Re: [lazarus] Re: Lazarus File bigger then Delphi File?
On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 04:04:04PM -0300, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: Won't solve anything. LCL is too big. There are too many features, and thus pascal units to be linked to get lcl working, so any LCL widgetset will generate big executables. What would help is really powerful smartlinking (being able to rip unused methods inside a unit for example). I tried this once, but don't expect this to be more than 10%. The resulting binary was not even working, so probably too much was cut. or simply use KOL (http://xcl.cjb.net) for WinCE ? Now this would make software smaller. But then you loose the cross-platform hability, the form designer and LCL component repository. Size should not be the discussion. If LCL is overkill, so be it, but then first formulate the requirements, and then start matching alternatives. I've some doubts about using Lazarus on very small displays anyway due to screen real estate issues. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Re: Lazarus File bigger then Delphi File?
roozbeh gholizadeh wrote: On Wed, 10 May 2006 17:33:02 +0330, Jonas A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: let me ask you a few questions: are you still using 1.44 floppies? are you sending compiled execs 20 times a day via 56k modem connection? no? then why 1 or 2 mb bigger is so bad for you? Well apparently this is not a good reason! In wince my exe files with lazarus is about 14mg and after strip about 3-4mg,i dont think for a device with 12mg or 16mg memory,and at best 20mg storage room a 4-5mg exe is good! So yes in this case we are using 1.44 floppies and yes we are sending compile exes with less than 56kb modem to phone devices so 1-2mg bigger is not bad,it is worst! Maybe create KOL based widgetset for Lazarus or simply use KOL (http://xcl.cjb.net) for WinCE ? I have quite complicated message application with sqlite storage all in about 297 Kb EXE without compression under Windows XP. Perfect for Windows CE and other devices. Unfortunately it's only for WinAPI but compiles fine using FPC. Regards Boguslaw Brandys _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Re: Lazarus File bigger then Delphi File?
On 5/17/06, Bogusław Brandys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe create KOL based widgetset for Lazarus Won't solve anything. LCL is too big. There are too many features, and thus pascal units to be linked to get lcl working, so any LCL widgetset will generate big executables. What would help is really powerful smartlinking (being able to rip unused methods inside a unit for example). LCL adds some things, like being able to load a form from XML. This requires a parser, and parsers are big, so this adds size to software. The final size is a big sum of all the features. A powerful smartlinking would kill all unecessary stuff. or simply use KOL (http://xcl.cjb.net) for WinCE ? Now this would make software smaller. But then you loose the cross-platform hability, the form designer and LCL component repository. thanks, -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Re: Lazarus File bigger then Delphi File?
On Wed, 17 May 2006 16:04:04 -0300 Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/17/06, Bogus__aw Brandys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe create KOL based widgetset for Lazarus Won't solve anything. LCL is too big. There are too many features, and thus pascal units to be linked to get lcl working, so any LCL widgetset will generate big executables. Ehm. The widgetsets are in no way optimized for smartlinking. I guess, by optimizing a few things we can easily reduce the size by half. What would help is really powerful smartlinking (being able to rip unused methods inside a unit for example). Won't help. For example at the moment the gtk callbacks use case statements with all kind of controls. This must be improved. LCL adds some things, like being able to load a form from XML. This requires a parser, and parsers are big, so this adds size to software. True. But this makes less than 5% of the code. The final size is a big sum of all the features. A powerful smartlinking would kill all unecessary stuff. or simply use KOL (http://xcl.cjb.net) for WinCE ? Now this would make software smaller. But then you loose the cross-platform hability, the form designer and LCL component repository. Mattias _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Re: Lazarus File bigger then Delphi File?
Mattias Gaertner wrote: Won't help. For example at the moment the gtk callbacks use case statements with all kind of controls. This must be improved. LCL adds some things, like being able to load a form from XML. This requires a parser, and parsers are big, so this adds size to software. True. But this makes less than 5% of the code. The final size is a big sum of all the features. A powerful smartlinking would kill all unecessary stuff. I know this isn't what everyone is really wanting to hear when they're discussing this, but I'll add my $.02 USD into the discussion more from an esoteric corporate view than a lazarus coding view. I wrote TruckBytes using Lazarus. It's a full featured graphically pleasing database application designed to run a trucking company. The total download is around 2 MB compressed, including the SSL libraries I redistribute. An equivalent program written using Visual C++ in a Microsoft environment would never see the light of day for less than 20 MB. The database engine alone would probably be 3/4 of the total distributed program. If done in VB, the runtimes for VB alone would be large. Sure you could force your users to download it separately, but if you want to reduce customer support issues you distribute everything you need. Back to TruckBytes. The EXE is around 3.9 MB all said and done, plus supporting SSL dll's for the Windows version. I have 200 GB of hard disk space. I have 2 GB of RAM. I have 3 Mb download speed. If I was a nut about trying to reduce EXE size I'd use a macro assembler and a 6502 processor (yes, I've done that before.) Bloat used to be an issue in code when the code was pushing the limits of what the computers could handle. Sure you can talk about bloat like it's still a horrible problem, but when it comes down to it the question is do I want to waste 4 months or more of development to reduce code size or use some preconfigured lego blocks that produce a larger EXE? I'll go for the 4 months of man-hours saved. Of course that's a corporate view and really holds no bearing on the discussion of how to reduce the LCL size, I just want to point out that 1 MB exe versus 4 MB exe really doesn't make a darn bit of difference unless your computer was built in the mid 90's. Or you're simply writing a console app, in which case you shouldn't use the LCL anyway. Keep in mind I'm not saying use this to justify NOT optimizing the LCL or smartlinking. I'm just saying weigh the time spent coding where it's best utilized, for instance GTK2, QT, OSX, better compatibility or bug squishing. The above statement's obviously don't apply if you're writing for PocketPC / Windows Mobile. -Tony _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Re: Lazarus File bigger then Delphi File?
What would help is really powerful smartlinking (being able to rip unused methods inside a unit for example). Theres no such thing, that is what smartlinking is - KOL is designed around this but many people hate KOL because it uses old Objects and requires a bit of thinking - and most people could care less about Exe size - I happen to care a bit, because the first impression of the user is always important - I'm not anal about using KOL for every app, but I use it lots.. it's fun to have a challenge to write a KOL app instead of it being so easy too - but I'm crazy - only crazy people use KOL. Boguslaw is crazy too and so is Thaddy. Don't use KOL unless you are crazy and like being crazy :-) _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
[lazarus] Re: Lazarus File bigger then Delphi File?
On Wed, 10 May 2006 17:33:02 +0330, Jonas A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: let me ask you a few questions: are you still using 1.44 floppies? are you sending compiled execs 20 times a day via 56k modem connection? no? then why 1 or 2 mb bigger is so bad for you? Well apparently this is not a good reason! In wince my exe files with lazarus is about 14mg and after strip about 3-4mg,i dont think for a device with 12mg or 16mg memory,and at best 20mg storage room a 4-5mg exe is good! So yes in this case we are using 1.44 floppies and yes we are sending compile exes with less than 56kb modem to phone devices so 1-2mg bigger is not bad,it is worst! -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
