Re: [Ldsoss] Re: Ldsoss Digest, Vol 39, Issue 5
On 4/5/07, Thomas Haws <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am sorry to hear (unless it was solely original research and
unattributable) that the problem has been solved by deletion.
Most of what was there before was original research that I could tell
- there were very few citations to backup the claims. I had clarified
the Mormon section before it all got deleted to try and point out both
sides of the story, supported by well backed citations, so I at least
did my part. I've suggested in the discussion that research be
provided to show examples of claims where other religions have been
claimed to be "Arian-like" in their beliefs, along with counter
examples of why those religions are not indeed Arianistic per the
definitions presented. I think it could be done, with proper
citations and backup, and so long as the full story was presented.
Jesse
--
#!/usr/bin/perl
$^=q;@!>~|{>krw>yn{u<$$ 0gFzD gD, 00Fz,
0,,( 0hF 0g)F/=, 0> "L$/GEIFewe{,$/ 0C$~> "@=,m,|,(e 0.), 01,pnn,y{
rw} >;,$0=q,$,,($_=$^)=~y,$/ C-~><@=\n\r,-~$:-u/
#y,d,s,(\$.),$1,gee,print
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Re: [Ldsoss] Re: Ldsoss Digest, Vol 39, Issue 5
the poster of that section has removed the list of religions I think that is much more NPOV and leaves it up to the reader to decide who that is. This hurts to read. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and aspires to present all human "knowledge". Less is not more at Wikipedia, and the Wikipedia policy documents make it clear that bias avoidance is most often achieved by taking pains to *include* all relevant points of view. So, subject to the [[WP:NOR]] No Original Research rule, the article would be deemed by the Wikipedia community to be improved by *including* more documented, attributed opinions of experts. I am sorry to hear (unless it was solely original research and unattributable) that the problem has been solved by deletion. The most appropriate place to get the assistance of Latter-day Saints about specific Wikipedia articles would be at this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Latter_Day_Saint_movement Click on Edit and leave a request for help. -- Tom Haws Have a beautiful day. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
Re: [Ldsoss] Re: Ldsoss Digest, Vol 39, Issue 5
On 4/5/07, Sean M. Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
It looks to me like the comparison between the teachings of our church
and the teachings of Arius is rather easy to make and they rather
explicitly made it. We differ in some rather significant respects, but
that doesn't negate the reality that there are similarities.
Nevertheless it didn't seem to matter whether or not there was a
tangible connection. The point of the listing was that people perceived
a connection and they used the term "Arian" derisively to describe us. I
think it's a shame that we should launch a jihad on a non-issue such as
this. It just makes us look paranoid, simple, and/or desperate for
attention. There is so much of real anti-mormon activity.
--
Anti-mormon or not, it was disinformation about us and very POV
(point-of-view). Regardless, the poster of that section has removed
the list of religions and just left that "some religions are still
considered by others to be Arianistic". I think that is much more
NPOV and leaves it up to the reader to decide who that is.
Jesse
#!/usr/bin/perl
$^=q;@!>~|{>krw>yn{u<$$ 0gFzD gD, 00Fz,
0,,( 0hF 0g)F/=, 0> "L$/GEIFewe{,$/ 0C$~> "@=,m,|,(e 0.), 01,pnn,y{
rw} >;,$0=q,$,,($_=$^)=~y,$/ C-~><@=\n\r,-~$:-u/
#y,d,s,(\$.),$1,gee,print
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[Ldsoss] Re: Ldsoss Digest, Vol 39, Issue 5
It looks to me like the comparison between the teachings of our church and the teachings of Arius is rather easy to make and they rather explicitly made it. We differ in some rather significant respects, but that doesn't negate the reality that there are similarities. Nevertheless it didn't seem to matter whether or not there was a tangible connection. The point of the listing was that people perceived a connection and they used the term "Arian" derisively to describe us. I think it's a shame that we should launch a jihad on a non-issue such as this. It just makes us look paranoid, simple, and/or desperate for attention. There is so much of real anti-mormon activity. "Mormons, followers of the various churches of the Latter Day Saint movement, who believe in the unity in purpose of the Godhead but that Jesus is a divine being distinct from, and created by, God the Father, but similar in every other respect (thus roughly Homoiousian rather than Anomoean). Thus, Jesus is literally (physically, by God placing his own seed within Mary, thus making Jusus both mortal and divinity) the Firstborn of the Father. Also in line with Arianism, Mormons believe that the pre-incarnate Jesus (the Logos of John 1) created the Earth under the direction of the Father. In fact, they go further than most on this point, equating the pre-existent Jesus with Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament (perhaps as a spokesman for the Father, for whom they reserve the Old Testament title Elohim). Although the LDS Church views the doctrinal schisms of the late Roman Empire as a sure sign of the Great Apostasy, they do not officially claim any allegiance to Arius." Looks right to me. That's pretty correct, but it doesn't support how we can be compared to the teachings of Arius. I do not think we believe Christ is subordinate to the Father, but One with the Father, as all other Christian faiths believe (minus the 1 being and Spirit thing). We also do not believe that at one time Jesus did not exist. We were intelligences forever, and all have existed forever. I think if you were to study what Arius actually taught you would see he wasn't necessarily teaching this thing either. Arius taught that Christ was created out of nothing, not begotten, and he taught against the doctrine of eternity. He also taught that Christ was not of the same substance as the father (Hence the entire reason for the Nicene Creed). We believe that Christ, born with a body, was of the same substance of the Father. The thing is, with so many things lost in the Christian religions, the secular view of Arius is much different than ours, so we can easily get pegged in the category that follow his teachings. I don't think we really want to be in that category though, as Arius, I think even among Mormons, would be a heretic. ___ Ldsoss mailing list Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
