Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[Ted Hess]

-Original Message- 
From: Weedy

Sent: Monday, November 07, 2016 3:03 PM
To: Rafał Miłecki
Cc: LEDE Development List
Subject: Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 3:24 PM, Rafał Miłecki <zaj...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm looking for a new notebook, but I can't find anything with i7 quad
core + AMD GPU. I may need to buy something with i7-6500U or i7-7500U
which may be too slow for compiling LEDE.



Dell Precisions they will compile for days and never overheat. You can
get AMD or Nvidia GPUs


+1 for Dell Precision laptops - My M4300 (retired) and more recently my M4800 are quite fast for doing full builds. M4800 
w/Quad-core i7 4910MQ @2.9GHz;3.9Ghz turbo + nVidia K1100M / Intel HD graphics w/ 16GB RAM and 2x500G SSD (Raid 1). I think the 
newest series is Precision 15.


/ted


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Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[Weedy]

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 3:24 PM, Rafał Miłecki  wrote:
> I'm looking for a new notebook, but I can't find anything with i7 quad
> core + AMD GPU. I may need to buy something with i7-6500U or i7-7500U
> which may be too slow for compiling LEDE.


Dell Precisions they will compile for days and never overheat. You can
get AMD or Nvidia GPUs

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[Tino Reichardt]

* Tino Reichardt  wrote:
> * Rafał Miłecki  wrote:
> > Hey,
> > 
> > So far I was always using my notebook for the development. My
> > requirements were Intel i7 quad core + AMD GPU. I was using some
> > Samsung but it's GPU has died and I can't replace it (stupid
> > 216-0811000 chipset).
> > 
> > I'm looking for a new notebook, but I can't find anything with i7 quad
> > core + AMD GPU. I may need to buy something with i7-6500U or i7-7500U
> > which may be too slow for compiling LEDE.

Hui, I just see you wanted to have an AMD GPU...
What about an "Ati Radeon HD 7700M (1GB)" ?

This one has i7-3720QM, 16GB RAM, ...
http://www.lapstore.de/a.php/shop/lapstore/lang/x/a/22741/kw/Dell-Precision-M4700
also about 750€


-- 
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Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[Tino Reichardt]

* Rafał Miłecki  wrote:
> Hey,
> 
> So far I was always using my notebook for the development. My
> requirements were Intel i7 quad core + AMD GPU. I was using some
> Samsung but it's GPU has died and I can't replace it (stupid
> 216-0811000 chipset).
> 
> I'm looking for a new notebook, but I can't find anything with i7 quad
> core + AMD GPU. I may need to buy something with i7-6500U or i7-7500U
> which may be too slow for compiling LEDE.

I like the 2 Years old "used" laptops, selled by lapstore... maybe this
one would fit your needs, for "small" money:
http://www.lapstore.de/a.php/shop/lapstore/lang/x/a/20124/kw/Lenovo-ThinkPad-W530-2447-GW3-2463-A24

Intel Core i7-3720QM (4x 2,6 GHz / 8 MB Cache / 45W TDP)
16GB RAM (4x 4GB, max possible is 32GB)
15,6" TFT LED Display with ThinkLight for working in the dark ;)
1920 x 1080 Pixel (FHD)
1x 180GB SSD in it (space for 2x 2,5" HDD)
8xDVD+/-RW Dual Double Layer
Intel HD4000 CPU graphics, for progging
NVIDIA Quadro K1000M (2048 MB), for other things (linux driver works very well)
(incl. Windows 7 Prof. license)
= 750€

> How do you develop LEDE? Do you work on some powerful machine, or do
> you compile it remotely somehow? If you do it remotely, do you mount
> remote filesystem? I need a very good access to the build_dir for my
> needs.

I am using an Dell Latitude with i7-3632QM (4C/8T), make -j6 V=s works
fine... and the Samsung SSD with 1TB is fast + big... backup is done
every X weeks to a local Server via rsync.


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Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[Bas Mevissen]

On 06/11/16 21:24, Rafał Miłecki wrote:


How do you develop LEDE? Do you work on some powerful machine, or do
you compile it remotely somehow? If you do it remotely, do you mount
remote filesystem? I need a very good access to the build_dir for my
needs.



I' using a Centos 7 installed virtual private server with SSD storage. 
I'm using a Mate desktop on it, which I access with X2Go over the 
internet. Files with sshfs most of the time. Nightly backup of most 
important files to my NAS at home. I'm using a hosted Git repository to 
share my work with my customer.


This all works really well. Even the compile performance is very high.

Cheers,

--
Bas.

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[David Woodhouse]

On Mon, 2016-11-07 at 01:58 -0800, Russell Senior wrote:
> > > > > > "Rafał" == Rafał Miłecki  writes:
> 
> Rafał> On 7 November 2016 at 00:40, Russell Senior 
>  wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > I have a 16-core build box which I connect to over ssh.  I use scp to
> > > move images to devices.  I have a testbed with ethernet connections
> > > to the build box and serial consoles on most if not all of them.
> 
> Rafał> But what about development with modifying files in build_dir?
> Rafał> That's the most tricky part for me.
> 
> I ssh into the build machine and use whatever my favorite editor of the
> moment is (vi or emancs) and modify files.  I don't understand the
> problem.
> 
> I've even been known to load emacs with X11 over a dialup connection
> with ssh X forwarding (20 years ago).  It took a while to start up, but
> was generally pretty responsive once started.  In an environment with
> flakey network, that could be painful.  GNU screen and
> persistent/reconnectable screen sessions on the build machine can help
> smooth things out.

This is what tramp-mode is for.

emacs /buildhost:/home/dwmw2/git/lede/...

-- 
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Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[Rafał Miłecki]

On 7 November 2016 at 10:58, Russell Senior  wrote:
>> "Rafał" == Rafał Miłecki  writes:
>
> Rafał> On 7 November 2016 at 00:40, Russell Senior 
>  wrote:
>>> I have a 16-core build box which I connect to over ssh.  I use scp to
>>> move images to devices.  I have a testbed with ethernet connections
>>> to the build box and serial consoles on most if not all of them.
>
> Rafał> But what about development with modifying files in build_dir?
> Rafał> That's the most tricky part for me.
>
> I ssh into the build machine and use whatever my favorite editor of the
> moment is (vi or emancs) and modify files.  I don't understand the
> problem.

I'm just not geeky enough to use vi/emacs, anyway, thanks for answer.

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[Yousong Zhou]

On 7 November 2016 at 04:24, Rafał Miłecki  wrote:
> Hey,
>
> So far I was always using my notebook for the development. My
> requirements were Intel i7 quad core + AMD GPU. I was using some
> Samsung but it's GPU has died and I can't replace it (stupid
> 216-0811000 chipset).
>
> I'm looking for a new notebook, but I can't find anything with i7 quad
> core + AMD GPU. I may need to buy something with i7-6500U or i7-7500U
> which may be too slow for compiling LEDE.
>
> How do you develop LEDE? Do you work on some powerful machine, or do
> you compile it remotely somehow? If you do it remotely, do you mount
> remote filesystem? I need a very good access to the build_dir for my
> needs.
>

Most of my development work happens on remote kvm machines with ssh
and tmux.  The best thing about this is that there is no heat and
noise from fans spining mad.

Since most changes are device agnostic, I use qemu vm to do run-test
[1].  It's quite handy and I do not often need to touch actual
hardware these days...

I use sshfs to transfer files to local machines, only occasionally
when the work has to be done on real devices.  I prefer sshfs for the
same reason as for pppossh: it's already there and no extra work to
configure each remote host.

 [1] https://gist.github.com/yousong/8d94c6823a2a6f0f79fd

yousong

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[Russell Senior]

> "Rafał" == Rafał Miłecki  writes:

Rafał> On 7 November 2016 at 00:40, Russell Senior  
wrote:
>> I have a 16-core build box which I connect to over ssh.  I use scp to
>> move images to devices.  I have a testbed with ethernet connections
>> to the build box and serial consoles on most if not all of them.

Rafał> But what about development with modifying files in build_dir?
Rafał> That's the most tricky part for me.

I ssh into the build machine and use whatever my favorite editor of the
moment is (vi or emancs) and modify files.  I don't understand the
problem.

I've even been known to load emacs with X11 over a dialup connection
with ssh X forwarding (20 years ago).  It took a while to start up, but
was generally pretty responsive once started.  In an environment with
flakey network, that could be painful.  GNU screen and
persistent/reconnectable screen sessions on the build machine can help
smooth things out.


-- 
Russell Senior, President
russ...@personaltelco.net

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[Baptiste Jonglez]

On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 09:51:31AM +0100, Rafał Miłecki wrote:
> >> But what about development with modifying files in build_dir? That's
> >> the most tricky part for me.
> >
> > What do you mean exactly?
> 
> Like working with quilt to modify software (kernel/packages) in the build_dir.

I see, I think I would do that directly on the server then.

> > I use the GCC compile farm to develop/compile, since the hardware there is
> > much faster than my laptop (and has more disk space).  I generally mount
> > the remote server locally using sshfs to get access to the generated
> > images and packages.  When I need to edit things in the development tree,
> > I do it directly on the server.
> 
> It sounds like sshfs being too slow for you? That's what bothers me. I
> think I'll just need to experiment with nfs and sshfs a bit and see if
> that will be fast enough for me or not.

It's not so much a matter of sshfs being slow than being unreliable.  If
you (or the server) lose network connectivity or change IP address while
you're working over sshfs, it's a bit inconvenient.  Sshfs uses fuse, so
initially it will just block I/O if the server is not reachable.  But if
the issue lasts for too long, from my experience the mountpoint will
either block I/O forever, return I/O errors or get unmounted.

Of course, on a local network, you're less likely to encounter issues.

Baptiste


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Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[Baptiste Jonglez]

On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 06:23:49AM +0100, Rafał Miłecki wrote:
> On 7 November 2016 at 00:40, Russell Senior  wrote:
> > I have a 16-core build box which I connect to over ssh.  I use scp to
> > move images to devices.  I have a testbed with ethernet connections to
> > the build box and serial consoles on most if not all of them.
> 
> But what about development with modifying files in build_dir? That's
> the most tricky part for me.

What do you mean exactly?

I use the GCC compile farm to develop/compile, since the hardware there is
much faster than my laptop (and has more disk space).  I generally mount
the remote server locally using sshfs to get access to the generated
images and packages.  When I need to edit things in the development tree,
I do it directly on the server.


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Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[Rafał Miłecki]

On 7 November 2016 at 02:18, Alberto Bursi  wrote:
> On 11/06/2016 09:24 PM, Rafał Miłecki wrote:
>> So far I was always using my notebook for the development. My
>> requirements were Intel i7 quad core + AMD GPU. I was using some
>> Samsung but it's GPU has died and I can't replace it (stupid
>> 216-0811000 chipset).
>>
>> I'm looking for a new notebook, but I can't find anything with i7 quad
>> core + AMD GPU. I may need to buy something with i7-6500U or i7-7500U
>> which may be too slow for compiling LEDE.
>>
>> How do you develop LEDE? Do you work on some powerful machine, or do
>> you compile it remotely somehow? If you do it remotely, do you mount
>> remote filesystem? I need a very good access to the build_dir for my
>> needs.
>>
>
> Might I ask why you need a dedicated GPU for in a development machine?
> You want to game on it too?
>
> Current Intel iGPUs are fine on linux as long as you don't want to play
> games (on windows they are better and allow light gaming).

Yes, after working for a year and half with acceleration disabled on
my Samsung (due to GPU lockups of broken chip) I wanted to start some
game finally ;)


> Also, in all modern laptops the NVIDIA gpu is not physically connected
> to outputs and is only used for 3D rendering, so you can keep it
> disabled without ill effects as the Intel iGPU is the one actually
> running everything in the hardware.
>
> In any case, i'd recommend to look at laptop assembler companies like
> pcspecialist.co.uk (for europe) as they usually offer some laptops with
> a quadcore i7 without a dedicated GPU, and have better features overall
> like fullHD screens and IPS screens, better batteries, you can choose to
> not install/pay for Windows and so on.
>
> If I had to compile LEDE remotely (I use a Xeon processor that is
> slightly better than a ivy bridge i7 so I don't really need that), I
> would keep the sources on remote filesystem on the server, probably nfs
> as it is the one with best performance, and  keep a SSH open to the
> server so I can ask a recompilation.
> It should not be noticeably different than doing things locally as long
> as you are connected through gigabit ethernet cable and don't do unusual
> things for development like moving multiple gigabytes of files around in
> the network folder.

Thanks, I'll give NFS a try to see how well it works for working in build_dir!

-- 
Rafał

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[Rafał Miłecki]

On 7 November 2016 at 00:40, Russell Senior  wrote:
> I have a 16-core build box which I connect to over ssh.  I use scp to
> move images to devices.  I have a testbed with ethernet connections to
> the build box and serial consoles on most if not all of them.

But what about development with modifying files in build_dir? That's
the most tricky part for me.

-- 
Rafał

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[Alberto Bursi]

On 11/06/2016 09:24 PM, Rafał Miłecki wrote:
> Hey,
>
> So far I was always using my notebook for the development. My
> requirements were Intel i7 quad core + AMD GPU. I was using some
> Samsung but it's GPU has died and I can't replace it (stupid
> 216-0811000 chipset).
>
> I'm looking for a new notebook, but I can't find anything with i7 quad
> core + AMD GPU. I may need to buy something with i7-6500U or i7-7500U
> which may be too slow for compiling LEDE.
>
> How do you develop LEDE? Do you work on some powerful machine, or do
> you compile it remotely somehow? If you do it remotely, do you mount
> remote filesystem? I need a very good access to the build_dir for my
> needs.
>

Might I ask why you need a dedicated GPU for in a development machine?
You want to game on it too?

Current Intel iGPUs are fine on linux as long as you don't want to play 
games (on windows they are better and allow light gaming).

Also, in all modern laptops the NVIDIA gpu is not physically connected 
to outputs and is only used for 3D rendering, so you can keep it 
disabled without ill effects as the Intel iGPU is the one actually 
running everything in the hardware.

In any case, i'd recommend to look at laptop assembler companies like 
pcspecialist.co.uk (for europe) as they usually offer some laptops with 
a quadcore i7 without a dedicated GPU, and have better features overall 
like fullHD screens and IPS screens, better batteries, you can choose to 
not install/pay for Windows and so on.

If I had to compile LEDE remotely (I use a Xeon processor that is 
slightly better than a ivy bridge i7 so I don't really need that), I 
would keep the sources on remote filesystem on the server, probably nfs 
as it is the one with best performance, and  keep a SSH open to the 
server so I can ask a recompilation.
It should not be noticeably different than doing things locally as long 
as you are connected through gigabit ethernet cable and don't do unusual 
things for development like moving multiple gigabytes of files around in 
the network folder.

-Alberto
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Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[Piotr Maksymiuk]

I compile on a NUC 6i5, works relatively well. My main machine is a macbook pro 
i7 though (and even though the specs match, none of them are particularly Linux 
friendly)

> On 7 Nov 2016, at 00:40, Russell Senior  wrote:
> 
>> "Rafał" == Rafał Miłecki  writes:
> 
> Rafał> Hey, So far I was always using my notebook for the
> Rafał> development. My requirements were Intel i7 quad core + AMD GPU. I
> Rafał> was using some Samsung but it's GPU has died and I can't replace
> Rafał> it (stupid 216-0811000 chipset).
> 
> Rafał> I'm looking for a new notebook, but I can't find anything with i7
> Rafał> quad core + AMD GPU. I may need to buy something with i7-6500U or
> Rafał> i7-7500U which may be too slow for compiling LEDE.
> 
> Rafał> How do you develop LEDE? Do you work on some powerful machine, or
> Rafał> do you compile it remotely somehow? If you do it remotely, do you
> Rafał> mount remote filesystem? I need a very good access to the
> Rafał> build_dir for my needs.
> 
> I have a 16-core build box which I connect to over ssh.  I use scp to
> move images to devices.  I have a testbed with ethernet connections to
> the build box and serial consoles on most if not all of them.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Russell Senior, President
> russ...@personaltelco.net
> 
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Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[Russell Senior]

> "Rafał" == Rafał Miłecki  writes:

Rafał> Hey, So far I was always using my notebook for the
Rafał> development. My requirements were Intel i7 quad core + AMD GPU. I
Rafał> was using some Samsung but it's GPU has died and I can't replace
Rafał> it (stupid 216-0811000 chipset).

Rafał> I'm looking for a new notebook, but I can't find anything with i7
Rafał> quad core + AMD GPU. I may need to buy something with i7-6500U or
Rafał> i7-7500U which may be too slow for compiling LEDE.

Rafał> How do you develop LEDE? Do you work on some powerful machine, or
Rafał> do you compile it remotely somehow? If you do it remotely, do you
Rafał> mount remote filesystem? I need a very good access to the
Rafał> build_dir for my needs.

I have a 16-core build box which I connect to over ssh.  I use scp to
move images to devices.  I have a testbed with ethernet connections to
the build box and serial consoles on most if not all of them.


-- 
Russell Senior, President
russ...@personaltelco.net

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[Rosen Penev]

On Sun, 2016-11-06 at 21:24 +0100, Rafał Miłecki wrote:
> Hey,
> 
> So far I was always using my notebook for the development. My
> requirements were Intel i7 quad core + AMD GPU. I was using some
> Samsung but it's GPU has died and I can't replace it (stupid
> 216-0811000 chipset).
> 
> I'm looking for a new notebook, but I can't find anything with i7
> quad
> core + AMD GPU. I may need to buy something with i7-6500U or i7-7500U
> which may be too slow for compiling LEDE.
> 
> How do you develop LEDE? Do you work on some powerful machine, or do
> you compile it remotely somehow? If you do it remotely, do you mount
> remote filesystem? I need a very good access to the build_dir for my
> needs.
> 

I'm using a second hand Clevo for my development. Works well. The GPU
uses MXM so it's replaceable.

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[LEDE-DEV] How do you develop (compile) LEDE efficiently?

[Rafał Miłecki]

Hey,

So far I was always using my notebook for the development. My
requirements were Intel i7 quad core + AMD GPU. I was using some
Samsung but it's GPU has died and I can't replace it (stupid
216-0811000 chipset).

I'm looking for a new notebook, but I can't find anything with i7 quad
core + AMD GPU. I may need to buy something with i7-6500U or i7-7500U
which may be too slow for compiling LEDE.

How do you develop LEDE? Do you work on some powerful machine, or do
you compile it remotely somehow? If you do it remotely, do you mount
remote filesystem? I need a very good access to the build_dir for my
needs.

-- 
Rafał

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