[lace-chat] Re: Lace and fairy tale

2004-12-12 Thread Tamara P. Duvall
On Dec 12, 2004, at 18:57, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Julie) wrote:
Remember how this fairy tale goes: The little girl's mother died and 
the
father remarried.  The stepmother did not like her but concealed her 
dislike.
One day the stepmother gave the girl a basket of tasty food and told 
her to
take it to the stepmother's sister, who lived in a cottage at the end 
of the path
in the forest.
I love fairy tales, and have never heard this one, so enjoyed it a lot 
(though would have liked to know how the girl used the objects in her 
flight from the witch) The comb? A forest grew? The others, I can't 
even guess...

 By the way, I note that this tale fits into the old theory (completely
unsupported as far as I know) that in the old days women did 
needlework (or
spinning, or weaving) in groups--for company-- and told each other 
fairy tales to
pass the time.
Probably depended on who and when. In needlework sweatshops, women 
worked together not for company, but so they could all be supervised as 
to the quality of their work. And they weren't permited to tell 
stories; they weren't permited to talk at all, as that would have 
slowed them down, and they were being paid for a day's work, and 
expected to produce thus and such amount of whatever stuff.

OTOH, independent workers, who got paid by piece or yard, or did 
needlework more or less like we do - for themselves (household use 
etc)... Quite possible. Ladies-in-waiting, at court, most certainly 
didn't sit mute while busying themselves with their embroideries, 
either (not that their companionship was by choice ).

Since they were doing all that needlework it partiuclarly amused
them to put needlework in their stories.  Hence, Rumperlstiltskin, and 
the
similar story with the three weird sisters who claim to be deformed by 
spinning
and weaving and suchlike, and Sleeping Beauty who falls into enchented 
sleep
when she pricks her finger on a needle, and so forth.
So, let's hear some of the "so forth" :) Textiles in fairy tales sounds 
like a perfect subject  for short and cold days (not in upside-down Oz, 
of course )...

The Sleeping Beauty, pricked herself with a spindle, at least in the 
version I heard; it was Snow White's mom, who pricked herself with a 
needle, the blood dropped onto the snow outsdide the window (tells you 
not even royalty could afford glassed windows, in those days ), etc.

There's a Russian fairy tale, about the clever daughter of a peasant, 
whom the king is thinking of marrying, so he gives her various tasks to 
perform. In one of the tasks, he gives her a bunch of linen, and orders 
her to spin and weave it and make the wedding shirt for him by the next 
day. The next morning, she hands him a fistful of flax seeds and says 
the shirt is almost ready, but for one sleeve - there wasn't enough 
linen there. Could he please sow the seed, reap the linen, and have it 
delivered to her by evening...

And, on the subject of a missing sleeve... Wasn't there a story - in 
the Brothers Grimm collection - about a girl who had to make 12 shirts 
for her brothers who'd been turned into ravens?

---
Tamara P Duvall http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd
Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland)
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Re: [lace-chat] Re: Lace and fairy tale

2004-12-17 Thread Weronika Patena
On Sun, Dec 12, 2004 at 09:06:52PM -0500, Tamara P. Duvall wrote:
> And, on the subject of a missing sleeve... Wasn't there a story - in 
> the Brothers Grimm collection - about a girl who had to make 12 shirts 
> for her brothers who'd been turned into ravens?

I remember one with swans...  And the girl had to make the shirts out of nettles
at night at a graveyard.  And there were additional gruesome effects, I think,
but I don't remember.  The fact that those used to be stories for children tells
you something about how life must have been then...

Weronika

-- 
Weronika Patena
Caltech, Pasadena, CA, USA
http://vole.stanford.edu/weronika

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Re: [lace-chat] Re: Lace and fairy tale

2004-12-18 Thread Joy Beeson
At 06:14 PM 12/17/04 -0800, Weronika Patena wrote:

>I remember one with swans...  And the girl had to make the shirts out of
nettles
>at night at a graveyard.  And there were additional gruesome effects, I think,
>but I don't remember.  The fact that those used to be stories for children
tells
>you something about how life must have been then...

I don't remember the night or the graveyard bit from the version I read, but
I think it did say that spinning the nettles made the girl's fingers bleed.  

Later on, I learned that nettles don't have thorns like cactus, they sting.  

And long after that, I learned that nettles used to be retted like flax to
make a much finer fiber, that was still used for very special projects long
after flax came in.  

Today I have two yards of nettle cloth hanging in my closet -- not the
European nettle of the tale, but a giant nettle called ramie, which comes
from some tropical island.  I also have a ramie attache case, which looks
rather like cordura.  

-- 
Joy Beeson
http://home.earthlink.net/~joybeeson/
http://home.earthlink.net/~dbeeson594/ROUGHSEW/ROUGH.HTM 
http://home.earthlink.net/~beeson_n3f/ 
west of Fort Wayne, Indiana, U.S.A.
where it's trying to snow.

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