Re: Accurate setup

[CURTIS GEORGE]

Wait. One more thing. did you say you were ??? stopping the movement of the 
router between cuts??? 
5. rotate the work piece 1 revolution. 
6. Move router abour 5/8" to the right 
7. Repeat steps 5 and 6 until reaching the head end of the work piece. 

The ridges can easily be felt and are not just a bit of fuzz. They don't sand 
off very well at all. 


Perhaps I'm reading it wrong? I am tired... I think of it like jogging. You 
Never stop, you have to just move slower when you are tired. other wise, it 
just doesn't work. I think your lines are from stopping... ("Man" I'm going to 
bed now. I'm not even making since, to my self at this min.) ;-p 

Good night. 
C.A.G. 

- Original Message -

From: "CURTIS GEORGE"  
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 12:41:54 AM 
Subject: Re: Accurate setup 

HI Jim 
There has been a lot of good information given here on your topic. 
Have you tried to make one very light pass on the wood and see the results? 
Yes set-up and alignment is important, and making sure that the router bit is 
true too. BUT for what I see form your picture it could just be your feed rate, 
and or perhaps hogging off to much wood in the final pass. (how much wood was 
removed on the last pass?) 
Before I had my motor drive, I use to get best results by turning the spindle 
two-three time for one rev. of the carriage. ( that took a lot of work,and a 
little skill to keep the tempo uniformed. but did have good results. ) 
Another way or moving the carriage by hand and turning the spindle with the 
crank handle. 

Today I have two motors on my machine, one for the spindle and the second on 
for the carriage movement, I get the best results, running to two motors at the 
same time, (no gears linkage.) the spindle moves something like 80 rpm and the 
carriage crawls along the wood. (maybe a 1/2 or under per rev. of the spindle? 
Lets, just say it moves SLOWLY.) I get Very good results with this method. 

Bill. a while back hooked up two different sized sprockets onto his machine 
with a chain. as was able to get a 4-1 (??? I think?) gear ratio that made a 
very nice cut. (Bill feel free to chime in on this one Please.) 

Jim. its called Trial and error method. Try,try and try again, there is no such 
thing as failure, You just need to learn what doesn't work,and then don't do 
that again ! ;-) 

Its late. 
Good night, and good luck on your practicing. 

C.A.G. 






- Original Message -

From: "Jim Riggen"  
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 11:30:22 AM 
Subject: Re: Accurate setup 

First off, thank you all for your comments. I am learning a lot. 

The accuracy I am concerned with is that of the setup. How accurate does the 
setup have to be to get rid of the ridges that remain after I turn the work 
piece to diameter. 

The attached photos will (I hope) show the ridges. 

The process I am using is: 
1. Set the bit height, 
2. start at the tail end, 
3. place the center of the bit about 1/2" to the rear of the center of the 
cylinder, 
4. router carriage fixed, 
5. rotate the work piece 1 revolution. 
6. Move router abour 5/8" to the right 
7. Repeat steps 5 and 6 until reaching the head end of the work piece. 

The ridges can easily be felt and are not just a bit of fuzz. They don't sand 
off very well at all. 







On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 8:17 AM, 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills < 
legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com > wrote: 



my two cents...nine thousandths, .009, to me is an acceptable tolerance for a 
piece done on a legacy machine...there are times when we are cutting up some 
solids for a job and overnight I have seen a difference of thirty thousandths, 
.030 or 1/32",the next day...I have even gotten drawings from architects that 
had measurements with 1/64th inch dimensions and just had to shake my head, 
LOL...and of course, those were all computer generated drawings...as far as the 
corner spec's go, the greatest difference there being thirty thousandths, .030, 
1/32", so if you wanted to tweak that a bit you would most likely get better 
results...but like I said, to expect metal-turning lathe tolerances on a legacy 
( i.e. .001), might be unrealistic...even hand sanding can disrupt anyone's 
tolerances...bill's four block method is what we do and if we are off a hair, 
we don't sweat it...just one person's opinion here...joe biunno 

















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Re: Accurate setup

[CURTIS GEORGE]

HI Jim 
There has been a lot of good information given here on your topic. 
Have you tried to make one very light pass on the wood and see the results? 
Yes set-up and alignment is important, and making sure that the router bit is 
true too. BUT for what I see form your picture it could just be your feed rate, 
and or perhaps hogging off to much wood in the final pass. (how much wood was 
removed on the last pass?) 
Before I had my motor drive, I use to get best results by turning the spindle 
two-three time for one rev. of the carriage. ( that took a lot of work,and a 
little skill to keep the tempo uniformed. but did have good results. ) 
Another way or moving the carriage by hand and turning the spindle with the 
crank handle. 

Today I have two motors on my machine, one for the spindle and the second on 
for the carriage movement, I get the best results, running to two motors at the 
same time, (no gears linkage.) the spindle moves something like 80 rpm and the 
carriage crawls along the wood. (maybe a 1/2 or under per rev. of the spindle? 
Lets, just say it moves SLOWLY.) I get Very good results with this method. 

Bill. a while back hooked up two different sized sprockets onto his machine 
with a chain. as was able to get a 4-1 (??? I think?) gear ratio that made a 
very nice cut. (Bill feel free to chime in on this one Please.) 

Jim. its called Trial and error method. Try,try and try again, there is no such 
thing as failure, You just need to learn what doesn't work,and then don't do 
that again ! ;-) 

Its late. 
Good night, and good luck on your practicing. 

C.A.G. 






- Original Message -

From: "Jim Riggen"  
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 11:30:22 AM 
Subject: Re: Accurate setup 

First off, thank you all for your comments. I am learning a lot. 

The accuracy I am concerned with is that of the setup. How accurate does the 
setup have to be to get rid of the ridges that remain after I turn the work 
piece to diameter. 

The attached photos will (I hope) show the ridges. 

The process I am using is: 
1. Set the bit height, 
2. start at the tail end, 
3. place the center of the bit about 1/2" to the rear of the center of the 
cylinder, 
4. router carriage fixed, 
5. rotate the work piece 1 revolution. 
6. Move router abour 5/8" to the right 
7. Repeat steps 5 and 6 until reaching the head end of the work piece. 

The ridges can easily be felt and are not just a bit of fuzz. They don't sand 
off very well at all. 







On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 8:17 AM, 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills < 
legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com > wrote: 



my two cents...nine thousandths, .009, to me is an acceptable tolerance for a 
piece done on a legacy machine...there are times when we are cutting up some 
solids for a job and overnight I have seen a difference of thirty thousandths, 
.030 or 1/32",the next day...I have even gotten drawings from architects that 
had measurements with 1/64th inch dimensions and just had to shake my head, 
LOL...and of course, those were all computer generated drawings...as far as the 
corner spec's go, the greatest difference there being thirty thousandths, .030, 
1/32", so if you wanted to tweak that a bit you would most likely get better 
results...but like I said, to expect metal-turning lathe tolerances on a legacy 
( i.e. .001), might be unrealistic...even hand sanding can disrupt anyone's 
tolerances...bill's four block method is what we do and if we are off a hair, 
we don't sweat it...just one person's opinion here...joe biunno 

















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Re: Accurate setup

[Okla Mike (Liltwisted)]

One thing you may look into is the square of the router.  If one side, 
left or right, is high, it will do what we are seeing here.  Also if the 
router is allowed to lift because of pressure it will do this.  If all 
is close enough and you take a clean out final pass, start it half the 
distance of the blade to cut the ridge instead of repeating the same 
cut.  About a 1/32 of an inch is plenty.


Mike OK


On 2/15/2017 10:30 AM, Jim Riggen wrote:

First off, thank you all for your comments. I am learning a lot.

The accuracy I am concerned with is that of the setup.  How accurate 
does the setup have to be to get rid of the ridges that remain after I 
turn the work piece to diameter.


The attached photos will (I hope) show the ridges.

The process I am using is:
1. Set the bit height,
2. start at the tail end,
3. place the center of the bit about 1/2" to the rear of the center of 
the cylinder,

4. router carriage fixed,
5. rotate the work piece 1 revolution.
6. Move router abour 5/8" to the right
7. Repeat steps 5 and 6 until reaching the head end of the work piece.

The ridges can easily be felt and are not just a bit of fuzz.  They 
don't sand off very well at all.








On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 8:17 AM, 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental 
Mills > wrote:


my two cents...nine thousandths, .009, to me is an acceptable
tolerance for a piece done on a legacy machine...there are times
when we are cutting up some solids for a job and overnight I have
seen a difference of thirty thousandths, .030 or 1/32",the next
day...I have even gotten drawings from architects that had
measurements with 1/64th inch dimensions and just had to shake my
head, LOL...and of course, those were all computer generated
drawings...as far as the corner spec's go, the greatest difference
there being thirty thousandths, .030, 1/32", so if you wanted to
tweak that a bit you would most likely get better results...but
like I said, to expect metal-turning lathe tolerances on a legacy
( i.e. .001), might be unrealistic...even hand sanding can disrupt
anyone's tolerances...bill's four block method is what we do and
if we are off a hair, we don't sweat it...just one person's
opinion here...joe biunno


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Re: Accurate setup

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

I would think you should decrease your rate of feed as much as possible, or 
increase the spindle RPM's...5/8" in one revolution is a fast feed, in my 
opinion...but then again, you don't want to stand there for an extended 
period of time while the router moves from one end to the other...but I do 
think you will still have some sort of ridge remaining after the cut under 
any circumstance, but most likely it will be minor and quite possibly very 
easy to sand out...joe


>

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Re: Accurate setup

[Jim Riggen]

First off, thank you all for your comments. I am learning a lot.

The accuracy I am concerned with is that of the setup.  How accurate does
the setup have to be to get rid of the ridges that remain after I turn the
work piece to diameter.

The attached photos will (I hope) show the ridges.

The process I am using is:
1. Set the bit height,
2. start at the tail end,
3. place the center of the bit about 1/2" to the rear of the center of the
cylinder,
4. router carriage fixed,
5. rotate the work piece 1 revolution.
6. Move router abour 5/8" to the right
7. Repeat steps 5 and 6 until reaching the head end of the work piece.

The ridges can easily be felt and are not just a bit of fuzz.  They don't
sand off very well at all.







On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 8:17 AM, 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills <
legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> my two cents...nine thousandths, .009, to me is an acceptable tolerance
> for a piece done on a legacy machine...there are times when we are cutting
> up some solids for a job and overnight I have seen a difference of thirty
> thousandths, .030 or 1/32",the next day...I have even gotten drawings from
> architects that had measurements with 1/64th inch dimensions and just had
> to shake my head, LOL...and of course, those were all computer generated
> drawings...as far as the corner spec's go, the greatest difference there
> being thirty thousandths, .030, 1/32", so if you wanted to tweak that a bit
> you would most likely get better results...but like I said, to expect
> metal-turning lathe tolerances on a legacy ( i.e. .001), might be
> unrealistic...even hand sanding can disrupt anyone's tolerances...bill's
> four block method is what we do and if we are off a hair, we don't sweat
> it...just one person's opinion here...joe biunno
>
>
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Re: Accurate setup

[Tim Krause]

Hi Jim,

Can you take a photo of your results?  The offset of the routerbit is more
important than the four corner measurements.  For starters, is the 2704 bit
really flat? The offset of the bit can be anywhere from where the tip of the
touches center to just short of the center of the bit.  If the four corners
are off you will get a taper.  Like others suggested, is you headstock and
tailstock in alignment?  Use a dead center in the headstock and slide the
tailstock up to the headstock.  Are the points aligning?  That's one source
of taper, but from your message It's hard to tell what is going on.  Also,
what is the speed you are running the bit on. and how are you advancing the
bit.  You might be going too fast.  That's my thoughts.  Photos speak
volumes.

-Tim



- Original Message - 
From: "Jim Riggen" 
To: "Legacy Ornamental Mills" 
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 7:46 PM
Subject: Accurate setup


> I tried my first effort tonight. I made a round piece of wood! One problem
though. I used a #2704 bit hoping to get a smooth cylinder. Alas, I did not.
I think the router and wood are not perpendicular. The error is quite small.
How do I correct this?
>
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Re: Accurate setup

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

forgot to ask, how well does the tailstock line up with the headstock?...a 
.004" misalignment will produce a .009 taper...and the legacy design, in 
regards to headstock and tailstock, while very adequate for all that it 
needs to do, certainly is prone to a small misalignment...joe


>
>
>>>

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Re: Accurate setup

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

my two cents...nine thousandths, .009, to me is an acceptable tolerance for 
a piece done on a legacy machine...there are times when we are cutting up 
some solids for a job and overnight I have seen a difference of thirty 
thousandths, .030 or 1/32",the next day...I have even gotten drawings from 
architects that had measurements with 1/64th inch dimensions and just had 
to shake my head, LOL...and of course, those were all computer generated 
drawings...as far as the corner spec's go, the greatest difference there 
being thirty thousandths, .030, 1/32", so if you wanted to tweak that a bit 
you would most likely get better results...but like I said, to expect 
metal-turning lathe tolerances on a legacy ( i.e. .001), might be 
unrealistic...even hand sanding can disrupt anyone's tolerances...bill's 
four block method is what we do and if we are off a hair, we don't sweat 
it...just one person's opinion here...joe biunno


>>

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