[OSM-legal-talk] Privacy and Terms
Dear all One of the things that's resulted from getting help with the license process is that it's been noticed we don't have a lot of the legal furniture, and thus protection and clarity, found frequently elsewhere. We've been offered some fairly standard privacy and terms of use policies: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Privacy_Policy_-_Discussion_Draft http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use_-_Discussion_Draft We've put them up for your input as step 1. These aren't even recommended by us just yet, but to start a discussion on anything that may be bad (or maybe good - that would be novel!) with them? Best Steve ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Privacy and Terms
On 24/06/09 06:56, SteveC wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Privacy_Policy_-_Discussion_Draft The Mozilla project has a privacy policy which I would suggest is rather friendlier, while still being lawyer-approved - at least, US lawyers. I'm sure I could arrange for you to be able to use the appropriate bits of it: http://www.mozilla-europe.org/en/about/privacy/ http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use_-_Discussion_Draft These seem very long indeed. What risks are we mitigating here? If they are significant, why does every website in the world not have to have one of these? Gerv ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Privacy and Terms
Hi, Gervase Markham wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use_-_Discussion_Draft These seem very long indeed. What risks are we mitigating here? If they are significant, why does every website in the world not have to have one of these? Yes, I'm also very tempted to dismiss the idea of having these at all. It sounds quite laughable. I could imagine we would have to have these if we were an US corporation but hey, we're in Europe as long as not too many people vote UKIP once Gordon Brown throws the towel. I guess the rationale behind terms like these is that if user A sues you because user B used the web site to hack A's computer, you can always say but B acted against our terms and conditions. But I don't think that user A's case would hold any water before an European court. Except as otherwise permitted, any use by you of any of the OSMF Materials and OSMF Site other than for your personal use is strictly prohibited. Are we talking about osmfoundation.org or openstreetmap.org? Because if it is the latter, which parts of the web site are NOT under either GPL or CC-BY-SA, making any restriction (personal use only) illegal? I could probably find something idiotic in every paragraph if I put my mind to it but I'd rather do something else. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Privacy and Terms
On Jun 24, 2009, at 4:31 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: I could probably find something idiotic in every paragraph if I put my mind to it but I'd rather do something else. Some of the stuff is there simply by virtue of having any terms of use at all, e.g. Assignment, Survival, or Claims. Some of the stuff is there because of stupid-ass legislation which violates various laws (e.g. if the site is going to be used by underaged children (which of course it will) we would have to treat them differently (at least according to US law) except of course we have no freaking idea how old they are, so we just tell everyone to lie and pretend that they're of-age which of course breaks the law that you shouldn't induce peaceful honest people to lie.) Some of the stuff is there to help enforce the database license. If we had a license that didn't give us the occasion to sue anybody, we wouldn't need terms like that, but in fact we DO plan to sue SOMEBODY, sooner or later. And it's only reasonable to then be able to say in court Haumph, you used our website on these various occasions; continued use implies that you did IN FACT agree to abide by our distribution license. You can argue whether the terms are effective, but you can't argue against their existence in principle. Some of the stuff is there to make sure that we have the right to redistribute contributions to OSM. This is important and useful. Removal of content is a good term to have in place. I get mailing list subscribers asking me to remove their email address from the archives. I ignore them, thinking Too late! Think before you email! But if someone comes at me with a legal threat, and I have no contributor's agrement to point them to, I'm pretty-much going to have no choice but to remove their address. Prohibited uses just gives us the right to kick fucking assholes in the butt. Sure, self-defense is the right of all civilized people, but remember this: a judge can ALWAYS get up on the wrong side of the bed and rule incorrectly. If you have verbiage in your TC that lets you point out, in appeal, excuse me, but we *did* tell them exactly what would happen if they did that, and we did it, so they have no reason to prevail in a judgement. And if you think that you're safe just because you live in Europe, consider that the OSMF provides services in the USA. It can say to the judge we don't operate in the US; this person has no opportunity to sue us, but who knows what might happen in the future? Maybe one of the principals of the OSMF might fly through the US, or move to the US, or start a US company. -- Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson r...@cloudmade.com - Twitter: Russ_OSM - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Privacy and Terms
2009/6/25 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: Yeah, sure, and if I leave the house a brick might fall on my head and I'd be dead. I'm almost sure you wanted to write tile ;-) cheers, Martin ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Privacy and Terms
2009/6/25 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: For example, if we build strong national chapters that, legally, are separate from OSMF, these could easily between themselves set up all the servers required to replace everything OSMF operates. With such a healthy backup network, it would not even make much sense for anybody to try and kill off OSMF. This includes not giving anything to OSMF that has commercial value unless that is absolutely necessary. In the long term, I hope that we'll be able to switch to a distributed server architecture where OSMF operated assets are but one piece of the puzzle, rather than the head of everything. Hallo Frederik, kennst Du couchdb? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CouchDB Ich habe leider selbst keine Ahnung von Datenbanken, aber die bietet wohl eine gute Möglichkeit, auf vielen verschiedenen Servern gleichzeitíg zu laufen. Keine Ahnung wie performant das ist, wo die Probleme liegen,etc. aber beim sie scheint ähnlich wie das OSM-Modell strukturiert zu sein (Key/Value-Paare). Vielleicht ist das Thema ja in Entwicklerkreisen sowieso schon längst bekannt, aber bei Deinem aktuellen Beitrag kam mir wieder der Gedanke und ich dachte, ich schreib Dir mal. Gruß Martin ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Privacy and Terms
2009/6/25 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: Hallo Frederik oops, sorry, not for the list. Martin ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
