, I'll see if I can get it. We don't have it at my library, so I'll have to put in a request. Helene, the froggy from Melbourne --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/3/2004 2:24:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Talking about bubonic plague...:-)), one of you might be able to help me! Here's another one - The Vizard Mask by Diana Norman (ISBN 0718100174) is set in the Plague and Great Fire of the 1660s and also the Monmouth revolt - very good period atmospherics Liz Regards Liz Beecher I'm A HREF=http://journals.aol.com/thelacebee/thelacebee;blogging/A now - see what it's all about Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Crewel world
Hello, Carol, Monica Ferris is the name of the author, and Crewel world was the first title. This is a list of the titles we have in my library, in alphabetical order, not in chronoligical order, unfortunately.. I don't think British libraries would have them automatically, they are published by an American paperback publisher, and usually have to be ordered in!! If you enquire on Amazon, you'll probably get the order, and what they are about. I rather liked them, myself, a bit like Mrs Marple or Miss Seeton's books, rather gentle crime, if I may say so!! Good luck, Helene, the froggy from Melbourne 1. Crewel world New York : Berkley Prime Crime, 1999. 2. Cutwork / Monica Ferris. New York : Berkley Prime Crime, 2004. 3. Framed in lace New York : Berkley Prime Crime, 1999. 4. Hanging by a thread New York : Berkley Prime Crime, 2003. 5. A murderous yarn New York : Berkley Prime Crime, 2002. 6. Unraveled sleeve New York : Berkley Prime Crime, 2001. Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] past events and responsability
I certainly would not want to be held responsible for my grandparents' activities, especially as I never knew them. A saddened Patricia in Wales I'm with you, Patricia! One can deeply regret what was done in the past, without having to be held responsible for what ancestors have done. I for one left the Catholic faith I was raised into because I could not tolerate to belong to a religion that behaved in such a disgusting way towards people in the past, meaning the Crusades, burning witches, torturing poor wretches to make them change their faith the the true one, etc. However, I don't hold the present Church responsible for those events, I just expect them to have learnt from it and be more tolerant now, and I'm not satisfied with their modern attitude. Tolerance and having learnt from the past doesn't seem to occur in many of the fanatically religious people one encounters everywhere, and I don't mean just Catholics!! I can read Little women and think OK, I don't like their ideas about this or that, but I can accept that it was current at the time. I would not accept that a modern writer could have the same prejudices. My really big gripe with this subject is that everyone complains about what was done in the past and says what are you going to do about it?, but most of those same people are quite intolerant about other things. One example I read about is in the biography of Roberta Sykes (Snake circle, in 3 volumes), a fantastic read about a modern Aboriginal rights fighter and the life she lead. I tell you I was weeping in the plane going to England while reading the end of her first book, when she tells about the way she was raped as a young woman, and treated by the local police and others. She tells in her third book of how she was herself rejected by the Aboriginal community where she lived, around Sydney, because she found, after years of devoting herself to the Aboriginal cause, that her father may have been a black American soldier rather than an Aborigine, as her mother(who was white) had let her believe all her life without actually telling her who he really was. Suddenly, they didn't want to have anything to do with her any more, as if all her efforts on their behalf was for nothing, and I don't think it's even certain that she has no Aboriginal blood. Well, that kind of thing really gets my goat up!! Coming down from my soapbox now! Yours in lace, (thank heavens it's a fairly non-prejudiced area!!), Helene, the croaking froggy from Melbourne Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Re: Politics and plague books....
The novel in question is by Connie Willis, and is called _Doomsday Book_. It's one of my favorites--very evocative. Another novel that deals with living through the plague (albeit in the 17th c) is called _Year of Wonders_, and it's by Geraldine Brooks. It's inspired by the true story of the town in Derbyshire (Eyam) that quarantined itself. Also well worth reading when one can tear oneself away from something as satisfying as lace-making or spinning g. About the politics...I'm a white-skinned American living in a part of our country formerly owned by people of another culture. Not only do I have slave-owners in my family background, I have great-greats who were rabidly anti-Catholic enough to be Orangemen. I do not find, in my heart of hearts, that I feel guilty about what happened in my family and country of origin before I was even born, although I do carry some sense of cultural shame about it. What I am *responsible* for is to ensure that I do as much as I can to see that atrocities and prejudices perpetuated in the past do not carry themselves forward. And yeah, it does mean increasing my level of awareness--for example, at least in my current culture, my skin color *does* make a difference that I often take for granted. The random fact that I was born female in America (as contrasted to, say, Afghanistan) *does* make a difference in how I can live my life. It behooves me, as an aware human being, to stay alert to false assumptions I grew up with about myself and about people of different ethnic and religious backgrounds, and to be willing to honestly confront those and discard them as irrelevant to truthful living. But then, I'd like to think that's something that we *all* need to deal with, no matter our gender or nationality or anything else. --sue, who's getting down off her soap box now so she can go to bed. Goodnight everyone, from a snowy March night in Missoula, MT Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:24:05 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Helene=20Gannac?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [lace-chat] novel about the bubonic plague in England Talking about bubonic plague...:-)), one of you might be able to help me! I read a really good sci-fi book several years ago, but can't find it anywhere, and I've forgotten the title and the author!! It was about students in Cambridge or Oxford Uni who go back in time, and one of them has gone to the Middle Ages and is late coming back. The teams who man the time-machines are all going down with a strange sickness (in fact, flu, which someone has brought back from the past)which is killing lots of people, and the main character decides to go back and find the other student. She gets caught in the part of England where the bubonic plague started, and she feels terrible, because she cannot do anything to save all the people. Because towns and villages are shutting down to prevent sick people from arriving, she is stuck and has to share the live of the people of the period, and she catches the sickness, but survives...I can't remember whether she finds the other student or not, and I would like to re-read it. Anyone heard of it? I thought it was called something like The seventh winter or The last winter... Thanks!! Helene, the froggy from Melbourne PS: another really good novel about the plague, but in Roman times, this one, is Household Gods by Judith Tarr. It is also very funny. It's the story of a modern times American woman who finds herself in Roman Germany, where her ancestors came from, and has to adapt to the life of a taverna (pub) owner. It's wonderful!! I thoroughly recommend it! To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
