[Lazarus] Chromium embedded on freebsd or firefox embedded
What is the actual status of chromium embedded and firefox embedded on bsd? Does it only work on Windows and Linux? Seems there is not so much info about CEF in general on freebsd other than this info: https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-chromium/2014-January/001113.html I so much love the bsd license and want to move my desktop and some of my development over to BSD, but it just seems like bsd is constantly playing catch up to what linux and windows already had years ago. That's my biggest fear about all bsd's. Since I will be doing work with chromium embedded on multiple projects it will be interesting to know what the status of it is on bsd for lazarus? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Chromium embedded on freebsd or firefox embedded
On 2016-10-21 08:38, Lars via Lazarus wrote: > I so much love the bsd license and want to move my desktop and some of my > development over to BSD, but it just seems like bsd is constantly playing > catch up to what linux and windows already had years ago. I agree with the first part and disagree with the second part. :) I've switched to FreeBSD some 4 years ago, as my only desktop system for work and play. I've never been happier. My system runs for months on end without a reboot, I watch movies, browse the net, host multiple development VM's, run two 24/7 server VM's, and do all my daily development work on it. Upgrading is dead simple, and the ports system rocks! And the best part is ZFS - I'll never trust my data on anything else ever again. I also run a nVIDIA graphics card that drives 3 monitors. I've never been happier with my computer setup. I don't know about Chromium Embedded, but I did dab with Firefox Embedded 4 years ago, and from what I remember it was working fine. I never used in in a large-scale application though. I didn't like the large dependency I had to include with every application. Regards, Graeme -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ My public PGP key: http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Chromium embedded on freebsd or firefox embedded
On Fri, October 21, 2016 3:07 am, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote: > > I don't know about Chromium Embedded, but I did dab with Firefox > Embedded 4 years ago, and from what I remember it was working fine. I > never used in in a large-scale application though. I didn't like the large > dependency I had to include with every application. > Ahh, the dependency issue is definitely an issue since the dll's and files included are massive. Okay for large apps, but for small apps it increases the download size significantly. When you dabbed with firefox embedded, was it a lazarus component? Or did you make calls directly to an API without using a component? Appreciate Michael V. C.'s article on the topic, in a PDF. Some of the old links are dead though, referencing the newbielabs website. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Chromium embedded on freebsd or firefox embedded
On 2016-10-21 12:23, Lars via Lazarus wrote: > but for small apps it increases > the download size significantly. Exactly. > When you dabbed with firefox embedded, was it a lazarus component? It's been a while, but I believe it was a Lazarus component. Regards, Graeme -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ My public PGP key: http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Chromium embedded on freebsd or firefox embedded
El 21/10/2016 a las 13:23, Lars via Lazarus escribió: When you dabbed with firefox embedded, was it a lazarus component? Or did you make calls directly to an API without using a component? Hello, Embeded Firefox is not possible anymore via XulRunner as embedded support has been dropped by Mozilla. The only way is to get Firefox sources and maintain something that can be embedded, but since since Firefox 40 +/- internat API is not frozen anymore, also projects like Thunderbird have troubles now to follow API changes. Firefox embedded does not work properly in Lazarus since Firefox 9 +/- and it is not possible to make it work unless forking Firefox xulrunner. -- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Chromium embedded on freebsd or firefox embedded
On Fri, October 21, 2016 6:04 am, José Mejuto via Lazarus wrote: > > Embeded Firefox is not possible anymore via XulRunner as embedded > support has been dropped by Mozilla. Really? I heard about them changing the architecture to a new embedded architecture and no longer supporting an old architecture in the new code base, but not dropping support entirely for the entire embedded system? Or lazarus is simply not yet supporting the new architecture they came up with? > Firefox embedded does not work properly in Lazarus since Firefox 9 +/- > and it is not possible to make it work unless forking Firefox xulrunner. Isn't there a new xulrunner architecutre they created to replace it.. that's what I remember reading. I will find a link to the page and report back here soon if I find it. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Chromium embedded on freebsd or firefox embedded
On Fri, October 21, 2016 8:19 pm, Lars wrote: >> Firefox embedded does not work properly in Lazarus since Firefox 9 +/- >> and it is not possible to make it work unless forking Firefox xulrunner. >> > > Isn't there a new xulrunner architecutre they created to replace it.. > that's what I remember reading. I will find a link to the page and report > back here soon if I find it. > As promised, links: https://github.com/zotero/translation-server/issues/24 Someone says that there is now something called a Firefox SDK or Gecko SDK instead of xulrunner... I wonder if it replaces it or is more complicated/difficult to use and not intended so much for embedding? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Chromium embedded on freebsd or firefox embedded
El 22/10/2016 a las 5:10, Lars via Lazarus escribió: As promised, links: https://github.com/zotero/translation-server/issues/24 Someone says that there is now something called a Firefox SDK or Gecko SDK instead of xulrunner... I wonder if it replaces it or is more complicated/difficult to use and not intended so much for embedding? Hello, Yes XulRunner is being replaced by GeckoSDK, but the main difference is that XulRunner had an stable API (frozen) and some semi-stable APIs, so most base functions for embed are stable. This is now longer available in GeckoSDK where nothing is frozen, API can change from release to release and the only way to embed it is writing a C code that generates a plain C interface that must link against a moving target. It is expected that somebody write such library in a near future but each library will match an specific Gecko engine, not as in XulRunner where old code should work with modern Gecko. The decision was taken around Firefox 40 because the browser needs a major rewrite to handle things like multiprocess rendering which are (from developers point of view) impossible to keep running with current XulRunner architecture, so instead XulRunner n.0 they simply drop XulRunner and all the satellite projects around Firefox. I'll try later to find the relevant links I had found in the past about this topic, found after spending a lot of hours trying to make morend XulRunners work embedded in Lazarus. -- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Chromium embedded on freebsd or firefox embedded
El 22/10/2016 a las 5:10, Lars via Lazarus escribió: Isn't there a new xulrunner architecutre they created to replace it.. that's what I remember reading. I will find a link to the page and report back here soon if I find it. https://github.com/zotero/translation-server/issues/24 Someone says that there is now something called a Firefox SDK or Gecko SDK instead of xulrunner... I wonder if it replaces it or is more complicated/difficult to use and not intended so much for embedding? Hello, The link that explains almost anything: https://dutherenverseauborddelatable.wordpress.com/2016/03/07/the-gecko-monoculture/ And the link that shows the embedding problem: http://chrislord.net/index.php/2016/03/08/state-of-embedding-in-gecko/ -- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Chromium embedded on freebsd or firefox embedded
On Sat, October 22, 2016 4:59 am, José Mejuto via Lazarus wrote: > Hello, > > > Yes XulRunner is being replaced by GeckoSDK, but the main difference is > that XulRunner had an stable API (frozen) and some semi-stable APIs, so > most base functions for embed are stable. This is now longer available in > GeckoSDK where nothing is frozen, API can change from release to > release and the only way to embed it is writing a C code that generates a > plain C interface that must link against a moving target. > I see! You certainly are very knowledgeable about the subject and have done a lot of research on it. Now it makes sense to me more. This api that continually changes, reminds me of MySQL. I wrote web programs only to find out they broke, when mysql changed their API, and then freepascal had to release a newer file that linked to the DLL. It's a nightmare when api continually changes. I can see them (firefox) changing the architecture to support multiprocess though. > I'll try later to find the relevant links I had found in the past about > this topic, found after spending a lot of hours trying to make morend > XulRunners work embedded in Lazarus. > Your knowledge on the subject is significant! Thanks. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Chromium embedded on freebsd or firefox embedded
On Sat, October 22, 2016 7:25 am, José Mejuto via Lazarus wrote: > > The link that explains almost anything: > > > https://dutherenverseauborddelatable.wordpress.com/2016/03/07/the-gecko-m > onoculture/ > > And the link that shows the embedding problem: > > > http://chrislord.net/index.php/2016/03/08/state-of-embedding-in-gecko/ > Those are some interesting reads. It confirms my gut instinct to choose chromium embedded (CEF) for development, instead of mozilla embedded, as chromium embedded seems more designed for embedding at this stage than the more immature firefox code. I wonder how often chromium embedded breaks their api, or changes the V8 engine so that old stuff no longer works. One thing I'd really like is a single DLL to ship with an application instead of mounds and mounds of files that these embedded solutions require. However I guess that's not going to happen. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Chromium embedded on freebsd or firefox embedded
El 24/10/2016 a las 2:19, Lars via Lazarus escribió: Those are some interesting reads. It confirms my gut instinct to choose chromium embedded (CEF) for development, instead of mozilla embedded, as chromium embedded seems more designed for embedding at this stage than the more immature firefox code. Hello, Yes, currently Chromium seems to be better, but anyway it will need a lot of work starting from the CEF as if my brain serves me CEF API is C++ so you will find the same problem as Qt interface, a very big DLL/so to convert C++ to plain C functions that will need a quite good maintain. I wonder how often chromium embedded breaks their api, or changes the V8 engine so that old stuff no longer works. As far as I know it is quite stable now. One thing I'd really like is a single DLL to ship with an application instead of mounds and mounds of files that these embedded solutions require. However I guess that's not going to happen. No for sure, that will not happen :) unless you use some dirty tricks. In the past I was able to "inject" 3 or 4 DLLs in my EXE and use them, but only in 32 bits Windows and I was unable to port the code to the 64 bits windows loader (it basically performs the same actions Windows do when load a DLL from disk, but the function loads it from a resource and adjust the call pointers and other things as Windows will do it). Of course that method will not with all DLLs. -- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Chromium embedded on freebsd or firefox embedded
On Mon, October 24, 2016 5:33 am, José Mejuto via Lazarus wrote: > Hello, > > > Yes, currently Chromium seems to be better, but anyway it will need a > lot of work starting from the CEF as if my brain serves me CEF API is C++ > so you will find the same problem as Qt interface, a very big DLL/so to > convert C++ to plain C functions that will need a quite good maintain. > http://wiki.freepascal.org/fpCEF3 I was under the impression someone had already done a lot of the work already porting all the C++ code... Just wondered if it was usable on BD or mostly focused on Windows and linux... also macosx interests me. >> I wonder how often chromium embedded breaks their api, or changes the >> V8 >> engine so that old stuff no longer works. > > As far as I know it is quite stable now. > > Just found out that some things in CEF1 are no longer working in CEF3: example: they removed the Listener functions which were really useful, now you have to use javascript listener code instead. So they have broken some stuff from CEF1 to CEF3 but probably not nearly as broken as firefox embedded! This is because firefox never started out as a multi process browser, whereas chromium had a head start on multi process. >> One thing I'd really like is a single DLL to ship with an application >> instead of mounds and mounds of files that these embedded solutions >> require. However I guess that's not going to happen. > > No for sure, that will not happen :) unless you use some dirty tricks. > In the past I was able to "inject" 3 or 4 DLLs in my EXE and use them, > but only in 32 bits Windows and I was unable to port the code to the 64 > bits windows loader (it basically performs the same actions Windows do > when load a DLL from disk, but the function loads it from a resource and > adjust the call pointers and other things as Windows will do it). > > Of course that method will not with all DLLs. Interesting, I've heard of similar delphi tricks before of embedding exe's or dll's inside exe's in order to ship a single binary .. In fact this brings back nostalgia of reading about it 10-14 years ago. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
