Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
2010/7/2 Reimar Grabowski : > On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 01:09:58 +0200 > Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: > >> Some >> take their "hobby" way to serious here, and treats the mailing lists >> like the Nazi Camps from way back. > > You should think before you write mails. This is a very serious advice. > Comparing anything today to this time shows clearly that you absolutely do > not know what you are talking about. > I had a much better opinion of you before this mail. > I am very disappointed. > Aha, the Godwin's law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a "fpGUI is better than Lazarus" approaches 1. Gustavo > You should read this very carefully before talking about this topic again > (even if you just want to insult people): > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust > > This is not funny at all. And your disrespect for the more then 6 million > murdered people is very alarming. > Use your brain before you write mails. > > R. > -- > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? > A: Top-posting. > Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? > > -- > ___ > Lazarus mailing list > Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org > http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus > -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 01:09:58 +0200 Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: > Some > take their "hobby" way to serious here, and treats the mailing lists > like the Nazi Camps from way back. You should think before you write mails. This is a very serious advice. Comparing anything today to this time shows clearly that you absolutely do not know what you are talking about. I had a much better opinion of you before this mail. I am very disappointed. You should read this very carefully before talking about this topic again (even if you just want to insult people): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust This is not funny at all. And your disrespect for the more then 6 million murdered people is very alarming. Use your brain before you write mails. R. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On 2 July 2010 18:11, Henry Vermaak wrote: > > This is not a democracy, we have a list moderator that steers these things > and keeps the spam away. I'm all for a list moderator doing its job - with a bit of moderation obviously. Being a list moderator / core developer or having a bit of the "god complex syndrome" seems to be a very fine line to walk. Some take their "hobby" way to serious here, and treats the mailing lists like the Nazi Camps from way back. If everybody here had a bit more relaxed attitude and some leniency, it will take the respective open source projects a lot further. I guess its enough said on this topic - nobody listens anyway. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On 2 July 2010 19:04, Florian Klämpfl wrote: > > The less people can spam on mailing lists, the more they can code. And here I thought multi-tasking is a common practice these days. :-) Maybe not everybody is as good at it as I thought. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] TListView - BeginEdit and Click to Rename not working
On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 16:45:45 -0500 Andrew Brunner wrote: > Hi there, > > I noticed a few bugs reported for TListView. Under Ubuntu 10.04 I > don't have BeginEdit and With ReadOnly:=False I still can't get the > Control to Begin Editing. What gives. I don't recall this ever being > an issue before? > > Do I need to enter the flaw or is someone working on the linux version > of the component? Please create a bug report. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Possible bug
On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 17:09:29 -0300 "Leonardo M." Ramé wrote: > This bug is here since at least two weeks. > > Tested on Revision 26392 - Linux x86_64 - GTK2. I cannot reproduce this bug. Lucid 64-Bit same gtk2 version FPC 2.5.1 rev 15303 Lazarus rev 26392 and rev 26430 R. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] TListView - BeginEdit and Click to Rename not working
Hi there, I noticed a few bugs reported for TListView. Under Ubuntu 10.04 I don't have BeginEdit and With ReadOnly:=False I still can't get the Control to Begin Editing. What gives. I don't recall this ever being an issue before? Do I need to enter the flaw or is someone working on the linux version of the component? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Parser
Mattias Gaertner schrieb: > On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 00:19:34 +0200 > Mattias Gaertner wrote: > >> On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 21:53:47 +0200 >> Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: >> >>> Mattias Gaertner schrieb: >>> Why is this in the lazarus examples? Why not put it to the fpc sources? >>> Because I can commit only to the Lazarus examples :-( >> [...] >> You could have asked the fpc team or put it into one of the many free >> repositories. >> [...] >> If the above is the only reason, then you should remove it. > > Any progress? Just mail me a login and password to get your own branch in the fpc svn. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Parser
On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 00:19:34 +0200 Mattias Gaertner wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 21:53:47 +0200 > Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: > > > Mattias Gaertner schrieb: > > > > > Why is this in the lazarus examples? Why not put it to the fpc sources? > > > > Because I can commit only to the Lazarus examples :-( > >[...] > You could have asked the fpc team or put it into one of the many free > repositories. >[...] > If the above is the only reason, then you should remove it. Any progress? Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On 2 July 2010 17:55, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: >> This is not a democracy, we have a list moderator that steers these things >> and keeps the spam away. > > I thought Free Pascal is open source. Such an arrogant attitude will not Open source doesn't mean democracy, where did you get that idea? Only projects with proper steering survive. > help to promote Free Pascal very much. An "go away if you don't like it" is > not the spirit of enthusiastical Pascal programmers/developers/whatever. It How do you know what the "spirit" of pascal programmers are? Are you just saying stuff because it sounds nice in your head? > seems that sooner or later a split of the (free) Pascal community will > happen because not all are willing to subordinate under such an arrogant > leadership. How can I be arrogant if I'm stating a fact? Do you even know what the word means? You are the arrogant one if you think people want to read your off topic trolling. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
Florian Klämpfl http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus>> wrote: The less people can spam on mailing lists, the more they can code. Since experience showed that code contribuitions is usually reciprocally proportional to the generated mailing list noise by a person Hehe, this is one for my collection of quotations -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Possible bug
El vie, 02-07-2010 a las 09:38 +0200, zeljko escribió: > On Friday 02 July 2010 03:11, Leonardo M. Ramé wrote: > > El vie, 02-07-2010 a las 00:25 +0200, Mattias Gaertner escribió: > > > On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 17:09:29 -0300 > > > "Leonardo M." Ramé wrote: > > > > > > What gtk version do you use? > > > Can you try to find the svn revision that broke it? > > > > > > > > > Mattias > > > > My libgtk2.0-0 is 2.20.1-0ubuntu2. Is that what do you need?. > > > > About trying to find which revision broke it, it's a difficult task, I > > think it could be easier to try to find and fix the bug, I don't have > > any problem in doing this. > > I don't think that's lazarus regression, but problem which raised with > gtk2-2.20 (under Fedora 13 caret even doesn't blink).Some structures have > been changed in gtk2 so that problem will become worst with every new gtk2 > version if we don't do something in our gtk2 translated code. > I cannot reproduce your problem with gtk2-2.12 / 2.18. > > zeljko I think it's a regression, or something with the x86_64 version, because I tested in Lazarus 0.9.28-8 i386 - SVN Rev. 22277 - FPC 2.4.0 and it doesn't have the same issue. -- Leonardo M. Ramé Griensu S.A. - Medical IT Córdoba Tel.: 0351-4247979 -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 19:04:32 +0200 Florian Klämpfl wrote: > The less people can spam on mailing lists, the more they can code. Since > experience showed that code contribuitions is usually reciprocally > proportional to the generated mailing list noise by a person, moderation > is often a good thing. The best example is Mattias, no noise, lots of code. :) R. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
Jürgen Hestermann schrieb: >> This is not a democracy, we have a list moderator that steers these >> things and keeps the spam away. > > I thought Free Pascal is open source. Such an arrogant attitude will not > help to promote Free Pascal very much. An "go away if you don't like it" > is not the spirit of enthusiastical Pascal > programmers/developers/whatever. It seems that sooner or later a split > of the (free) Pascal community will happen because not all are willing > to subordinate under such an arrogant leadership. The less people can spam on mailing lists, the more they can code. Since experience showed that code contribuitions is usually reciprocally proportional to the generated mailing list noise by a person, moderation is often a good thing. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
This is not a democracy, we have a list moderator that steers these things and keeps the spam away. I thought Free Pascal is open source. Such an arrogant attitude will not help to promote Free Pascal very much. An "go away if you don't like it" is not the spirit of enthusiastical Pascal programmers/developers/whatever. It seems that sooner or later a split of the (free) Pascal community will happen because not all are willing to subordinate under such an arrogant leadership. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On 02/07/10 16:18, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: On 2 July 2010 16:51, Vincent Snijders wrote: And by no means others must be forced to receive and scan off topic mails on the Lazarus list. And then comes the other problem What you might consider "off topic", I and others might consider "on topic". This is what Jürgen and I am talking about (including lost mails due to multiple lists and info fragmentation). This is not a democracy, we have a list moderator that steers these things and keeps the spam away. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On 7/2/2010 11:44 AM, Sven Barth wrote: Just a little correction: Although Adem has participated much in the parser thread, it was Hans-Peter Diettrich who started it. Thanks, Sven! -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
Hi! Am 02.07.2010 17:29, schrieb Doug Chamberlin: The real problem as I see it (bringing this back to the current situation) is that Adem failed to see that the parser thread really should have been moved to an FPC list from the Lazarus list. If that had been done a while back I believe everyone would have been happier. Just a little correction: Although Adem has participated much in the parser thread, it was Hans-Peter Diettrich who started it. Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 17:18:15 +0200 Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: > And then comes the other problem What you might consider "off > topic", I and others might consider "on topic". This is what Jürgen > and I am talking about (including lost mails due to multiple lists and > info fragmentation). No problem at all. What Vincent considers "off topic" is "off topic", regardless what you or I or anyone else thinks. He is the admin after all. We can voice our opinions but thats it. Same on the FPC list. Jonas is doing a great job there keeping everything "on topic" an directing people to the correct lists. Easy guideline is if it is purely/mostly about Lazarus it belongs here, if it is about FPC it belongs there (the parser is part of FPC, you won't get the source from the Lazarus svn). And I know for sure that you know the difference between a user and a devel list. So what is so hard about seperating threads regarding Lazarus and FPC. They are different, even if closely related, projects. Don't act ignorant, we know you are a smart guy. R. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
From a different perspective I could say "Manage your mailing lists!". I subscribe to about 20 different mailing lists. In some cases several of them all funnel into one local folder via my email client. I then review that folder for interesting stuff and ignore the threads I am not interested in. So handling multiple mailing lists is really not harder than managing one. The real problem as I see it (bringing this back to the current situation) is that Adem failed to see that the parser thread really should have been moved to an FPC list from the Lazarus list. If that had been done a while back I believe everyone would have been happier. But in the end, creating a new list for otherwise off-topic Lazarus discussions hurts no one and helps keep things organized so can we please stop bickering about this and move on? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On 2 July 2010 16:51, Vincent Snijders wrote: > And by no means others must be forced to receive and scan off topic > mails on the Lazarus list. And then comes the other problem What you might consider "off topic", I and others might consider "on topic". This is what Jürgen and I am talking about (including lost mails due to multiple lists and info fragmentation). I have been through all of this with fpGUI and tiOPF. We had many areas of posting questions. Forums, IRC, private email, newsgroups, mailing lists, SourceForge Forums etc... Many newcomers asked the same questions over and over, because the information that are looking for was already covered, they just couldn't find it. Information fragmentation. THAT is why tiOPF and fpGUI now have one single port of call - *one mailing list*. That's it! If you don't like a message thread, don't read it! This will teach posters to also use correct and descriptive message subject lines, otherwise they don't get feedback. Everybody is used to managing emails is some way or form. Nobody can fully stop spam messages. Just like you manage those, so you can manage other messages in a mailing list. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
> I am with Graeme here. Having "..other" lists is of no reason to me. There > is no strict distinction between the threats. Just making the subject line > speaking would be enough. If I want to organize the mails I can do that in > my email client as *I* like it. I don't want others doing this for me. > > The lazarus other list could be seen as a courtesy. We could also just kill off topic threads without redirecting them to an alternative list. And yes, by no means you are required to read and post lazarus-other. And by no means others must be forced to receive and scan off topic mails on the Lazarus list. Vincent -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
Henry Vermaak schrieb: No, all the crap can go to the other list, so things will be _easier_ to find and _easier_ to read. This is great because I can subscribe to that list and ignore it (unless I'm bored). I am with Graeme here. Having "..other" lists is of no reason to me. There is no strict distinction between the threats. Just making the subject line speaking would be enough. If I want to organize the mails I can do that in my email client as *I* like it. I don't want others doing this for me. I am interested in everything that is related to FreePascal/Lazarus, even if a thread turns into a different direction. Who judges what is "off topic" and what not? I was already cut off from threads because I first did not even *know* that other Free Pascal lists exist. If everything goes into one list it's quite easy to delete mails I am not interested in but it's much harder to notice that other (Free Pascal related) lists exist. Jürgen. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 14:25:25 +0200 Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: > Then while Vincent is at it, why not create a few more - to keep > things organized. Here are some suggestions: [note the sarcasm]. > > lazarus-ide-support > lazarus-lcl-support > lazarus-lcl-devel > lazarus-ide-devel > lazarus-coreteam-only > lazarus-non-technical > > If I'm bored enough, I am sure I can think of a few more. > I can't imagine why anybody would want to complain about traffic in > the FPC or Lazarus mailing lists. If you want to see traffic, > subscribe to the Apache, Linux Kernel, Git etc mailing lists. They > receive 150+ messages a day easily! Strange argumentation. Why did you create a fpgui mailing list then? The topics could be discussed on the FPC list as well as it only works with FPC and about 20 mails a month don't clutter the list that much (your argumentation not mine). Why not ask the gcc, python, java, etc guys to join affords for one programming-compiling-interpreting list? All information about coding in one place. One list to rule them all... Over and out R. p.s.: Where is my gold star? -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On 02/07/10 13:45, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: On 2 July 2010 14:37, Henry Vermaak wrote: How did you come to the conclusion that I don't know how to use my email client? Please move this discussion to lazarus-other, it is very off-topic here. Haha, and you wonder why you wind people up the wrong way? Your arrogance will get you nowhere. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On 2 July 2010 14:37, Henry Vermaak wrote: > > How did you come to the conclusion that I don't know how to use my email > client? Please move this discussion to lazarus-other, it is very off-topic here. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On 02/07/10 13:21, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: On 2 July 2010 14:00, Henry Vermaak wrote: No, all the crap can go to the other list, so things will be _easier_ to find and _easier_ to read. This is great because I can subscribe to that list and ignore it (unless I'm bored). And you can't do the same with this list, by simply looking at the thread title? I do this all the time, if the title doesn't interest me, I mark the how thread as read, and it doesn't bother me more. Yes, I do this, too. The point is that I can do that unconditionally for the -other list, since I can create a filter. I can't create a filter for off topic conversations now, so they just clutter my lazarus tags. Again, learn to use your email client. How did you come to the conclusion that I don't know how to use my email client? Henry -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
2010/7/2 Graeme Geldenhuys : > On 2 July 2010 14:11, Vincent Snijders wrote: >> >> No, I did not add the other lists either. Feel free to request it to Gmane. > > Only list admins can request Gmane mirrors. I don't see that on http://gmane.org/subscribe.php. Unless you consider lazarus-other as "a social or non-technical list" and even then you could point to this thread to show you have aproval. Vincent -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On 02/07/10 13:29, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: On 2 July 2010 14:11, Vincent Snijders wrote: No, I did not add the other lists either. Feel free to request it to Gmane. This is exactly my point - information gets lost or fragmented now. They will not be searchable by somebody that subscribes 3 months from now (default Mailman archives are not searchable). Why would you want to search the lazarus-other list? Any on topic, search-worthy information will be in the normal list. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On 2 July 2010 14:11, Vincent Snijders wrote: > > No, I did not add the other lists either. Feel free to request it to Gmane. This is exactly my point - information gets lost or fragmented now. They will not be searchable by somebody that subscribes 3 months from now (default Mailman archives are not searchable). PS: Only list admins can request Gmane mirrors. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On 2 July 2010 13:38, Reimar Grabowski wrote: > > I am a clairvoyant. I knew that you would say this. You win a gold star. > And what you call fragmentation other people call order (yeah, we germans can > be a little anal when it comes to this). Then while Vincent is at it, why not create a few more - to keep things organized. Here are some suggestions: [note the sarcasm]. lazarus-ide-support lazarus-lcl-support lazarus-lcl-devel lazarus-ide-devel lazarus-coreteam-only lazarus-non-technical If I'm bored enough, I am sure I can think of a few more. I can't imagine why anybody would want to complain about traffic in the FPC or Lazarus mailing lists. If you want to see traffic, subscribe to the Apache, Linux Kernel, Git etc mailing lists. They receive 150+ messages a day easily! -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On 2 July 2010 14:00, Henry Vermaak wrote: > > No, all the crap can go to the other list, so things will be _easier_ to > find and _easier_ to read. This is great because I can subscribe to that > list and ignore it (unless I'm bored). And you can't do the same with this list, by simply looking at the thread title? I do this all the time, if the title doesn't interest me, I mark the how thread as read, and it doesn't bother me more. Again, learn to use your email client. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
2010/7/2 Graeme Geldenhuys : > On 2 July 2010 11:49, Vincent Snijders wrote: >> For those discussions a new mailing list has been created. You can >> subscribe here: > Did you request it be added to Gmane too? No, I did not add the other lists either. Feel free to request it to Gmane. Vincent -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On 02/07/10 12:13, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: On 2 July 2010 11:49, Vincent Snijders wrote: For those discussions a new mailing list has been created. You can subscribe here: Oh boy! We need *less* mailing lists, not *more*. Information will now get fragmented even more. :-( No, all the crap can go to the other list, so things will be _easier_ to find and _easier_ to read. This is great because I can subscribe to that list and ignore it (unless I'm bored). -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 13:13:05 +0200 Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: > Oh boy! We need *less* mailing lists, not *more*. Information will > now get fragmented even more. :-( I am a clairvoyant. I knew that you would say this. The reason seems to be that some people are only subscribed to the Lazarus list and can not be bothered to subscribe to the FPC lists as well. So they need a Lazarus list to discuss the stuff that is off-topic here. And what you call fragmentation other people call order (yeah, we germans can be a little anal when it comes to this). But a good mail client can help you alot with coping with the millions of fpc/lazarus mailing lists. ;) A very amused R. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
Information will now get fragmented even more. And who subscribed to this list will now get what he expects and not tons of slightly (or not) related mails. I personally have never experienced gmail having a problem searching one more list. Thanks from me, too! -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On 2 July 2010 11:49, Vincent Snijders wrote: > For those discussions a new mailing list has been created. You can > subscribe here: Oh boy! We need *less* mailing lists, not *more*. Information will now get fragmented even more. :-( BTW: Did you request it be added to Gmane too? -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 11:49:59 +0200 Vincent Snijders wrote: > For those discussions a new mailing list has been created. You can > subscribe here: > http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus-other Good choice. Thanks for doing this. Greetings R. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
On 02/07/10 10:49, Vincent Snijders wrote: Lately I have noticed that the Lazarus list has been (mis-)used for discussion not really related to Lazarus. The current parser thread is an example of that. For those discussions a new mailing list has been created. You can subscribe here: http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus-other Fantastic, thanks for doing this. Henry -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] Lazarus-other list
Lately I have noticed that the Lazarus list has been (mis-)used for discussion not really related to Lazarus. The current parser thread is an example of that. For those discussions a new mailing list has been created. You can subscribe here: http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus-other I hope that discussion on the Lazarus mailing list remain more on topic. With kind regards, Vincent Snijders Lazarus Mailing list admin -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Parser
On Fri, Jul 02, 2010 at 06:13:06PM +1000, Peter E Williams wrote: > I have been trying to follow this discussion but didn't know what part > to quote. > > I was under the possibly mistaken impression that Delphi allowed the > user to link in C/C++ code to a Delphi project. I have never done this. > I assumed that Lazarus could link in GNU C/C++ code. Is this, or ever > will it, be possible. What is stopping us from doing this? Dodi thinks integrating a C compiler will allow him to do away with writing headers for such code in Pascal. I don't. C++ is a different matter. While both Delphi and FPC can link to it, it can not use them. Even Delphi needs specially crafted C++ (pureclass) code to reuse them on a higher level (without VMT hackery). This even though BCB is from the same vendor. The same for the other way around, BCB using Delphi/Pascal code requires a lot of $externalsym in the Pascal code so that a header can be generated for it. Show me a similar product, and I'll show you the compromises they had to make that make this non-trivial. Why? Because there is a fundamental problem, that can't be brushed away that easily. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Parser
Hi! Am 02.07.2010 10:43, schrieb Adem: On 2010-07-02 11:37, Sven Barth wrote: But I have many dreams and a very huge todo-List (alone for FPC: cppclass , Native NT port, Minix port, maybe usage of SEH for Win32) and I'm also studying and have a job (the latter two are the reason I'm currently not much working on said FPC pet projects -.-)... Curious: What will cppclass do in FPC? Is it something like this http://packages.python.org/PyBindGen/cppclass.html It says "A CppClass object takes care of generating the code for wrapping a C++ class" Cheers, Adem -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus It's an old feature of Free Pascal that was never fully implemented and should allow to link with C++ code/libaries without flattening the interface (like done with QT). It establishes a completly new object hierarchy that is unrelated to TObject like Jonas has done with objcclass to interface with Objective-C. You can search for "cppclass site:freepascal.org" to find some bug reports and mailing list entries regarding this. It's not yet documented, because I've not yet found the time to do this. Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Parser
On 2010-07-02 11:37, Sven Barth wrote: But I have many dreams and a very huge todo-List (alone for FPC: cppclass , Native NT port, Minix port, maybe usage of SEH for Win32) and I'm also studying and have a job (the latter two are the reason I'm currently not much working on said FPC pet projects -.-)... Curious: What will cppclass do in FPC? Is it something like this http://packages.python.org/PyBindGen/cppclass.html It says "A CppClass object takes care of generating the code for wrapping a C++ class" Cheers, Adem -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Parser
Hi! Am 02.07.2010 10:29, schrieb Adem: But, the unfortunate thing is, unless someone has already done it, no amount of valid reasons alone can assure that you'll get those capabilities added. Yes, that is the problem... :( Why don't you consider organizing/initating something yourself? Don't think that I haven't thought of that already. :P But I have many dreams and a very huge todo-List (alone for FPC: cppclass, Native NT port, Minix port, maybe usage of SEH for Win32) and I'm also studying and have a job (the latter two are the reason I'm currently not much working on said FPC pet projects -.-)... In some time perhaps, but not now (and that might be too late... *sigh*). Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Parser
On 2010-07-02 11:13, Peter E Williams wrote: I was under the possibly mistaken impression that Delphi allowed the user to link in C/C++ code to a Delphi project. I have never done this. Unless I too am terribly mistaken, Delphi cannot directly use C/C++ source code. You first create .obj files from C/C++ source code using only Borland's C/C++ compiler and then link them to your delphi unit. The above description could be incorrect, though. I vaguely remember doing something like this (a simple compile from other peoples already customized-for-purpose code) a couple of decades ago. I assumed that Lazarus could link in GNU C/C++ code. Is this, or ever will it, be possible. What is stopping us from doing this? I don't know about GNU C/C++, but I came across to this recent post in FPC-devel while doing a search on the Net a couple hours ago. [I have no idea why I didn't receive it from the list] http://www.mail-archive.com/fpc-pas...@lists.freepascal.org/msg20812.html It may or may not be a starting point for that capability. Cheers, Adem -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Parser
On 2010-07-02 10:55, Sven Barth wrote: It's not about escaping Pascal, but to grant the language new possibilities. On Android phones you can only use Java to access all subsystems of the device (e.g. GUI). You can access the framebuffer from native code though, but directly drawing to a memory field is not the same as using the available GUI classes. It has yet to be found out whether you can access the JVM from a native application (not a native library which is loaded by JVM). Also the new Windows Phone 7 series relies completly on .Net, so our WinCE cross compiler is completly useless here (the usage of .Net is enforced by the kernel itself). And Microsoft might also try to prepare the way for full .Net desktop operating systems. Now that they've discovered virtualization (Windows 7 XP Mode) the compatibility problems might stop them no more. We might not see this in Windows 8 and maybe not in Windows 9 either. But perhaps Windows 10 might be the big breaker of Win32? Free Pascal should be able to compile for these plattforms. But I don't mind to use a completly different RTL and object model that suits the targeted plattform, I only want to use the language which I believe is superior to C# and Java. All good and valid points. I respectfully retract my earlier comments in these very cases. But, the unfortunate thing is, unless someone has already done it, no amount of valid reasons alone can assure that you'll get those capabilities added. Why don't you consider organizing/initating something yourself? Cheers, Adem -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Parser
On 07/01/2010 07:12 PM, Adem wrote: Even though these can come across as nothing to do with Lazarus, they actually are --if you consider the fact that here in Lazarus list people are focused on writing applications, i.e. not compiler develeopment, anything that can expand/help with that purpose belongs to this list's very domain. In fact the Lazarus developers could decide to make the Lazarus IDE C aware and use gcc to compile the stuff. (Not that I would vote for ding so) -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Parser
On Thu, 2010-07-01 at 11:45 +0200,lazarus-requ...@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org wrote: Hi, > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 19:30:26 +0200 > From: Hans-Peter Diettrich > Subject: Re: [Lazarus] Parser > To: Lazarus mailing list > Message-ID: <4c2cd0b2.7060...@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Florian Klaempfl schrieb: > > >> A FP-propriety interface part would be added to the C units to make them > >> create an FP compatible compiled unit, usable in the normal way by > >> Pascal units and by the linker. > > > > > > ... and not fully automatable, so not better than current solutions. > > Even worse, it does not cover the cases which are really a problem like > > > > #define CONFIGURE_THE_HEADER_IN_A_CERTAIN_WAY // simple example are the > > UNICODE define in windows headers > > #include > > > > Things like this are the really nasty corner cases which make h2pas only > > semi automatic. > > This is correct, and also is the most important reason for a tighter > integration of C source code into FPC projects. > > > Show me a tool which translates C headers fully automatic in *usable* > > pascal units (test case e.g. glibc and mysql), then we can continue this > > discussion. > > Just an idea: > > The compiler can create the required (ppu?) files, when compiling a C > module. That file then perfectly reflects all the settings, that > affected the code generation of that module. Only this "header" version > is important for the use of that module, not any other > (mis-configurable) header files. > > Likewise the compiler can use the information in the ppu file, instead > of those found in any #include file. There may exist some technical > problems with this solution, because C enforces no correspondence > between header and implementation files, neither by name nor content, > but I think that solutions can be found on a package base. > > When a package contains a couple of C files, then a common package > header/ppu file could contain the descriptions of *all* items in that > package, and a list of related header files. Then the compiler can skip > over the listed #include files, and use the precise information in the > ppu file instead. This model only requires the construction of packages > for all used C files, and a one-time compilation of these packages, for > the construction of their ppu files. The compiler or a related tool can > create an dummy Pascal library unit for every such package, for easy > (human readable) use of the C packages in Pascal code. > > DoDi I have been trying to follow this discussion but didn't know what part to quote. I was under the possibly mistaken impression that Delphi allowed the user to link in C/C++ code to a Delphi project. I have never done this. I assumed that Lazarus could link in GNU C/C++ code. Is this, or ever will it, be possible. What is stopping us from doing this? I for one would like to open some of the Linux AisleRoit Solitaire C/C++ applications and try to run one or two of it's functions thru' a C/C++ converter then open the original C/C++ project and patch in Lazarus code. I don't want to convert the entire C/C++ code to Lazarus cos this would cause waves with the AisleRoit development team which are very pro C/C++ but it would be nice to say "Hey, guys, have a look at this. It's your own code with a Pascal/Lazarus patch which improves and enhances the original game. How about making it your next version. See, you don't even need to change your original C/C++ to Lazarus. All you need do is install Lazarus and Bob's your Aunt Fanny... you've got Lazarus code patched into C/C++ code and the best of both worlds." You never know, this might open a whole new team of Linux developers using and improving the Lazarus compiler. My C/C++ skills are okay but very rusty. There is a good reason why I don't like C/C++ and choose Pascal over it. I have done a few C/C++ to Pascal/Delphi ports of Games; completely rewriting the code. I think that Pascal is more readable than C/C++ but also that the Linux world is full of die-hard C/C++ programmers and it is our duty to show that we can patch in Pascal code elegantly without needing to rewrite all of their work. Peter -- Proudly developing Quality Cross Platform Open Source Games Since 1970 with a Commodore PET 4016 with 16 KRAM http://pews-freeware-games.org (<--- brand new -- still under development) -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Parser
On 2010-07-02 10:37, Aleksa Todorovic wrote: And I believe you are overlooking all problems coming with maintenance of such solution. I agree that having one parser for all different kind of usage is solution which would be great to have, but my opinion is that it should be based on fcl parser, not compiler's one. And later, IF (whoever does the job) succeeds in making such a good parser (which gets integrated into, for example, Lazarus and proves to be well implemented), only then it is time to think how to connect that parser with compiler's one. At least, that's how I see this situation. Why not this: Modularize FPC's parser and test in extensively in a forked FPC. If it passes, then propose it to FPC. Afterwards, FCL --as well as anyone else-- can use it to their hearts content. And, that expands horizons, brings in more talent. Which cannot be bad for FPC, can it? It all sounds really nice, doesn't it :-) Just wait till I tell you my plans for peace in Middle East, hunger in Ethiopia, law and order in Afghanistan etc. :) Cheers, Adem -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Parser
>I'm curious, can Java be used to write a dll? I did not know that Java can not create dll! I am very happy that many years ago when Java must had a special computer to run, unlike Delphi, gave up Java. I think some programmers in C, Java ... can not survive the thought that FPC is so quick and Lazarus is so easy to use! I made a simple test: I opened Lazarus, compile and run an empty project. It took 15". Just launch the Delphi 7 took 18"! For Delphi .Net will be longer. For Eclipse there is nothing to talk about. :) Thanks for the links! > Оригинално писмо >От: Mattias Gaertner >Относно: Re: [Lazarus] Parser >До: lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org >Изпратено на: Петък, 2010, Юли 2 09:53:50 EEST >On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:21:37 +0300 (EEST) >Rigel Rig wrote: > >> Windows has DLL-s. DLL, written in C, C ++... can be used in Delphi, and I >> guess in Lazarus. Why not use them? It is much easier. And you can write >> them in whatever language you want. > >I'm curious, can Java be used to write a dll? > > >> In Linux do you have something similar? Why not use it instead to mix >> Pascal with C, C++, Java... philosophy? > >I don't know why not, because lazarus does since the beginning. > >http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Overview_of_Free_Pascal_and_Lazarus >http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus/FPC_Libraries > > >> I can not understand one thing: is there a Lazarus project manager like in >> other open source projects? Why not he/she say will Lazarus support other >> languages except FP or not and stop this discussion? > >The tail of the discussion was about extending FPC to do the job of the >existing C compilers. >The main thread is - as far as I understand it - about extending the fpc >parser. I think it should be moved to fpc-devel or fpc-other. It is >not about lazarus. > > >Mattias > >-- >___ >Lazarus mailing list >Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org >http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus > - Зрелищни снимки от ЮАР 2010. Вижте най-интересните моменти! http://sportni.bg/worldcup2010/?tid=20&oid=1002-- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Parser
On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 10:02:20 +0300 Adem wrote: > On 2010-07-02 09:23, Mattias Gaertner wrote: > > On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 07:49:25 +0300 > > Adem wrote > >> [...] > >> Well.. the whole point is to *not* maintain any more than *one* parser > >> --and, that includes current n parsers (I am not sure what the value of > >> 'n' is). > >> > >> That is the target. > > Means? > > I still don't understand what do you really want to achieve. > Call it some form of perfectionism, if you like. Or 'unionism', for a > slightly better term. (reasons below) > > There are currently several different pascal parsers with different > > abilities for different purposes. For example the fpc one for compiling, > > synedit for highlighting, codetools has several for directives, > > declarations, indentations, fcl has one basic and extendable parser and so > > forth. > > Each one has abilities that the others do not have. > That's just it: There are simply too many of them neither one is as > complete or up-to-date as the original. > > And, the reason there are too many simply boils down to the fact that > the real/genuine/true one wasn't/isn't available. No. It's about speed and memory structures. Just think about a general parser. It must handle macros, directives, include files, spaces, encodings, comments, line endings, syntax errors. It must work for code snippets and needs a bunch of flags what to ignore while parsing. It creates an output with a lot of different nodes and every code that accesses this output must handle this vast amount of information and must be updated whenever the parser is changed. > I mean, it's not as if you need a completely different parser for IDE > purposes; the fact that you have to write and maintain one is because > you have to do it. > > And, as expected, each one of those baby-parsers are merely partial > emulators of the actual one. No. As I said: Every parser has features that the others don't have. For example the synedit parser can parse code snippets very fast, because it can save/restore its whole state very fast. The fpc parser can not do that. > I am surprised you (plural) don't see this as waste of resources, but > instead tell *me* it would be a waste of time to refactor the fpc-code > so that its parser can be used (or extended, as the case may be) as a > blackbox module downstream in all those projects which shouldn't have > had to write parsers. > > What do you want to use the fpc parser for? > It's not 'fpc parser' in the sense that it cannot be used anywhere else; > it is a parser that is currently used solely within free-pascal > compiler. I would like it to be available to other people too. It is available, it is open source. You want to change it, so it can be used for other things than compiling. So the question remains: For what other things? > Isn't this a good enough reason? It is, but please don't ignore the good reason against it. Speed, memory, zoo of flags, how to . > Do I have to have an ulterior motive? Shall I invent one :) > >> [...] > >> So, could I now ask for some constructive --instead of discouraging-- > >> criticism. > > The fear of slowing down the compiler and its development without seeing > > the gain is discouraging. > I do sympathize with those fears; but, as you'll agree, worries about > speed degradation can only be meaningfully addressed (put to rest) when > the actual code is available --no amount of talk or assurances can > help/change that. > > Now, about 'gain': > > I think you're overlooking medium/long term benefits. > > When you turn the parser into a module (for the purposes of usage > downstream, in IDE etc.), what you will have actually done is to make > that 'parser module' replaceable too. > > That alone can be worth its weight in gold, in the sense that from then > on, you can use other 'parser module's --such as, you name it, 'C > module', 'Modula module', 'Java module' etc. etc. Please take a look at projects that have replaceable parsers, like swig, highlighter systems, ctags. Swig was rewritten three times from scratch. Highlighters and ctags use only very small subsets of the languages and often not correct ones, just to fit into a general parser api. > And, that expands horizons, brings in more talent. > > Which cannot be bad for FPC, can it? There is not one solution for everything. Mattias -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Parser
Hi! Am 02.07.2010 00:49, schrieb Adem: On 2010-07-01 20:14, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: Well, if you need things to do: - Make fcl-passrc complete. (*NOT* extract parser from compiler). I just cannot understand this: What is so holy about the 'parser from compiler'? - use it to create a pascal to javascript translator. - Create a .net backend code generator. - Create a java bytecode backend code generator. Aren't all these some form of 'escape route's --from always Pascal to somewhere else? I mean, people --of course-- should be given opportunities to escape; but, what does it say about their concerns about Pascal in the first place :) Cheers, Adem It's not about escaping Pascal, but to grant the language new possibilities. On Android phones you can only use Java to access all subsystems of the device (e.g. GUI). You can access the framebuffer from native code though, but directly drawing to a memory field is not the same as using the available GUI classes. It has yet to be found out whether you can access the JVM from a native application (not a native library which is loaded by JVM). Also the new Windows Phone 7 series relies completly on .Net, so our WinCE cross compiler is completly useless here (the usage of .Net is enforced by the kernel itself). And Microsoft might also try to prepare the way for full .Net desktop operating systems. Now that they've discovered virtualization (Windows 7 XP Mode) the compatibility problems might stop them no more. We might not see this in Windows 8 and maybe not in Windows 9 either. But perhaps Windows 10 might be the big breaker of Win32? Free Pascal should be able to compile for these plattforms. But I don't mind to use a completly different RTL and object model that suits the targeted plattform, I only want to use the language which I believe is superior to C# and Java. Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Parser
On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 09:02, Adem wrote: > >>> [...] >>> So, could I now ask for some constructive --instead of discouraging-- >>> criticism. >> >> The fear of slowing down the compiler and its development without seeing >> the gain is discouraging. > > I do sympathize with those fears; but, as you'll agree, worries about speed > degradation can only be meaningfully addressed (put to rest) when the actual > code is available --no amount of talk or assurances can help/change that. > > Now, about 'gain': > > I think you're overlooking medium/long term benefits. > And I believe you are overlooking all problems coming with maintenance of such solution. I agree that having one parser for all different kind of usage is solution which would be great to have, but my opinion is that it should be based on fcl parser, not compiler's one. And later, IF (whoever does the job) succeeds in making such a good parser (which gets integrated into, for example, Lazarus and proves to be well implemented), only then it is time to think how to connect that parser with compiler's one. At least, that's how I see this situation. > When you turn the parser into a module (for the purposes of usage > downstream, in IDE etc.), what you will have actually done is to make that > 'parser module' replaceable too. > > That alone can be worth its weight in gold, in the sense that from then on, > you can use other 'parser module's --such as, you name it, 'C module', > 'Modula module', 'Java module' etc. etc. > > And, that expands horizons, brings in more talent. > > Which cannot be bad for FPC, can it? It all sounds really nice, doesn't it :-) > > Cheers, > > Adem > > > -- > ___ > Lazarus mailing list > Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org > http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus > -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Possible bug
On Friday 02 July 2010 03:11, Leonardo M. Ramé wrote: > El vie, 02-07-2010 a las 00:25 +0200, Mattias Gaertner escribió: > > On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 17:09:29 -0300 > > "Leonardo M." Ramé wrote: > > > > What gtk version do you use? > > Can you try to find the svn revision that broke it? > > > > > > Mattias > > My libgtk2.0-0 is 2.20.1-0ubuntu2. Is that what do you need?. > > About trying to find which revision broke it, it's a difficult task, I > think it could be easier to try to find and fix the bug, I don't have > any problem in doing this. I don't think that's lazarus regression, but problem which raised with gtk2-2.20 (under Fedora 13 caret even doesn't blink).Some structures have been changed in gtk2 so that problem will become worst with every new gtk2 version if we don't do something in our gtk2 translated code. I cannot reproduce your problem with gtk2-2.12 / 2.18. zeljko -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Parser
On 2010-07-02 09:23, Mattias Gaertner wrote: On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 07:49:25 +0300 Adem wrote [...] Well.. the whole point is to *not* maintain any more than *one* parser --and, that includes current n parsers (I am not sure what the value of 'n' is). That is the target. Means? I still don't understand what do you really want to achieve. Call it some form of perfectionism, if you like. Or 'unionism', for a slightly better term. (reasons below) There are currently several different pascal parsers with different abilities for different purposes. For example the fpc one for compiling, synedit for highlighting, codetools has several for directives, declarations, indentations, fcl has one basic and extendable parser and so forth. Each one has abilities that the others do not have. That's just it: There are simply too many of them neither one is as complete or up-to-date as the original. And, the reason there are too many simply boils down to the fact that the real/genuine/true one wasn't/isn't available. I mean, it's not as if you need a completely different parser for IDE purposes; the fact that you have to write and maintain one is because you have to do it. And, as expected, each one of those baby-parsers are merely partial emulators of the actual one. I am surprised you (plural) don't see this as waste of resources, but instead tell *me* it would be a waste of time to refactor the fpc-code so that its parser can be used (or extended, as the case may be) as a blackbox module downstream in all those projects which shouldn't have had to write parsers. What do you want to use the fpc parser for? It's not 'fpc parser' in the sense that it cannot be used anywhere else; it is a parser that is currently used solely within free-pascal compiler. I would like it to be available to other people too. Isn't this a good enough reason? Do I have to have an ulterior motive? Shall I invent one :) [...] So, could I now ask for some constructive --instead of discouraging-- criticism. The fear of slowing down the compiler and its development without seeing the gain is discouraging. I do sympathize with those fears; but, as you'll agree, worries about speed degradation can only be meaningfully addressed (put to rest) when the actual code is available --no amount of talk or assurances can help/change that. Now, about 'gain': I think you're overlooking medium/long term benefits. When you turn the parser into a module (for the purposes of usage downstream, in IDE etc.), what you will have actually done is to make that 'parser module' replaceable too. That alone can be worth its weight in gold, in the sense that from then on, you can use other 'parser module's --such as, you name it, 'C module', 'Modula module', 'Java module' etc. etc. And, that expands horizons, brings in more talent. Which cannot be bad for FPC, can it? Cheers, Adem -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
