Re: [lace-chat] Re: Katrina/perceptions/general rambling

2005-09-13 Thread susan
been a believer, I'd have begged God's pardon for using the term). We
> 
> cannot assume that, because the Oz "dumps" were mostly criminal, they
> 
> had been more "savvy" than the slave "dumps" deposited on the US 
> shores. 

the u.s.a. was also created by dumping out european or u.k. prisons. 
that is why the u.s. government probably never got correctlly to "land
of the free".  so many criminals found so many ways to make money off
of each other illegally.  but then again the criminals were the " non
catholics", so they may have never committed a crime at all.  a lot of
the criminals were just people who needed religeous freedom.

from susan in tennessee,u.s.a.

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[lace-chat] Re: Katrina/perceptions/general rambling

2005-09-13 Thread Tamara P Duvall

On Sep 13, 2005, at 4:46, Karen wrote:


No offence to any of the groups mentioned, but I think the history of a
population can have a great deal to do with it's coping in such a 
disaster.

Australia had a history of being settled by convicts,




At 21, I told my Mother I was in love with this guy in US, and was 
gonna chase him - come hell or high water - until I nailed him to the 
altar (or equivalent, seing I'm an atheist); she could be nice or nasty 
about it, but it would make no diff to me. Since I was the only child, 
she chose to be nice, and even managed to get my father somewhat 
reconciled to the idea.


There was certainly no objection to "my chosen" on the grounds of his 
education (intellectual compatibility) - he was a full professor at a 
University (however small and unknown in Poland), while I was still 
working my way up towards an MA (and never went beyond that). There was 
- a very serious - objection because of the age difference; he's 25 yrs 
older than I am, but my Mother was able to "stomach" that too (our 
rabbi had a child when he was 72, and not everyone thought it wasn't 
really his).


What *really* stuck in her craw was his antecedents... On learning he 
was a Virginian of several generations' standing, she got really upset 
about the possible criminal genes he might pass onto my children; poor 
thing, she had been reading too much of Daniel Defoe (Fanny Hill), 
obviously :)


I land here, I am introduced to his family... And I'm as un-acceptable 
to them as they had been to my Mother :)  I'm not a Southerner, I'm not 
even American (I'm half-Polack and half-kike, altogether proletarian 
and commie)... His first wife had been condemned on a far lesser charge 
(half-English, half-Irish, all NYCity).


Much to everyone's surprise, I was able to make "connections" with my 
new family in US that my predecessor - far less removed culturally - 
had not been able to...


Preconceptions are good "mental shortcuts" to have, but they should 
*never* be the only yardstick :)


a large proportion of the black American population in the southern 
states are

descended from slaves.


Until fairly recently, *all* blacks in US were descendants of slaves. 
Unfortunae but true, and the sooner we stop tap-dancing around the 
subject, the sooner we might be able to vomit the past bile and start 
again - clean.



Survival for slaves depended on following instructions,


250 yr ago, maybe. They spoke all sorts of languages (being brought 
from the vastly different areas of Africa) - all *but* English... But, 
even before "Lincoln's revolution" blacks were "layered"; some blacks 
were not only free, but owned property, including slaves (also black). 
*Not* everyone black was a slave or even poor. After Lincoln, some of 
them had been put in charge of whites (carpet baggers) which, in the 
long run, resulted in the back-lash and the Jim Crow laws (Ku-Klux-Klan 
being the prime pustule  on the face of those).


Also...  Many of those who arrived in Botany Bay arrrived there as much 
against their will as the black slaves had in US; the *only* difference 
was lack of language on the part of the African "immigrants" (had I 
been a believer, I'd have begged God's pardon for using the term). We 
cannot assume that, because the Oz "dumps" were mostly criminal, they 
had been more "savvy" than the slave "dumps" deposited on the US 
shores. Just because the Africans were unable to *communicate in 
English*, doesn't mean they were *dumb*...


To say that blacks in US have, for over 200 yrs, stayed in the same - 
sheep led to slaughter - mind-set is offensive to at least 2/3 of the 
US population; blacks, and those whites  (like myself) who hate the 
idea of dividing people on the basis of skin-colour, hair-curl, 
nose-shape, etc, rather than brain-power (that's why I'm *passionately 
for* equal opportunity in education)...


Blacks in US still do not have as many *chances* offered re: education, 
employment, healthcare as whites do (and, if anyone in an European 
country tells me they'd made a "black paradise", I'll be willing to 
debate my contention that they *lie*) ... But, as for taking 
instructions from the "massah" and being clueless without... That's 
been pure BS for a long time, praise be the Selma marchers...


The disenfranchised in New Orleans (and other cities along the Gulf 
Coast) had been mostly black, but there was a healthy admixture of - 
equally poor - whites. According to the recent - post Katrina - polls, 
the majority of blacks think that the government's response would have 
been faster if the people at risk had been white. Whites, polled on the 
same question, do not think so (77%).


Nobody asked about what people thought would have happened if the "left 
behind" folk had been poor, of *either* black or white  persuasion (as 
they had been)... Personally, I think the contempt/lack of empathy of 
the current administration is not colour-determined; I think it runs 
along the hav