RE: Legacy cutting rotation (climb milling vs Undercutting.)

[Bill Bulkeley]

Yes I don’t get the group they don’t respond to legacy stuff but look at the 
responses to all the legacy bitching not what the group is all about.

I see what you mean on the pictures now that you explained it to me

Bill

 

From: 'Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Monday, 20 November 2017 1:47 PM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Legacy cutting rotation (climb milling vs Undercutting.)

 

Hello Bill

No pattern, just a flat straight cut. 

The pictures had to be reduced in order to post them to the group. you don't 
see the details in the quality of the cuts. The first is smooth and silky, the 
second one (Gear cut) has lots of scratches, and tare-out on the end grain.

I like to round off most of the wood to round before  I do any detail work. But 
it shows the difference between the methods of cutting.

 

I was hoping people would start responding, The Legacy can do an Awesome job, 
but there are some tricks of the trade that can be used to make the job easier 
and faster to do, with out much sanding on the finished part.  My first cut 
looks as if it was sanded to 220 grit. the other perhaps 60 grit. ;-p (but 
there was no sanding done in this photos, its all router bit...)

 

More latter.

I have to be up early tomorrow.

Have a good night.

 

C.A.G.

 

 

 

 

 

On Sunday, November 19, 2017 9:33 PM, Bill Bulkeley  
wrote:

 

Is that from the side as well? What’s different no pattern this time

Bill

 

From: 'Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Monday, 20 November 2017 12:47 PM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Legacy cutting rotation (climb milling vs Undercutting.)

 

Okay Bill. 

Here is another part that I did yesterday.

 

I will show more in the next posting, Same wood, same flat bottom router bit. 
Look at the difference in the cut.

 

More latter.

C.A.G.

 

On Saturday, November 18, 2017 5:18 PM, Bill Bulkeley  
wrote:

 

Interesting curt keep em coming

Bill

 

From: 'Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Sunday, 19 November 2017 6:16 AM
To: Legacy-Ornamental-Mills
Subject: Legacy cutting rotation (climb milling vs Undercutting.)

 

Hello Everyone. Its Saturday and I'm not working today! ;-) (but I will be 
tomorrow Sunday.) ;-(

 

I posted the climb milling vs undercutting earlier this week. (the earlier post 
is very well written, but lets put this into real life application on the 
Legacy this time.)

 

In the wood working world climb cutting is not a safe way to use a router.  But 
on the Legacy it dose give you the best type of cut in most applications. But 
having said that, you must always know your wood and machining process ( wood 
cut in one direction will act in one way, and in the other will act in 
another...)  AND THIS IS REALLY WHAT I want to look at today.

 

In Picture #1 (and 1.1.) I am cutting form the right side of the wood. 

In picture #2 (...) I am cutting form the Left side of the wood.

Look at the pictures,  on #1 the edge closed to you is cleanly cut, but the 
other edge is very poorly cut and ragged. But the cuts are opposite in cut 
(pitcher #2) Why is this?

The router bit on the clean side is climb milling, (the router cutting edge is 
cutting down into the grain, but on the other edge its undercutting, (lifting 
up the wood as the edge is cutting through.)

So if you are making a spindle you need to know this, in order to get the best 
quality of cut on your wood. depending on what side of the wood you are cutting 
will determine  what edge will be a clean cut or a ragged cut.

 

look at the photos.

 

Latter I want to look at what way will give me/you the best quality of cut, for 
smoothness/ finish cut.  But I will stop here now.

More latter.

C.A.G.

 


 

 

Virus-free.  

 www.avg.com 

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Re: Legacy cutting rotation (climb milling vs Undercutting.)

['Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

Hello BillNo pattern, just a flat straight cut. The pictures had to be reduced 
in order to post them to the group. you don't see the details in the quality of 
the cuts. The first is smooth and silky, the second one (Gear cut) has lots of 
scratches, and tare-out on the end grain.I like to round off most of the wood 
to round before  I do any detail work. But it shows the difference between the 
methods of cutting.
I was hoping people would start responding, The Legacy can do an Awesome job, 
but there are some tricks of the trade that can be used to make the job easier 
and faster to do, with out much sanding on the finished part.  My first cut 
looks as if it was sanded to 220 grit. the other perhaps 60 grit. ;-p (but 
there was no sanding done in this photos, its all router bit...)
More latter.I have to be up early tomorrow.Have a good night.
C.A.G.



 

On Sunday, November 19, 2017 9:33 PM, Bill Bulkeley  
wrote:
 

 #yiv8548810439 #yiv8548810439 -- _filtered #yiv8548810439 
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{}#yiv8548810439 Is that from the side as well? What’s differentno pattern this 
time Bill    From:'Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental 
Mills[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Monday, 20 November 201712:47 PM
To:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Legacy cuttingrotation (climb milling vs Undercutting.)    Okay 
Bill.  Here is another part that I did yesterday.    I will show more in the 
next posting, Same wood, same flat bottomrouter bit. Look at the difference in 
the cut.    More latter. C.A.G.    On Saturday, November 18, 2017 5:18 PM, Bill 
Bulkeley wrote:    Interesting curt keep em coming Bill  
 From: 'Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental 
Mills[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Sunday, 19 November 20176:16 AM
To: Legacy-Ornamental-Mills
Subject: Legacy cutting rotation(climb milling vs Undercutting.)   Hello 
Everyone. Its Saturday and I'm not working today! ;-) (but Iwill be tomorrow 
Sunday.) ;-(   I posted the climb milling vs undercutting earlier this week. 
(theearlier post is very well written, but lets put this into real life 
applicationon the Legacy this time.)   In the wood working world climb cutting 
is not a safe way to use arouter.  But on the Legacy it dose give you the best 
type of cut in mostapplications. But having said that, you must always know 
your wood andmachining process ( wood cut in one direction will act in one way, 
and in theother will act in another...)  AND THIS IS REALLY WHAT I want to look 
attoday.   In Picture #1 (and 1.1.) I am cutting form the right side of 
thewood.  In picture #2 (...) I am cutting form the Left side of the wood. Look 
at the pictures,  on #1 the edge closed to 

RE: Legacy cutting rotation (climb milling vs Undercutting.)

[Bill Bulkeley]

Is that from the side as well? What’s different no pattern this time

Bill

 

From: 'Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Monday, 20 November 2017 12:47 PM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Legacy cutting rotation (climb milling vs Undercutting.)

 

Okay Bill. 

Here is another part that I did yesterday.

 

I will show more in the next posting, Same wood, same flat bottom router bit. 
Look at the difference in the cut.

 

More latter.

C.A.G.

 

On Saturday, November 18, 2017 5:18 PM, Bill Bulkeley  
wrote:

 

Interesting curt keep em coming

Bill

 

From: 'Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Sunday, 19 November 2017 6:16 AM
To: Legacy-Ornamental-Mills
Subject: Legacy cutting rotation (climb milling vs Undercutting.)

 

Hello Everyone. Its Saturday and I'm not working today! ;-) (but I will be 
tomorrow Sunday.) ;-(

 

I posted the climb milling vs undercutting earlier this week. (the earlier post 
is very well written, but lets put this into real life application on the 
Legacy this time.)

 

In the wood working world climb cutting is not a safe way to use a router.  But 
on the Legacy it dose give you the best type of cut in most applications. But 
having said that, you must always know your wood and machining process ( wood 
cut in one direction will act in one way, and in the other will act in 
another...)  AND THIS IS REALLY WHAT I want to look at today.

 

In Picture #1 (and 1.1.) I am cutting form the right side of the wood. 

In picture #2 (...) I am cutting form the Left side of the wood.

Look at the pictures,  on #1 the edge closed to you is cleanly cut, but the 
other edge is very poorly cut and ragged. But the cuts are opposite in cut 
(pitcher #2) Why is this?

The router bit on the clean side is climb milling, (the router cutting edge is 
cutting down into the grain, but on the other edge its undercutting, (lifting 
up the wood as the edge is cutting through.)

So if you are making a spindle you need to know this, in order to get the best 
quality of cut on your wood. depending on what side of the wood you are cutting 
will determine  what edge will be a clean cut or a ragged cut.

 

look at the photos.

 

Latter I want to look at what way will give me/you the best quality of cut, for 
smoothness/ finish cut.  But I will stop here now.

More latter.

C.A.G.

 


 

 

Virus-free.  

 www.avg.com 

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** New Legacy Video **

[russ veinot]

I have a new video on YouTube at: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3bGRBH62CQ

this is part 2 of my Legacy Mill Workstation.  I think my LOM deserves its 
own dedicated workstation with supporting accessories.  stop by and see the 
progress and ideas of what is next.

thanks for the words of encouragement

Russ

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Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[russ veinot]

ok, I have now cooled off even to give a civil response to Andy's 
clarification,  as Curt said: "WHAT?!!?"

I am one of the first few to join this forum (in the first month?).  Art 
introduced me to it.  I was told it was a forum for Legacy owners to share 
info.  after joining, I noticed there weren't very many subscribers, maybe 
less than 10?  I ask Art about why not ask the Legacy Company to 
participate and maybe let their customers know about the forum.  He told me 
he had ask them about this when starting the forum.  according to him, 
they  not only would not do this they tried to discourage him from starting 
it.  When I ever added a comment to the forum about improvements he was 
always encouraging it.  I now believe that if Legacy has their way this 
forum would not exist.  if you think about the growth over the years,  I 
can't remember a single time someone has said they found this forum when 
they bought their Legacy, NOT ONE.  
I have, this year, put out what I think are several very helpful articles 
(videos) about the LOM and not one comment (words of encouragement) from 
"you know who".

I think I knew Art fairly well and I remember one of his most defining 
characteristics was he was directly honest and would say what he thought.  
I am also inflicted with this same direct honesty.  so I think that I have 
to say that the "story" that Art started this forum to sell CNC machines to 
OM owners, in my opinion, is not only a load of bologna (replace this with 
the word of your choice), it was cruel and shameful.  

one more thing,  about the "No Sales List", I find it laughable that the 
number of people alleged to have "yelled at a poor little 80 year old woman 
on the phone that he had to start this list.  I believe this list exist but 
I question as to who is on it and why.  I have done business with their 
customer service on several occasions and find them to be average.  the 
comment was made that they "monitor" this forum and maybe they would like 
to tell all if someone is on this list only because of what was said here.  
personally, I would wear this "disgrace" as a badge of honor.  

I only hope there are others here that remember Art in the same 
reverence that I do.
thanks
Russ

On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 10:47:53 PM UTC-6, Tim wrote:

>
> I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
> forward this email to the group.  
>
>  Forwarded Message  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Tim,
>
>
> I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
> support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
> product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
> becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could 
> have been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to 
> complain would have found something in the longer explanation to complain 
> about too.  With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole 
> story could have been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the 
> whole story onto the forum, is not what some of those making comments on 
> the thread intended.   
>
>
> Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and 
> some just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they 
> would have spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an 
> online conversation with others that definitely don't have the answers 
> either.  I have an 800 number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm 
> not hiding.  800 279 4570
>
>
> If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and 
> use index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build 
> and stock many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that 
> go missing or wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second 
> hand OMs at yard and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new 
> owners were to join the misinformed on this google group and believed the 
> nonsense that they read they may not been able to buy these items because 
> they believed the myth that we don't provide any customer service for our 
> OM's and they would not have called and receive the parts they needed.  You 
> can see why I don't encourage people to join the group. Of course, it is 
> true, that we no longer stock many of the parts required to build an OM 
> from scratch.  If you back your car over your OM in the garage I'm afraid I 
> won't be able to help you. 
>
>
> Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to 
> allow someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for 
> OM owners but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, 
> ignorant, arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those 
> that were commenting on the thread today. If the google group forum isn't a 
> place to find the 

Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Okla Mike (Liltwisted)]

If you were Rude, Crude and social unacceptable, then you know you are 
on it.  If you think you may be on it, kindness and apologies may be in 
order to complete an order. But if you are on the naughty list to stay, 
I hope you will send pictures of your barley twisted lump of coal.


Mike OK


On 11/19/2017 9:07 AM, jwb...@windstream.net wrote:

So Legacy has a Naughty list.  How can we find out if we are on it?





 'Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
 wrote:

Good evening AndyI was not aware that Art was doing anything other then building his own 
machine for him self, This group was formed long before the CNC topic came up.But AS for 
myself.My Goal is and has always been to , "Try" the get the most out of the 
Legacy Ornamental Mill.
No apologizes are necessary to me, I am glad that there is no longer a 
conflict/ misunderstands here.
Again I thank you for clearing up the confusion. and hope to start a new 
page... water under the bridge so to speak.
Have a good night.C.A.G.

 On Thursday, November 16, 2017 8:03 PM, Andy Anderson 
 wrote:
  


  Curt,I didn't mention Art's name before, he has passed beyond all of life's 
grief and trouble and should rest in peace, but since you bring it up I'll 
respond.  Art did design and sell a CNC system.  I can't say how successful he 
was but I was contacted by many of my loyal OM customers to inform me that he 
had contacted them and tried to sell them a CNC.  Since we were also selling a 
CNC system at that time they felt the need to tell me about it.  Their only 
contact with Art was through this group so it isn't too difficult to draw the 
conclusion.  If that was not your intent when you started the group then you 
have my apology but my facts are not WRONG.  I spoke to Art on several 
occasions about our conflict.  These are facts, you may not be aware of them or 
part of the disinformation campaign but I am not wrong on this.  Many people 
thought highly of Art and I wouldn't have brought this up if you hadn't made 
the claim that I was trying to misinform the group.Again, I apologize if you 
were caught in the cross-fire but you can only speak to your own actions and 
intents and not to the actions and intents of others.  Let's let the matter and 
Art rest.Andy

On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-7, Tim wrote:
   
   I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to forward this email to the group.
  
   Forwarded Message 

|
   |
   |
|
   |
   |
|
   |
   |
|
   |
   |

  
  
  
  
   
   Dear Tim,

   I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could have 
been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to complain 
would have found something in the longer explanation to complain about too.  
With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole story could have 
been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the whole story onto the 
forum, is not what some of those making comments on the thread intended.
   Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and some 
just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they would have 
spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an online conversation 
with others that definitely don't have the answers either.  I have an 800 
number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm not hiding.  800 279 4570
   If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and use 
index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build and stock 
many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that go missing or 
wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second hand OMs at yard 
and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new owners were to join the 
misinformed on this google group and believed the nonsense that they read they 
may not been able to buy these items because they believed the myth that we 
don't provide any customer service for our OM's and they would not have called 
and receive the  parts they needed.  You can see why I don't encourage people 
to join the group. Of course, it is true, that we no longer stock many of the 
parts required to build an OM from scratch.  If you back your car over your OM 
in the garage I'm afraid I won't be able to help you.
   Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to allow 
someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for OM owners 
but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, ignorant, 
arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those that were 
commenting on the thread today. If the 

Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[jwb764]

So Legacy has a Naughty list.  How can we find out if we are on it?





 'Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
 wrote: 
> Good evening AndyI was not aware that Art was doing anything other then 
> building his own machine for him self, This group was formed long before the 
> CNC topic came up.But AS for myself.My Goal is and has always been to , "Try" 
> the get the most out of the Legacy Ornamental Mill.
> No apologizes are necessary to me, I am glad that there is no longer a 
> conflict/ misunderstands here.
> Again I thank you for clearing up the confusion. and hope to start a new 
> page... water under the bridge so to speak.
> Have a good night.C.A.G. 
> 
> On Thursday, November 16, 2017 8:03 PM, Andy Anderson 
>  wrote:
>  
> 
>  Curt,I didn't mention Art's name before, he has passed beyond all of life's 
> grief and trouble and should rest in peace, but since you bring it up I'll 
> respond.  Art did design and sell a CNC system.  I can't say how successful 
> he was but I was contacted by many of my loyal OM customers to inform me that 
> he had contacted them and tried to sell them a CNC.  Since we were also 
> selling a CNC system at that time they felt the need to tell me about it.  
> Their only contact with Art was through this group so it isn't too difficult 
> to draw the conclusion.  If that was not your intent when you started the 
> group then you have my apology but my facts are not WRONG.  I spoke to Art on 
> several occasions about our conflict.  These are facts, you may not be aware 
> of them or part of the disinformation campaign but I am not wrong on this.  
> Many people thought highly of Art and I wouldn't have brought this up if you 
> hadn't made the claim that I was trying to misinform the group.Again, I 
> apologize if you were caught in the cross-fire but you can only speak to your 
> own actions and intents and not to the actions and intents of others.  Let's 
> let the matter and Art rest.Andy 
> 
> On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-7, Tim wrote:
>   
>   I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
> forward this email to the group.  
>  
>   Forwarded Message  
> | 
>   | 
>   |
> | 
>   | 
>   |
> | 
>   | 
>   |
> | 
>   | 
>   |
> 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>   
>   Dear Tim, 
>   I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
> support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
> product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
> becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could have 
> been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to complain 
> would have found something in the longer explanation to complain about too.  
> With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole story could have 
> been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the whole story onto 
> the forum, is not what some of those making comments on the thread intended.  
>   
>   Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and some 
> just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they would 
> have spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an online 
> conversation with others that definitely don't have the answers either.  I 
> have an 800 number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm not hiding.  
> 800 279 4570 
>   If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and 
> use index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build and 
> stock many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that go 
> missing or wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second hand 
> OMs at yard and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new owners were 
> to join the misinformed on this google group and believed the nonsense that 
> they read they may not been able to buy these items because they believed the 
> myth that we don't provide any customer service for our OM's and they would 
> not have called and receive the  parts they needed.  You can see why I don't 
> encourage people to join the group. Of course, it is true, that we no longer 
> stock many of the parts required to build an OM from scratch.  If you back 
> your car over your OM in the garage I'm afraid I won't be able to help you.  
>   Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to allow 
> someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for OM 
> owners but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, 
> ignorant, arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those 
> that were commenting on the thread today. If the google group forum isn't a 
> place to find the facts then what exactly is it's purpose?  As I pointed out 
> in our conversation this morning, many of the comments were made