Re: [LegacyUG] unknown gender

[Susan Nielsen]

Thank you

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Jenny M Benson 
wrote:

> On 15-May-17 09:31 PM, Jenny M Benson wrote:
>
>>
>> I think this is a bug.
>>
>
>  ... and I have reported it.
>
>
> --
> Jenny M Benson
> http://jennygenes.blogspot.co.uk/
>
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Re: [LegacyUG] unknown gender

[Jenny M Benson]

On 15-May-17 09:31 PM, Jenny M Benson wrote:


I think this is a bug.


 ... and I have reported it.

--
Jenny M Benson
http://jennygenes.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: [LegacyUG] unknown gender

[Jenny M Benson]

On 15-May-17 08:25 PM, Susan Nielsen wrote:

Another question:
Although I've checked and rechecked that the gender for this child is 
"Unknown", the Chronology continues to show the child as "son". Can't 
figure out why...

Copied here:

"~25Abt 1884Child born (1-#2):Austria.  Stark (born about 1884 in 
Austria - died before 1887) *son *of Peter Stark and Katherine Pesche. "


Any ideas why?



I think this is a bug.  I have just (temporarily!) changed my son's 
gender to unknown and Chronology continues to show him as his father's 
son.  Changed him to female and Chronology got it right.


--
Jenny M Benson
http://jennygenes.blogspot.co.uk/

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[LegacyUG] unknown gender

[Susan Nielsen]

Another question:
Although I've checked and rechecked that the gender for this child is
"Unknown", the Chronology continues to show the child as "son". Can't
figure out why...
Copied here:

"~25 Abt 1884 Child born (1-#2): Austria.  Stark (born about 1884 in
Austria - died before 1887) *son *of Peter Stark and Katherine Pesche. "

Any ideas why?
Thank you
Susan
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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown gender

[Ruth Mohr]

Thanks Brian.  I followed your directions and it worked fine.  As I thought
it may have been  both infants were stillbirths and the sex not marked on
records.  Thank you again.

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 5:07 PM, Brian Kelly  wrote:

> Search > Find > Detailed Search
> Look for Sex Equal to Unknown.
>
> I have 19 of those in my file.
>
> Brian Kelly
>
>
> On 27-Apr-17 4:58 PM, Ruth Mohr wrote:
>
>> I am using Legacy 8 Deluxe with the latest upgrade.   I ran a Statistics
>> report and it shows that I have 2 people with "Unknown Gender".  Is there
>> a
>> way to find which 2 people they are without going through the Index of
>> approximate 10,000 people.? Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown gender

[Brian Kelly]

Search > Find > Detailed Search
Look for Sex Equal to Unknown.

I have 19 of those in my file.

Brian Kelly

On 27-Apr-17 4:58 PM, Ruth Mohr wrote:

I am using Legacy 8 Deluxe with the latest upgrade.   I ran a Statistics
report and it shows that I have 2 people with "Unknown Gender".  Is there a
way to find which 2 people they are without going through the Index of
approximate 10,000 people.? Thank you.






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[LegacyUG] Unknown gender

[Ruth Mohr]

I am using Legacy 8 Deluxe with the latest upgrade.   I ran a Statistics
report and it shows that I have 2 people with "Unknown Gender".  Is there a
way to find which 2 people they are without going through the Index of
approximate 10,000 people.? Thank you.
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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown partner names

[Helen McCall]

Now that sounds nice and sneaky.  I'll give it a go.  Thanks
Helen

On 9/08/2015 8:23 AM, Wendy Howard wrote:
> Would privacy brackets help you here?  That is, put square brackets
> [[around anything 'private']] like this. You can see them on the screen
> when you're in Legacy, but you can choose to not include that data in
> reports.  You could use them to mark the missing portion of the surname,
> so you can see at a glance that it's missing, but you do not have to
> include it in reports if you want to withhold it.
>
> I often use privacy brackets when I know a person exists, but don't know
> their name, and once I find out their name enter it as an AKA, and then
> switch the AKA with the main name, to preserve the path of research (I
> like to use citation dates, so you can see which data was entered when).
>
> Hope this helps.  :-)
>
> Wendy
>
> Helen McCall wrote on 8/08/2015 21:27:
>> My tree has South American as well as European people in it.  So the
>> South American's have two surnames.  Sometimes the second or even first
>> surname of someone is not remembered, so only one surname can be entered
>> for children and possibly parents.  But the correct name should have
>> two.  Because it's a mixed tree this absence is not readily apparent if
>> no marker is used.  How can you show that one is missing, when Legacy
>> doesn't like you to enter a ? or something like that.   I assume this is
>> a problem others have already solved.
>> Thanks
>> Helen
>
>
>
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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown partner names

[Wendy Howard]

Would privacy brackets help you here?  That is, put square brackets
[[around anything 'private']] like this. You can see them on the screen
when you're in Legacy, but you can choose to not include that data in
reports.  You could use them to mark the missing portion of the surname,
so you can see at a glance that it's missing, but you do not have to
include it in reports if you want to withhold it.

I often use privacy brackets when I know a person exists, but don't know
their name, and once I find out their name enter it as an AKA, and then
switch the AKA with the main name, to preserve the path of research (I
like to use citation dates, so you can see which data was entered when).

Hope this helps.  :-)

Wendy

Helen McCall wrote on 8/08/2015 21:27:
> My tree has South American as well as European people in it.  So the
> South American's have two surnames.  Sometimes the second or even first
> surname of someone is not remembered, so only one surname can be entered
> for children and possibly parents.  But the correct name should have
> two.  Because it's a mixed tree this absence is not readily apparent if
> no marker is used.  How can you show that one is missing, when Legacy
> doesn't like you to enter a ? or something like that.   I assume this is
> a problem others have already solved.
> Thanks
> Helen





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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown partner names

[Eliz Hanebury]

legacy doesn't mind if you use brackets, so you could put in () or []
with not known or something similar.
Eliz
Not Today and Not without a Fight
(Anon)

For all that has been, thanks.
For all that will be, yes.
(Dag Hammarskjold)


On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 5:27 AM, Helen McCall  wrote:
> My tree has South American as well as European people in it.  So the
> South American's have two surnames.  Sometimes the second or even first
> surname of someone is not remembered, so only one surname can be entered
> for children and possibly parents.  But the correct name should have
> two.  Because it's a mixed tree this absence is not readily apparent if
> no marker is used.  How can you show that one is missing, when Legacy
> doesn't like you to enter a ? or something like that.   I assume this is
> a problem others have already solved.
> Thanks
> Helen
>
>
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
>
> http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
>
> Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009:
>
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>
> Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009:
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>
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> our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com).
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>




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[LegacyUG] Unknown partner names

[Helen McCall]

My tree has South American as well as European people in it.  So the
South American's have two surnames.  Sometimes the second or even first
surname of someone is not remembered, so only one surname can be entered
for children and possibly parents.  But the correct name should have
two.  Because it's a mixed tree this absence is not readily apparent if
no marker is used.  How can you show that one is missing, when Legacy
doesn't like you to enter a ? or something like that.   I assume this is
a problem others have already solved.
Thanks
Helen




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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown individuals after update

[marcie]

My only database opened along with lots of new names.  I deleted the database 
and restored from a back up.  The "new" names are gone.

On Sun, 6/7/15, Robert57P_gmail  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown individuals after update
 To: legacyusergroup@LegacyUsers.com
 Date: Sunday, June 7, 2015, 4:08 PM

 Have you double checked that the new
 version is opening up the same
 database?  Maybe after the update the default "open"
 changed somehow.

 On 06/07/2015 10:50, marcie wrote:
 > I just updated Legacy and now have a large amount of
 unknown individuals not connected to my tree.  Have no
 idea who they are, but there are marriages connected to
 them.  The version not updated on my other computer
 does not have these individuals.  Where did they come
 from and am I able to go back to my old version of Legacy?
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > Legacy User Group guidelines:
 >
 > http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
 >
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 >
 > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
 >
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 2009:
 >
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 >
 > Online technical support: http://support.legacyfamilytree.com
 >
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 and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com).
 >
 > To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
 >
 >





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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown individuals after update

[Robert57P_gmail]

Have you double checked that the new version is opening up the same
database?  Maybe after the update the default "open" changed somehow.

On 06/07/2015 10:50, marcie wrote:
> I just updated Legacy and now have a large amount of unknown individuals not 
> connected to my tree.  Have no idea who they are, but there are marriages 
> connected to them.  The version not updated on my other computer does not 
> have these individuals.  Where did they come from and am I able to go back to 
> my old version of Legacy?
>
>
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
>
> http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
>
> Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
>
> Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/
>
> Online technical support: http://support.legacyfamilytree.com
>
> Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on 
> our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com).
>
> To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
>
>





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[LegacyUG] Unknown individuals after update

[marcie]

I just updated Legacy and now have a large amount of unknown individuals not 
connected to my tree.  Have no idea who they are, but there are marriages 
connected to them.  The version not updated on my other computer does not have 
these individuals.  Where did they come from and am I able to go back to my old 
version of Legacy?




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RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown Persons

[Barton Lewis]

Wow, who knew … Thank you Jay for sharing these wonderful sites.



Barton



From: Jay Wilpolt [mailto:jaywilp...@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2015 7:24 PM
To: legacyusergroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Persons



John,

For Gedcom validation I recommed

 Genealogica Grafica  http://www.genealogicagrafica.nl/

or try Tim's Bonkersits GREAT!
http://www.mccomberfamily.com/2013/02/bonkers-gedcom-sanity-checker.html





These both go much further than Legacy does in validation.





On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 9:08 PM, John B. Lisle mailto:leg...@johnlisle.com> > wrote:

Jay,

Please see below...

john.

At 06:59 PM 3/27/2015, Jay Wilpolt wrote:



John

I think we are on the same pageÂ

some thoughts to add.

As both of us maintain somewhat public research sites online, I decided some 
time ago that I did not wish to publish dates that I could not support by some 
type of fact. Yet, as a One Namer, I would find that my family files would have 
actually 100s of people with more or less the same name.

Again another reason why I had to start adding some date "qualifiers" as my own 
distant (5th great) paternal families had names like;
Johan Bernard William Whilpholt
Bernard Wilhelm Henricis  Whilpholt
Johann Wilhelm Henricus Whilpholt
Henricus Willhelm Bernard Whilpholt
Wilhelm Johann Hericus Whilpholt

and often not the exact same name would then be used for their marriage or death
Or like where 8 families with the same surname all lived close by and they all 
had a Maria Anna born between 1850-1870


I agree, but I just do not wish to publish data that I know to be guesses. The 
private dates helps me keep organized without publishing more crap.






I discovered that Legacy has a neat feature that allows you to make a date 
private. For instance when I enter a marriage record for John Stedman and Mary 
Smith that took place in May 1816 and have not (yet) discovered them in a 
census or in other vital records documentation, I will estimate when they were 
born. For John, say 1790. I enter in Legacy [[est 1790]] {I tie "est" to the 
circa date in Legacy}. The privacy brackets around the date mean that index 
view and name list will sort the person correctly, but when I export the 
Gedcom, no date will appear for the birth date.

Personal choice not to keep the dates private, since i dont know what genealogy 
software someone else uses, thaht may not properly handle all the "Blank" info, 
whereas I am pretty sure it will handle fields with data.


I have never seen a problem, remember, I am always explicitly putting in at 
least an "Unknown" death date. Every software product I have looked at handles 
that.





I have seen too many cases of people (myself included before I set this 
standard) having a date like you have of bef. 1882 copied down as 1882 and then 
get perpetuated. Now, I try not to be responsible for introducing too much 
bogus information into the literature.

I can not control how well other "copy down" info, If it says bef 1882 they 
better copy BEFORE 1882.


Again, I prefer to take the risk out of the equation.

The historical way to deal with such items is to say Joe Smith, son of Alfred 
Smith and Ellen Jones. Or some other phrase that talks to their genealogy.

When I am working a family reconstruction, I am always looking for the names of 
parents of the spouses of my target family. And, I will research the spouse 
family more if I start finding surnames that are popping up elsewhere in the 
family. This is my "hidden cousins" dynamic.





When you enter a private date that would otherwise trigger the person as being 
deceased, the person is set to deceased.Â

That is a good feature

This triggers another rant... :-)

I hate to see trees where persons born 400 years ago are listed as living and 
thus made private. This is often caused by some genealogy program or another 
not having a data model that properly handles when an undated person is 
deceased. Consequently, I set a personal standard that anyone whom I believe to 
be deceased, I will enter the death date of "Unknown". Then I do not have to 
depend on the whim of any genealogy program to set the person as deceased.

AGREED AGREED AGREEDÂ Â  not to mention some basic validation tests. when I 
see a parent born in 1880 and their child is born in 1792 I know they are not 
serious about their data


Of course. Or when you look at a FamilySearch or Ancestry tree and you see a 
person father or grandfather in their child list.

The L8 PP Alerts system is wonderful for preventing this -- I get a laff out of 
hearing people talk about turning it off because they are getting too many 
alerts.

I do not add Gedcoms to my research file. If someone contributes a Gedcom, I 
import the Gedcom into Legacy and then rework each person in the file so that 
the data complies with my standards and then append it into my 

Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Persons

[Jay Wilpolt]

John,

For Gedcom validation I recommed

 Genealogica Grafica  http://www.genealogicagrafica.nl/

or try Tim's Bonkersits GREAT!
http://www.mccomberfamily.com/2013/02/bonkers-gedcom-sanity-checker.html




These both go much further than Legacy does in validation.



On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 9:08 PM, John B. Lisle  wrote:

>  Jay,
>
> Please see below...
>
> john.
>
> At 06:59 PM 3/27/2015, Jay Wilpolt wrote:
>
> John
>
> I think we are on the same pageÂ
>
> some thoughts to add.
>
>
>
> *As both of us maintain somewhat public research sites online, I decided
> some time ago that I did not wish to publish dates that I could not support
> by some type of fact. Yet, as a One Namer, I would find that my family
> files would have actually 100s of people with more or less the same name. 
> *Again
> another reason why I had to start adding some date "qualifiers" as my own
> distant (5th great) paternal families had names like;
> Johan Bernard William Whilpholt
> Bernard Wilhelm Henricis  Whilpholt
> Johann Wilhelm Henricus Whilpholt
> Henricus Willhelm Bernard Whilpholt
> Wilhelm Johann Hericus Whilpholt
>
> and often not the exact same name would then be used for their marriage or
> death
> Or like where 8 families with the same surname all lived close by and they
> all had a Maria Anna born between 1850-1870
>
>
> I agree, but I just do not wish to publish data that I know to be guesses.
> The private dates helps me keep organized without publishing more crap.
>
>
>
>
>
> *I discovered that Legacy has a neat feature that allows you to make a
> date private. For instance when I enter a marriage record for John Stedman
> and Mary Smith that took place in May 1816 and have not (yet) discovered
> them in a census or in other vital records documentation, I will estimate
> when they were born. For John, say 1790. I enter in Legacy [[est 1790]] {I
> tie "est" to the circa date in Legacy}. The privacy brackets around the
> date mean that index view and name list will sort the person correctly, but
> when I export the Gedcom, no date will appear for the birth date. *Personal
> choice not to keep the dates private, since i dont know what genealogy
> software someone else uses, thaht may not properly handle all the "Blank"
> info, whereas I am pretty sure it will handle fields with data.
>
>
> I have never seen a problem, remember, I am always explicitly putting in
> at least an "Unknown" death date. Every software product I have looked at
> handles that.
>
>
>
>
> *I have seen too many cases of people (myself included before I set this
> standard) having a date like you have of bef. 1882 copied down as 1882 and
> then get perpetuated. Now, I try not to be responsible for introducing too
> much bogus information into the literature. *I can not control how well
> other "copy down" info, If it says bef 1882 they better copy BEFORE 1882.
>
>
> Again, I prefer to take the risk out of the equation.
>
> The historical way to deal with such items is to say Joe Smith, son of
> Alfred Smith and Ellen Jones. Or some other phrase that talks to their
> genealogy.
>
> When I am working a family reconstruction, I am always looking for the
> names of parents of the spouses of my target family. And, I will research
> the spouse family more if I start finding surnames that are popping up
> elsewhere in the family. This is my "hidden cousins" dynamic.
>
>
>
>
> *When you enter a private date that would otherwise trigger the person as
> being deceased, the person is set to deceased.  *That is a good feature
>
>
>
>
>
> * This triggers another rant... :-) I hate to see trees where persons born
> 400 years ago are listed as living and thus made private. This is often
> caused by some genealogy program or another not having a data model that
> properly handles when an undated person is deceased. Consequently, I set a
> personal standard that anyone whom I believe to be deceased, I will enter
> the death date of "Unknown". Then I do not have to depend on the whim of
> any genealogy program to set the person as deceased. *AGREED AGREED
> AGREEDÂ Â  not to mention some basic validation tests. when I see a
> parent born in 1880 and their child is born in 1792 I know they are not
> serious about their data
>
>
> Of course. Or when you look at a FamilySearch or Ancestry tree and you see
> a person father or grandfather in their child list.
>
> The L8 PP Alerts system is wonderful for preventing this -- I get a laff
> out of hearing people talk about turning it off because they are getting
> too many alerts.
>
> I do not add Gedcoms to my research file. If someone contributes a Gedcom,
> I import the Gedcom into Legacy and then rework each person in the file so
> that the data complies with my standards and then append it into my main
> file, merging data where necessary. IE, the Gedcom was only a file of clues.
>
>
>
>
>
> *I have also found that when recording census data, it is helpful, even
> when I do not have a death date, to 

Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Persons

[BobsTree2-Gmail]

When addressing Mr. Jones or Mr. Smith, I usually say, "Excuse me, SUR.  Re you 
Mister Surname?"

On Mar 28, 2015, at 14:00, Robert57P_gmail  wrote:

> Anyone have a good "hint" that I
> can use to remember that "surname" = "last name" and "given name" =
> "first name"?




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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Persons

[Betty Campbell]

I put in Female or Male.
On Mar 27, 2015 10:25 AM, "Don Quigley"  wrote:

> Some of the recent messages have prompted this more general question I
> have about how to enter “names” for unknown persons in Legacy, particularly
> for persons with no known given or surname.  This situation typically
> arises for a female with no known surname, for whom I have information
> about her parents that I want to record and have in the database when (if)
> I find the missing names.  I also need parents for siblings to be linked,
> even if their surnames are unknown.
>
>
>
> I have always used ??? as the unknown given and/or surname for a person.
> Legacy warns me against doing so, but allows me to do it.  However, if I
> leave both fields blank, Legacy will prevent me from saving the person.
>
>
>
> For me, ??? seems to work well, but I’ve often wondered why does Legacy
> (and other geneaology sources) warn against the use of a questionmark in a
> name?  Are they just referring to the practice of trying to show
> uncertainty about a name – i.e., John Smith?.  I don’t do that.
>
>
>
> Donald Quigley
>
> Escondido, CA
>
> Quigley Doyle Family Tree
>
> http://www.donquigley.net
>
>
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
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> on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com).
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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Persons

[Robert57P_gmail]

I do a slight modification to the below.  I use:
[---?--] unknown first name (given name)
[~--?--] unknown last name (surname)
These are usually followed with [[child of xxx]] or [[wife of xxx]] For
example:
 [---?--][[child of Uriah Patton]]

Adding the info in double brackets allows me to know "where this person
came from" when I'm looking at the index and such, but it treats it as
"private" info and does not print (normally) in reports/charts.  Of
course I can add more info here,such as:
[---?--][[male child of Uriah Patton]]
[~--?--][[son 2 of Pat ??? & Jennifer Taylor]]
[---?--][[spouse & divorcee of Debbie Long]]
  or whatever I want.
So I have the info I want/need, but it does not clutter up reports/charts.

And, yes, I do have some people where I don't know EITHER name, so they
have this in the first name field:
[---?--][[child 1 of Loretta Long]]
And this in the last name field:
[~--?--][[child 1 of Loretta Long]]
Kind of redundant at first glance, and extra typing, but I've found
various different situations (which I don't remember now) where having
it in both fields was very helpful - such as if I'm looking at a list
that only includes last names or something that only includes first names.

I use the tilde (~) in last name field just so the first name and last
name indicators are slightly different so I don't get confused about
which name is missing.  I thought about using
[uln---?---]
[ufn---?---]
for unknown last name and unknown first name - but I just did not like
the looks of that.

On a slightly related note - I'm not heavy into Genealogy, wish I had
more time.  But since I'm not in it on a regular basis I often get
"given name" and "surname" confused/reversed in my old feeble mind.
Does anyone else have this problem?  Anyone have a good "hint" that I
can use to remember that "surname" = "last name" and "given name" =
"first name"?
Is there a way to "tweak" Legacy so it displays field name descriptors
such as: Given(first)and Surname(last)

Bob

On 03/27/2015 15:59, John B. Lisle wrote:
> Don,
>
> One of the your other respondents said "whatever
> floats your boat". I both agree with this
> sentiment and disagree with such a practice.
>
> An important element in treating unknown names is
> that you are consistent within your own data. I
> have seen trees where the user used ?, Unknown, Unk, Lnu all within same tree.
>
> As I shared in a previous message, I invented
> [--?--] as my unknown surname almost 20 years
> ago. I created it to have a consistent unknown
> surname in my data. I wished it to distinctive
> enough so that it would stand out in a report as
> being obviously a placeholder for some unknown
> (or unknowable or non-existent) surname. I also
> wished all people with such a surname to sort
> together at either the top or bottom of the Name
> List or Index View. I did not wish to use a word
> like "Unknown" or "Unk" or "Lnu" or "NN" so there
> could never be confusion about those words being
> a real surname. And ? or ??? just visually did not work for me.
>
> I began using this and posted some trees using
> this option in the mid 1990s and then mentioned
> it in a few RootsWeb posts. About 5 years later,
> an article was written somewhere analyzing what
> people were using in the RootsWeb WorldConnect
> database for unknown surnames and to my surprise
> the author mentioned that my invention was in the
> top 5 in use there and that in her opinion, it
> was technically one of the best choices. That was
> 10 years ago, and I am slowly seeing other
> researchers publish articles using [--?--]. It is
> not a standard, and I doubt that it would ever be, but it is my standard.
>
> Further, I set a few other standards for
> recording data. One was that I would never record
> a spouseless relationship. All children have to
> have a Mommy and Daddy, even if Daddy is some
> anonymous (for now :) ) sperm donor. I decided
> that I would always create an individual with an
> unknown name to fill in that position.
>
> --> A corollary reason I did this was in part I
> did not like how Gedcom imports and exports by
> some vendors treated these relationship and that
> in some cases the genealogy got screwed up.
> Making sure that you always have a person in that
> missing slot eliminates that possibility of error.
>
> I also set a personal standard that all people
> would have a given name and a surname. Gedcom
> again motivated this. Just last week I received a
> Gedcom from a person in New Zealand from a family
> file created with Family Tree Maker. Two wives
> were only entered with their first names. When
> the Gedcom was imported into Legacy, those first
> names became surnames. The fault lay in the way FTM exported the Gedcom.
>
> However, I first saw this type of problem in the
> 1990s so this is not a new problem, but, if a
> user is not careful, they could be perpetuating
> errors. Again, to minimize risk of errors, I
> established my own standard that all individuals
> would

Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Persons

[John B. Lisle]

Cathy,

1/ Let me say that I include a death date for
people whom I believe to have died out of a
personal preference. We have chatted about this
in the past, and I think my way is safer. For
instance, I get to set people as deceased who
died in the 20th century whom I cannot find
explicit death information, but know, based on
circumstantial evidence, that they are most likely deceased.

I am sure that if your work is done entirely
within the Legacy Bubble, you are ok. Let us just
say that I am not so trusting.

2/ Unlike you and most of the experienced
genealogy community, I do display the names of
known living people on my web sites. I explicitly
state this in my privacy policy:

http://www.davidsongenealogy.com/family1/extensions/privacy.php

If I am given information about living people
from a family member and they ask me to hide the
living people, I will comply by making the
specific people invisible in Legacy. I figure, if
I am getting all of the details of a family, I do
not need some new visitor to fill in the details.

The US has more explicit data available about
living people than some other countries, but I am
always surprised about what I can learn about
living people, even from several supposedly high
privacy countries like Australia.

john.

At 09:00 PM 3/27/2015, Cathy Pinner wrote:
>I agree with John about how easily date
>modifiers get lost. For a start they don't show
>in many indexes. So I also put dates in privacy brackets.
>
>However, in Legacy I don't feel the need to put
>something in the Death date to trigger that the person has died.
>
>I periodically run the Advanced Set Living Tool
>- especially before exporting a Gedcom to upload to Ancestry.
>
>For a Gedcom for Ancestry I also omit Living
>people altogether. If you really want the living private, don't show them.
>
>Cathy
>
>Jay Wilpolt wrote:
>>
>>John
>>
>>I think we are on the same page
>>
>>some thoughts to add.
>>
>>/As both of us maintain somewhat public research sites online, I
>>decided some time ago that I did not wish to publish dates that I
>>could not support by some type of fact. Yet, as
>>a One Namer, I would < BR> find that my family
>>files would have actually 100s of people with more
>>or less the same name.
>>
>>/Again another reason why I had to start adding some date "qualifiers"
>>as my own distant (5th great) paternal families had names like;
>>Johan Bernard William Whilpholt
>>Bernard Wilhelm Henricis  Whilpholt
>>Johann Wilhelm Henricus Whilpholt
>>Henricus Willhelm Bernard Whilpholt
>>Wilhelm Johann Hericus Whilpholt
>>
>>and often not the exact same name would then be used for their
>>marriage or death/
>>/
>>Or like where 8 families with the same surname all lived close by and
>>they all had a Maria Anna born between 1850-1870
>>
>>
>>/I discovered that Legacy has a neat feature that allows you to make a
>>date private. For instance when I enter a marriage record for John
>>Stedman and Mary Smith that took place in May 1816 and have not (yet)
>>discovered them in a census or in other vital records documentation, I
>>will estimate when they were born. For John, say 1790. I enter in
>>Legacy [[est 1790]] {I tie "est" to the circa date in Legacy}. The
>>privacy brackets around the date mean that index view and name list
>>will sort the person correctly, but when I export the Gedcom, no date
>>will appear for the birth date.
>>
>>/
>>Personal choice not to keep the dates private, since i dont know what
>>genealogy software someone else uses, thaht may not properly handle
>>all the "Blank" info, whereas I am pretty sure it will handle fields
>>with data. /
>>/
>>/
>>I have seen too many cases of people (myself included before I set
>>this standard) having a date like you have of bef. 1882 copied down as
>>1882 and then get perpetuated. Now, I try not to be responsible for
>>introducing too much bogus information into the literature.
>>
>>/
>>I can not control how well other "copy down" info, If it says bef 1882
>>they better copy BEFORE 1882 . /
>>
>>/
>>/
>>When you enter a private date that would otherwise trigger the person
>>as being deceased, the person is set to deceased.
>>
>>/
>>That is a good feature/
>>/
>>/
>>This triggers another rant... :-)
>>
>>I hate to see trees where persons born 400 years ago are listed as
>>living and thus made private. This is often caused by some genealogy
>>program or another not having a data model that properly handles when
>>an undated person is deceased. Consequently, I set a personal standard
>>that anyone whom I believe to be deceased, I will enter the death date
>>of "Unknown". Then I do not have to depend on the whim of any
>>genealogy program to set the person as deceased.
>>
>>/
>>AGREED AGREED AGREED   not to mention some basic validation tests.
>>when I see a parent born in 1880 and their child is born in 1792 I
>>know they are not serious about their data/
>>/
>>/
>>
>>I have also fou nd that when recording census data, it is helpful, even
>

Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Persons

[John B. Lisle]

Jay,
Please see below...
john.
At 06:59 PM 3/27/2015, Jay Wilpolt wrote:
John 
I think we are on the same page  
some thoughts to add.
As both of us maintain somewhat public research sites online, I
decided some time ago that I did not wish to publish dates that I could
not support by some type of fact. Yet, as a One Namer, I would find that
my family files would have actually 100s of people with more or less the
same name. 
Again another reason why I had to start adding some date
"qualifiers" as my own distant (5th great) paternal families
had names like;
Johan Bernard William Whilpholt
Bernard Wilhelm Henricis  Whilpholt
Johann Wilhelm Henricus Whilpholt
Henricus Willhelm Bernard Whilpholt
Wilhelm Johann Hericus Whilpholt
and often not the exact same name would then be used for their marriage
or death
Or like where 8 families with the same surname all lived close by and
they all had a Maria Anna born between 1850-1870 
I agree, but I just do not wish to publish data that I know to be
guesses. The private dates helps me keep organized without publishing
more crap.

I discovered that Legacy has
a neat feature that allows you to make a date private. For instance when
I enter a marriage record for John Stedman and Mary Smith that took place
in May 1816 and have not (yet) discovered them in a census or in other
vital records documentation, I will estimate when they were born. For
John, say 1790. I enter in Legacy [[est 1790]] {I tie "est" to
the circa date in Legacy}. The privacy brackets around the date mean that
index view and name list will sort the person correctly, but when I
export the Gedcom, no date will appear for the birth date.

Personal choice not to keep the dates private, since i dont know what
genealogy software someone else uses, thaht may not properly handle all
the "Blank" info, whereas I am pretty sure it will handle
fields with data. 
I have never seen a problem, remember, I am always explicitly putting in
at least an "Unknown" death date. Every software product I have
looked at handles that.

I have seen too many cases of
people (myself included before I set this standard) having a date like
you have of bef. 1882 copied down as 1882 and then get perpetuated. Now,
I try not to be responsible for introducing too much bogus information
into the literature.
I can not control how well other "copy down" info, If it
says bef 1882 they better copy BEFORE 1882. 
Again, I prefer to take the risk out of the equation.
The historical way to deal with such items is to say Joe Smith, son of
Alfred Smith and Ellen Jones. Or some other phrase that talks to their
genealogy. 
When I am working a family reconstruction, I am always looking for the
names of parents of the spouses of my target family. And, I will research
the spouse family more if I start finding surnames that are popping up
elsewhere in the family. This is my "hidden cousins"
dynamic.

When you enter a private date
that would otherwise trigger the person as being deceased, the person is
set to deceased.  
That is a good feature
This triggers another rant... :-)
I hate to see trees where persons born 400 years ago are listed as living
and thus made private. This is often caused by some genealogy program or
another not having a data model that properly handles when an undated
person is deceased. Consequently, I set a personal standard that anyone
whom I believe to be deceased, I will enter the death date of
"Unknown". Then I do not have to depend on the whim of any
genealogy program to set the person as deceased. 
AGREED AGREED AGREED   not to mention some basic validation
tests. when I see a parent born in 1880 and their child is born in
1792 I know they are not serious about their data
Of course. Or when you look at a FamilySearch or Ancestry tree and you
see a person father or grandfather in their child list.
The L8 PP Alerts system is wonderful for preventing this -- I get a laff
out of hearing people talk about turning it off because they are getting
too many alerts. 
I do not add Gedcoms to my research file. If someone contributes a
Gedcom, I import the Gedcom into Legacy and then rework each person in
the file so that the data complies with my standards and then append it
into my main file, merging data where necessary. IE, the Gedcom was only
a file of clues.

I have also found that when
recording census data, it is helpful, even when I do not have a death
date, to record a death date as "after 1860" if the 1860 census
was last that I found him or her recorded. I will also make that a
between date if, say, I find the person is the 1860 census but I learn in
the 1880 or 1900 census or some other record that the person is deceased:
"bet. 1860 and 1880".
I do know this standard sets up the possibility of someone recording the
after date as just a date. I am likely to make that a private date as a
result. My concern then is that the deceased person does not show a death
date .

But as another user stated, the best way is w

Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Persons

[Cathy Pinner]

I agree with John about how easily date modifiers get lost. For a start
they don't show in many indexes. So I also put dates in privacy brackets.

However, in Legacy I don't feel the need to put something in the Death
date to trigger that the person has died.

I periodically run the Advanced Set Living Tool - especially before
exporting a Gedcom to upload to Ancestry.

For a Gedcom for Ancestry I also omit Living people altogether. If you
really want the living private, don't show them.

Cathy

Jay Wilpolt wrote:
>
> John
>
> I think we are on the same page
>
> some thoughts to add.
>
> /As both of us maintain somewhat public research sites online, I
> decided some time ago that I did not wish to publish dates that I
> could not support by some type of fact. Yet, as a One Namer, I would
> find that my family files would have actually 100s of people with more
> or less the same name.
>
> /Again another reason why I had to start adding some date "qualifiers"
> as my own distant (5th great) paternal families had names like;
> Johan Bernard William Whilpholt
> Bernard Wilhelm Henricis Whilpholt
> Johann Wilhelm Henricus Whilpholt
> Henricus Willhelm Bernard Whilpholt
> Wilhelm Johann Hericus Whilpholt
>
> and often not the exact same name would then be used for their
> marriage or death/
> /
> Or like where 8 families with the same surname all lived close by and
> they all had a Maria Anna born between 1850-1870
>
>
> /I discovered that Legacy has a neat feature that allows you to make a
> date private. For instance when I enter a marriage record for John
> Stedman and Mary Smith that took place in May 1816 and have not (yet)
> discovered them in a census or in other vital records documentation, I
> will estimate when they were born. For John, say 1790. I enter in
> Legacy [[est 1790]] {I tie "est" to the circa date in Legacy}. The
> privacy brackets around the date mean that index view and name list
> will sort the person correctly, but when I export the Gedcom, no date
> will appear for the birth date.
>
> /
> Personal choice not to keep the dates private, since i dont know what
> genealogy software someone else uses, thaht may not properly handle
> all the "Blank" info, whereas I am pretty sure it will handle fields
> with data. /
> /
> /
> I have seen too many cases of people (myself included before I set
> this standard) having a date like you have of bef. 1882 copied down as
> 1882 and then get perpetuated. Now, I try not to be responsible for
> introducing too much bogus information into the literature.
>
> /
> I can not control how well other "copy down" info, If it says bef 1882
> they better copy BEFORE 1882. /
>
> /
> /
> When you enter a private date that would otherwise trigger the person
> as being deceased, the person is set to deceased.
>
> /
> That is a good feature/
> /
> /
> This triggers another rant... :-)
>
> I hate to see trees where persons born 400 years ago are listed as
> living and thus made private. This is often caused by some genealogy
> program or another not having a data model that properly handles when
> an undated person is deceased. Consequently, I set a personal standard
> that anyone whom I believe to be deceased, I will enter the death date
> of "Unknown". Then I do not have to depend on the whim of any
> genealogy program to set the person as deceased.
>
> /
> AGREED AGREED AGREED not to mention some basic validation tests.
> when I see a parent born in 1880 and their child is born in 1792 I
> know they are not serious about their data/
> /
> /
>
> I have also found that when recording census data, it is helpful, even
> when I do not have a death date, to record a death date as "after
> 1860" if the 1860 census was last that I found him or her recorded. I
> will also make that a between date if, say, I find the person is the
> 1860 census but I learn in the 1880 or 1900 census or some other
> record that the person is deceased: "bet. 1860 and 1880".
>
> I do know this standard sets up the possibility of someone recording
> the after date as just a date. I am likely to make that a private date
> as a result. My concern then is that the deceased person does not show
> a death date ./
>
>
> But as another user stated, the best way is whatever works for YOU..
>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 1:33 PM, John B. Lisle  > wrote:
>
> Jay,
>
> We can agree to disagree about your unknown name naming
> conventions, but I did wish to respond to some of your date usage.
>
> As both of us maintain somewhat public research sites online, I
> decided some time ago that I did not wish to publish dates that I
> could not support by some type of fact. Yet, as a One Namer, I
> would find that my family files would have actually 100s of people
> with more or less the same name.
>
> I discovered that Legacy has a neat feature that allows you to
> make a date private. For instance when I enter a marriage record
> for John Stedman and Mary Smith that took p

Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Persons

[Jay Wilpolt]

John

I think we are on the same page

some thoughts to add.



*As both of us maintain somewhat public research sites online, I decided
some time ago that I did not wish to publish dates that I could not support
by some type of fact. Yet, as a One Namer, I would find that my family
files would have actually 100s of people with more or less the same
name. *Again
another reason why I had to start adding some date "qualifiers" as my own
distant (5th great) paternal families had names like;
Johan Bernard William Whilpholt
Bernard Wilhelm Henricis  Whilpholt
Johann Wilhelm Henricus Whilpholt
Henricus Willhelm Bernard Whilpholt
Wilhelm Johann Hericus Whilpholt

and often not the exact same name would then be used for their marriage or
death
Or like where 8 families with the same surname all lived close by and they
all had a Maria Anna born between 1850-1870




*I discovered that Legacy has a neat feature that allows you to make a date
private. For instance when I enter a marriage record for John Stedman and
Mary Smith that took place in May 1816 and have not (yet) discovered them
in a census or in other vital records documentation, I will estimate when
they were born. For John, say 1790. I enter in Legacy [[est 1790]] {I tie
"est" to the circa date in Legacy}. The privacy brackets around the date
mean that index view and name list will sort the person correctly, but when
I export the Gedcom, no date will appear for the birth date.*
Personal choice not to keep the dates private, since i dont know what
genealogy software someone else uses, thaht may not properly handle all the
"Blank" info, whereas I am pretty sure it will handle fields with data.



* I have seen too many cases of people (myself included before I set this
standard) having a date like you have of bef. 1882 copied down as 1882 and
then get perpetuated. Now, I try not to be responsible for introducing too
much bogus information into the literature.*
I can not control how well other "copy down" info, If it says bef 1882 they
better copy BEFORE 1882.




* When you enter a private date that would otherwise trigger the person as
being deceased, the person is set to deceased.  *
That is a good feature





* This triggers another rant... :-) I hate to see trees where persons born
400 years ago are listed as living and thus made private. This is often
caused by some genealogy program or another not having a data model that
properly handles when an undated person is deceased. Consequently, I set a
personal standard that anyone whom I believe to be deceased, I will enter
the death date of "Unknown". Then I do not have to depend on the whim of
any genealogy program to set the person as deceased. *
AGREED AGREED AGREED   not to mention some basic validation tests. when
I see a parent born in 1880 and their child is born in 1792 I know they are
not serious about their data




* I have also found that when recording census data, it is helpful, even
when I do not have a death date, to record a death date as "after 1860" if
the 1860 census was last that I found him or her recorded. I will also make
that a between date if, say, I find the person is the 1860 census but I
learn in the 1880 or 1900 census or some other record that the person is
deceased: "bet. 1860 and 1880". I do know this standard sets up the
possibility of someone recording the after date as just a date. I am likely
to make that a private date as a result. My concern then is that the
deceased person does not show a death date .*


But as another user stated, the best way is whatever works for YOU..

On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 1:33 PM, John B. Lisle  wrote:

>  Jay,
>
> We can agree to disagree about your unknown name naming conventions, but I
> did wish to respond to some of your date usage.
>
> As both of us maintain somewhat public research sites online, I decided
> some time ago that I did not wish to publish dates that I could not support
> by some type of fact. Yet, as a One Namer, I would find that my family
> files would have actually 100s of people with more or less the same name.
>
> I discovered that Legacy has a neat feature that allows you to make a date
> private. For instance when I enter a marriage record for John Stedman and
> Mary Smith that took place in May 1816 and have not (yet) discovered them
> in a census or in other vital records documentation, I will estimate when
> they were born. For John, say 1790. I enter in Legacy [[est 1790]] {I tie
> "est" to the circa date in Legacy}. The privacy brackets around the date
> mean that index view and name list will sort the person correctly, but when
> I export the Gedcom, no date will appear for the birth date.
>
> I have seen too many cases of people (myself included before I set this
> standard) having a date like you have of bef. 1882 copied down as 1882 and
> then get perpetuated. Now, I try not to be responsible for introducing too
> much bogus information into the literature.
>
> When you enter a private date 

Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Persons

[John B. Lisle]

Jay,
We can agree to disagree about your unknown name naming conventions, but
I did wish to respond to some of your date usage.
As both of us maintain somewhat public research sites online, I decided
some time ago that I did not wish to publish dates that I could not
support by some type of fact. Yet, as a One Namer, I would find that my
family files would have actually 100s of people with more or less the
same name. 
I discovered that Legacy has a neat feature that allows you to make a
date private. For instance when I enter a marriage record for John
Stedman and Mary Smith that took place in May 1816 and have not (yet)
discovered them in a census or in other vital records documentation, I
will estimate when they were born. For John, say 1790. I enter in Legacy
[[est 1790]] {I tie "est" to the circa date in Legacy}. The
privacy brackets around the date mean that index view and name list will
sort the person correctly, but when I export the Gedcom, no date will
appear for the birth date.
I have seen too many cases of people (myself included before I set this
standard) having a date like you have of bef. 1882 copied down as 1882
and then get perpetuated. Now, I try not to be responsible for
introducing too much bogus information into the literature.
When you enter a private date that would otherwise trigger the person as
being deceased, the person is set to deceased.
This triggers another rant... :-)
I hate to see trees where persons born 400 years ago are listed as living
and thus made private. This is often caused by some genealogy program or
another not having a data model that properly handles when an undated
person is deceased. Consequently, I set a personal standard that anyone
whom I believe to be deceased, I will enter the death date of
"Unknown". Then I do not have to depend on the whim of any
genealogy program to set the person as deceased. 
I have also found that when recording census data, it is helpful, even
when I do not have a death date, to record a death date as "after
1860" if the 1860 census was last that I found him or her recorded.
I will also make that a between date if, say, I find the person is the
1860 census but I learn in the 1880 or 1900 census or some other record
that the person is deceased: "bet. 1860 and 1880".
I do know this standard sets up the possibility of someone recording the
after date as just a date. I am likely to make that a private date as a
result. My concern then is that the deceased person does not show a death
date ...
Since I do not permit Gedcoms to be downloaded from my TNG site, I am not
as not as worried about this. But it is a concern.
john.
At 03:29 PM 3/27/2015, Jay Wilpolt wrote:
Don, 
I cant answer the question as to why Legacy does the things it does as
far as name conventions.
But I have a large database of almost 250,000. 
The problems come most often because of exchanging gedcoms where
importing and exporting data doesnt always end up in the right place
causing errors.
Wherever I can I place a name and a date to help define the person

I use UnknownM  and UnknownF for given names and Unknown as a
surname 
You can tell Legacy to exclude specific names on the potential problems
list. 
I also add in usually some kind of date definer. 
Say as you mentioned as married females parents and siblings.
Let say the lady was born in 1900 and married in 1918. 
I would add her parents as UnknownM Unknown born Bef 1882 and married Bef
1900 to UnknownF Unknown also born Bef 1882
and under the parents add the siblings like Margaret Unknown born 1915
and John Unknown born 1918
If you were to leave the default Legacy of just no names but a defacto
(unknown and unknown) couple that connected to the Margaret and John
siblings... because there are no dates for the parents they would export
in any gedcom as LIVING persons. 
With dates added Legacy has a better chance on not selecting them when
searching for duplicates (If I didnt have all these (placeholders) my
duplicate search would have over 1,000,000 potentials to reviewlol)


so my general rules of thumb for date estimations are;
abt. (about) is used whenever the date is NOT exact OR complete; Dec 2008
is listed as "abt. Dec 2008" 
aft. (after) is used for birth dates and estimates the birth took place
after the marriage of the parents. 
aft. (after) used in birth dates estimates the birth took place after the
parent was 18 years of age. 
aft. (after) used in marriage dates estimates the couple were married
after the eldest spouse was at least 18 years of age. 
bef. (before) used in marriages dates estimates a couple were married
before the date of birth of any children. 
bef. (before) used in death dates estimates a person died before the age
of 100. 
bet. (between) used in birth dates estimates a person was born between a
range of dates when they are not listed on a census and are listed on the
next census. 
bet. (between) used in marriage dates estimates a range of dates from aft
18 years of age 

Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Persons

[John B. Lisle]

Don,

One of the your other respondents said "whatever
floats your boat". I both agree with this
sentiment and disagree with such a practice.

An important element in treating unknown names is
that you are consistent within your own data. I
have seen trees where the user used ?, Unknown, Unk, Lnu all within same tree.

As I shared in a previous message, I invented
[--?--] as my unknown surname almost 20 years
ago. I created it to have a consistent unknown
surname in my data. I wished it to distinctive
enough so that it would stand out in a report as
being obviously a placeholder for some unknown
(or unknowable or non-existent) surname. I also
wished all people with such a surname to sort
together at either the top or bottom of the Name
List or Index View. I did not wish to use a word
like "Unknown" or "Unk" or "Lnu" or "NN" so there
could never be confusion about those words being
a real surname. And ? or ??? just visually did not work for me.

I began using this and posted some trees using
this option in the mid 1990s and then mentioned
it in a few RootsWeb posts. About 5 years later,
an article was written somewhere analyzing what
people were using in the RootsWeb WorldConnect
database for unknown surnames and to my surprise
the author mentioned that my invention was in the
top 5 in use there and that in her opinion, it
was technically one of the best choices. That was
10 years ago, and I am slowly seeing other
researchers publish articles using [--?--]. It is
not a standard, and I doubt that it would ever be, but it is my standard.

Further, I set a few other standards for
recording data. One was that I would never record
a spouseless relationship. All children have to
have a Mommy and Daddy, even if Daddy is some
anonymous (for now :) ) sperm donor. I decided
that I would always create an individual with an
unknown name to fill in that position.

--> A corollary reason I did this was in part I
did not like how Gedcom imports and exports by
some vendors treated these relationship and that
in some cases the genealogy got screwed up.
Making sure that you always have a person in that
missing slot eliminates that possibility of error.

I also set a personal standard that all people
would have a given name and a surname. Gedcom
again motivated this. Just last week I received a
Gedcom from a person in New Zealand from a family
file created with Family Tree Maker. Two wives
were only entered with their first names. When
the Gedcom was imported into Legacy, those first
names became surnames. The fault lay in the way FTM exported the Gedcom.

However, I first saw this type of problem in the
1990s so this is not a new problem, but, if a
user is not careful, they could be perpetuating
errors. Again, to minimize risk of errors, I
established my own standard that all individuals
would have a given name and a surname.

I have already described the unknown surname as
[--?--]. What I did with an unknown given name is
best described as a desire to impart as much data
in the unknown given name. I could just continue
to use [--?--] (as some folks do), but then a
viewer seeing the [--?--] would not automatically know it was a surname.

I established these standards: First, if I knew
the gender of the individual, the unknown given
name should reflect that gender. Second, if the
given name was unknown but the person was a child
of a couple, the name would reflect being a
child; if the unknown name was because of a
marriage, it would better reflect that. So, I use
"Mister" and "Miss" for unknown given names for
marriage partners and "Son" and "Daughter" for
children. If the child's gender is not
documented, I will use "Child" or "Infant", the
latter when I have reasonable evidence the child
was stillborn or died very young.

Legacy 8, in its great wisdom, created a tool so
that when a user has such standards, the PP Alert
flag will be able to ignore them. In your My
Documents/_AppData folder, you can add a text
file called UnknownName.txt. In this you can
document what you are using for such unknown
names. (See the Help pages on PP Alerts to see
how to construct such a file). This is what mine looks like:

Miss Mister Daughter Son Child Infant
[--?--]

OK?

john.


At 01:23 PM 3/27/2015, Don Quigley wrote:
>Some of the recent messages have prompted this
>more general question I have about how to enter
>“names” for unknown persons in Legacy,
>particularly for persons with no known given or
>surname.  This situation typically arises for a
>female with no known surname, for whom I have
>information about her parents that I want to
>record and have in the database when (if) I find
>the missing names.  I also need parents for
>siblings to be linked, even if their surnames are unknown.
>
>I have always used ??? as the unknown given
>and/or surname for a person.  Legacy warns me
>against doing so, but allows me to do
>it.  However, if I leave both fields blank,
>Legacy will prevent me from saving the person.
>
>For me, ??? seems to 

Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Persons

[Jay Wilpolt]

Don,

I cant answer the question as to why Legacy does the things it does as far
as name conventions.

But I have a large database of almost 250,000.
The problems come most often because of exchanging gedcoms where importing
and exporting data doesnt always end up in the right place causing errors.

Wherever I can I place a name and a date to help define the person

I use UnknownM  and UnknownF for given names and Unknown as a surname

You can tell Legacy to exclude specific names on the potential problems
list.

I also add in usually some kind of date definer.

Say as you mentioned as married females parents and siblings.
Let say the lady was born in 1900 and married in 1918.

I would add her parents as UnknownM Unknown born Bef 1882 and married Bef
1900 to UnknownF Unknown also born Bef 1882
and under the parents add the siblings like Margaret Unknown born 1915 and
John Unknown born 1918

If you were to leave the default Legacy of just no names but a defacto
(unknown and unknown) couple that connected to the Margaret and John
siblings... because there are no dates for the parents they would export in
any gedcom as LIVING persons.

With dates added Legacy has a better chance on not selecting them when
searching for duplicates (If I didnt have all these (placeholders) my
duplicate search would have over 1,000,000 potentials to reviewlol)


so my general rules of thumb for date estimations are;

abt. (about) is used whenever the date is NOT exact OR complete; Dec 2008
is listed as "abt. Dec 2008"
aft. (after) is used for birth dates and estimates the birth took place
after the marriage of the parents.
aft. (after) used in birth dates estimates the birth took place after the
parent was 18 years of age.
aft. (after) used in marriage dates estimates the couple were married after
the eldest spouse was at least 18 years of age.
bef. (before) used in marriages dates estimates a couple were married
before the date of birth of any children.
bef. (before) used in death dates estimates a person died before the age of
100.
bet. (between) used in birth dates estimates a person was born between a
range of dates when they are not listed on a census and are listed on the
next census.
bet. (between) used in marriage dates estimates a range of dates from aft
18 years of age of the eldest spouse to some other date information from
another source.
cir. (circa) used in birth dates estimates a spouses birth date is close to
the same year as their spouse and is used only when no other estimated
dates can be determined.

Yes, there will be people you find that actual date falls outside of these
generalizations, (like the 3/10ths of 1 % of persons that live to be over
100 in my datafile) that is an acceptable range for error.


Hope this helps

Jay







On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 10:23 AM, Don Quigley  wrote:

> Some of the recent messages have prompted this more general question I
> have about how to enter “names” for unknown persons in Legacy, particularly
> for persons with no known given or surname.  This situation typically
> arises for a female with no known surname, for whom I have information
> about her parents that I want to record and have in the database when (if)
> I find the missing names.  I also need parents for siblings to be linked,
> even if their surnames are unknown.
>
>
>
> I have always used ??? as the unknown given and/or surname for a person.
> Legacy warns me against doing so, but allows me to do it.  However, if I
> leave both fields blank, Legacy will prevent me from saving the person.
>
>
>
> For me, ??? seems to work well, but I’ve often wondered why does Legacy
> (and other geneaology sources) warn against the use of a questionmark in a
> name?  Are they just referring to the practice of trying to show
> uncertainty about a name – i.e., John Smith?.  I don’t do that.
>
>
>
> Donald Quigley
>
> Escondido, CA
>
> Quigley Doyle Family Tree
>
> http://www.donquigley.net
>
>
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
> http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
> Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/
> Online technical support: http://support.legacyfamilytree.com
> Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and
> on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com).
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RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown Persons

[CE WOOD]

Many of my individuals are from the mediaeval and earlier periods when surnames 
did not exist. They were often invented by historians, such as "Plantagenet". 
Legacy makes it simple to find those without surnames.

"Godgifu" had no surname, but was of Wessex, so I have given name "Godgifu of" 
and use her place "Wessex" as surname. Doing it that way also allows me to find 
all "Wessex" individuals (Eadgyth, Eafa, Eoppa, Cynric, et al.)

Given names is easy too. To show children as siblings, I have many such as 
"Father of François II & Charles de".

When it is known that a daughter of a known individual married another known 
individual, but the name of the daughter is unknown (very common), I have  
"many such as "Daughter  of Galindo Áznarez I de".


Using these names instead of question marks makes it simple to know who the 
person is in the Index or Name List.


And yes, because "de" means "of", it is never part of the surname. There are a 
few times when, much later, it was incorporated into the surname, for example, 
"de la Warre" became "Delaware", but that is rare.


CE

From: dwquig...@cox.net
To: legacyusergroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: [LegacyUG] Unknown Persons
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 10:23:43 -0700

Some of the recent messages have prompted this more general question I have 
about how to enter “names” for unknown persons in Legacy, particularly for 
persons with no known given or surname.  This situation typically arises for a 
female with no known surname, for whom I have information about her parents 
that I want to record and have in the database when (if) I find the missing 
names.  I also need parents for siblings to be linked, even if their surnames 
are unknown. I have always used ??? as the unknown given and/or surname for a 
person.  Legacy warns me against doing so, but allows me to do it.  However, if 
I leave both fields blank, Legacy will prevent me from saving the person. For 
me, ??? seems to work well, but I’ve often wondered why does Legacy (and other 
geneaology sources) warn against the use of a questionmark in a name?  Are they 
just referring to the practice of trying to show uncertainty about a name – 
i.e., John Smith?.  I don’t do that. Donald QuigleyEscondido, CAQuigley Doyle 
Family Treehttp://www.donquigley.net



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RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown Persons

[BARTON LEWIS]

I use the old "LNU" (last name unknown), which groups them all in the
index in alphabetical order by last name/first name. 
 
Barton

 
 
 
On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 01:23 PM, Don Quigley wrote:
 
 

Some of the recent messages have prompted this more general question I
have about how to enter “names” for unknown persons in Legacy,
particularly for persons with no known given or surname.  This situation
typically arises for a female with no known surname, for whom I have
information about her parents that I want to record and have in the
database when (if) I find the missing names.  I also need parents for
siblings to be linked, even if their surnames are unknown.
 
I have always used ??? as the unknown given and/or surname for a
person.  Legacy warns me against doing so, but allows me to do it. 
However, if I leave both fields blank, Legacy will prevent me from
saving the person.
 
For me, ??? seems to work well, but I’ve often wondered why does Legacy
(and other geneaology sources) warn against the use of a questionmark in
a name?  Are they just referring to the practice of trying to show
uncertainty about a name – i.e., John Smith?.  I don’t do that.
 
Donald Quigley
Escondido, CA
Quigley Doyle Family Tree
http://www.donquigley.net
 


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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Persons

[MikeFry]

On 2015/03/27 19:23 PM, Don Quigley wrote:

> For me, ??? seems to work well, but I’ve often wondered why does Legacy (and
> other geneaology sources) warn against the use of a questionmark in a name?  
> Are
> they just referring to the practice of trying to show uncertainty about a 
> name –
> i.e., John Smith?.  I don’t do that.

There is no standard or accepted practice. Whatever floats your boat!

--
Regards,
Mike Fry (Jhb)




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[LegacyUG] Unknown Persons

[Don Quigley]

Some of the recent messages have prompted this more general question I have
about how to enter "names" for unknown persons in Legacy, particularly for
persons with no known given or surname.  This situation typically arises for
a female with no known surname, for whom I have information about her
parents that I want to record and have in the database when (if) I find the
missing names.  I also need parents for siblings to be linked, even if their
surnames are unknown.



I have always used ??? as the unknown given and/or surname for a person.
Legacy warns me against doing so, but allows me to do it.  However, if I
leave both fields blank, Legacy will prevent me from saving the person.



For me, ??? seems to work well, but I've often wondered why does Legacy (and
other geneaology sources) warn against the use of a questionmark in a name?
Are they just referring to the practice of trying to show uncertainty about
a name - i.e., John Smith?.  I don't do that.



Donald Quigley

Escondido, CA

Quigley Doyle Family Tree

http://www.donquigley.net







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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Maiden names (Was: When to use est and when to use abt)

[Bryan Pratt]

Just a further addition to this: If you bracket (outside) on the surname and 
you generate a (Pedigree) webpage from Legacy for a website it makes the 
bracket surname a new name in the lists.

So my (Firstname box) “Mary (spouse of Henry” (Second name box) “Pickett)”

becomes in the lists “Pickett), Mary spouse of Henry”

No problem if you don’t do websites. Legacy doesn’t do it in its own name list.

I like the idea, so have just put the second bracket outside, in this case, 
Henry.




Bryan

Chch NZ


Sent from Windows Mail





From: David Abernathy
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎January‎ ‎7‎, ‎2014 ‎6‎:‎07‎ ‎AM
To: Legacy






I do something that is similar

Mary ? (Wife of George Smith)

I also use a similar format for unknown husbands and parents

? Smith (Husband of Mary Jones)

? Smith (Father of Mary Smith)






Thanks,

David C Abernathy

Email disclaimers



This message represents the official view of the voices in my head.



http://www.SchmeckAbernathy.com

== All outgoing and incoming mail is scanned by F-Prot Antivirus  ==





From: Karen Blackmore [mailto:stk...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 7:35 AM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Maiden names (Was: When to use est and when to 
use abt)





Since I nad too many women whose names were Mary, Elizabeth, and Catherine, I 
came up with this method.





With an unknown woman's surname I put her first name in the appropriate place 
followed by


(sp of [husband's first name or initial] and then in the surname  box I put 
[husband's surname])


So, the () are in two different spaces.  I believe you'll find that it is then 
found in the appropriate surname but it's obvious that it's not hers.





Perhaps this will show as an example:


Mary (sp of George


Smith)





Good luck.


Karen










On Monday, January 6, 2014 2:57 AM, Kathy Thompson  wrote:





I use [---?---] for an unknown surname regardless of gender.


The beauty of Legacy is that I can have in Index view "Show Alternate Names" or 
"Show Married Names" activated and so my "Mary [---?---]" will appear in the 
list under her married name and I don't have to go searching too far for her.





On 6 January 2014 19:34, David Newton  wrote:

Agreed but it can be difficult when you don't know the maiden name. I
started by leaving it blank and then ended up with a collection of
forenames at the front of my index. So I now go with the married surname
and a title suffix of spouse. These have the advantage of showing in the
index in a more appropriate place and also it is easy to produce a list
by searching for suffix "spouse"

On 06/01/2014 09:21, Jay 1FamilyTree wrote:
> SNIP
> And everyone PLEASE stop putting a womans married name in the surname
> box. her surname is/was her maiden name.
> When gedcoms are passed on or info taken from a source that has done
> that I diligently verify it only to find 98% are in fact having their
> married name entered in the surname box.
>SNIP

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RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown Maiden names (Was: When to use est and when to use abt)

[David Abernathy]

I do something that is similar

Mary ? (Wife of George Smith)

I also use a similar format for unknown husbands and parents

? Smith (Husband of Mary Jones)

? Smith (Father of Mary Smith)





Thanks,

David C Abernathy

Email disclaimers



This message represents the official view of the voices in my head.



http://www.SchmeckAbernathy.com

== All outgoing and incoming mail is scanned by F-Prot Antivirus  ==



From: Karen Blackmore [mailto:stk...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 7:35 AM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Maiden names (Was: When to use est and when to 
use abt)



Since I nad too many women whose names were Mary, Elizabeth, and Catherine, I 
came up with this method.



With an unknown woman's surname I put her first name in the appropriate place 
followed by

(sp of [husband's first name or initial] and then in the surname  box I put 
[husband's surname])

So, the () are in two different spaces.  I believe you'll find that it is then 
found in the appropriate surname but it's obvious that it's not hers.



Perhaps this will show as an example:

Mary (sp of George

Smith)



Good luck.

Karen





On Monday, January 6, 2014 2:57 AM, Kathy Thompson  wrote:

I use [---?---] for an unknown surname regardless of gender.

The beauty of Legacy is that I can have in Index view "Show Alternate Names" or 
"Show Married Names" activated and so my "Mary [---?---]" will appear in the 
list under her married name and I don't have to go searching too far for her.



On 6 January 2014 19:34, David Newton  wrote:

Agreed but it can be difficult when you don't know the maiden name. I
started by leaving it blank and then ended up with a collection of
forenames at the front of my index. So I now go with the married surname
and a title suffix of spouse. These have the advantage of showing in the
index in a more appropriate place and also it is easy to produce a list
by searching for suffix "spouse"

On 06/01/2014 09:21, Jay 1FamilyTree wrote:
> SNIP
> And everyone PLEASE stop putting a womans married name in the surname
> box. her surname is/was her maiden name.
> When gedcoms are passed on or info taken from a source that has done
> that I diligently verify it only to find 98% are in fact having their
> married name entered in the surname box.
>SNIP



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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Maiden names (Was: When to use est and when to use abt)

[Karen Blackmore]

Since I nad too many women whose names were Mary, Elizabeth, and Catherine, I 
came up with this method. 

With an unknown woman's surname I put her first name in the appropriate place 
followed by
(sp of [husband's first name or initial] and then in the surname  box I put 
[husband's surname])
So, the () are in two different spaces.  I believe you'll find that it is then 
found in the appropriate surname but it's obvious that it's not hers. 

Perhaps this will show as an example:
Mary (sp of George
Smith)

Good luck.
Karen
 



On Monday, January 6, 2014 2:57 AM, Kathy Thompson  wrote:

I use [---?---] for an unknown surname regardless of gender.

The beauty of Legacy is that I can have in Index view "Show Alternate Names" or 
"Show Married Names" activated and so my "Mary [---?---]" will appear in the 
list under her married name and I don't have to go searching too far for her.




On 6 January 2014 19:34, David Newton  wrote:

Agreed but it can be difficult when you don't know the maiden name. I
>started by leaving it blank and then ended up with a collection of
>forenames at the front of my index. So I now go with the married surname
>and a title suffix of spouse. These have the advantage of showing in the
>index in a more appropriate place and also it is easy to produce a list
>by searching for suffix "spouse"
>
>On 06/01/2014 09:21, Jay 1FamilyTree wrote:
>> SNIP
>> And everyone PLEASE stop putting a womans married name in the surname
>> box. her surname is/was her maiden name.
>> When gedcoms are passed on or info taken from a source that has done
>> that I diligently verify it only to find 98% are in fact having their
>> married name entered in the surname box.
>>SNIP
>
>
>
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>
>
>


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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Maiden names (Was: When to use est and when to use abt)

[Kathy Thompson]

I use [---?---] for an unknown surname regardless of gender.
The beauty of Legacy is that I can have in Index view "Show Alternate
Names" or "Show Married Names" activated and so my "Mary [---?---]" will
appear in the list under her married name and I don't have to go searching
too far for her.


On 6 January 2014 19:34, David Newton  wrote:

> Agreed but it can be difficult when you don't know the maiden name. I
> started by leaving it blank and then ended up with a collection of
> forenames at the front of my index. So I now go with the married surname
> and a title suffix of spouse. These have the advantage of showing in the
> index in a more appropriate place and also it is easy to produce a list
> by searching for suffix "spouse"
>
> On 06/01/2014 09:21, Jay 1FamilyTree wrote:
> > SNIP
> > And everyone PLEASE stop putting a womans married name in the surname
> > box. her surname is/was her maiden name.
> > When gedcoms are passed on or info taken from a source that has done
> > that I diligently verify it only to find 98% are in fact having their
> > married name entered in the surname box.
> >SNIP
>
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
> http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
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> on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com).
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>
>
>



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Re: [LegacyUG] unknown connections in Legacy

[Syble Glasscock]

Thanks to both of you for responding.   I can see how a separate  one-name 
Legacy file would help me. My main objective is to get notes, e-mails and 
computer files with the corresponding name in one place, so I can discard 
duplicate information and also readily find a particular person.  As the years 
have gone by, with more data collected, it gets more difficult to go back 
through the files.  
Thanks Again,
Syble


 

>
> From: Ron Ferguson 
>To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
>Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 9:22 AM
>Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] unknown connections in Legacy
>
>
>
>It was this sort of situation which caused me to
begin my Ferguson One-name Study, now registered with The Guild of One-Name
Studies. I have this study in a separate Legacy file which contains only my
Ferguson ancestors from my Family File, together with all the other Fergusons
which I have found.
> 
>Ron Ferguson
>http://www.fergys.co.uk/
>GOONS #5307
> 
> 
>From: SHIRLEY ANDERSON
>Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 7:58 PM
>To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
>Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] unknown connections in
Legacy
> Preparing
to do a one-name search for Yorks in Long Buckby (England), I created a separate
family file for the York surname.  I copied the Yorks in my main family
file that were connected to England, and then used the York file to accumulate
information on new people.  When I had ones that I was sure were connected
to mine, I copied them to the main file.  I used a unique UserID for the
ones in my main file.  Then I made a rule that I updated those people in
the main file.  If I felt the update was critical to my search for Yorks, I
would have updated that file also.
>
>It was a little clumsy to move back
and forth between files, but I avoided the confusion of many John Yorks etc in
my main file that weren't mine.
>
>~~
>Shirley York Anderson
yor...@prodigy.net
>~~
>My web site: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~syafam/
>http://myfamilybrickwalls.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Syble Glasscock

>To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
>Sent: Fri, January 18, 2013 1:36:28
PM
>Subject: [LegacyUG] unknown
connections in Legacy
>
>
>
>I have multiple records on people with the surnames I'm researching
in the areas of my lines. I'd like suggestions as to how to make better use of
what I have by adding them someway into Legacy. Any ideas would be
appreciated.
>Thanks,
>Syble Glasscock
> 
>
>Legacy User Group guidelines:
>http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
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>our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com).
>To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
>
>
>


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Re: [LegacyUG] unknown connections in Legacy

[Ron Ferguson]

It was this sort of situation which caused me to begin my Ferguson One-name 
Study, now registered with The Guild of One-Name Studies. I have this study in 
a separate Legacy file which contains only my Ferguson ancestors from my Family 
File, together with all the other Fergusons which I have found.

Ron Ferguson
http://www.fergys.co.uk/
GOONS #5307


From: SHIRLEY ANDERSON
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 7:58 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] unknown connections in Legacy

Preparing to do a one-name search for Yorks in Long Buckby (England), I created 
a separate family file for the York surname.  I copied the Yorks in my main 
family file that were connected to England, and then used the York file to 
accumulate information on new people.  When I had ones that I was sure were 
connected to mine, I copied them to the main file.  I used a unique UserID for 
the ones in my main file.  Then I made a rule that I updated those people in 
the main file.  If I felt the update was critical to my search for Yorks, I 
would have updated that file also.

It was a little clumsy to move back and forth between files, but I avoided the 
confusion of many John Yorks etc in my main file that weren't mine.


~~
Shirley York Anderson yor...@prodigy.net
~~
My web site: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~syafam/
http://myfamilybrickwalls.blogspot.com/




From: Syble Glasscock 
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Sent: Fri, January 18, 2013 1:36:28 PM
Subject: [LegacyUG] unknown connections in Legacy


I have multiple records on people with the surnames I'm researching in the 
areas of my lines. I'd like suggestions as to how to make better use of what I 
have by adding them someway into Legacy. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Syble Glasscock



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Re: [LegacyUG] unknown connections in Legacy

[SHIRLEY ANDERSON]

Preparing to do a one-name search for Yorks in Long Buckby (England), I created
a separate family file for the York surname.  I copied the Yorks in my main
family file that were connected to England, and then used the York file to
accumulate information on new people.  When I had ones that I was sure were
connected to mine, I copied them to the main file.  I used a unique UserID for
the ones in my main file.  Then I made a rule that I updated those people in the
main file.  If I felt the update was critical to my search for Yorks, I would
have updated that file also.

It was a little clumsy to move back and forth between files, but I avoided the
confusion of many John Yorks etc in my main file that weren't mine.

 ~~
Shirley York Anderson   yor...@prodigy.net
~~
My web site: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~syafam/
http://myfamilybrickwalls.blogspot.com/





From: Syble Glasscock 
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Sent: Fri, January 18, 2013 1:36:28 PM
Subject: [LegacyUG] unknown connections in Legacy


I have multiple records on people with the surnames I'm researching in the areas
of my lines.  I'd like suggestions as to how to make better use of what I have
by adding them someway into Legacy.   Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Syble Glasscock


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[LegacyUG] unknown connections in Legacy

[Syble Glasscock]

I have multiple records on people with the surnames I'm researching in the 
areas of my lines.  I'd like suggestions as to how to make better use of what I 
have by adding them someway into Legacy.   Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Syble Glasscock


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Re: [LegacyUG] unknown connections in Legacy

[Sherry/Support]

Just add them as unlinked individuals ( Add > New Unlinked Individual)
and make a To-Do item to research them further to see where they fit
in.


Sincerely,
Sherry
Technical Support
Legacy Family Tree


On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Syble Glasscock  wrote:
> I have multiple records on people with the surnames I'm researching in the
> areas of my lines.  I'd like suggestions as to how to make better use of
> what I have by adding them someway into Legacy.   Any ideas would be
> appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Syble Glasscock
>



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[LegacyUG] unknown connections in Legacy

[Syble Glasscock]

I have multiple records on people with the surnames I'm researching in the 
areas of my lines.  I'd like suggestions as to how to make better use of what I 
have by adding them someway into Legacy.   Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Syble Glasscock


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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown

[Doug Laidlaw]

I was more interested in how to remove them than how they got there,
because that was more helpful.  Anne was saying that nothing she could
do would remove them.

You have confirmed something else I was thinking: siblings without
named parents will need a marriage record to hold them together, and
that marriage is between "Unknowns."

Doug.

On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 08:37:41 -0800 (PST) Ron Taylor
 wrote:

> Neither Check/Repair nor Compact Family File will remove the "ghost"
> marriage records.  Those are marriage records which do not contain
> RINs pointing to either of the spouses.  You can find them by sorting
> the Marr List on Husband or Wife and then look at the top of the
> sorted list for "Unknown" in the Husband or Wife column.  If both
> columns show "Unknown", you can highlight that marriage and then
> click "Options" and then "Remove the Marriage Link...".  It is
> important to realize that siblings are connected to each other
> because they point to a marriage record of their parents.  If you
> remove a marriage record, that will break the connection between
> siblings.  You may wish to Select the marriage record to see if there
> is more than one child connected to it.  If it is a "ghost" marriage
> record with multiple children, then you probably want to add one or
> both of the parents to it.  If you know the parents for a single
> child, then likewise add one or both of the parents so the marriage
> record will no longer be a ghost marriage.
>
> Ron Ferguson gave a good explanation of what creates some of these
> ghost records.  I have also seem them as a result of importing files.
>
> Note that the Marr List will still show the word "Unknown" even if
> you have Options>Customize>Data Format>Word for Blank Records>(Just
> leave it blank) for individual spouse records that do not exist.
>
> If you have the following settings in Options>Customize>View>Display
> Numbers on Names>
>
> "On all Name Lists" box checked
> "On Family View and Pedigree View" box checked
> "RINs" radio button set
>
> Then if you have an individual record with the word "Unknown" typed
> in the name field, it will appear with the RIN next to it whereas the
> "Unknown" that is supposed to be left blank will show without a RIN
> next to it.  Individuals that do not exist will not show in the Name
> List.
>
> Ron Taylor
>
>
>



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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown

[Carl Cox]

<>

I think the ones I have came from imports and merges. I don’t accidently open a 
person then close it.

Carl


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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown

[Ron Taylor]

Neither Check/Repair nor Compact Family File will remove the "ghost" marriage 
records.  Those are marriage records which do not contain RINs pointing to 
either of the spouses.  You can find them by sorting the Marr List on Husband 
or Wife and then look at the top of the sorted list for "Unknown" in the 
Husband or Wife column.  If both columns show "Unknown", you can highlight that 
marriage and then click "Options" and then "Remove the Marriage Link...".  It 
is important to realize that siblings are connected to each other because they 
point to a marriage record of their parents.  If you remove a marriage record, 
that will break the connection between siblings.  You may wish to Select the 
marriage record to see if there is more than one child connected to it.  If it 
is a "ghost" marriage record with multiple children, then you probably want to 
add one or both of the parents to it.  If you know the parents for a single 
child, then likewise add one or both
 of the parents so the marriage record will no longer be a ghost marriage.

Ron Ferguson gave a good explanation of what creates some of these ghost 
records.  I have also seem them as a result of importing files.

Note that the Marr List will still show the word "Unknown" even if you have 
Options>Customize>Data Format>Word for Blank Records>(Just leave it blank) for 
individual spouse records that do not exist.

If you have the following settings in Options>Customize>View>Display Numbers on 
Names>

"On all Name Lists" box checked
"On Family View and Pedigree View" box checked
"RINs" radio button set

Then if you have an individual record with the word "Unknown" typed in the name 
field, it will appear with the RIN next to it whereas the "Unknown" that is 
supposed to be left blank will show without a RIN next to it.  Individuals that 
do not exist will not show in the Name List.

Ron Taylor



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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown

[JLB]

Try looking at View/Tree Finder. Hit the Refresh button and then go
examine the various trees. Maybe the unlinked Unknowns will show up
there and you can remove them.
---
JL Beeken
JLog - simple computer technology for genealogists
http://www.jgen.ws/jlog/

On 12/9/2012 9:28 PM, Anne Hollingshead wrote:
>
>   Yes I have unlinked them. How did I get them ???
>
>
>
>   I have many "unknowns" in my data base. How did they get there
>   when I have checked "just leave it blank "  and how do I get
>   rid of them altogether ?
>
>
>
>   Anne
>
>
> On 10/12/2012 2:41 PM, Pat Hickin wrote:
>> Have you tried unlinking them?
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 9:45 PM, Anne Hollingshead
>> mailto:holl...@melbpc.org.au>> wrote:
>>
>> I have three instances in my data base (marriage list) where
>> unknown is married to unknown.
>> The Rin numbers refer to other individuals. I can find no way of
>> deleting these entries.
>> I have "just leave it blank" checked.
>>
>> Anne
>>
>
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown

[Doug Laidlaw]

Once you have got them unlinked, they are orphans in your tree.  I
think that you can get rid of them completely by one of the "File
Maintenance" procedures -- perhaps Check/Repair, or Compact Family File.

Doug.

On Mon, 10 Dec 2012
12:04:49 - "Ron Ferguson"  wrote:

> Anne,
>
> The usual way of getting them is to accidently go to the Marriage
> Screen, realise it's an error and "X" out - you should use "Cancel".
> In my previous post on ghost marriages I should have said unlink
> rather than delete. This may well leave the above "unknown" which you
> will need to delete separately.
>
> It should be noted that in Legacy exiting a page using the "X" **does
> NOT mean "Cancel"**.
>
> Ron Ferguson
> http://www.fergys.co.uk/
>
>
> From: Anne Hollingshead
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 5:28 AM
> To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
> Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown
>
>
> Yes I have unlinked them. How did I get them ???
>
>
> I have many "unknowns" in my data base. How did they get there when I
> have checked "just leave it blank "  and how do I get rid of them
> altogether ?
>
>
> Anne
>
>
>
> On 10/12/2012 2:41 PM, Pat Hickin wrote:
> Have you tried unlinking them?
>
> Pat
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 9:45 PM, Anne Hollingshead
>  wrote:
>
> I have three instances in my data base (marriage list) where unknown
> is married to unknown.
> The Rin numbers refer to other individuals. I can find no way of
> deleting these entries.
> I have "just leave it blank" checked.
>
> Anne
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
>
>
> !DSPAM:50c5d0df84561024292468!
>




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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown

[Ron Ferguson]

Anne,

The usual way of getting them is to accidently go to the Marriage Screen,
realise it's an error and "X" out - you should use "Cancel". In my previous
post on ghost marriages I should have said unlink rather than delete. This
may well leave the above "unknown" which you will need to delete separately.

It should be noted that in Legacy exiting a page using the "X" **does NOT
mean "Cancel"**.

Ron Ferguson
http://www.fergys.co.uk/


From: Anne Hollingshead
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 5:28 AM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown


Yes I have unlinked them. How did I get them ???


I have many "unknowns" in my data base. How did they get there when I have
checked "just leave it blank "  and how do I get rid of them altogether
?


Anne



On 10/12/2012 2:41 PM, Pat Hickin wrote:
Have you tried unlinking them?

Pat


On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 9:45 PM, Anne Hollingshead 
wrote:

I have three instances in my data base (marriage list) where unknown is
married to unknown.
The Rin numbers refer to other individuals. I can find no way of deleting
these entries.
I have "just leave it blank" checked.

Anne






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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown

[Pat Hickin]

Sorry, I haven't the foggiest idea!!

Pat

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 12:28 AM, Anne Hollingshead
wrote:

>  Yes I have unlinked them. How did I get them ???
> I have many "unknowns" in my data base. How did they get there when I have
> checked "just leave it blank "  and how do I get rid of them altogether
> ?
> Anne
>
> On 10/12/2012 2:41 PM, Pat Hickin wrote:
>
> Have you tried unlinking them?
>
>  Pat
>
> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 9:45 PM, Anne Hollingshead 
> wrote:
>
>>  I have three instances in my data base (marriage list) where unknown is
>> married to unknown.
>> The Rin numbers refer to other individuals. I can find no way of deleting
>> these entries.
>> I have "just leave it blank" checked.
>>
>> Anne
>>
>>
>
>
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>



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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown

[Anne Hollingshead]

  Yes I have unlinked them. How did I get them ???



  I have many "unknowns" in my data base. How did they get there
  when I have checked "just leave it blank "  and how do I get
  rid of them altogether ?



  Anne


On 10/12/2012 2:41 PM, Pat Hickin wrote:
> Have you tried unlinking them?
>
> Pat
>
> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 9:45 PM, Anne Hollingshead
> mailto:holl...@melbpc.org.au>> wrote:
>
> I have three instances in my data base (marriage list) where
> unknown is married to unknown.
> The Rin numbers refer to other individuals. I can find no way of
> deleting these entries.
> I have "just leave it blank" checked.
>
> Anne
>




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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown

[Pat Hickin]

Have you tried unlinking them?

Pat

On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 9:45 PM, Anne Hollingshead wrote:

>  I have three instances in my data base (marriage list) where unknown is
> married to unknown.
> The Rin numbers refer to other individuals. I can find no way of deleting
> these entries.
> I have "just leave it blank" checked.
>
> Anne
>
>
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> on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com).
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>



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[LegacyUG] Unknown

[Anne Hollingshead]

I have three instances in my data base (marriage list) where unknown is
married to unknown.
The Rin numbers refer to other individuals. I can find no way of
deleting these entries.
I have "just leave it blank" checked.

Anne



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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown sex of person

[Mike Fry]

On 2011/10/31 23:30, Jenny M Benson wrote:

> The "problem" is having to use the ? after having entered either a male
> or female, rather than being able to enter the new person as of
> undetermined gender.

Well... you're in the screen already, so what's one click and one keypress more?
It's not as if data entry is overly time dependent :-)

--
Regards,
Mike Fry
Johannesburg


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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown sex of person

[Jenny M Benson]

On 31/10/2011 21:16, Anne Picketts wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:06 AM, Wendy Howardwrote:
>
>> >  "Has anyone else been frustrated that when adding multiple entries from a
>> >  book that there isn't a Add unknown sex child with the other Add's."
>> >
> Have you used the '?' on the  edit screen?  Works well for my unknown sex
> children.

The "problem" is having to use the ? after having entered either a male
or female, rather than being able to enter the new person as of
undetermined gender.

--
Jenny M Benson


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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown sex of person

[Anne Picketts]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:06 AM, Wendy Howard wrote:

> "Has anyone else been frustrated that when adding multiple entries from a
> book that there isn't a Add unknown sex child with the other Add's."
>

Have you used the '?' on the  edit screen?  Works well for my unknown sex
children.

Anne

--
Anne PICKETTS
Waipu, NZ
NZSG #5331;  KFHS #6151
Also at:  


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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown sex of person

[Wendy Howard]

"Has anyone else been frustrated that when adding multiple entries from a book 
that there isn't a Add unknown sex child with the other Add's."

A little, now that you come to mention it Scott.  I like to use the keyboard 
shortcuts, and there is one for "add daughter" and for "add son", but not one 
for "add child of unknown sex", so I find myself in the same situation as you.

It means I have to add a son or daughter as usual, and then reach for the 
cursor (whether by mouse or touchpad, depending on which computer I'm using at 
the time) and shift it to that field to make the change to "unknown", when I 
may have already placed it strategically for another use in Legacy where 
there's no keyboard option, or in another window.

There is a link in Legacy (in the Legacy Home tab) to "suggest a new feature".  
You may like to use it, Scott, to add your good idea.

Kind Regards,
Wendy



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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown father

[Joan Kemp]

If I have several sibs of unknown parents, I just put the parents in as
'Mr Linnell' & 'Mrs Linnell' - or whatever the surname is.  This binds
the family unit together & works perfectly well;  it is particularly
useful if the siblings have partners/offspring!

Joan

On 14/07/2011 11:55, cranberryf...@cobridge.tv wrote:
> I like that!
>
> michele
>
> -Original Message-
> From: La Nell Shores
> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:03 PM
> To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
> Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown father
>
> When I have that situation I  add into the notes of the unknown father this
> phrase: "Nothing is known of this person at this time. He is  only a space
> holder for two siblings. Further research is needed."
>
> La Nell Shores
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
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>
>
>



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RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown father

[Jerry]

That's great. I didn't realize that would work like that.  Jerry

Alan Pereira  wrote:

>I have this situation in my database.  All I did was enter one of the brothers 
>as an individual then click on the Father field in the Family Page.  This 
>presents the family page showing the first individual as a son with no 
>parents.  You can then simply add another son.
>
>I would add an event against each (Census in my case) showing the details and 
>source.
>
>Alan
>
>
>
>From: cranberryf...@cobridge.tv [mailto:cranberryf...@cobridge.tv]
>Sent: 13 July 2011 23:37
>To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
>Subject: [LegacyUG] Unknown father
>
>
>
>Let’s say I have two men that I know are brothers but I don’t know who their 
>father is.  For me to get them linked as brothers I have to put in a father.
>
>
>
>James Doe and Jason Doe are brothers.  I have to put just the surname Doe as a 
>father so that they will show as brothers, does that make sense?  The problem 
>is, Mr. Doe is showing as a person with no sources at all.  I am a little OCD 
>about making sure everyone has sources Smile Smile Smile  Is there anyway else 
>to link the two brothers?
>
>
>
>michele
>
>
>
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>
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>

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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown father

[cranberryfrog]

Mike,
I didn't think that would work but it does!

I can't see them as siblings but when I click on the empty father box above
then both siblings show up and I don't have to add a father.  You are
brilliant :)

michele

-Original Message-
From: Mike Fry
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 6:38 AM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown father

On 2011/07/14 00:37, cranberryf...@cobridge.tv wrote:

> Let’s say I have two men that I know are brothers but I don’t know who
> their
> father is. For me to get them linked as brothers I have to put in a
> father.
> James Doe and Jason Doe are brothers. I have to put just the surname Doe
> as a
> father so that they will show as brothers, does that make sense? The
> problem is,
> Mr. Doe is showing as a person with no sources at all. I am a little OCD
> about
> making sure everyone has sources Smile Smile Smile Is there anyway else to
> link
> the two brothers?

Enter the first man as an unlinked individual.
Now, in the Family tab, double-click on the empty father above the man.
Now, enter the second man as a brother by right-clicking on his name in the
children's list.

--
Regards,
Mike Fry
Johannesburg



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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown father

[cranberryfrog]

I had thought of that, John.  That might be the best options.

michele


From: John S. Adams
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:00 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown father

How do you know they're brothers?  I would use that source for the father.

John S. Adams
Hermosa Beach, CA

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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown father

[cranberryfrog]

I like that!

michele

-Original Message-
From: La Nell Shores
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:03 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown father

When I have that situation I  add into the notes of the unknown father this
phrase: "Nothing is known of this person at this time. He is  only a space
holder for two siblings. Further research is needed."

La Nell Shores
Sent from my iPhone



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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown father

[Mike Fry]

On 2011/07/14 00:37, cranberryf...@cobridge.tv wrote:

> Let’s say I have two men that I know are brothers but I don’t know who their
> father is. For me to get them linked as brothers I have to put in a father.
> James Doe and Jason Doe are brothers. I have to put just the surname Doe as a
> father so that they will show as brothers, does that make sense? The problem 
> is,
> Mr. Doe is showing as a person with no sources at all. I am a little OCD about
> making sure everyone has sources Smile Smile Smile Is there anyway else to 
> link
> the two brothers?

Enter the first man as an unlinked individual.
Now, in the Family tab, double-click on the empty father above the man.
Now, enter the second man as a brother by right-clicking on his name in the
children's list.

--
Regards,
Mike Fry
Johannesburg


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RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown father

[Marc Scott]

You could use basic source to write up a "source" that Unknown Doe is unidentified at this time, but research has shown that John and Jake Doe are brothers from the same yet-unidentified brother.Having a source does not necessarily mean it has to be a document, it can be just an explanation of you're reasoning.Just my 2 cents, hope this idea helps.--- On Thu, 7/14/11, Alan Pereira  wrote:From: Alan Pereira Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown fatherTo: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.comDate: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 5:19 AMI have this situation in my database.  All I did was enter one of the brothers as an individual then click on the Father field in the Family Page.  This presents the family page showing the first individual as a son with no parents.  You can then simply add another son.I would add an event against each (Census in my case) showing the details and source.Alan  From: cranberryf...@cobridge.tv [mailto:cranberryf...@cobridge.tv] Sent: 13 July 2011 23:37To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.comSubject: [LegacyUG] Unknown father  Let’s say I have two men that I know are brothers but I don’t know who their father is.  For me to get them linked as brothers I have to put in a father.   James Doe and Jason Doe are brothers.  I have to put just the surname Doe as a father so that they will show as brothers, does
 that make sense?  The problem is, Mr. Doe is showing as a person with no sources at all.  I am a little OCD about making sure everyone has sources     Is there anyway else to link the two brothers? micheleLegacy User
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RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown father

[Alan Pereira]

I have this situation in my database.  All I did was enter one of the brothers 
as an individual then click on the Father field in the Family Page.  This 
presents the family page showing the first individual as a son with no parents. 
 You can then simply add another son.

I would add an event against each (Census in my case) showing the details and 
source.

Alan



From: cranberryf...@cobridge.tv [mailto:cranberryf...@cobridge.tv]
Sent: 13 July 2011 23:37
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: [LegacyUG] Unknown father



Let’s say I have two men that I know are brothers but I don’t know who their 
father is.  For me to get them linked as brothers I have to put in a father.



James Doe and Jason Doe are brothers.  I have to put just the surname Doe as a 
father so that they will show as brothers, does that make sense?  The problem 
is, Mr. Doe is showing as a person with no sources at all.  I am a little OCD 
about making sure everyone has sources Smile Smile Smile  Is there anyway else 
to link the two brothers?



michele



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<>

Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown father

[Jerry Peterson]

I agree with La Nell.   To add one thing - I dislike intensely the practice
of some database managers using the term unknown in any name field, which is
not recommended by professionals.  However I also dislike the practice of
simply leaving a name field blank.  And I don't think the pros recommend the
use of even a question mark, but I like the question mark because it is an
easy identifer in name index lists.   So, anyway, when I encounter an
unknown FIRST or LAST name, I put some simple identifying information in the
name field itself, but in this case there are two siblings to reference and
normally there is only one spouse, etc.   So, anyway, here's the idea:

Surname Field:  DOE
First Name Field: Given Name ? (Father of James and Jason)

Other examples:
Surname Field:  ROBINSON
First Name Field: Given Name ? (Husband of Mary Merriam)

Surname Field:  MERRIAM
First Name Field:  Mary ? (Wife of John)

So far, for us this has been the best way to provide some completeness and
continuity to unknown names and makes it easier by the name field itself to
find a little bit of information about who that person is linked to...
Plus, it helps clean up your name indexes so they don't look so haphazard
and incomplete when you have a bunch of unknowns.

Thanks,
Jerry Boor / http://www.MerriamFamilyTree.org

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 10:03 PM, La Nell Shores  wrote:

> When I have that situation I  add into the notes of the unknown father this
> phrase: "Nothing is known of this person at this time. He is  only a space
> holder for two siblings. Further research is needed."
>
> La Nell Shores
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 13, 2011, at 6:08 PM, Jenny M Benson  wrote:
>
> > On 13/07/2011 23:37, cranberryf...@cobridge.tv wrote:
> >> Let’s say I have two men that I know are brothers but I don’t know
> who
> >> their father is.  For me to get them linked as brothers I have to put in
> >> a father.
> >> James Doe and Jason Doe are brothers.  I have to put just the surname
> >> Doe as a father so that they will show as brothers, does that make
> >> sense?  The problem is, Mr. Doe is showing as a person with no sources
> >> at all.  I am a little OCD about making sure everyone has sources Smile
> >> Smile Smile  Is there anyway else to link the two brothers?
> >
> > I have at least 2 similar cases - well actually in my cases I do know
> > who the father is but because of my minimal interest in the people
> > concerned I do not want a full entry in my database for their father.
> > All I have is the father's surname, just in order to show the children
> > as siblings.  It doesn't bother me (and I normally quite fanatical about
> > sources too) that I have no Source for Daddy because he will never have
> > any information added or appear in any Report.
> >
> > --
> > Jenny M Benson
> >
> >
> > Legacy User Group guidelines:
> > http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
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> on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com).
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> >
> >
>
>
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>
>
>


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RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown father

[John S. Adams]

How do you know they're brothers?  I would use that source for the father.

John S. AdamsHermosa Beach, CA

From: cranberryf...@cobridge.tv
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: [LegacyUG] Unknown father
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 18:37:26 -0400











Let’s say I have two men that I know are brothers but I don’t know who
their father is.  For me to get them linked as brothers I have to put in a
father.

James Doe and Jason Doe are brothers.  I have to put just the surname
Doe as a father so that they will show as brothers, does that make sense?
The problem is, Mr. Doe is showing as a person with no sources at all.  I
am a little OCD about making sure everyone has sources Is there anyway
else to link the two brothers?

michele



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<>

Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown father

[La Nell Shores]

When I have that situation I  add into the notes of the unknown father this 
phrase: "Nothing is known of this person at this time. He is  only a space 
holder for two siblings. Further research is needed."

La Nell Shores
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 13, 2011, at 6:08 PM, Jenny M Benson  wrote:

> On 13/07/2011 23:37, cranberryf...@cobridge.tv wrote:
>> Let’s say I have two men that I know are brothers but I don’t know who
>> their father is.  For me to get them linked as brothers I have to put in
>> a father.
>> James Doe and Jason Doe are brothers.  I have to put just the surname
>> Doe as a father so that they will show as brothers, does that make
>> sense?  The problem is, Mr. Doe is showing as a person with no sources
>> at all.  I am a little OCD about making sure everyone has sources Smile
>> Smile Smile  Is there anyway else to link the two brothers?
>
> I have at least 2 similar cases - well actually in my cases I do know
> who the father is but because of my minimal interest in the people
> concerned I do not want a full entry in my database for their father.
> All I have is the father's surname, just in order to show the children
> as siblings.  It doesn't bother me (and I normally quite fanatical about
> sources too) that I have no Source for Daddy because he will never have
> any information added or appear in any Report.
>
> --
> Jenny M Benson
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
> http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
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> our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com).
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>
>


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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown father

[Jenny M Benson]

On 13/07/2011 23:37, cranberryf...@cobridge.tv wrote:
> Let’s say I have two men that I know are brothers but I don’t know who
> their father is.  For me to get them linked as brothers I have to put in
> a father.
> James Doe and Jason Doe are brothers.  I have to put just the surname
> Doe as a father so that they will show as brothers, does that make
> sense?  The problem is, Mr. Doe is showing as a person with no sources
> at all.  I am a little OCD about making sure everyone has sources Smile
> Smile Smile  Is there anyway else to link the two brothers?

I have at least 2 similar cases - well actually in my cases I do know
who the father is but because of my minimal interest in the people
concerned I do not want a full entry in my database for their father.
All I have is the father's surname, just in order to show the children
as siblings.  It doesn't bother me (and I normally quite fanatical about
sources too) that I have no Source for Daddy because he will never have
any information added or appear in any Report.

--
Jenny M Benson


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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown father

[Robert E. Carneal]

If I know the son is John Doe, I assume the father's last name is Doe.
So I enter his last name, but leave the first name blank. Will that
work for you?

OTOH, if the person is a daughter, and I don't know if I have the
daughter's maiden name or married name, I just put in "father name
unknown." When I discover his name, I change it.

Thanks.

Robert

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 5:37 PM,  wrote:
>
> Let’s say I have two men that I know are brothers but I don’t know who their 
> father is.  For me to get them linked as brothers I have to put in a father.
>
> James Doe and Jason Doe are brothers.  I have to put just the surname Doe as 
> a father so that they will show as brothers, does that make sense?  The 
> problem is, Mr. Doe is showing as a person with no sources at all.  I am a 
> little OCD about making sure everyone has sources     Is there anyway else to 
> link the two brothers?
>
> michele


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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

[Darlene & Don Hicks]

I, also have done this for several years.  I took the time to change my 20,000 
plus database and changed everyone that I didn't know the name of to husband of 
or wife of or child of.  Then when I find two mary's without last names I know 
exactly which one to link.  So, I do it even when I have a first but no last 
name or if I just have a last name but no first name.  The brackets around them 
keep these things from printing when sharing information.  To me it is the 
perfect solution!

Darlene

A DAY HEMMED WITH PRAYER IS LESS LIKELY TO UNRAVEL!

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gotten a hold of us.”

- Thomas Jefferson 1782




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to work and give to those who would not.

– Thomas Jefferson




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~ C.S. Lewis, 1898-1963


"Energy and persistence conquer all things."

~ Benjamin Franklin,
1706-1790

"If men through fear, fraud or mistake, should in terms renounce and give up 
any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the great end of 
society, would absolutely vacate such renunciation; the right to freedom being 
the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of Man to alienate this gift, 
and voluntarily become a slave."

- John Adams, On the Rights of the Colonists, 1772

--- On Fri, 3/25/11, D MG  wrote:


From: D MG 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Date: Friday, March 25, 2011, 12:26 PM



Kathy,
 
That's the method I use, except for one extra addition.  When I find a person 
without knowing their first name in put for e.g., [[husband of John Doe]] The 
double square brackets indicate that it's private, and won't normally be 
transferred via GEDCOM or when printing any family sheets, Etc.

This then means I can see on screen when I don;t have full details for someone, 
but I'm not passing on any erroneous to anyone else.
 
Regards,
 
Dermot.

--

http://about.me/TheQ47/bio

Try out Legacy Family Tree Software today! It's FREE!!
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On 25 March 2011 17:00, Kathy Meyer  wrote:


I like that method. I think I may use that in the future.  I think the 
description is the point I like.  For instance, I might put 'father of John 
Jones' in the blank, indicating all I know is that John Jones has a father.  If 
I put 'husband of Mary Smith' that would indicate that I know she has a 
husband.  Just because I know one relationship doesn't necessarily mean I know 
the other relationship and that seems very helpful to me.  As it is now, I am 
having to check notes etc to see why I entered that. I think many of my 
unknowns are children that are unidentified and 'unknown' might make sense on 
the parents' family view but on the individual view, it would be better to see 
'child of John & Mary Jones'.  I am reading this thread with interest.  Thanks 
for all of the comments; they are helping me to consider all of the possible 
advantages and consequences.
 
Kathy





On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 2:36 PM, John Carter  wrote:

If I know anything about an individual (i.e, Sarah Jones married Mr.
Smith's son) unknown given name is likely to be a relationship.   Mr.
Smith's given name would be "husband of Sarah Jones".

I like this for 4 reasons.
1. The field isn't blank.
2. The relationship is obvious in name lists, etc.
3. It's not likely to be misinterpreted by a non-English speaker.
4. It serves as a reminder that I have research to do.

I don't like it for 2 reasons.
1. It's ugly
2. It's potentially a space hog in reports.

The "likes" outnumber the "don't likes", so it's my current choice.

John

> I would NEVER us a Mr. or Mrs. and a surname. I just use a “?† for

> either, and if Legacy keeps screaming at me for using it I will use
> another program.
>
>
>
> How any of you done a search  on “Unknown†, I think I even find one in

> a censes?
>
> Thanks,
> David C Abernathy
> Email disclaimers
> 
> This message represents the official view of the voices in my head.
> 
> http://www.SchmeckAbernathy.com <http://www.schmeckabernathy.com/>

> == All outgoing and incoming mail is scanned by F-Prot Antivirus  ==
>
>
>
> From: William Boswell [mailto:whbosw...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:09 AM
> To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
> Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution
>
>
>
> I always just put Mr. or Mrs. then the surname of the husband for names.

Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

[Brian/Support]

Marge,

It is not that descriptive terms are not allowed by Legacy. There is a
setting however that warns you when things like that are used. To turn
off these "standardization" warning messages:
Go to Options > Customize > Other
Click the Turn on or off Optional Reminder Messages
Select the Messages Tab
Remove the check mark in the "Message to always show Standardization Tips"
With this turned off you will never be nagged about the entries in your
data where you have "violated" the standardization tips.

You can also turn off selected standardization tips
To select the standardization tips you do not want to be bothered by:
Go to Tools > Potential Problems
Select the Standardization Tab
Here you can select or deselect specific standardization suggestions
such as the one about descriptive words in the name field.

Brian
Customer Support
Millennia Corporation
br...@legacyfamilytree.com
http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com

We are changing the world of genealogy!
When replying to this message, please include all previous correspondence.
Thanks.

On 24/03/2011 9:03 AM, Marge Counterman wrote:
> Thank you.  Food for thought.  But, is "not known" descriptive?  Legacy will 
> not allow Unknown because it is descriptive!!



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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

[Sherry/Support]

Mary Slawson, in her book "Getting It Right" recommends that the following:

"Daughter of"  and "Son of" shoud not be used to replace missing names
unless that's the way the individual is specifically described in
original source materials (p 30)

"Mrs" would not be used in place of a missing given name or maiden
name unless the ancestor is identified only as widow in source
materials .  In that case, enter "Mrs" followed by the given name of
the spouse and then enter the spouse's surname where you would
normally have entered the ancestor's maiden name (p 32)  Of course
this applies only if you don't know the given or maiden name.

Don't use symbols in the Given Name Field (p 21)

For unknown Given or Surnames, leave those blank (p 28)

If you have a male linked to a child as a father, there's no need to
enter "father of John Jones".  Just leave the given name blank.  Of
course, John Jones had a father!  That's a given! He also had a
mother.  And if he had brothers and sisters, would you list the
names of all the brothers and sisters also?


Sincerely,
Sherry
Technical Support
Legacy Family Tree



On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:00 AM, Kathy Meyer  wrote:
> I like that method. I think I may use that in the future.  I think the
> description is the point I like.  For instance, I might put 'father of John
> Jones' in the blank, indicating all I know is that John Jones has a father.
> If I put 'husband of Mary Smith' that would indicate that I know she has a
> husband.  Just because I know one relationship doesn't necessarily mean I
> know the other relationship and that seems very helpful to me.  As it is
> now, I am having to check notes etc to see why I entered that. I think many
> of my unknowns are children that are unidentified and 'unknown' might make
> sense on the parents' family view but on the individual view, it would be
> better to see 'child of John & Mary Jones'.  I am reading this thread with
> interest.  Thanks for all of the comments; they are helping me to consider
> all of the possible advantages and consequences.
>
> Kathy
>
> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 2:36 PM, John Carter  wrote:
>>
>> If I know anything about an individual (i.e, Sarah Jones married Mr.
>> Smith's son) unknown given name is likely to be a relationship.   Mr.
>> Smith's given name would be "husband of Sarah Jones".
>>
>> I like this for 4 reasons.
>> 1. The field isn't blank.
>> 2. The relationship is obvious in name lists, etc.
>> 3. It's not likely to be misinterpreted by a non-English speaker.
>> 4. It serves as a reminder that I have research to do.
>>
>> I don't like it for 2 reasons.
>> 1. It's ugly
>> 2. It's potentially a space hog in reports.
>>
>> The "likes" outnumber the "don't likes", so it's my current choice.
>>
>> John
>>
>> > I would NEVER us a Mr. or Mrs. and a surname. I just use a “?† for
>> > either, and if Legacy keeps screaming at me for using it I will use
>> > another program.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > How any of you done a search  on “Unknown†, I think I even find one
>> > in
>> > a censes?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > David C Abernathy
>> > Email disclaimers
>> >
>> > --------
>> > This message represents the official view of the voices in my head.
>> >
>> > 
>> > http://www.SchmeckAbernathy.com <http://www.schmeckabernathy.com/>
>> > == All outgoing and incoming mail is scanned by F-Prot Antivirus  ==
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: William Boswell [mailto:whbosw...@gmail.com]
>> > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:09 AM
>> > To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
>> > Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I always just put Mr. or Mrs. then the surname of the husband for names.
>> > For dates, I don’t like putting Unknown for anything especially death
>> > dates because when I did it before, having something in that field
>> > showed
>> > the person was dead and I later discovered they were still living and in
>> > their early 100’s.  Then when I was posting to my website, this living
>> > person’s information went online.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I think a blank field sufficiently sug

Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

[D MG]

Kathy,

That's the method I use, except for one extra addition.  When I find a
person without knowing their first name in put for e.g., [[husband of John
Doe]] The double square brackets indicate that it's private, and won't
normally be transferred via GEDCOM or when printing any family sheets, Etc.

This then means I can see on screen when I don;t have full details for
someone, but I'm not passing on any erroneous to anyone else.

Regards,

Dermot.

--
http://about.me/TheQ47/bio

Try out Legacy Family Tree Software today! It's FREE!!
http://www.legacyfamilytreestore.com/?Click=1440






On 25 March 2011 17:00, Kathy Meyer  wrote:

> I like that method. I think I may use that in the future.  I think the
> description is the point I like.  For instance, I might put 'father of John
> Jones' in the blank, indicating all I know is that John Jones has a father.
> If I put 'husband of Mary Smith' that would indicate that I know she has a
> husband.  Just because I know one relationship doesn't necessarily mean I
> know the other relationship and that seems very helpful to me.  As it is
> now, I am having to check notes etc to see why I entered that. I think many
> of my unknowns are children that are unidentified and 'unknown' might make
> sense on the parents' family view but on the individual view, it would be
> better to see 'child of John & Mary Jones'.  I am reading this thread with
> interest.  Thanks for all of the comments; they are helping me to consider
> all of the possible advantages and consequences.
>
> Kathy
>
>   On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 2:36 PM, John Carter wrote:
>
>> If I know anything about an individual (i.e, Sarah Jones married Mr.
>> Smith's son) unknown given name is likely to be a relationship.   Mr.
>> Smith's given name would be "husband of Sarah Jones".
>>
>> I like this for 4 reasons.
>> 1. The field isn't blank.
>> 2. The relationship is obvious in name lists, etc.
>> 3. It's not likely to be misinterpreted by a non-English speaker.
>> 4. It serves as a reminder that I have research to do.
>>
>> I don't like it for 2 reasons.
>> 1. It's ugly
>> 2. It's potentially a space hog in reports.
>>
>> The "likes" outnumber the "don't likes", so it's my current choice.
>>
>> John
>>
>> > I would NEVER us a Mr. or Mrs. and a surname. I just use a “?† for
>> > either, and if Legacy keeps screaming at me for using it I will use
>> > another program.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > How any of you done a search  on “Unknown†, I think I even find one
>> in
>> > a censes?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > David C Abernathy
>> > Email disclaimers
>> >
>> 
>> > This message represents the official view of the voices in my head.
>> >
>> 
>> > http://www.SchmeckAbernathy.com <http://www.schmeckabernathy.com/> <
>> http://www.schmeckabernathy.com/>
>> > == All outgoing and incoming mail is scanned by F-Prot Antivirus  ==
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: William Boswell [mailto:whbosw...@gmail.com]
>> > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:09 AM
>> > To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
>> > Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I always just put Mr. or Mrs. then the surname of the husband for names.
>> > For dates, I don’t like putting Unknown for anything especially death
>> > dates because when I did it before, having something in that field
>> showed
>> > the person was dead and I later discovered they were still living and in
>> > their early 100’s.  Then when I was posting to my website, this living
>> > person’s information went online.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I think a blank field sufficiently suggests that I don’t know what it
>> > is.  Too many Unknowns looks junky to me.  Besides, as someone else
>> > pointed out, later on a researcher who gets your information will think
>> > their surname is Unknown.  This could be a surname somewhere.  I have
>> some
>> > “Awkwards† in my tree so anything is possible.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Bill Boswell
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Gene Hutson [mailto:fish...@q.com]
>> > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 

Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

[Kathy Meyer]

I like that method. I think I may use that in the future.  I think the
description is the point I like.  For instance, I might put 'father of John
Jones' in the blank, indicating all I know is that John Jones has a father.
If I put 'husband of Mary Smith' that would indicate that I know she has a
husband.  Just because I know one relationship doesn't necessarily mean I
know the other relationship and that seems very helpful to me.  As it is
now, I am having to check notes etc to see why I entered that. I think many
of my unknowns are children that are unidentified and 'unknown' might make
sense on the parents' family view but on the individual view, it would be
better to see 'child of John & Mary Jones'.  I am reading this thread with
interest.  Thanks for all of the comments; they are helping me to consider
all of the possible advantages and consequences.

Kathy

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 2:36 PM, John Carter  wrote:

> If I know anything about an individual (i.e, Sarah Jones married Mr.
> Smith's son) unknown given name is likely to be a relationship.   Mr.
> Smith's given name would be "husband of Sarah Jones".
>
> I like this for 4 reasons.
> 1. The field isn't blank.
> 2. The relationship is obvious in name lists, etc.
> 3. It's not likely to be misinterpreted by a non-English speaker.
> 4. It serves as a reminder that I have research to do.
>
> I don't like it for 2 reasons.
> 1. It's ugly
> 2. It's potentially a space hog in reports.
>
> The "likes" outnumber the "don't likes", so it's my current choice.
>
> John
>
> > I would NEVER us a Mr. or Mrs. and a surname. I just use a “?† for
> > either, and if Legacy keeps screaming at me for using it I will use
> > another program.
> >
> >
> >
> > How any of you done a search  on “Unknown†, I think I even find one
> in
> > a censes?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David C Abernathy
> > Email disclaimers
> >
> 
> > This message represents the official view of the voices in my head.
> >
> 
> > http://www.SchmeckAbernathy.com <http://www.schmeckabernathy.com/> <
> http://www.schmeckabernathy.com/>
> > == All outgoing and incoming mail is scanned by F-Prot Antivirus  ==
> >
> >
> >
> > From: William Boswell [mailto:whbosw...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:09 AM
> > To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
> > Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution
> >
> >
> >
> > I always just put Mr. or Mrs. then the surname of the husband for names.
> > For dates, I don’t like putting Unknown for anything especially death
> > dates because when I did it before, having something in that field showed
> > the person was dead and I later discovered they were still living and in
> > their early 100’s.  Then when I was posting to my website, this living
> > person’s information went online.
> >
> >
> >
> > I think a blank field sufficiently suggests that I don’t know what it
> > is.  Too many Unknowns looks junky to me.  Besides, as someone else
> > pointed out, later on a researcher who gets your information will think
> > their surname is Unknown.  This could be a surname somewhere.  I have
> some
> > “Awkwards† in my tree so anything is possible.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill Boswell
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Gene Hutson [mailto:fish...@q.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:06 AM
> > To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
> > Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution
> >
> >
> >
> > If it were me, I’d leave a ‘dummy’ in there, say “Unknownâ€
> > “Unknownâ€
>  >
> > married abt  to preserve the marriage, this also gives me a visual
> cue
> >
> > that more work is needed.
> >
> >
> >
> >my 2 cents worth.
> >
> >
> >
> >   Gene
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Legacy User Group guidelines:
> >
> > http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp<http://www.legacyfamilytree.com/Etiquette.asp>
> > Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009:
> >http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
> > Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009:
> >http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/
> > Online technical support: 
> &

RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

[John Carter]

If I know anything about an individual (i.e, Sarah Jones married Mr.
Smith's son) unknown given name is likely to be a relationship.   Mr.
Smith's given name would be "husband of Sarah Jones".

I like this for 4 reasons.
1. The field isn't blank.
2. The relationship is obvious in name lists, etc.
3. It's not likely to be misinterpreted by a non-English speaker.
4. It serves as a reminder that I have research to do.

I don't like it for 2 reasons.
1. It's ugly
2. It's potentially a space hog in reports.

The "likes" outnumber the "don't likes", so it's my current choice.

John

> I would NEVER us a Mr. or Mrs. and a surname. I just use a “?” for
> either, and if Legacy keeps screaming at me for using it I will use
> another program.
>
>
>
> How any of you done a search  on “Unknown”, I think I even find one in
> a censes?
>
> Thanks,
> David C Abernathy
> Email disclaimers
> 
> This message represents the official view of the voices in my head.
> 
> http://www.SchmeckAbernathy.com <http://www.schmeckabernathy.com/>
> == All outgoing and incoming mail is scanned by F-Prot Antivirus  ==
>
>
>
> From: William Boswell [mailto:whbosw...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:09 AM
> To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
> Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution
>
>
>
> I always just put Mr. or Mrs. then the surname of the husband for names.
> For dates, I don’t like putting Unknown for anything especially death
> dates because when I did it before, having something in that field showed
> the person was dead and I later discovered they were still living and in
> their early 100’s.  Then when I was posting to my website, this living
> person’s information went online.
>
>
>
> I think a blank field sufficiently suggests that I don’t know what it
> is.  Too many Unknowns looks junky to me.  Besides, as someone else
> pointed out, later on a researcher who gets your information will think
> their surname is Unknown.  This could be a surname somewhere.  I have some
> “Awkwards” in my tree so anything is possible.
>
>
>
> Bill Boswell
>
>
>
> From: Gene Hutson [mailto:fish...@q.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:06 AM
> To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
> Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution
>
>
>
> If it were me, I’d leave a ‘dummy’ in there, say “Unknown”
> “Unknown”
>
> married abt  to preserve the marriage, this also gives me a visual cue
>
> that more work is needed.
>
>
>
>my 2 cents worth.
>
>
>
>   Gene
>
>
>
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
>http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
> Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009:
>http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
> Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009:
>http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/
> Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp
> To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
>
>
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
>
>http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
>
> Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009:
>
>http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
>
> Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009:
>
>http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/
>
> Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp
>
> To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
>
>
>





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RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

[David C Abernathy]

I would NEVER us a Mr. or Mrs. and a surname. I just use a “?” for either, and 
if Legacy keeps screaming at me for using it I will use another program.



How any of you done a search  on “Unknown”, I think I even find one in a censes?

Thanks,
David C Abernathy
Email disclaimers

This message represents the official view of the voices in my head.

http://www.SchmeckAbernathy.com <http://www.schmeckabernathy.com/>
== All outgoing and incoming mail is scanned by F-Prot Antivirus  ==



From: William Boswell [mailto:whbosw...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:09 AM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution



I always just put Mr. or Mrs. then the surname of the husband for names.  For 
dates, I don’t like putting Unknown for anything especially death dates because 
when I did it before, having something in that field showed the person was dead 
and I later discovered they were still living and in their early 100’s.  Then 
when I was posting to my website, this living person’s information went online.



I think a blank field sufficiently suggests that I don’t know what it is.  Too 
many Unknowns looks junky to me.  Besides, as someone else pointed out, later 
on a researcher who gets your information will think their surname is Unknown.  
This could be a surname somewhere.  I have some “Awkwards” in my tree so 
anything is possible.



Bill Boswell



From: Gene Hutson [mailto:fish...@q.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:06 AM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution



If it were me, I’d leave a ‘dummy’ in there, say “Unknown” “Unknown”

married abt  to preserve the marriage, this also gives me a visual cue

that more work is needed.



   my 2 cents worth.



  Gene





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RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

[William Boswell]

I always just put Mr. or Mrs. then the surname of the husband for names.  For 
dates, I don’t like putting Unknown for anything especially death dates because 
when I did it before, having something in that field showed the person was dead 
and I later discovered they were still living and in their early 100’s.  Then 
when I was posting to my website, this living person’s information went online.



I think a blank field sufficiently suggests that I don’t know what it is.  Too 
many Unknowns looks junky to me.  Besides, as someone else pointed out, later 
on a researcher who gets your information will think their surname is Unknown.  
This could be a surname somewhere.  I have some “Awkwards” in my tree so 
anything is possible.



Bill Boswell



From: Gene Hutson [mailto:fish...@q.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:06 AM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution



If it were me, I’d leave a ‘dummy’ in there, say “Unknown” “Unknown”

married abt  to preserve the marriage, this also gives me a visual cue

that more work is needed.



   my 2 cents worth.



  Gene






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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

[Jenny M Benson]

On 24/03/2011 13:03, Marge Counterman wrote:
> */Thank you.  Food for thought.  But, is "not known" discriptive?
> Legacy will not allow Unknown because it is discriptive!!/*

Legacy certain "allows" descriptive terms.  My database has lots of
"Unknown" as forename and/or surname.  Legacy doesn't *like* it at
first, but I just tell it to ignore my little foibles and it happily
gets on with things and doesn't bother me again.

--
Jenny M Benson



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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

[Gene Hutson]

I dunno, been doing it that way for years.

   Gene

From: Marge Counterman
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:00 AM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

Legacy won't accept Unknown!!
  - Original Message -
  From: Gene Hutson
  To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:05 AM
  Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

  If it were me, I’d leave a ‘dummy’ in there, say “Unknown” “Unknown”
  married abt  to preserve the marriage, this also gives me a visual cue
  that more work is needed.

 my 2 cents worth.

Gene



  From: Marge Counterman
  Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 1:35 AM
  To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
  Subject: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

  Ok,  I think I will leave the given name blank as others suggested.  But what 
happens if you know there were two marriages and you only have given data on 
the second marriage?  When I went to remove the undesired "Unknown" given name 
of first wife there was no marriage at all for the first marriage.  How do you 
keep the first marriage with no name and no date of marriage and no children?


  Marge


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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

[Marge Counterman]

MessageThank you.  Food for thought.  But, is "not known" discriptive?  Legacy 
will not allow Unknown because it is discriptive!!
  - Original Message -
  From: Boyd Miller
  To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:19 AM
  Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution


  My approach is this.  You have
  · a second marriage but you don’t know who the other spouse was - 
put “not known” (all lower case) as a given name

  · siblings but don’t know either of the parents - put surname 
(same as siblings) for father only, leave mother blank

  · mother and children but don’t know the father  - put “not 
known” as father’s given name so as not to compromise the children’s surname

  · father and children but no mother  - put “not known” as a 
mother’s given name.

  In the absence of a name Legacy sometimes introduces “Unknown”, so to 
distinguish from this my choice is usually “not known“ in the given name field, 
You can always find these not known "people" from a given name sort of the name 
list.

  Boyd

-Original Message-
From: Gene Hutson [mailto:fish...@q.com]
Sent: Thursday, 24 March 2011 8:06 p.m.
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution


If it were me, I’d leave a ‘dummy’ in there, say “Unknown” “Unknown”
married abt  to preserve the marriage, this also gives me a visual cue
that more work is needed.

   my 2 cents worth.

  Gene



From: Marge Counterman
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 1:35 AM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
    Subject: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

Ok,  I think I will leave the given name blank as others suggested.  But 
what happens if you know there were two marriages and you only have given data 
on the second marriage?  When I went to remove the undesired "Unknown" given 
name of first wife there was no marriage at all for the first marriage.  How do 
you keep the first marriage with no name and no date of marriage and no 
children?


Marge


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RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

[Boyd Miller]

My approach is this.  You have

. a second marriage but you don't know who the other spouse was
- put "not known" (all lower case) as a given name

. siblings but don't know either of the parents - put surname
(same as siblings) for father only, leave mother blank

. mother and children but don't know the father  - put "not
known" as father's given name so as not to compromise the children's surname

. father and children but no mother  - put "not known" as a
mother's given name.

In the absence of a name Legacy sometimes introduces "Unknown", so to
distinguish from this my choice is usually "not known" in the given name
field, You can always find these not known "people" from a given name sort
of the name list.

Boyd

-Original Message-
From: Gene Hutson [mailto:fish...@q.com]
Sent: Thursday, 24 March 2011 8:06 p.m.
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution


If it were me, I'd leave a 'dummy' in there, say "Unknown" "Unknown"
married abt  to preserve the marriage, this also gives me a visual cue
that more work is needed.

   my 2 cents worth.

  Gene



From: Marge Counterman <mailto:margecounter...@frontier.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 1:35 AM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

Ok,  I think I will leave the given name blank as others suggested.  But
what happens if you know there were two marriages and you only have given
data on the second marriage?  When I went to remove the undesired "Unknown"
given name of first wife there was no marriage at all for the first
marriage.  How do you keep the first marriage with no name and no date of
marriage and no children?


Marge


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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

[Gene Hutson]

If it were me, I’d leave a ‘dummy’ in there, say “Unknown” “Unknown”
married abt  to preserve the marriage, this also gives me a visual cue
that more work is needed.

   my 2 cents worth.

  Gene



From: Marge Counterman
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 1:35 AM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: [LegacyUG] Unknown given name solution

Ok,  I think I will leave the given name blank as others suggested.  But what 
happens if you know there were two marriages and you only have given data on 
the second marriage?  When I went to remove the undesired "Unknown" given name 
of first wife there was no marriage at all for the first marriage.  How do you 
keep the first marriage with no name and no date of marriage and no children?


Marge


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RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown Names in Legacy

[listsngroups]

There are many painfully humorous stories of people spending years searching 
for their Unk" line, when it was actually an abbreviation for "Unknown". What 
if you had an ancestor from Italy, for example, who filled out a tree and used 
the word "sconosciuto" for the last name? Few Americans would know that it was 
the Italian word for "unknown". We hope our distant relatives in other 
countries will someday help us with our common tree. Let's be sure we don't 
inadvertently throw up a roadblock.
Dee

-Original Message-
From: Bob Bashford [mailto:older...@rochester.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 12:02 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Names in Legacy


You can try using FirstName or LastName ... makes them searchable, too ...

Or UFN and ULN ...

Bob

On 3/21/2011 11:20 AM, Joshua Crump wrote:
> I currently have people in my family tree with unknown first names and
> other people with unknown surnames. When I print a report I can't tell
> if some names are first names  or surnames. What is the best way to
> enter names in Legacy? Should I put questions marks in the unknown
> fields or is there an option in Legacy I can turn on to display the
> names right?
>
> Thanks for the help,
> Joshua Crump
> j...@joshuacrump.com
> MCTS
>
>
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
>
> http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
>
>





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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Names in Legacy

[Brian/Support]

The easiest way, and it requires no entry of fillers such as ? or
"firstname" "lastname", is to use one of the options in the reports. You
can choose to have surnames surrounded with /surname/ or have surnames
in ALLCAPS. That will quickly differentiate between people with only
first names and those with only surnames.

To find those options, open any report then click on the report options
button. The surname options are on the Format tab of the report options
screen.

Brian
Customer Support
Millennia Corporation
br...@legacyfamilytree.com
http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com

We are changing the world of genealogy!
When replying to this message, please include all previous correspondence.
Thanks.

On 21/03/2011 11:20 AM, Joshua Crump wrote:
> I currently have people in my family tree with unknown first names and
> other people with unknown surnames. When I print a report I can't tell
> if some names are first names  or surnames. What is the best way to
> enter names in Legacy? Should I put questions marks in the unknown
> fields or is there an option in Legacy I can turn on to display the
> names right?
>
> Thanks for the help,
> Joshua Crump
> j...@joshuacrump.com
> MCTS



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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Names in Legacy

[Bob Bashford]

You can try using FirstName or LastName ... makes them searchable, too ...

Or UFN and ULN ...

Bob

On 3/21/2011 11:20 AM, Joshua Crump wrote:
> I currently have people in my family tree with unknown first names and
> other people with unknown surnames. When I print a report I can't tell
> if some names are first names  or surnames. What is the best way to
> enter names in Legacy? Should I put questions marks in the unknown
> fields or is there an option in Legacy I can turn on to display the
> names right?
>
> Thanks for the help,
> Joshua Crump
> j...@joshuacrump.com
> MCTS
>
>
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
>
> http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
>
> Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
>
> Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/
>
> Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp
>
> To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
>
>
>
>
>





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RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown Names in Legacy

[David C Abernathy]

I use "?" for all unknown name first names or surnames. This even helps when 
viewing them in the Name list within the program.

Thanks,
David C Abernathy
Email disclaimers

This message represents the official view of the voices in my head.

http://www.SchmeckAbernathy.com
== All outgoing and incoming mail is scanned by F-Prot Antivirus  ==

-Original Message-
From: Joshua Crump [mailto:j...@joshuacrump.com]
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 8:21 AM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: [LegacyUG] Unknown Names in Legacy

I currently have people in my family tree with unknown first names and
other people with unknown surnames. When I print a report I can't tell
if some names are first names  or surnames. What is the best way to
enter names in Legacy? Should I put questions marks in the unknown
fields or is there an option in Legacy I can turn on to display the
names right?

Thanks for the help,
Joshua Crump
j...@joshuacrump.com
MCTS




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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Names in Legacy

[Sherry/Support]

Best to leave the names blank.  Why? you ask.

1. You can search on missing names by clicking on Search and selecting
the "Missing Information" tab.

If you enter *anything* in a data field, then the search won't
recognize the information as missing.

2. In Descendant and Ancestor book reports, you can "Insert Underlines
for Missing:" given/surnames or dates/places.  Again, if anything is
entered in one of those fields, then the program won't recognize the
data as missing.

Generally it's pretty obvious if a name is a given or surname,
although there are some names which could be either.

If you go to the Format tab of Report Options, you can select to put
slashes around surnames or have the surnames show in uppercase.
Either one of those options (I prefer the uppercase surname) will make
the surname stand out.




Sincerely,
Sherry
Technical Support
Legacy Family Tree



On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 8:20 AM, Joshua Crump  wrote:
> I currently have people in my family tree with unknown first names and
> other people with unknown surnames. When I print a report I can't tell
> if some names are first names  or surnames. What is the best way to
> enter names in Legacy? Should I put questions marks in the unknown
> fields or is there an option in Legacy I can turn on to display the
> names right?
>
> Thanks for the help,
> Joshua Crump
> j...@joshuacrump.com
> MCTS



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[LegacyUG] Unknown Names in Legacy

[Joshua Crump]

I currently have people in my family tree with unknown first names and
other people with unknown surnames. When I print a report I can't tell
if some names are first names  or surnames. What is the best way to
enter names in Legacy? Should I put questions marks in the unknown
fields or is there an option in Legacy I can turn on to display the
names right?

Thanks for the help,
Joshua Crump
j...@joshuacrump.com
MCTS




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RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren

[Sheri Harris]

You have all given me some great ideas on how to handle this. I'm going to
play around with your suggestions and see which will work the best for me. I
do use the to-do list and research notes quite a bit and for the majority of
the tasks this works well for me, but in this particular instance, these
unknown's seem to fall in the cracks. Maybe it's the way I use these
features. My research time is so limited, sometimes I just need that
information to be right where I can see it, or 'slap me in the face', when I
look at a family. Again my hats off to all of you on your skills and expert
knowledge.



Thank you!



Sheri Harris

Georgia



Researching the families of West, Harris, Trimmer, McDonald, Prater, Moose,
and more

www.westharrisfamily.com



  _

From: Sheri Harris [mailto:sharr...@comcast.net]
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 5:41 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren



Would like your advice on how to handle the following situations.

For example, 1) an obituary lists 10 grandchildren and 5 great-grandchildren
as survivors, but does not list names. Or, 2) it lists the names of these
grandchildren, but it's not obvious as to who their parents are.

So far I've just put this information in my notes section referencing my
source and adding that to my to-do list but this is not working for me. I
want to keep as much information in Legacy as possible so I'm thinking about
creating an event called Grandchildren, Survivors or something similar, and
listing those named. If I enter these as an event, I can attach certain
research files, etc., to that particular event, and notes in the note
section not to mention searching for these entries would be easier using
events at least for me at the moment.

I'm by no means a professional, just an intermediate family researcher, so
before I start this, would like to know what other options are out there.

Thank you for any help you have. I learn so much from this group!

Sheri Harris
Georgia

Researching the families of West, Harris, Trimmer, McDonald, Prater, Moose,
Stockburger, Daugherty, Elliott, Atchley and Haney
www.westharrisfamily.com




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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren

[Melanie Armstrong]

If I don't know a surname I put _ surname. That way if I send it to 
another researcher they can fill in the blank if they know the information.
  Melanie Armstrong

--- On Tue, 3/1/11, Kathy Shiell-Stokes  wrote:

From: Kathy Shiell-Stokes 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Date: Tuesday, March 1, 2011, 8:46 AM



Jerry:

My approach is to put any identifying information that I use in place of
a surname or given name inside [[]]that way it is always visible to
me but can be toggled so that it does not print...At 04:58 PM 2/28/2011,
you wrote:


---

I've seen the references to unknown names and lots of question marks


that genealogists have used for years, but I don't know if there is a


standard for unknown names



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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren

[Kathy Shiell-Stokes]

Jerry:
My approach is to put any identifying information that I use in place
of a surname or given name inside [[]]that way it is always
visible to me but can be toggled so that it does not print...At 04:58
PM 2/28/2011, you wrote:
>---
>I've seen the references to unknown names and lots of question marks
>that genealogists have used for years, but I don't know if there is a
>standard for unknown names



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RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren

[Kirsten Bowman]

Ron:

It's truly a red letter day!

Kirsten

-Original Message-
From: Ron Ferguson [mailto:ronfergy@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 5:17 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren


Kirsten,

I'm amazed; nay, shocked, to find that for once I am in agreement with 'a
standard'! Albeit one that I had never heard of!!

Ron Ferguson
http://www.fergys.co.uk/

-Original Message-
From: Kirsten Bowman
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 11:32 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren

Jerry:

The recommended standard (_Getting It Right_ by Mary H. Slawson) is to leave
the field blank if you don't have the data.  That, however, is unacceptable
to many (most?) researchers so everyone seems to develop their own
method--and none of these are universally accepted.  The only thing that is
strongly discouraged is the use of abbreviations such as Unk, LNU, NMI
(Unknown, Last Name Unknown, No Middle Initial) etc.

Kirsten






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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren

[Ron Ferguson]

Kirsten,

I'm amazed; nay, shocked, to find that for once I am in agreement with 'a
standard'! Albeit one that I had never heard of!!

Ron Ferguson
http://www.fergys.co.uk/

-Original Message-
From: Kirsten Bowman
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 11:32 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren

Jerry:

The recommended standard (_Getting It Right_ by Mary H. Slawson) is to leave
the field blank if you don't have the data.  That, however, is unacceptable
to many (most?) researchers so everyone seems to develop their own
method--and none of these are universally accepted.  The only thing that is
strongly discouraged is the use of abbreviations such as Unk, LNU, NMI
(Unknown, Last Name Unknown, No Middle Initial) etc.

Kirsten

-Original Message-
From: Jerry [mailto:jerrysemailgro...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 1:59 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren


On 02/28/2011 11:53 AM, Dennis M. Kowallek wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 17:40:31 -0500, "Sheri Harris"
>   wrote:
>
>> So far I've just put this information in my notes section referencing my
>> source and adding that to my to-do list but this is not working for me.
>
> I essentially do what you are doing. But I don't think you explained why
> it isn't working.
>

---
I've seen the references to unknown names and lots of question marks
that genealogists have used for years, but I don't know if there is a
standard for unknown names.   If there is, I'd like to know what is the
standard and why.   But I dislike the idea intensely of putting Lastname
?, Unknown Name ? or the many other ways that you see out there, so we
developed our own method, which I think has some merit because it can
give a hint to find that unknown name because of his/her relationship to
another person.

For example, on our website, you will see things like:

BEEMER, Edna ? (Wife of William) - that means we don't have Edna's last
name, but we know she was married to William BEEMER.

BEADLE, Given Name ? (Husband of Sarah Ann MADILL) - that means we don't
have Mr. Beadle's first name, but we know he was married to Sarah Ann
Madill).

DOE, Given Name ? (Son #1 of Paul) - that means we don't have a first
name for a son of Paul DOE.

It might be irregular, but it is a means of putting information about
that person directly in the name field, and therefore, it appears in the
master name index as a ready-reference for everyone using the site.

I just thought I'd share that and see what some of your ideas are.

Regards,
Jerry / http://www.MerriamFamilyTree.org





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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren

[Eliz Hanebury]

I tend to use "unknown to me" and "know only from census" it reminds
me to look for the information fairly regularly 



Eliz

On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 6:32 PM, Kirsten Bowman  wrote:
> Jerry:
>
> The recommended standard (_Getting It Right_ by Mary H. Slawson) is to leave 
> the field blank if you don't have the data.  That, however, is unacceptable 
> to many (most?) researchers so everyone seems to develop their own 
> method--and none of these are universally accepted.  The only thing that is 
> strongly discouraged is the use of abbreviations such as Unk, LNU, NMI 
> (Unknown, Last Name Unknown, No Middle Initial) etc.
>
> Kirsten
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jerry [mailto:jerrysemailgro...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 1:59 PM
> To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
> Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren
>
>
> On 02/28/2011 11:53 AM, Dennis M. Kowallek wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 17:40:31 -0500, "Sheri Harris"
>>   wrote:
>>
>>> So far I've just put this information in my notes section referencing my
>>> source and adding that to my to-do list but this is not working for me.
>>
>> I essentially do what you are doing. But I don't think you explained why
>> it isn't working.
>>
>
> ---
> I've seen the references to unknown names and lots of question marks
> that genealogists have used for years, but I don't know if there is a
> standard for unknown names.   If there is, I'd like to know what is the
> standard and why.   But I dislike the idea intensely of putting Lastname
> ?, Unknown Name ? or the many other ways that you see out there, so we
> developed our own method, which I think has some merit because it can
> give a hint to find that unknown name because of his/her relationship to
> another person.
>
> For example, on our website, you will see things like:
>
> BEEMER, Edna ? (Wife of William) - that means we don't have Edna's last
> name, but we know she was married to William BEEMER.
>
> BEADLE, Given Name ? (Husband of Sarah Ann MADILL) - that means we don't
> have Mr. Beadle's first name, but we know he was married to Sarah Ann
> Madill).
>
> DOE, Given Name ? (Son #1 of Paul) - that means we don't have a first
> name for a son of Paul DOE.
>
> It might be irregular, but it is a means of putting information about
> that person directly in the name field, and therefore, it appears in the
> master name index as a ready-reference for everyone using the site.
>
> I just thought I'd share that and see what some of your ideas are.
>
> Regards,
> Jerry / http://www.MerriamFamilyTree.org
>
>
>
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
>
>   http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
>
> Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009:
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>
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>
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>
>
>
>



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RE: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren

[Kirsten Bowman]

Jerry:

The recommended standard (_Getting It Right_ by Mary H. Slawson) is to leave 
the field blank if you don't have the data.  That, however, is unacceptable to 
many (most?) researchers so everyone seems to develop their own method--and 
none of these are universally accepted.  The only thing that is strongly 
discouraged is the use of abbreviations such as Unk, LNU, NMI (Unknown, Last 
Name Unknown, No Middle Initial) etc.

Kirsten

-Original Message-
From: Jerry [mailto:jerrysemailgro...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 1:59 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren


On 02/28/2011 11:53 AM, Dennis M. Kowallek wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 17:40:31 -0500, "Sheri Harris"
>   wrote:
>
>> So far I've just put this information in my notes section referencing my
>> source and adding that to my to-do list but this is not working for me.
>
> I essentially do what you are doing. But I don't think you explained why
> it isn't working.
>

---
I've seen the references to unknown names and lots of question marks
that genealogists have used for years, but I don't know if there is a
standard for unknown names.   If there is, I'd like to know what is the
standard and why.   But I dislike the idea intensely of putting Lastname
?, Unknown Name ? or the many other ways that you see out there, so we
developed our own method, which I think has some merit because it can
give a hint to find that unknown name because of his/her relationship to
another person.

For example, on our website, you will see things like:

BEEMER, Edna ? (Wife of William) - that means we don't have Edna's last
name, but we know she was married to William BEEMER.

BEADLE, Given Name ? (Husband of Sarah Ann MADILL) - that means we don't
have Mr. Beadle's first name, but we know he was married to Sarah Ann
Madill).

DOE, Given Name ? (Son #1 of Paul) - that means we don't have a first
name for a son of Paul DOE.

It might be irregular, but it is a means of putting information about
that person directly in the name field, and therefore, it appears in the
master name index as a ready-reference for everyone using the site.

I just thought I'd share that and see what some of your ideas are.

Regards,
Jerry / http://www.MerriamFamilyTree.org





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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren

[Jerry]

On 02/28/2011 11:53 AM, Dennis M. Kowallek wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 17:40:31 -0500, "Sheri Harris"
>   wrote:
>
>> So far I've just put this information in my notes section referencing my
>> source and adding that to my to-do list but this is not working for me.
>
> I essentially do what you are doing. But I don't think you explained why
> it isn't working.
>

---
I've seen the references to unknown names and lots of question marks
that genealogists have used for years, but I don't know if there is a
standard for unknown names.   If there is, I'd like to know what is the
standard and why.   But I dislike the idea intensely of putting Lastname
?, Unknown Name ? or the many other ways that you see out there, so we
developed our own method, which I think has some merit because it can
give a hint to find that unknown name because of his/her relationship to
another person.

For example, on our website, you will see things like:

BEEMER, Edna ? (Wife of William) - that means we don't have Edna's last
name, but we know she was married to William BEEMER.

BEADLE, Given Name ? (Husband of Sarah Ann MADILL) - that means we don't
have Mr. Beadle's first name, but we know he was married to Sarah Ann
Madill).

DOE, Given Name ? (Son #1 of Paul) - that means we don't have a first
name for a son of Paul DOE.

It might be irregular, but it is a means of putting information about
that person directly in the name field, and therefore, it appears in the
master name index as a ready-reference for everyone using the site.

I just thought I'd share that and see what some of your ideas are.

Regards,
Jerry / http://www.MerriamFamilyTree.org



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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren

[Dennis M . Kowallek]

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 17:40:31 -0500, "Sheri Harris"
 wrote:

>So far I've just put this information in my notes section referencing my
>source and adding that to my to-do list but this is not working for me.

I essentially do what you are doing. But I don't think you explained why
it isn't working.

--

Dennis Kowallek (LTools)
http://zippersoftware.com/ltools/index.htm
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ltools

P.S. Post in plain text if you want me to read it...



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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren

[Virginia Dunham]

Sheri,

Personally, I like your idea of creating an event...and will be going
through my files during the coming weeks...decided on "Unknown
Grandchildren, etc." Since the event will allow me to note the place
and date of death, I will be able to pull up all users of  that event
and note the locations. That way when I find new sources for any given
area, it will be easy to see what families to search for...

Thanks,
Virginia


> want to keep as much information in Legacy as possible so I'm thinking about
> creating an event called Grandchildren, Survivors or something similar, and
> listing those named. If I enter these as an event, I can attach certain
> research files, etc., to that particular event, and notes in the note
> section not to mention searching for these entries would be easier using
> events at least for me at the moment.
>
> Sheri Harris
> Georgia



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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren

[kramer101]

I create an event for my obituaries and paste the entire obituary in the Notes 
section of that event. I then enter all of the info from obituary that is 
certain. The rest, such as the number of grandchildren or great-grandchildren 
or anything that I cannot figure out due to missing surnames or surnames that 
don't match the prior generation, I put in the Research Notes to work on as I 
find the info. You could make a To Do instead of using the Research Notes. 
There is no way to make up the ratio of grandchildren who were born to which 
children or which great-grandchildren were born to which grandchildren. To me 
it's better to have it in the notes (or maybe the To Do) in order to not look 
back later and try to make the numbers fit in some presumed manner.



God bless,
Ellen


- Original Message -
From: "Sheri Harris" 
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 5:41:00 PM
Subject: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren

Would like your advice on how to handle the following situations.

For example, 1) an obituary lists 10 grandchildren and 5 great-grandchildren
as survivors, but does not list names. Or, 2) it lists the names of these
grandchildren, but it's not obvious as to who their parents are.

So far I've just put this information in my notes section referencing my
source and adding that to my to-do list but this is not working for me. I
want to keep as much information in Legacy as possible so I'm thinking about
creating an event called Grandchildren, Survivors or something similar, and
listing those named. If I enter these as an event, I can attach certain
research files, etc., to that particular event, and notes in the note
section not to mention searching for these entries would be easier using
events at least for me at the moment.

I'm by no means a professional, just an intermediate family researcher, so
before I start this, would like to know what other options are out there.

Thank you for any help you have. I learn so much from this group!

Sheri Harris
Georgia

Researching the families of West, Harris, Trimmer, McDonald, Prater, Moose,
Stockburger, Daugherty, Elliott, Atchley and Haney
www.westharrisfamily.com




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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren

[Eliz Hanebury]

Oh I like that, you can see at a glance that you know nothing  I
use place holders a lot but usually don't enter a first name. As of
now they will be place holder (surname)




Eliz

On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 5:52 PM, John Roose  wrote:
> Sherri -
>
> The way I have handle it when I have names (would work without names but I
> haven't faced that yet) is to enter a child to the grandparents whose first
> name is "Placeholder" and is of "?" sex, ie, neither male nor female. I then
> list all the grand children/great grandchildren as appropriate. That way I
> can continue to "see" them in a proper place, add data to them as I find it.
> When I can confirm their parents I just unlink from Placeholder and link to
> proper parents. When there are no more children under Placeholder, I just
> delete that one. Works for me.
>
> John
>
> On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 5:40 PM, Sheri Harris  wrote:
>>
>> Would like your advice on how to handle the following situations.
>>
>> For example, 1) an obituary lists 10 grandchildren and 5
>> great-grandchildren
>> as survivors, but does not list names. Or, 2) it lists the names of these
>> grandchildren, but it's not obvious as to who their parents are.
>>
>> So far I've just put this information in my notes section referencing my
>> source and adding that to my to-do list but this is not working for me. I
>> want to keep as much information in Legacy as possible so I'm thinking
>> about
>> creating an event called Grandchildren, Survivors or something similar,
>> and
>> listing those named. If I enter these as an event, I can attach certain
>> research files, etc., to that particular event, and notes in the note
>> section not to mention searching for these entries would be easier using
>> events at least for me at the moment.
>>
>> I'm by no means a professional, just an intermediate family researcher, so
>> before I start this, would like to know what other options are out there.
>>
>> Thank you for any help you have. I learn so much from this group!
>>
>> Sheri Harris
>> Georgia
>>
>> Researching the families of West, Harris, Trimmer, McDonald, Prater,
>> Moose,
>> Stockburger, Daugherty, Elliott, Atchley and Haney
>> www.westharrisfamily.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Legacy User Group guidelines:
>>
>>   http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
>>
>> Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009:
>>
>>   http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>> To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Genealogy - - - - - it's in my blood!
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
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Re: [LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren

[John Roose]

Sherri -

The way I have handle it when I have names (would work without names but I
haven't faced that yet) is to enter a child to the grandparents whose first
name is "Placeholder" and is of "?" sex, ie, neither male nor female. I then
list all the grand children/great grandchildren as appropriate. That way I
can continue to "see" them in a proper place, add data to them as I find it.
When I can confirm their parents I just unlink from Placeholder and link to
proper parents. When there are no more children under Placeholder, I just
delete that one. Works for me.

John

On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 5:40 PM, Sheri Harris  wrote:

> Would like your advice on how to handle the following situations.
>
> For example, 1) an obituary lists 10 grandchildren and 5
> great-grandchildren
> as survivors, but does not list names. Or, 2) it lists the names of these
> grandchildren, but it's not obvious as to who their parents are.
>
> So far I've just put this information in my notes section referencing my
> source and adding that to my to-do list but this is not working for me. I
> want to keep as much information in Legacy as possible so I'm thinking
> about
> creating an event called Grandchildren, Survivors or something similar, and
> listing those named. If I enter these as an event, I can attach certain
> research files, etc., to that particular event, and notes in the note
> section not to mention searching for these entries would be easier using
> events at least for me at the moment.
>
> I'm by no means a professional, just an intermediate family researcher, so
> before I start this, would like to know what other options are out there.
>
> Thank you for any help you have. I learn so much from this group!
>
> Sheri Harris
> Georgia
>
> Researching the families of West, Harris, Trimmer, McDonald, Prater, Moose,
> Stockburger, Daugherty, Elliott, Atchley and Haney
> www.westharrisfamily.com
>
>
>
>
> Legacy User Group guidelines:
>
>   
> http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp
>
> Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009:
>
>   http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
>


--
Genealogy - - - - - it's in my blood!



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[LegacyUG] Unknown Grandchildren/G-Grandchildren

[Sheri Harris]

Would like your advice on how to handle the following situations.

For example, 1) an obituary lists 10 grandchildren and 5 great-grandchildren
as survivors, but does not list names. Or, 2) it lists the names of these
grandchildren, but it's not obvious as to who their parents are.

So far I've just put this information in my notes section referencing my
source and adding that to my to-do list but this is not working for me. I
want to keep as much information in Legacy as possible so I'm thinking about
creating an event called Grandchildren, Survivors or something similar, and
listing those named. If I enter these as an event, I can attach certain
research files, etc., to that particular event, and notes in the note
section not to mention searching for these entries would be easier using
events at least for me at the moment.

I'm by no means a professional, just an intermediate family researcher, so
before I start this, would like to know what other options are out there.

Thank you for any help you have. I learn so much from this group!

Sheri Harris
Georgia

Researching the families of West, Harris, Trimmer, McDonald, Prater, Moose,
Stockburger, Daugherty, Elliott, Atchley and Haney
www.westharrisfamily.com




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