Re: Ledger for Personal usage vs Small Business usage
On 2017-03-05, at 12:57, o1bigtenor wrote: >> The question is, what do you mean by "secure". Do you mean "encrypted"? >> Why not encrypt text files? Do you mean "backed up"? I do backups of >> my files daily. Do you mean atomicity of operations? I'm not very >> familiar with that, but with not-so-high volume of hand-input >> transactions, this shouldn't be a big deal, no? > > Only speaking to the last question - - - as the number of transactions goes up > the greater the risk of modulations in descriptions and/or terms used. > This would > be further acerbated by greater numbers of individuals inputting data. > The changes > could be small, like using a capital on a word where the bookkeeper doesn't. > > This is very much less of an issue when it is only one person, and > always the same > person entering data. When that number of persons increases - - well > the risk of > changes increases largely! I see. I also struggle with this occasionally. What I would recommend is to not enter the transactions manually, but create a templating system. (In fact, I started to craft such a system for myself, but it is currently shelved due to lack of time and it not being a critical need for me.) Best, -- Marcin Borkowski -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ledger" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Ledger for Personal usage vs Small Business usage
On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 10:56 AM, John Wiegley wrote: > > "M" == Marcos writes: > > M> 2. Yes. It is possible to encrypt text files too. > > If you have just one Ledger file, you can encrypt it with Gpg, and then > use a > wrapper script that unencrypts it and feeds the result via a pipe to > "ledger > -f -". > > It would be nice for Ledger to natively read and decrypt Gpg files, which > would then work with including files. > > What I do is to create an encrypted loopback filesystem (on the Mac, this > is > called an "encrypted sparsebundle"), in which I store all my Ledger files. Which is also what I do, which is better IMO, as you can store all kinds of other files in the same repo, all encrypted under that fs. Encryption lives very well as a filesystem layer, should not have to be weaved directly into all the programs we use. -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ledger" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Ledger for Personal usage vs Small Business usage
> "M" == Marcos writes: M> 2. Yes. It is possible to encrypt text files too. If you have just one Ledger file, you can encrypt it with Gpg, and then use a wrapper script that unencrypts it and feeds the result via a pipe to "ledger -f -". It would be nice for Ledger to natively read and decrypt Gpg files, which would then work with including files. What I do is to create an encrypted loopback filesystem (on the Mac, this is called an "encrypted sparsebundle"), in which I store all my Ledger files. -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2 -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ledger" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Ledger for Personal usage vs Small Business usage
Dee/Ajoelbin, no not all. I actually value your input (as well as every one else). I just actually learned about Org-Mode and I think I would use it as my invoice/account statement purpose(using tables and such) Its sad that OrgMode doesn't get much recognition for what it is. That being said I am going to learn more about Org Mode and hopefully that will be a valuable tool in keeping things more organized. On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 9:54:04 AM UTC+8, Marcos wrote: > > Hi, > I have been using ledger for a while. I find it very useful personal usage > and tracking my personal expenses however using it for a Small Business > seems a bit daunting and/or scary. > The idea of having all customer data on a text file as opposed to some > secure database does make it seem less suitable for Small Business(in my > opinion). > > On the other hand, the easy and agnostic input of data makes it a valuable > for rapid entries(at the same time not having proper accounting structure > across all files runs the risk of having strange ledger outputs). > > I would like to hear what others here feel about this. > > Thanks > > > > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ledger" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Ledger for Personal usage vs Small Business usage
Dee/Ajoelbin, no not all. I actually value your input (as well as every one else). I just actually learned about Org-Mode and I think I would use it as my invoice/account statement purpose(using tables and such) Its sad that OrgMode doesn't get much recognition for what it is. That being said I am going to learn more about Org Mode and hopefully that will be a valuable tool in keeping things more organized. On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 9:54:04 AM UTC+8, Marcos wrote: > > Hi, > I have been using ledger for a while. I find it very useful personal usage > and tracking my personal expenses however using it for a Small Business > seems a bit daunting and/or scary. > The idea of having all customer data on a text file as opposed to some > secure database does make it seem less suitable for Small Business(in my > opinion). > > On the other hand, the easy and agnostic input of data makes it a valuable > for rapid entries(at the same time not having proper accounting structure > across all files runs the risk of having strange ledger outputs). > > I would like to hear what others here feel about this. > > Thanks > > > > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ledger" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Ledger for Personal usage vs Small Business usage
On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 11:43 PM, Marcos wrote:
> The point I am trying to make here is:-
>
> 1. Yes. It is possible to make incremental backups of text files.
> 2. Yes. It is possible to encrypt text files too.
>
> My concerns:-
>
> Keeping the file organized for large volume transactions.
> Handling salaries, individual receivable accounts / payable accounts ,
> invoicing.
>
> I am not saying that any of the above is inconceivable in ledger. They all
> can be very well managed on Ledger but it can be a bit tedious.
> Maintaining a common structure among all the ledger files is necessary if
> you want to make the most of ledger for a small business in my opinion.
>
> Correct me if I am wrong on any of the above.
>
IMO you are raising some valid points here. In moving from personal finances
to even that of a small business perhaps only a few things change but if that
business grows (and I sure hope mine does!) well some things begin to show
themselves.
I have been combating file organization but using another document for the
maintenance of things like my account codes. For personal use it is easy
enough to not use codes but I want to be able to track what it is that I'm
spending on for my business. This means granularity.
I started by looking at the GIFI codes (General Index of Financial
Information).
Its used by my taxation authorities. Codes used run from 1000 to but
not all codes are needed by all businesses (9370 (IIRC) to are used
for agricultural businesses). This seemed to be a good start but still didn't
give me what I wanted (I wanted my ledger to be a tool for my use rather than
just a tool for calculating taxes owed!). I achieved that by adding
some figures
and because I find that trying to read more than 6 or 7 digits at a
time becomes
more error prone I added some punctuation.
For example (an account code): 8964.10.01.01
8964 - machinery and equipment repairs
.10 - mobile equipment (verses stationary equipment
in the shop)
.xx.01 - a specific type of mobile equipment
.xx.xx.01 - a particular piece of equipment
The system could be expanded to allow for more than 100 pieces being tracked
but for my purposes I thought that this would be adequate.
So as well as writing what say that particular part name is (I use
notes for part
number information) like say alternator I can assign that part to a
specific piece
of equipment. This is useful when I'm looking at costs per amount of
use so that
I can determine when it is advantageous to change that piece of
equipment either
for something that better suits the purpose or functions better (ie by
new or just
newer).
I have setup accounts receivable and payable similarly and it seems to be
working. Haven't yet had more than a trickle of salary needs so that one hasn't
been done yet.
What would be useful would be something like an 'inline calculator'.
ie
Salary for Joe
(notes file)
; period
; hours ('inline calculator' activated and it prints and populates
based on hours)
expense: a: wages paid (each item has
an amount)
expense: b: employee deduction i
expense: c: employee deduction ii
expense: d: employee deduction iii
expense: e: employee deduction iv(until all employee
deductions are done)
expense: j: employer deduction x
expense: k: employer deduction xi(until all employer
deductions are done)
I would envision this calculator to be generic as every jurisdiction
has its own
gotchas. So the capability would be there and the correlations would
be definable
and would need some flexibility AND concreteness. Formulas current for one
date series are not necessarily current for another date series so
there would need
be some kind of 'permanence' to the calculator. (Meaning that
something like this
salary calculator would be used for a specified date range and NOT another
date range.)
Yes this isn't straight forward but welcome to taxation and behemoth
bureaucracies!
I hope that I haven't hijacked Mr. Marcos's thread!
TIA and with highest regard
Dee
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Re: Ledger for Personal usage vs Small Business usage
On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 10:52 PM, Marcin Borkowski wrote: > > On 2017-03-05, at 02:54, Marcos wrote: > >> Hi, >> I have been using ledger for a while. I find it very useful personal usage >> and tracking my personal expenses however using it for a Small Business >> seems a bit daunting and/or scary. >> The idea of having all customer data on a text file as opposed to some >> secure database does make it seem less suitable for Small Business(in my >> opinion). >> >> On the other hand, the easy and agnostic input of data makes it a valuable >> for rapid entries(at the same time not having proper accounting structure >> across all files runs the risk of having strange ledger outputs). >> >> I would like to hear what others here feel about this. > > How would you compare: > > - ledger text files, > - what you refer to as "secure database", > - old-school paper? > > The question is, what do you mean by "secure". Do you mean "encrypted"? > Why not encrypt text files? Do you mean "backed up"? I do backups of > my files daily. Do you mean atomicity of operations? I'm not very > familiar with that, but with not-so-high volume of hand-input > transactions, this shouldn't be a big deal, no? Only speaking to the last question - - - as the number of transactions goes up the greater the risk of modulations in descriptions and/or terms used. This would be further acerbated by greater numbers of individuals inputting data. The changes could be small, like using a capital on a word where the bookkeeper doesn't. This is very much less of an issue when it is only one person, and always the same person entering data. When that number of persons increases - - well the risk of changes increases largely! Regards Dee -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ledger" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Ledger for Personal usage vs Small Business usage
The point I am trying to make here is:- 1. Yes. It is possible to make incremental backups of text files. 2. Yes. It is possible to encrypt text files too. My concerns:- Keeping the file organized for large volume transactions. Handling salaries, individual receivable accounts / payable accounts , invoicing. I am not saying that any of the above is inconceivable in ledger. They all can be very well managed on Ledger but it can be a bit tedious. Maintaining a common structure among all the ledger files is necessary if you want to make the most of ledger for a small business in my opinion. Correct me if I am wrong on any of the above. On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 9:54:04 AM UTC+8, Marcos wrote: > > Hi, > I have been using ledger for a while. I find it very useful personal usage > and tracking my personal expenses however using it for a Small Business > seems a bit daunting and/or scary. > The idea of having all customer data on a text file as opposed to some > secure database does make it seem less suitable for Small Business(in my > opinion). > > On the other hand, the easy and agnostic input of data makes it a valuable > for rapid entries(at the same time not having proper accounting structure > across all files runs the risk of having strange ledger outputs). > > I would like to hear what others here feel about this. > > Thanks > > > > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ledger" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Ledger for Personal usage vs Small Business usage
On 2017-03-05, at 02:54, Marcos wrote: > Hi, > I have been using ledger for a while. I find it very useful personal usage > and tracking my personal expenses however using it for a Small Business > seems a bit daunting and/or scary. > The idea of having all customer data on a text file as opposed to some > secure database does make it seem less suitable for Small Business(in my > opinion). > > On the other hand, the easy and agnostic input of data makes it a valuable > for rapid entries(at the same time not having proper accounting structure > across all files runs the risk of having strange ledger outputs). > > I would like to hear what others here feel about this. How would you compare: - ledger text files, - what you refer to as "secure database", - old-school paper? The question is, what do you mean by "secure". Do you mean "encrypted"? Why not encrypt text files? Do you mean "backed up"? I do backups of my files daily. Do you mean atomicity of operations? I'm not very familiar with that, but with not-so-high volume of hand-input transactions, this shouldn't be a big deal, no? Best, -- Marcin Borkowski -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ledger" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Ledger for Personal usage vs Small Business usage
I use ledger to keep the books for two relatively small non-profits with a fairly low transaction volume. It is just fine for that purpose. It took a little setup but now it saves me tons of time. -- Bob Newell Honolulu, Hawai`i * Via Gnus/BBDB/Org/Emacs/Linux * -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ledger" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Ledger for Personal usage vs Small Business usage
Marcos writes: > The idea of having all customer data on a text file as opposed to some > secure database Could you not keep it in one or more secure text files? By which I mean: Can you expand on what you mean by “secure”, and why you think it is available for a database but not a collection of text files? -- \ “… whoever claims any right that he is unwilling to accord to | `\ his fellow-men is dishonest and infamous.” —Robert G. | _o__) Ingersoll, _The Liberty of Man, Woman and Child_, 1877 | Ben Finney -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ledger" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Ledger for Personal usage vs Small Business usage
Hi, I have been using ledger for a while. I find it very useful personal usage and tracking my personal expenses however using it for a Small Business seems a bit daunting and/or scary. The idea of having all customer data on a text file as opposed to some secure database does make it seem less suitable for Small Business(in my opinion). On the other hand, the easy and agnostic input of data makes it a valuable for rapid entries(at the same time not having proper accounting structure across all files runs the risk of having strange ledger outputs). I would like to hear what others here feel about this. Thanks -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ledger" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ledger-cli+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
