Re: [Lazarus] Changes to fpWeb...

2017-01-16 Thread Lars via Lazarus 
On Mon, January 16, 2017 1:59 pm, Leonardo M. Ramé via Lazarus wrote:
>> Indeed, does he mean javascript pop up messages, but initiated by the
>> server? when is the message displayed and why would it be displayed?  an
>>  ajax on the current web page loaded, but initiated by the server?
>
> I think he is talking about WebSockets. The only framework I'm aware of
> implementing it is m0rm0t.

What is the exact name of it... couldn't find it:

https://www.google.com/search?q=m0rm0t+web+sockets

maybe a spelling mistake or slightly different name?
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Re: [Lazarus] Changes to fpWeb...

2017-01-16 Thread Leonardo M. Ramé via Lazarus 


El 16/01/17 a las 17:12, Lars via Lazarus escribió:

On Mon, January 16, 2017 12:19 pm, Daniel Gaspary via Lazarus wrote:

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Michael Schnell via Lazarus
 wrote:


Does fpweb / weblaz already support status messages from the server to
the client (or will it some day) to allow for "Rich Web Applications") ?


I don't work very often with web, but I'm curious...


Can you give examples of these messages? And who (nginx, apache..?)
and how they are implemented?

Thanks.


Indeed, does he mean javascript pop up messages, but initiated by the
server? when is the message displayed and why would it be displayed?  an
ajax on the current web page loaded, but initiated by the server?
I think he is talking about WebSockets. The only framework I'm aware of 
implementing it is m0rm0t.


Regards,
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Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College

2017-01-16 Thread Lars via Lazarus 
On Mon, January 16, 2017 3:19 am, Michael Schnell via Lazarus wrote:
> On 15.01.2017 15:30, Martin Vahi via Lazarus wrote:
>
>> have came to a conclusion that GUI-s are inherently something that
>> require "dynamic programming" or the code gets really bloated.
>>
>>
> The nice thing about Lazarus "RAD" paradigm is that this is completely
> hidden (in the library) from application programmer. So (s)he only needs to
> write the code that is obviously useful for the task at hand.

Except when you find a bug in the lcl, and have to dig in to it..

In theory one could never look into the lcl or underlying api's

in practice, sometimes there is an issue to be resolved... like when I
fired up the macOS laptop and found that moving the mouse crashed the app,
and Dmitry helped me figure out why ;-)  Had too look into the macOS
related lcl code
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Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College

2017-01-16 Thread Lars via Lazarus 

> On Sunday 15 January 2017 15:30:44 Martin Vahi via Lazarus wrote:
>
>>
>> I haven't used Lazarus yet, I need to learn it,
>> but during the development of my own JavaScript GUI library I have came
>> to a conclusion that GUI-s are inherently something that require "dynamic
>> programming" or the code gets really bloated.
>>

GUI's require wrappers.

Delphi 5 as an example, is a wrapper around the win32api

All successful programming projects are just good wrappers. (everything is
a wrapper)

If you program GUI's yourself from scratch, you waste thousands (if not
millions) of lines of code instead of having a tool that already wrapped
it and abstracted it for you and put it in a reusable library (again a
wrapper)

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Re: [Lazarus] Changes to fpWeb...

2017-01-16 Thread Lars via Lazarus 
On Mon, January 16, 2017 12:19 pm, Daniel Gaspary via Lazarus wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Michael Schnell via Lazarus
>  wrote:
>
>> Does fpweb / weblaz already support status messages from the server to
>> the client (or will it some day) to allow for "Rich Web Applications") ?
>>
>
> I don't work very often with web, but I'm curious...
>
>
> Can you give examples of these messages? And who (nginx, apache..?)
> and how they are implemented?
>
> Thanks.


Indeed, does he mean javascript pop up messages, but initiated by the
server? when is the message displayed and why would it be displayed?  an
ajax on the current web page loaded, but initiated by the server?

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Re: [Lazarus] Changes to fpWeb...

2017-01-16 Thread Daniel Gaspary via Lazarus 
On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Michael Schnell via Lazarus
 wrote:
> Does fpweb / weblaz already support status messages from the server to the
> client (or will it some day) to allow for "Rich Web Applications") ?

I don't work very often with web, but I'm curious...

Can you give examples of these messages? And who (nginx, apache..?)
and how they are implemented?

Thanks.
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Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College

2017-01-16 Thread Martin Schreiber via Lazarus 
On Sunday 15 January 2017 15:30:44 Martin Vahi via Lazarus wrote:
>
> I haven't used Lazarus yet, I need to learn it,
> but during the development of my own
> JavaScript GUI library I have came to a conclusion
> that GUI-s are inherently something that require
> "dynamic programming" or the code gets really bloated.
>
That's the reason why systems like Lazarus, fpGUI and MSEide+MSEgui have been 
invented. ;-)
You really should try them.

Martin
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Re: [Lazarus] Semicolon checking

2017-01-16 Thread Martin Frb via Lazarus 

On 16/01/2017 12:29, DougC via Lazarus wrote:

I'm not going to kick you, Mark, as your comments are spot on.

What I think wold be very helpful to the FPC community is a warning 
that is issued when a semi-colon is immediately followed by a "begin" 
as that is an unusual construct and, as shown in the example here, an 
indicator of a likely mistake.


Well you can set the IDE to highlight such cases. (At least so long as 
the ; is on the same line, and right after the else)


In Options / Editor / go to "user defined markup" (F1 should get the 
wiki help)


Add a new term. Add the words
then;
then ;
else;
else ;

and if you want with several spaces too.

Then set the background color to a strong red. Et voila.

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Re: [Lazarus] Semicolon checking

2017-01-16 Thread DougC via Lazarus 
I'm not going to kick you, Mark, as your comments are spot on. 



What I think wold be very helpful to the FPC community is a warning that is 
issued when a semi-colon is immediately followed by a "begin" as that is an 
unusual construct and, as shown in the example here, an indicator of a likely 
mistake.



Doug C.





 On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 03:27:25 -0500 Mark Morgan Lloyd via Lazarus 
 wrote 




On 16/01/17 07:30, Lars via Lazarus wrote:

> On Sun, January 15, 2017 3:30 pm, Vojtěch Čihák via Lazarus wrote:> 
Hello, has Lazarus (CodeTools) or FPC some checking for empty commands? I> 
accidentally did this stupid mistake: > if ... then begin>> end 
else;> begin> ...> exit;> end;>

> Yikes! I think you just discovered a bug in the pascal language itselfthat 
was not thought of... as when using a text editor it's easy to leavea semi 
colon laying around by accident some times.

> I wonder if Oberon solves this issue, or semi-colon-less languages haveany 
advantage. If you remove the begin from a language (Wirth did in hislater 
languages) you get rid of some issues.-- 
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It's one of a number of known nasties in the language definition. This 

is controversial, but Pascal was defined with ; being a /separator/ not 

a /terminator/, so strictly a semicolon is not needed before end else 

until etc. and in my experience only using it where necessary is a good 

habit to get into ( ;until was a syntax error in at least some versions 

of Turbo Pascal).



One other thing that helps in a very small way is to use 

case-otherwise-end rather than case-else-end, since it reduces the 

number of ambiguities.



Apart from that Wirth deserves no credit at all for leaving the 

dangling-else ambiguity in Pascal when it had been recognised and 

eliminated in ALGOL-68.



I expect to get kicked for all of the above. They are my opinions only, 

and might not be aligned with e.g. the coding style expected in patches 

submitted to the FPC or Lazarus projects.



-- 

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markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk



[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

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Re: [Lazarus] Teaching Pascal at College

2017-01-16 Thread Michael Schnell via Lazarus 

On 15.01.2017 15:30, Martin Vahi via Lazarus wrote:

have came to a conclusion
that GUI-s are inherently something that require
"dynamic programming" or the code gets really bloated.

The nice thing about Lazarus "RAD" paradigm is that this is completely 
hidden (in the library) from application programmer. So (s)he only needs 
to write the code that is obviously useful for the task at hand. So 
adding a GUI for the single purpose of debugging / visualizing the 
application code makes a lot of sense.


-Michael
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Re: [Lazarus] Changes to fpWeb...

2017-01-16 Thread Michael Schnell via Lazarus 

On 14.01.2017 15:34, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
I'm feeling we've started to go ahead writing complex Web systems 
Does fpweb / weblaz already support status messages from the server to 
the client (or will it some day) to allow for "Rich Web Applications") ?

Thanks Michael and all those who have been contributing for these new features.

+1 !!!
-Michael
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Re: [Lazarus] Semicolon checking

2017-01-16 Thread Mark Morgan Lloyd via Lazarus 

On 16/01/17 07:30, Lars via Lazarus wrote:

On Sun, January 15, 2017 3:30 pm, Vojtěch Čihák via Lazarus wrote:> Hello, has Lazarus (CodeTools) or 
FPC some checking for empty commands? I> accidentally did this stupid mistake:  > if ... then 
begin>>   end else;>   begin> ...> exit;>   end;>
Yikes! I think you just discovered a bug in the pascal language itselfthat was 
not thought of... as when using a text editor it's easy to leavea semi colon 
laying around by accident some times.
I wonder if Oberon solves this issue, or semi-colon-less languages haveany 
advantage.  If you remove the begin from a language (Wirth did in hislater 
languages) you get rid of some issues.-- 
___Lazarus mailing 
listLazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.orghttp://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus


It's one of a number of known nasties in the language definition. This 
is controversial, but Pascal was defined with ; being a /separator/ not 
a /terminator/, so strictly a semicolon is not needed before  end else 
until  etc. and in my experience only using it where necessary is a good 
habit to get into ( ;until was a syntax error in at least some versions 
of Turbo Pascal).


One other thing that helps in a very small way is to use 
case-otherwise-end rather than case-else-end, since it reduces the 
number of ambiguities.


Apart from that Wirth deserves no credit at all for leaving the 
dangling-else ambiguity in Pascal when it had been recognised and 
eliminated in ALGOL-68.


I expect to get kicked for all of the above. They are my opinions only, 
and might not be aligned with e.g. the coding style expected in patches 
submitted to the FPC or Lazarus projects.


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
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