Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages [OT]
On 08/28/2012 09:10 PM, Sven Barth wrote: I don't have any problems with saving attachments in Thunderbird... also I never had them... (using Thunderbird on Windows and Linux) Same here, using Thunderbird on Windows an Linux since many years and always updating to the newest version. (TB14, with multiple attachments in a single message, you need to first click to open the list of attachments, if you want to save them in different locations). -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages [OT]
On 26/08/2012 22:51, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: I'm using Thunderbird 5.0 - anything later is just too buggy for me for various reasons. [...] Hi Graeme, I think you're underestimating Thunderbird ;) yes there was a time when it was buggy as hell, but the latest version (14) hasn't got much to be hated for from my POV. L. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages [OT]
On 28/08/12 10:27, Lukasz Sokol wrote: … it was buggy as hell, but the latest version (14) hasn't got much to be hated for from my POV. I'm having terrible luck with Thunderbird (under Linux) in recent months. It seems v5.0 is no exception. [Admittedly, Thunderbird has given me good service for years] eg: Yesterday, I switch desktop environments just to check something out... a simply logged out of JWM (my default window manager), changed GDM to use Razor (or Cinnamon) as my desktop environment for my next login... I then logged into my account, an ran Thunderbird... Suddenly ALL my last read and last downloaded message in various newsgroup accounts are reset. Everything is marked as unread, and suddenly nothing has been downloaded for offline reading/searching (previous downloaded messages are suddenly lost). I fixed it by downloading all messages again, and marked everything as read. Switch back to JWM, and suddenly the exact same thing happens WTF!! Later versions of Thunderbird didn't allow me to save attachments. I had to double click attachments to open them in whatever program, and then save them using that program. Telling Thunderbird to Save to file didn't raise any errors, but also didn't save anything. :-( It's things like this that drive me to implementing my own applications. I've done this in the past, and it seems an Email/News client will follow shortly. Regards, - Graeme - -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages [OT]
On 28/08/2012 10:48, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: [...] It's things like this that drive me to implementing my own applications. I've done this in the past, and it seems an Email/News client will follow shortly. Regards, - Graeme - OOps. I forgot to mention I only ever used Windows version of T... and never had to play around with default choice of Ubuntu's WM ::J Never Mind. L. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages [OT]
On 28.08.2012 11:48, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: On 28/08/12 10:27, Lukasz Sokol wrote: … it was buggy as hell, but the latest version (14) hasn't got much to be hated for from my POV. I'm having terrible luck with Thunderbird (under Linux) in recent months. It seems v5.0 is no exception. [Admittedly, Thunderbird has given me good service for years] eg: Yesterday, I switch desktop environments just to check something out... a simply logged out of JWM (my default window manager), changed GDM to use Razor (or Cinnamon) as my desktop environment for my next login... I then logged into my account, an ran Thunderbird... Suddenly ALL my last read and last downloaded message in various newsgroup accounts are reset. Everything is marked as unread, and suddenly nothing has been downloaded for offline reading/searching (previous downloaded messages are suddenly lost). I fixed it by downloading all messages again, and marked everything as read. Switch back to JWM, and suddenly the exact same thing happens WTF!! I can't comment on this... I'm normally not switching around window managers ^^ Later versions of Thunderbird didn't allow me to save attachments. I had to double click attachments to open them in whatever program, and then save them using that program. Telling Thunderbird to Save to file didn't raise any errors, but also didn't save anything. :-( I don't have any problems with saving attachments in Thunderbird... also I never had them... (using Thunderbird on Windows and Linux) Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages [OT]
On 28/08/12 20:10, Sven Barth wrote: I can't comment on this... I'm normally not switching around window managers ^^ I was testing full screen app behaviour on various desktop environments and window managers, so when we deploy this app, we don't get any nasty surprises. I don't have any problems with saving attachments in Thunderbird... also I never had them... This is weird, because this issue is now on two totally different machines. One was running Ubuntu 10.04.4 and my current one is running OpenSUSE 12.1 I setup brand new accounts and configured Thunderbird from scratch, so it's not like a rouge config file issue or something. Thunderbird under Windows (which I ran for 2 months recently) I had no problems at all. Next I'll try a Thunderbird from the v3.x days, as I never had problems there. Regards, - Graeme - -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
2012/8/26 Graeme Geldenhuys gra...@geldenhuys.co.uk: To the mailing list admin, What is the policy with regards to HTML messages in this mailing list? I find it very annoying when messages to mailing lists are in HTML - this seems to be the general consensus in most mailing lists. I was under the impression that only plain text message was allowed in this list too. Could you please clarify this. There is no restriction on the mail format for this mailing list. Plain text is desirable, because it can be read by most people and doesn't annoy some people, which means that such messages are read by most people and are the most effective. You may ignore and delete html messages and miss out on something. Vincent P.S. This is my personal opinion. As a list admin I do not have an opinion, I just maintain current policy, which is 'none' on this issue. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 1:24 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys gra...@geldenhuys.co.ukwrote: People that send multi-part HTML messages...just to list a few. ik ido...@gmail.com Juha Manninen juha.mannine...@gmail.com zeljko zel...@holobit.net I am using the default settings of gmail.com browser interface. I didn't realize it is HTML. Now I looked at the settings. There is nothing about HTML! I will change it if I find the setting but maybe it does not exist in this client. I think this is a historical limitation though. HTML does not add so very much data. Many messages have a signature tagline adding as much data, not to mention the extensive useless quoted blocks which you have noticed, too. All modern mail clients can show HTML. It can be a problem with a text based client (pine) of course. Juha -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
On Sunday 26 of August 2012 00:24:43 Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: To the mailing list admin, What is the policy with regards to HTML messages in this mailing list? I find it very annoying when messages to mailing lists are in HTML - this seems to be the general consensus in most mailing lists. I was under the impression that only plain text message was allowed in this list too. Could you please clarify this. People that send multi-part HTML messages...just to list a few. ik ido...@gmail.com Juha Manninen juha.mannine...@gmail.com zeljko zel...@holobit.net Graeme, I'm using kmail with text as default message format. If I ever sent an html formatted mail that's probably reply to someone who already sent html formatted mail. Did you see any thread start from me formatted like html ? zeljko -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
Graeme, I'm using kmail with text as default message format. If I ever sent an html formatted mail that's probably reply to someone who already sent html formatted mail. Did you see any thread start from me formatted like html ? http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/pipermail/lazarus/2012-August/075127.htm l Ludo -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
On Sunday 26 of August 2012 09:52:33 Ludo Brands wrote: Graeme, I'm using kmail with text as default message format. If I ever sent an html formatted mail that's probably reply to someone who already sent html formatted mail. Did you see any thread start from me formatted like html ? http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/pipermail/lazarus/2012-August/075127.ht ml Yes, that could be html since I was @vacations at that time and used webmail (which is setted up to be text only) zeljko -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
On 26/08/12 08:32, Juha Manninen wrote: I am using the default settings of gmail.com browser interface. I didn't realize it is HTML. Now I looked at the settings. There is nothing about HTML! Gmail works slightly different. When you reply to a message you will see the HTML options (Bold, Italics, Underline etc). On the right of those options is the Plain Text option. If you click that, then Gmail switched to plain text message for that one and any other new messages you write. I've used Gmail for years, and I always send plain text message with it. Recently I switched to a decent email client though - Gmail with it's flat conversation view design is very annoying too. Regards, - Graeme - -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
On 26/08/12 09:02, zeljko wrote: Yes, that could be html since I was @vacations at that time and used webmail (which is setted up to be text only) This message you just sent was in reply to a plain text message, yet your message was multi-part HTML. So your email client is definitely setup to send multi-part HTML regardless. http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/pipermail/lazarus/2012-August/075987.html But thanks for being understanding, willing to change it to plain text. I'm sure others would appreciate it too. G. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
On 26/08/12 08:18, Vincent Snijders wrote: There is no restriction on the mail format for this mailing list. OK, thanks for clarifying. From the few replies, it seems the few that are sending multi-part HTML messages simply didn't know they are doing so, or didn't know how to change it. This is good news, as we could easily help them with that. Regards, - Graeme - -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
Martin wrote: On 25/08/2012 23:24, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: To the mailing list admin, What is the policy with regards to HTML messages in this mailing list? I find it very annoying when messages to mailing lists are in HTML - this seems to be the general consensus in most mailing lists. I was under the impression that only plain text message was allowed in this list too. Could you please clarify this. People that send multi-part HTML messages...just to list a few. While I am not the admin, I did a quick search (aprox 17000 msg of the last 18 month): about 2600 or 15% seem to include html. Including mails of many developers, Including some of mine. IMHO that rule should be seen as an ancient relict (so long as mails are at least mixed, and have a plain-text part too). Even mobile phones have the power and cheap and fast enough connectivity to deal with html mail. I'd suggest two exceptions. i) Messages containing any sort of phone home, e.g. an embedded image held on the originator's server, should be frowned upon. ii) Attachments other than alternative representations should be frowned upon. Otherwise we'll start receiving full-size projects, related binaries, and- eventually- unrelated binaries and potential malware. Attachments etc. are fine in a pull medium such as a forum or Mantis. They aren't fine in a push medium where in most cases they're transferred in their entirety to the recipient's systems before he has a chance to decide what's relevant. -- Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues] -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: On 26/08/12 08:32, Juha Manninen wrote: I am using the default settings of gmail.com browser interface. I didn't realize it is HTML. Now I looked at the settings. There is nothing about HTML! Gmail works slightly different. When you reply to a message you will see the HTML options (Bold, Italics, Underline etc). On the right of those options is the Plain Text option. If you click that, then Gmail switched to plain text message for that one and any other new messages you write. I've used Gmail for years, and I always send plain text message with it. Recently I switched to a decent email client though - Gmail with it's flat conversation view design is very annoying too. I admit that I was wondering if you'd changed. I'm seeing far less of the everything jammed onto a single line messages than I used to. -- Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues] -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
Sorry for the long quote, demonstrating what happens when I reply to HTML messages. See my comment at the bottom. zeljko schrieb: On Sunday 26 of August 2012 00:24:43 Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: To the mailing list admin, What is the policy with regards to HTML messages in this mailing list? I find it very annoying when messages to mailing lists are in HTML - this seems to be the general consensus in most mailing lists. I was under the impression that only plain text message was allowed in this list too. Could you please clarify this. People that send multi-part HTML messages...just to list a few. ik ido...@gmail.com Juha Manninen juha.mannine...@gmail.com zeljko zel...@holobit.net Graeme, I'm using kmail with text as default message format. If I ever sent an html formatted mail that's probably reply to someone who already sent html formatted mail. Did you see any thread start from me formatted like html ? As you can see yourself, your reply to Graemes plain-text message is HTML with an useless attachment. While your answer looks nice, the quoted part looks very ugly :-( HTML messages are hard to read for me, because of their unusal font and text size settings. DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
On Sunday 26 of August 2012 12:31:51 Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Sorry for the long quote, demonstrating what happens when I reply to HTML messages. See my comment at the bottom. zeljko schrieb: On Sunday 26 of August 2012 00:24:43 Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: To the mailing list admin, What is the policy with regards to HTML messages in this mailing list? I find it very annoying when messages to mailing lists are in HTML - this seems to be the general consensus in most mailing lists. I was under the impression that only plain text message was allowed in this list too. Could you please clarify this. People that send multi-part HTML messages...just to list a few. ik ido...@gmail.com Juha Manninen juha.mannine...@gmail.com zeljko zel...@holobit.net Graeme, I'm using kmail with text as default message format. If I ever sent an html formatted mail that's probably reply to someone who already sent html formatted mail. Did you see any thread start from me formatted like html ? As you can see yourself, your reply to Graemes plain-text message is HTML with an useless attachment. While your answer looks nice, the quoted part looks very ugly :-( Yes, I've just found an extra setting in kmail which was On I've never enabled it ,so it's from last update or I enabled it by mistake some time ago. zeljko -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
+1 for all your points. + HTML mail is hard to read to me, for its unusual font and text size settings. DoDi Graeme Geldenhuys schrieb: On 26/08/12 00:10, Martin wrote: IMHO that rule should be seen as an ancient relict (so long as mails are * HTML emails add no extra to a conversation. Plain text does the job perfectly. * Multi-part mails just take up more space. Internet bandwidth and disk space. * Even setting your email client (I use Mozilla Thunderbird) to prefer plain text in a multi-part message, the HTML part shows up as an attachment. A huge annoyance for me when I search for important message that had valid (read real) attachments. * Not all HTML message are equal. Mozilla Thunderbird tends to generate ok HTML, but other email clients like Outlook etc create the most hideous and verbose HTML code ever seen! * HTML is plain text obfuscation * Multi-part HTML messages mess with the various mailing list archives. Some try and strip the HTML part, others don't etc. I can go on... G. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
On Sunday 26 of August 2012 12:34:56 Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: +1 for all your points. + HTML mail is hard to read to me, for its unusual font and text size settings. Sorry guys , didn't know that kmail have extra settings and that it sends an extra html text (I don't like html mails too). zeljko -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
On 26/08/12 13:09, zeljko wrote: Sorry guys , didn't know that kmail have extra settings... No problem. Thanks for being accommodating and fixing your mail client settings. Regards, - Graeme - -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
On 26/08/12 11:23, Sven Barth wrote: AFAIK the lazarus lists don't have such a restriction... (I'm not sure though) I believe the Lazarus mailing list has the same attachment size restriction, but they just bumped the size to something like 70 or 100KB limit. I have no problems with 'real' attachments either, for bug report or new dialog design ideas etc. Regards, - Graeme - -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 1:24 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys gra...@geldenhuys.co.uk wrote: People that send multi-part HTML messages...just to list a few. ik ido...@gmail.com I'm using web based email client (gmail) for malling lists, so I do not suffer from the issue, but if most of you believe it should text, I'll do my best to send them like so. Ido -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
On 26/08/12 00:29, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: * Even setting your email client (I use Mozilla Thunderbird) to prefer plain text in a multi-part message, the HTML part shows up as an attachment. A huge annoyance for me when I search for important message that had valid (read real) attachments. I have no argument with your other points, Graeme, but on my Thunderbird setup (10.0.2 on Debian) the only attachments that appear are genuine ones, suggesting that it can be set up to ignore HTML attachments - I've no idea how, though, and I certainly can't recall setting it up that way. Anyway, you will no doubt be aware that I was blissfully ignorant of the number of HTML messages posted, although having now checked my settings it appears that I was one of the guilty. This should no longer be the case :) Malcolm -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
On 26/08/12 22:17, Malcolm Poole wrote: I have no argument with your other points, Graeme, but on my Thunderbird setup (10.0.2 on Debian) the only attachments that appear are genuine I'm using Thunderbird 5.0 - anything later is just too buggy for me for various reasons. Anyway, attached is an example of what I see. I've set Thunderbird to prefer displaying plain text if a multi-part HTML message is found, but I always see the attachment icon and link in the bottom of the message window. it appears that I was one of the guilty. This should no longer be the case :) Yup, your message came through as plain text, thanks. Regards, Graeme. attachment: attachments.png-- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
To the mailing list admin, What is the policy with regards to HTML messages in this mailing list? I find it very annoying when messages to mailing lists are in HTML - this seems to be the general consensus in most mailing lists. I was under the impression that only plain text message was allowed in this list too. Could you please clarify this. People that send multi-part HTML messages...just to list a few. ik ido...@gmail.com Juha Manninen juha.mannine...@gmail.com zeljko zel...@holobit.net Regards, G. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
On 25/08/2012 23:24, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: To the mailing list admin, What is the policy with regards to HTML messages in this mailing list? I find it very annoying when messages to mailing lists are in HTML - this seems to be the general consensus in most mailing lists. I was under the impression that only plain text message was allowed in this list too. Could you please clarify this. People that send multi-part HTML messages...just to list a few. While I am not the admin, I did a quick search (aprox 17000 msg of the last 18 month): about 2600 or 15% seem to include html. Including mails of many developers, Including some of mine. IMHO that rule should be seen as an ancient relict (so long as mails are at least mixed, and have a plain-text part too). Even mobile phones have the power and cheap and fast enough connectivity to deal with html mail. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Policy regarding HTML messages
On 26/08/12 00:10, Martin wrote: IMHO that rule should be seen as an ancient relict (so long as mails are * HTML emails add no extra to a conversation. Plain text does the job perfectly. * Multi-part mails just take up more space. Internet bandwidth and disk space. * Even setting your email client (I use Mozilla Thunderbird) to prefer plain text in a multi-part message, the HTML part shows up as an attachment. A huge annoyance for me when I search for important message that had valid (read real) attachments. * Not all HTML message are equal. Mozilla Thunderbird tends to generate ok HTML, but other email clients like Outlook etc create the most hideous and verbose HTML code ever seen! * HTML is plain text obfuscation * Multi-part HTML messages mess with the various mailing list archives. Some try and strip the HTML part, others don't etc. I can go on... G. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
