The diaries was Re: LI Computers/Admissions
Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Jackie :) The Civil trial allowed in the diaries, the criminal trial allowed in letters from both Oj and Nicole. Jackie Fellows wrote: Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Kathy Can't remember--was that at both trials? I know there was a lot of debate about it. Oh getting old and forgetful can be a b### sometimes. jackief -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Computers/Admissions/Kathy
Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Linda :) They have been airing the MO trial here, yet when that verdict was announced it was all over the news, so it's rather boring watching that trial. The reports I do a mixture :) As you have pointed out :) I try to keep my comments to myself unless I find things in the report that should be there, when doing the reports I don't like to show the way I feel and prefer them to be unbiased but there are times one has to say something that most don't know happened. Example in the Budzyn trial the one man testified he saw Budzyn vomiting when he saw malice's body, no one else reported that, another thing is Friday the jury passed a note to the Judge asking to rehear the complete testimony of Budzyn, not just portions of it which is normal. That tells me they are being fair in evaluating the evidence. If they should convict him again, I may not agree with their decision but at least I see they are taking this seriously and that is all we can ask for any jury to consider all the evidence and forget public opinion. I did see that the girl was convicted for murder, as she should have been IMHO from what I read of the case, if you want I can post the case summary for the group, some on here do not have web access so they're a bit in the dark about the case and what is being discussed. Just let me know :) Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff wrote: :) Hi Kathy - for some reason hereabouts, the case is airing now, but I can't watch all of it - will probably miss the last parts. If you ever do hear of a verdict, or commentary on the computer file aspects, please post on it; I have been reading your posts this week on other cases and it is very valuable to have them. I have never known whether you are able to use digests or write them all, but I find them good reading (and now and then there is a Kathy note in the middle!). Thx for responding; I am not sure how to ever know if the computer files where he was writing about doing a murder will ever be discussed again, but it was very interesting. :) LDMF. -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Computers/Admissions/Kathy
"Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: :) Hi Kathy - please keep the summaries coming as time permits, I think it must be quite a job, but they're great to read especially for those of us who aren't really keeping up on all fronts. If you do have a summary of 'California v. Bray and Ayers' and its not too much trouble it would be interesting; I doubt tho that they talked about the computer/evidence problem, but who knows... :) LDMF --Kathy E wrote:--- Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Linda :) They have been airing the MO trial here, yet when that verdict was announced it was all over the news, so it's rather boring watching that trial. The reports I do a mixture :) As you have pointed out :) I try to keep my comments to myself unless I find things in the report that should be there, when doing the reports I don't like to show the way I feel and prefer them to be unbiased but there are times one has to say something that most don't know happened. Example in the Budzyn trial the one man testified he saw Budzyn vomiting when he saw malice's body, no one else reported that, another thing is Friday the jury passed a note to the Judge asking to rehear the complete testimony of Budzyn, not just portions of it which is normal. That tells me they are being fair in evaluating the evidence. If they should convict him again, I may not agree with their decision but at least I see they are taking this seriously and that is all we can ask for any jury to consider all the evidence and forget public opinion. I did see that the girl was convicted for murder, as she should have been IMHO from what I read of the case, if you want I can post the case summary for the group, some on here do not have web access so they're a bit in the dark about the case and what is being discussed. Just let me know :) Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff wrote: :) Hi Kathy - for some reason hereabouts, the case is airing now, but I can't watch all of it - will probably miss the last parts. If you ever do hear of a verdict, or commentary on the computer file aspects, please post on it; I have been reading your posts this week on other cases and it is very valuable to have them. I have never known whether you are able to use digests or write them all, but I find them good reading (and now and then there is a Kathy note in the middle!). Thx for responding; I am not sure how to ever know if the computer files where he was writing about doing a murder will ever be discussed again, but it was very interesting. :) LDMF. -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Computers/Admissions/Kathy
"Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: :) Hi Kathy - please keep the summaries coming as time permits, I think it must be quite a job, but they're great to read especially for those of us who aren't really keeping up on all fronts. If you do have a summary of 'California v. Bray and Ayers' and its not too much trouble, it would be interesting; I doubt tho that they talked about the computer/evidence problem, but who knows... :) LDMF --Kathy E wrote:--- Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Linda :) They have been airing the MO trial here, yet when that verdict was announced it was all over the news, so it's rather boring watching that trial... Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Computers/Admissions/Kathy
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Dr. L.: I'm still on the trail of Bray and Ayers. LOL I don't know if I am going to be able to find what you want, but it certainly won't be for a lack of trying. Sue :) Hi Kathy - please keep the summaries coming as time permits, I think it must be quite a job, but they're great to read especially for those of us who aren't really keeping up on all fronts. If you do have a summary of 'California v. Bray and Ayers' and its not too much trouble it would be interesting; I doubt tho that they talked about the computer/evidence problem, but who knows... :) LDMF Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Computers/Admissions/Kathy
"Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Sue - you are very nice to do this, but I am not much after this case except in regard to computer files as evidence. The other night they broadcast a snippet: the daughter was indeed found to be guilty. It's curious why I did not see the verdict on Courttv, but other than that I would vote to save your energies for future hot topics, (unless of course something turns up on the evidence matter) -- come to think of it, maybe we can find something on computers and evidence, out there on the sprawling web. have a good 'un! :) LDMF. --Sue Hartigan wrote: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Dr. L.: I'm still on the trail of Bray and Ayers. LOL I don't know if I am going to be able to find what you want, but it certainly won't be for a lack of trying. Sue :) Hi Kathy - please keep the summaries coming as time permits, I think it must be quite a job, but they're great to read especially for those of us who aren't really keeping up on all fronts. If you do have a summary of 'California v. Bray and Ayers' and its not too much trouble it would be interesting; I doubt tho that they talked about the computer/evidence problem, but who knows... :) LDMF Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Computers/Admissions/Kathy
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Dr. L.: I looked all over for it and all I could find were stories about how the girl got permission to attend the funeral of her mother and then at the last minute it was denied. Other than that I couldn't find anything concerning the trial. Sue :) Hi Kathy - for some reason hereabouts, the case is airing now, but I can't watch all of it - will probably miss the last parts. If you ever do hear of a verdict, or commentary on the computer file aspects, please post on it; I have been reading your posts this week on other cases and it is very valuable to have them. I have never known whether you are able to use digests or write them all, but I find them good reading (and now and then there is a Kathy note in the middle!). Thx for responding; I am not sure how to ever know if the computer files where he was writing about doing a murder will ever be discussed again, but it was very interesting. :) LDMF. ---Kathy E -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Computers/Admissions/Sue
"Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Sue - re. California v. Bray and Ayers, I don't have the date, but it is on right now; I will suhmit a question to courttv though if I can from their site; will check it out. Best wishes, :) LDMF. --Sue Hartigan wrote:--- Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Dr. L.: Do you have the date on this? If you go to http://www.ca.gov/s/govt/judicial.html you can get any opinion from the Ca courts. I am going through a list now to see if I can find the names you put on here. Sue Hello Doctor, If it was covered by Court TV then it is likely that they have the case on it's web site archives. You can check there to see if they have transcripts and the results of evidentiary rulings. Many times they will have a link to this information and not limit their data to the verdict only. If it's not on there you may simply try sending an e-mail to the Court TV staff citing the case and asking them what the judge ruled with respect to that evidence. Another source would be the local newspapers for that city, which are probably on the net. But you'd have to search via key word in order to find it. Hope this helps. Bill On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:28:06 -0800 "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bill - your post is intriguing. Re California v. Bray and Ayers, Yes, Courttv. Is it really possible to find out how particular sub-rulings come out, on the Internet? This was such an interesting interplay on the issue of whether computer logs to the 'self' vary from diaries; I don't think I'll hear how the judge rules, as they have moved on to other forensic issues as to what was discovered on the premises including but not limited to disks that were lying around; please post if there is a way to follow up, as I only thought one could look up final verdicts on their website. :) LDMF. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Computers/Admissions
Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Kathy Can't remember--was that at both trials? I know there was a lot of debate about it. Oh getting old and forgetful can be a b### sometimes. jackief Kathy E wrote: Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Jackie :) The diaries were allowed to be entered, not for the truth of the matter but for the jury to consider Nicole's state of mind at the time, which wasn't good for OJ's side. Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff wrote: "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jackie - yes. Do you recall, I do not, what ever happened with Nicole Simpson's diary? Some of these issues were involved, with, additionally, -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Computers/Admissions
Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill Darn it--no answer (teehee). I just think that in the attempt at reform in the cj system, we are going to end up with some real thorny problems. Seems to me that they just are not doing a "functional analysis" of these proposed policy changes. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Jackie, Yeah, and that becomes a separate issue. Most of the laws regarding the admissability of evidence are flexible enough so that it depends on the judge's ruling. And it makes sense that a highly skilled attorney will be able to make a more compelling argument in court as opposed to a less skilled attorney. So the defendant who has the most money has the best chance on winning these kind of issues. But I don't think laws can be written to be so rigid that the judge does not have the opportunity to consider the specifics of a case and rule accordingly. In summary, I don't have an answer to how to solve the problem. :) Bill On Thu, 12 Mar 1998 03:22:57 -0600 Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill I am getting a little apprehensive about some of the recent rulings of courts. It seems with our reactive type laws and policies, we forget the middle ground and swing from one side of the pendulum to the other. And, of course, there are some that will have the money again to fight any of these rulings so it just seems to increase the inequality in how justice is distributed. jackief _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Computers/Admissions
"Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill - "staleness" is basically what the California judge said in the portion of trial that I saw. She said, conforming to your post, that even if it qualified for admissibility under the 'state of mind' exception to hearsay, it was too long before the murder. I guess great minds work in similar ways; thanks for the post. :) LDMF. --William J. Foristal wrote:--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Linda, I'm sure Kathy can answer this for sure, but my recollection is that the prosecution argued that it was admissable to show the state of mind of Nicole rather than a statement of proof. But I think Ito ruled against the prosecution on this because the entries were written so long before the murders. But I could be wrong on this. Bill On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:07:02 -0800 "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jackie - yes. Do you recall, I do not, what ever happened with Nicole Simpson's diary? Some of these issues were involved, with, additionally, the fact that she could not give permission. Does anyone recall those discussions - Bill, I have a feeling you might know if they did admit those diary entries, perhaps as present sense impression exceptions to hearsay, or another exception? I eagerly await posts on this. :) LDMF. --Jackie Fellows wrote: Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill and Dr. L Here I go again--off the wall questions about things. It just occurred to me that if evidence such as diaries, computer files, etc. are admissible as evidence than is that going to affect one of the counseling tools that are often used to assist clients in coming to terms with their anger, past abuse issues, etc. Journaling, writing poetry or stories is a very effective and popular therapy tool. However, if courts are going to allow this type of material to enter as evidence--then what?? Just a thought. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hello Doctor, I know exactly what you mean. It's like reading a book and not wanting to look ahead to how the plot is resolved. You could always find the answer on the net somewhere, I'm sure, but it's probably more fun waiting to see how they covered it. I'm assuming this is on Court TV? Bill On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:51:57 -0800 "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill - turns out that it is a January 1997 trial. Don't you love it when they raise a question, and if you have the time you can (that is, one can, since you yourself are probably not hooked) wait around three days to hear the matter come up again. I may never know if in California v. Bray and Ayers or Akers the computer files, like diaries, did come in or not (as 'state of mind' exception to hearsay, for example). The consolation is that whatever way the judge rules (here regarding possible plans to commit murder), it is interesting to hear the sides argued. Thx for the post! :-) LDMF. -William J. Foristal wrote:-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hello Doctor, I would think it would be identical to a tape recorded statement. Even if someone makes the tape and never plays if for anyone I would think it could be offered as evidence if it met the other criteria. Let us know what the judge rules. Bill On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:31:08 -0800 "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is anyone watching the Court-tiv 'Murdered Mom' (Ayers trial) where they are arguing to a judge that what is input to a computer is not a statement unless and until published to someone? The judge is saying that a statement is justan oral or written expression sop computer files are admissible. Lawyer is arguing that its just a thought process, when someone types into a computer, unless and until it is published. Overall context is whether its a statement and under the evidence code can be admitted. Judge hasn't ruled yet (defense is saying its hearsay, if it is a statement at all). :) LDMF PS: commentator says its like a diary, not intended to be read but can be used against someone. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet
Re: LI Computers/Admissions
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Jackie. Could it be because the people who HAVE the money also have the power? And that they fail to see how society is hurt by the inequities in the system because they don't think it will ever affect them? Bill On Fri, 13 Mar 1998 05:09:39 -0600 Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill Darn it--no answer (teehee). I just think that in the attempt at reform in the cj system, we are going to end up with some real thorny problems. Seems to me that they just are not doing a "functional analysis" of these proposed policy changes. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Jackie, Yeah, and that becomes a separate issue. Most of the laws regarding the admissability of evidence are flexible enough so that it depends on the judge's ruling. And it makes sense that a highly skilled attorney will be able to make a more compelling argument in court as opposed to a less skilled attorney. So the defendant who has the most money has the best chance on winning these kind of issues. But I don't think laws can be written to be so rigid that the judge does not have the opportunity to consider the specifics of a case and rule accordingly. In summary, I don't have an answer to how to solve the problem. :) Bill On Thu, 12 Mar 1998 03:22:57 -0600 Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill I am getting a little apprehensive about some of the recent rulings of courts. It seems with our reactive type laws and policies, we forget the middle ground and swing from one side of the pendulum to the other. And, of course, there are some that will have the money again to fight any of these rulings so it just seems to increase the inequality in how justice is distributed. jackief _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Computers/Admissions
Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill I am getting a little apprehensive about some of the recent rulings of courts. It seems with our reactive type laws and policies, we forget the middle ground and swing from one side of the pendulum to the other. And, of course, there are some that will have the money again to fight any of these rulings so it just seems to increase the inequality in how justice is distributed. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Jackie, Good points and I don't know the answer. :) I think that there are very strict rules about when this type of evidence can be accepted by the judge. But there has to be some situations where it should be accepted, IMO. For example, what if this kind of evidence is the only evidence showing that someone is an unfit parent and should not have custody of their children. Should it be ignored? I don't think so. But it IS a touchy issue and the big problem, IMO, is when prosecutors and/or judges might abuse the rules and accept these items of evidence when it is more prejudicial than probative. Bill On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 04:28:10 -0600 Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill and Dr. L Here I go again--off the wall questions about things. It just occurred to me that if evidence such as diaries, computer files, etc. are admissible as evidence than is that going to affect one of the counseling tools that are often used to assist clients in coming to terms with their anger, past abuse issues, etc. Journaling, writing poetry or stories is a very effective and popular therapy tool. However, if courts are going to allow this type of material to enter as evidence--then what?? Just a thought. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hello Doctor, I know exactly what you mean. It's like reading a book and not wanting to look ahead to how the plot is resolved. You could always find the answer on the net somewhere, I'm sure, but it's probably more fun waiting to see how they covered it. I'm assuming this is on Court TV? Bill On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:51:57 -0800 "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill - turns out that it is a January 1997 trial. Don't you love it when they raise a question, and if you have the time you can (that is, one can, since you yourself are probably not hooked) wait around three days to hear the matter come up again. I may never know if in California v. Bray and Ayers or Akers the computer files, like diaries, did come in or not (as 'state of mind' exception to hearsay, for example). The consolation is that whatever way the judge rules (here regarding possible plans to commit murder), it is interesting to hear the sides argued. Thx for the post! :-) LDMF. -William J. Foristal wrote:-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hello Doctor, I would think it would be identical to a tape recorded statement. Even if someone makes the tape and never plays if for anyone I would think it could be offered as evidence if it met the other criteria. Let us know what the judge rules. Bill On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:31:08 -0800 "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is anyone watching the Court-tiv 'Murdered Mom' (Ayers trial) where they are arguing to a judge that what is input to a computer is not a statement unless and until published to someone? The judge is saying that a statement is justan oral or written expression sop computer files are admissible. Lawyer is arguing that its just a thought process, when someone types into a computer, unless and until it is published. Overall context is whether its a statement and under the evidence code can be admitted. Judge hasn't ruled yet (defense is saying its hearsay, if it is a statement at all). :) LDMF PS: commentator says its like a diary, not intended to be read but can be used against someone. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Computers/Admissions
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Jackie, Yeah, and that becomes a separate issue. Most of the laws regarding the admissability of evidence are flexible enough so that it depends on the judge's ruling. And it makes sense that a highly skilled attorney will be able to make a more compelling argument in court as opposed to a less skilled attorney. So the defendant who has the most money has the best chance on winning these kind of issues. But I don't think laws can be written to be so rigid that the judge does not have the opportunity to consider the specifics of a case and rule accordingly. In summary, I don't have an answer to how to solve the problem. :) Bill On Thu, 12 Mar 1998 03:22:57 -0600 Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill I am getting a little apprehensive about some of the recent rulings of courts. It seems with our reactive type laws and policies, we forget the middle ground and swing from one side of the pendulum to the other. And, of course, there are some that will have the money again to fight any of these rulings so it just seems to increase the inequality in how justice is distributed. jackief _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Computers/Admissions/Sue
"Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Sue - I found a trial tracking of the case of California v. Bray and Ayers on the Courttv site, but I did not see the verdict (maybe it is right in front of me!) - in any case the site says 1996, but the program announcer says "January" from which I derive 1998 for the trial. Do you have a way to check this out, betcha do! :) LDMF http://www.courttv.com/verdicts/bray.html#pagetop Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Computers/Admissions/Dr L
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Teen suspect barred from slain mom's rites Hi Dr. L.: So far this is all that I can find on the trial. These two stories were in the SD Union Archives. I'm still out there looking. :) I couldn't find anything in the LA Times. Sue 25-Jan-1996 Thursday LOS ANGELES -- A court order allowing a jailed teen-ager to attend her slain mother's funeral yesterday was rescinded by a judge hours before the service. Amber Bray, 18, was charged with helping her boyfriend, Jeffrey Glenn Ayers, 22, kill Dixie Lee Hollier, 42, on Jan. 16 in Hollier's Burbank home. Prosecutors say the defendants plotted for months to kill the woman. Superior Court Judge James Bascue ruled Tuesday that the teen-ager could attend the mother's funeral at a Burbank church but not the burial at Forest Lawn Memorial Park, Hollywood Hills. But the judge changed his mind yesterday after the Sheriff's Department informed him that a deputy who gave permission for the trip didn't have the authority to do so, said a spokesman for the District Attorney's Office. - Couple jailed in slaying of Burbank woman 18-Jan-1996 Thursday BURBANK -- A woman allowed her boyfriend into her house and stood by as he shot, beat and stabbed her mother to death, police said yesterday. Jeffrey Glenn Ayers, 21, was still attacking Dixie Hollier, 42, when police arrived at the home early Tuesday, police said. Ayers surrendered and Hollier, a manager in the international division at Warner Bros. Records in Burbank, was pronounced dead at the scene. Ayers and the victim's daughter, Amber Merrie Bray, 18, were arrested and held without bail. Investigators said documents recovered from Ayers and Bray indicated that the two believed that some money would become available if the mother was dead. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Computers/Admissions
"Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill - turns out that it is a January 1997 trial. Don't you love it when they raise a question, and if you have the time you can (that is, one can, since you yourself are probably not hooked) wait around three days to hear the matter come up again. I may never know if in California v. Bray and Ayers or Akers the computer files, like diaries, did come in or not (as 'state of mind' exception to hearsay, for example). The consolation is that whatever way the judge rules (here regarding possible plans to commit murder), it is interesting to hear the sides argued. Thx for the post! :-) LDMF. -William J. Foristal wrote:-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hello Doctor, I would think it would be identical to a tape recorded statement. Even if someone makes the tape and never plays if for anyone I would think it could be offered as evidence if it met the other criteria. Let us know what the judge rules. Bill On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:31:08 -0800 "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is anyone watching the Court-tiv 'Murdered Mom' (Ayers trial) where they are arguing to a judge that what is input to a computer is not a statement unless and until published to someone? The judge is saying that a statement is justan oral or written expression sop computer files are admissible. Lawyer is arguing that its just a thought process, when someone types into a computer, unless and until it is published. Overall context is whether its a statement and under the evidence code can be admitted. Judge hasn't ruled yet (defense is saying its hearsay, if it is a statement at all). :) LDMF PS: commentator says its like a diary, not intended to be read but can be used against someone. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Computers/Admissions/Bill-
"Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bill - your post is intriguing. Re California v. Bray and Ayers, Yes, Courttv. Is it really possible to find out how particular sub-rulings come out, on the Internet? This was such an interesting interplay on the issue of whether computer logs to the 'self' vary from diaries; I don't think I'll hear how the judge rules, as they have moved on to other forensic issues as to what was discovered on the premises including but not limited to disks that were lying around; please post if there is a way to follow up, as I only thought one could look up final verdicts on their website. :) LDMF. ---William J. Foristal wrote:- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hello Doctor, I know exactly what you mean. It's like reading a book and not wanting to look ahead to how the plot is resolved. You could always find the answer on the net somewhere, I'm sure, but it's probably more fun waiting to see how they covered it. I'm assuming this is on Court TV? Bill On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:51:57 -0800 "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill - turns out that it is a January 1997 trial. Don't you love it when they raise a question, and if you have the time you can (that is, one can, since you yourself are probably not hooked) wait around three days to hear the matter come up again. I may never know if in California v. Bray and Ayers or Akers the computer files, like diaries, did come in or not (as 'state of mind' exception to hearsay, for example). The consolation is that whatever way the judge rules (here regarding possible plans to commit murder), it is interesting to hear the sides argued. Thx for the post! :-) LDMF. -William J. Foristal wrote:-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hello Doctor, I would think it would be identical to a tape recorded statement. Even if someone makes the tape and never plays if for anyone I would think it could be offered as evidence if it met the other criteria. Let us know what the judge rules. Bill On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:31:08 -0800 "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is anyone watching the Court-tiv 'Murdered Mom' (Ayers trial) where they are arguing to a judge that what is input to a computer is not a statement unless and until published to someone? The judge is saying that a statement is justan oral or written expression sop computer files are admissible. Lawyer is arguing that its just a thought process, when someone types into a computer, unless and until it is published. Overall context is whether its a statement and under the evidence code can be admitted. Judge hasn't ruled yet (defense is saying its hearsay, if it is a statement at all). :) LDMF PS: commentator says its like a diary, not intended to be read but can be used against someone. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Computers/Admissions
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Jackie, Good points and I don't know the answer. :) I think that there are very strict rules about when this type of evidence can be accepted by the judge. But there has to be some situations where it should be accepted, IMO. For example, what if this kind of evidence is the only evidence showing that someone is an unfit parent and should not have custody of their children. Should it be ignored? I don't think so. But it IS a touchy issue and the big problem, IMO, is when prosecutors and/or judges might abuse the rules and accept these items of evidence when it is more prejudicial than probative. Bill On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 04:28:10 -0600 Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill and Dr. L Here I go again--off the wall questions about things. It just occurred to me that if evidence such as diaries, computer files, etc. are admissible as evidence than is that going to affect one of the counseling tools that are often used to assist clients in coming to terms with their anger, past abuse issues, etc. Journaling, writing poetry or stories is a very effective and popular therapy tool. However, if courts are going to allow this type of material to enter as evidence--then what?? Just a thought. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hello Doctor, I know exactly what you mean. It's like reading a book and not wanting to look ahead to how the plot is resolved. You could always find the answer on the net somewhere, I'm sure, but it's probably more fun waiting to see how they covered it. I'm assuming this is on Court TV? Bill On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:51:57 -0800 "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill - turns out that it is a January 1997 trial. Don't you love it when they raise a question, and if you have the time you can (that is, one can, since you yourself are probably not hooked) wait around three days to hear the matter come up again. I may never know if in California v. Bray and Ayers or Akers the computer files, like diaries, did come in or not (as 'state of mind' exception to hearsay, for example). The consolation is that whatever way the judge rules (here regarding possible plans to commit murder), it is interesting to hear the sides argued. Thx for the post! :-) LDMF. -William J. Foristal wrote:-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hello Doctor, I would think it would be identical to a tape recorded statement. Even if someone makes the tape and never plays if for anyone I would think it could be offered as evidence if it met the other criteria. Let us know what the judge rules. Bill On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:31:08 -0800 "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Dr.L.D.Misek-Falkoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is anyone watching the Court-tiv 'Murdered Mom' (Ayers trial) where they are arguing to a judge that what is input to a computer is not a statement unless and until published to someone? The judge is saying that a statement is justan oral or written expression sop computer files are admissible. Lawyer is arguing that its just a thought process, when someone types into a computer, unless and until it is published. Overall context is whether its a statement and under the evidence code can be admitted. Judge hasn't ruled yet (defense is saying its hearsay, if it is a statement at all). :) LDMF PS: commentator says its like a diary, not intended to be read but can be used against someone. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the
