[Lazarus] Refactor menu moved
Hi Based on feedback I have moved Refactor menu to a submenu under Source menu. Items will possible be moved between those 2 menus if needed. There is no single right solution with the menus. I anticipate that Refactor menu will get more new items in future than other menus. Regards, Juha -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Refactor Menu
Martin kirjoitti lauantai 05 maaliskuu 2011 16:03:06: > "jedi code format" could be source... Right. These Tool menu items could go there also: Quick Syntax check Guess unclosed block Guess misplaced IFDEF/ENDIF I will look at your other ideas closely later. Moving "Project" menu was maybe a bad idea. Juha -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Refactor Menu
Howard Page-Clark kirjoitti maanantai 07 maaliskuu 2011 00:29:39: > > The trouble is that the Delphi layout is burned into the minds of > > many after 15 years. Deviating too far is unconstructive. > > Point taken. However, Juha is proposing adding a main menu item which > Delphi already has (well, not the XE Starter, but the others) and which > Lazarus currently lacks, i. e. improving compatibility. I didn't only propose it, I actually implemented "Source" and "Refactor" menus in Lazarus trunk. The "Edit" menu now looks very different from your list. I will return to menu changes little later. However I try to be careful not to implement every idea that comes to my or someone else's head. The menu structure is subjective, a matter of opinion, and will never be perfect. I already know there will be opposite opinions about any change proposed. Regards, Juha -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Refactor Menu
Op 2011-03-05 18:26, Howard Page-Clark het geskryf: I often find myself searching for functionality I know is there somewhere ... and miss it several times in the long lists. I find this problem too, especially when new functionality is added to the IDE. I think the IDE needs a menu item that opens a dialog that searches all registered menu items - very similar [if not identical] to the way the "Editor - Key mapping" dialog works. Thus you can type the name of the functionality, and the available menu items in that dialog get filter to leave only the items that match the filter. I think the Delphi XE IDE has something like that too. Pretty clever feature. Regards, - Graeme - -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Refactor Menu
Op 2011-03-05 16:03, Martin het geskryf: "procedure list" imho is more a "view", than a "search" think. No, it's a search. I use "procedure list" to find a specific procedure or method in the current unit. Alternatively, I could have used the standard "find", but "procedure list" is faster... Bottom line, it's a search function. Then again, restructuring the menus wouldn't make much difference to me, because I use keyboard shortcuts for all my most used IDE functionality items anyway. :) Regards, - Graeme - -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Refactor Menu
On 06/3/11 8:40, Marco van de Voort wrote: > On Sat, Mar 05, 2011 at 04:26:14PM +, Howard Page-Clark wrote: >> I'm not wanting to complain, rather to raise the question if now is not >> a good time to take stock of the erratic menu growth and changes over >> the past few years, and as Juha suggests, refactor it constructively. > > The trouble is that the Delphi layout is burned into the minds of many after > 15 years. Deviating too far is unconstructive. > Point taken. However, Juha is proposing adding a main menu item which Delphi already has (well, not the XE Starter, but the others) and which Lazarus currently lacks, i. e. improving compatibility. Also, the subitems in any given menu are often already quite divergent between Delphi and Lazarus. For instance: D 2010 Edit XE Starter Edit Lazarus Edit -- --- --- Undo Undo Undo Redo Redo Redo Format Source--- --- --- Cut Cut Cut Copy Copy Copy PastePaste PasteDelete --- Delete Select All Indent selection Select All --- Unindent selection --- Align to GridEnclose selection... Align to GridBring to Front Comment selection Bring to Front Send to Back Uncomment selection Send to Back Toggle comment Align... Insert $IFDEF Size... Sort selection Scale... --- Tab Order... Uppercase selection Create Order... Lowercase selection Flip Children > Tabs to spaces in selection Lock Controls Break lines in selection --- Select > --- Insert from Character Map Insert text > --- Complete code Extract procedure After 'Paste' there is no correspondence that is in any way helpful if you've memorised Delphi's menu order. So surely if reordering items (or moving them to another menu, or renaming them) can be shown to be a widely welcomed improvement, I see no reason to refuse consideration simply because Delphi's menu differs. It's never been identical, and with the superiority of quite a bit of Lazarus' functionality, I think a well-considered Lazarus menu structure that takes account of logicality, cross-platform considerations and internationalisation issues could show Delphi the way, since Lazarus is not constrained by a Windows-only history. Though I agree that gratuitous departure from the Delphi pattern for its own sake is pointless. H -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Refactor Menu
On Sat, Mar 05, 2011 at 04:26:14PM +, Howard Page-Clark wrote: > I'm not wanting to complain, rather to raise the question if now is not > a good time to take stock of the erratic menu growth and changes over > the past few years, and as Juha suggests, refactor it constructively. The trouble is that the Delphi layout is burned into the minds of many after 15 years. Deviating too far is unconstructive. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Refactor Menu
On 05/3/11 11:19, Juha Manninen wrote: I have refactored Lazarus main menu ... More ideas? A further consideration is how to make locating seldom-used functionality accessible easily via the present menu system, without resorting to space-wasting GUI elements such as a Ribbon. Edit, Search and Run all have 20 or more items, of which several have subitems. I often find myself searching for functionality I know is there somewhere ... and miss it several times in the long lists. Is there scope for arranging some items alphabetically, or at least having a fundamental rethink about the order and design of the menus and their subitem lists as they have grown to the present state, so that a menu design can be refined and agreed that will hold for a considerable period up to and beyond a 1.0 release, and be a well-thought-through standard that does not keep changing (familiarity with a stable and logically arranged menu structure saves a lot of frustration), even as new functionality is added. For instance the Search menu has four separator lines (supposedly grouping related functionality together?) Yet 'Goto line' is at the top of the second section, and 'Goto include directive' is in the middle of the fourth section. And if you add the jumptoimplementation package its menu item gets tagged on at the end; and none of the four separated sections has items that are ordered alphabetically (at least in the English IDE). I'm not wanting to complain, rather to raise the question if now is not a good time to take stock of the erratic menu growth and changes over the past few years, and as Juha suggests, refactor it constructively. Howard -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Refactor Menu
On 05.03.2011 15:11, Martin wrote: On 05/03/2011 10:31, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Juha Manninen schrieb: I have refactored Lazarus main menu by adding a Refactor menu. :-) I also added a Source menu. Eclipse and some other IDEs have done the same thing. Maybe a "Debug" menu should be added. Currently you have some entries in "run" (like add breakpoint); and others in "view/debug window" (which people in the past have already failed to find) Also "Enviroment" is almost empty. Maybe it could be merged into "tools" (lot's of apps that I know, have the "option" entry either in "tools" or in "edit" menu) And some apps change that depending on the OS they run on... example: Firefox. And yes, that is very annoying. I personally prefer the "Tools" variant. Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Refactor Menu
On 05/03/2011 11:19, Juha Manninen wrote: Hi I have refactored Lazarus main menu by adding a Refactor menu. :-) I also added a Source menu. Eclipse and some other IDEs have done the same thing. Depending on packages installed, there is in "view": " ide internals" in "Tools": "explore ide menu" IMHO they belong together? -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Refactor Menu
On 05/03/2011 10:31, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Juha Manninen schrieb: I have refactored Lazarus main menu by adding a Refactor menu. :-) I also added a Source menu. Eclipse and some other IDEs have done the same thing. Maybe a "Debug" menu should be added. Currently you have some entries in "run" (like add breakpoint); and others in "view/debug window" (which people in the past have already failed to find) Also "Enviroment" is almost empty. Maybe it could be merged into "tools" (lot's of apps that I know, have the "option" entry either in "tools" or in "edit" menu) Martin -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Refactor Menu
Having a "search" menu: "view search results" should go in there, and not in the "view" menu... - maybe "jump history" too, not surre? "procedure list" imho is more a "view", than a "search" think. "uper/lowercase slection" "tabs to spaces". that applies to any text, not only source, so it should go to the "edit" menu - imho "sort selection" too, and maybe "break lines in selection" unless it has special source related behaviour... - "same for "insert from char map"; - probably "insert CVS (well cvs is a hard to place one...), insert general has lots of none source specific... maybe move "view todo list" to "source", instead of "view" ? tools "make resource string" should be refactor ? "jedi code format" could be source... On 05/03/2011 11:19, Juha Manninen wrote: Hi I have refactored Lazarus main menu by adding a Refactor menu. :-) I also added a Source menu. Eclipse and some other IDEs have done the same thing. Sometimes it is difficult to decide under which menu a menu item belongs. "Enclose Selection ..." is now under Refactor menu. It could be under Source menu together with "Comment Selection ...", too. Later the editor local menu will have Source menu, and some checks will be added to disable the entries when they can't be used. More ideas? Regards, Juha -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Refactor Menu
On Sat, 5 Mar 2011, Alexander Klenin wrote: On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 20:31, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Juha Manninen schrieb: I have refactored Lazarus main menu by adding a Refactor menu. :-) I also added a Source menu. Eclipse and some other IDEs have done the same thing. Should we start adding Themes to the IDE, i.e. configurable menus? Then it can be made look (and feel) like whatever IDE people are used to. Honestly, I do not think so. There is a threshold where "configurable" crosses into "amorphous blob", and I think this is dangerously close ;-) Lazarus IDE should feel (and look) like Lazarus. I agree. I also don't think you need to bother with that. It's much more important to add really useful features. Better code libraries (header translations), other refactorings. Lazarus works well, I know where everything is located, I assume most people that work with it also know it. The ability to change this adds little to no value to the IDE. Michael. -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Refactor Menu
On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 20:31, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: > Juha Manninen schrieb: > >> I have refactored Lazarus main menu by adding a Refactor menu. :-) >> >> I also added a Source menu. >> Eclipse and some other IDEs have done the same thing. > > Should we start adding Themes to the IDE, i.e. configurable menus? > Then it can be made look (and feel) like whatever IDE people are used to. Honestly, I do not think so. There is a threshold where "configurable" crosses into "amorphous blob", and I think this is dangerously close ;-) Lazarus IDE should feel (and look) like Lazarus. -- Alexander S. Klenin -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Refactor Menu
Juha Manninen schrieb: I have refactored Lazarus main menu by adding a Refactor menu. :-) I also added a Source menu. Eclipse and some other IDEs have done the same thing. Should we start adding Themes to the IDE, i.e. configurable menus? Then it can be made look (and feel) like whatever IDE people are used to. Sometimes it is difficult to decide under which menu a menu item belongs. "Enclose Selection ..." is now under Refactor menu. It could be under Source menu together with "Comment Selection ...", too. Sic! DoDi -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] Refactor Menu
Hi I have refactored Lazarus main menu by adding a Refactor menu. :-) I also added a Source menu. Eclipse and some other IDEs have done the same thing. Sometimes it is difficult to decide under which menu a menu item belongs. "Enclose Selection ..." is now under Refactor menu. It could be under Source menu together with "Comment Selection ...", too. Later the editor local menu will have Source menu, and some checks will be added to disable the entries when they can't be used. More ideas? Regards, Juha -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
