Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [GIS-Kosova] OSM road network for Kosova
Bekim The basic issue is likely to be that we never received permission to distribute the original imported data with the ODbL implying that the date had to be removed prior to the licence change. The redaction process was designed to preserve as much work as possible is such situations, but for example if the original data had road names those will have not survived the redaction. The consequences of not agreeing to the CTs and/or not getting permission for continuing distribution of imported data were very clear to the relevant contributors and their failure to do so is something you should take up with them. Simon Am 04.03.2013 15:31, schrieb Bekim Kajtazi: Hello Michael, Just to let you know that I never heard back from anyone on the issue of the road data for Kosovo. I am not sure how things work, but I was very unhappy that all that data was removed after hundreds of work hours made by many volunteers in Kosova to update the original dataset which was coming from a dated source. Now I see the maps has a lost of new roads but the old dataset is not incorporated, so not sure if anything can be done at all if there's a possibility to combine something. Any advise, recommendation would be welcome. Best, Bekim On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz mailto:m...@ayeltd.biz wrote: Hi Bekim, If nobody else gives you feedback I will do so next week. I am away at the moment. Regards, Michael Collinson On 20 Sep 2012, at 19:11, Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com mailto:bekim.kajt...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Mike, Hopefully someone will send some feedback. Best, Bekim On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com mailto:jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: I dont understand that myself, it seems a bit fuzzy to me but this is the right mailing list and I hope you will get some feedback, thanks mike On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com mailto:bekim.kajt...@gmail.com wrote: Ok but I don't know how to go about and do that! That's my problem. Where is the starting point? I am ready to approve, sign, confirm anything required! Best, Bekim On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com mailto:jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Bekim, I have been working on understanding the new license even today. it is cc-by-sa + database rights (odbl) + the right for osm to change the licence at will in the future. basically you need to grant the osm the rights to use the data, Michael can give you more info about this, thanks, mike On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com mailto:bekim.kajt...@gmail.com wrote: Gent's, Some days ago I noticed that all those detailed roads that were on OSM in Kosova were removed. Does anyone have any information, like when? why? were removed. I am about to contact OSM and any assistance and additional information is welcome! Best, Bekim -- about.me/bekim http://about.me/bekim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups GIS Kosova group. To post to this group, send email to gis-kos...@googlegroups.com mailto:gis-kos...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to gis-kosova+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:gis-kosova%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/gis-kosova?hl=en. -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 -- about.me/bekim http://about.me/bekim -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] produced work vs. derivative db
I've tried to put extra information on several wiki pages: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Produced_Work_-_Guideline http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Use_Cases#When_is_something_a_Derivative_Database_when_is_it_a_Produced_Work_and_can_it_be_both (please check the wording) generally the answer to question is it produced work or derivative database? is doesn't really matter, even if it were produced work, you are obliged to published the underlaying derivative database however, on several pages under the use cases wiki page, eg http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Use_Cases#Using_OSM_data_for_the_production_of_a_hand-made_map still set a hard line between produced work and derivative database. michal On Mon, Mar 04, 2013 at 08:15:57PM +0100, Michal Palenik wrote: may i add a question into faq/use cases: Q: I want to publish a slippy map/printed map based on OSM data. Is it a produced work or derivated database? A: The slippy map itself is a produced work, however the database you used has to meet the same requirements as published derived database or a collective database. In other words, publishing this produced work implies that you have the same obligations as when publishing the database itself. or a better wording. which would clarify the odbl-ty of the data. On Mon, Mar 04, 2013 at 05:15:04PM +, Jonathan Harley wrote: On 04/03/13 16:53, Michal Palenik wrote: after reading all the documents/wiki/mailinglist I am still confused: what forces producers to publish a derivative database and not just produced work? Clause 4.6 of the ODbL, which says if you publish a produced work you must make the database it was produced from available. usecase: a user takes a substantial part of osm db, hand modifies it (eg changes name of a street to correct one, make a new hiking route ...) and then publishes it as an online tilemap/printed map. claiming it to be a produced work under a commercial licence. is it a produced work? The online tilemap and printed map are a produced work. is it also a derivative database? (if so, which odbl clause kicks in to state this?) The database is a derivative database as defined in the definitions section. Correcting names and adding hiking routes which connect with OSM's data is exactly the sort of data the share-alike clause is intended to capture. thanks michal HTH! Jonathan. -- Dr Jonathan Harley :Managing Director: SpiffyMap Ltd m...@spiffymap.com Phone: 0845 313 8457 www.spiffymap.com The Venture Centre, Sir William Lyons Road, Coventry CV4 7EZ, UK ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- michal palenik www.freemap.sk www.oma.sk http://wiki.freemap.sk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- michal palenik www.freemap.sk www.oma.sk http://wiki.freemap.sk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [GIS-Kosova] OSM road network for Kosova
Hello Simone, Thanks for getting back on this one. *Well, I **was never contacted by anyone about the license.* Nevertheless, once I noticed the data missing from the map I tried to reach out to those that I knew in the community. Mike DuPont tried to help and Michael Collinson was looking into it [see email reply from him dated 21/Sept/2012], yet nothing was resolved. I just feel bad and is disappointing that all that hard work on digitizing the data [it took over a year to trace all those routs and roads from 25k topo map] at first, and then all the correcting it and [re]tracing by volunteers it was lost! Totally not in the spirit of OPEN if you ask me. Best, Bekim On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 3:49 AM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: Bekim The basic issue is likely to be that we never received permission to distribute the original imported data with the ODbL implying that the date had to be removed prior to the licence change. The redaction process was designed to preserve as much work as possible is such situations, but for example if the original data had road names those will have not survived the redaction. The consequences of not agreeing to the CTs and/or not getting permission for continuing distribution of imported data were very clear to the relevant contributors and their failure to do so is something you should take up with them. Simon Am 04.03.2013 15:31, schrieb Bekim Kajtazi: Hello Michael, Just to let you know that I never heard back from anyone on the issue of the road data for Kosovo. I am not sure how things work, but I was very unhappy that all that data was removed after hundreds of work hours made by many volunteers in Kosova to update the original dataset which was coming from a dated source. Now I see the maps has a lost of new roads but the old dataset is not incorporated, so not sure if anything can be done at all if there's a possibility to combine something. Any advise, recommendation would be welcome. Best, Bekim On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.bizwrote: Hi Bekim, If nobody else gives you feedback I will do so next week. I am away at the moment. Regards, Michael Collinson On 20 Sep 2012, at 19:11, Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Mike, Hopefully someone will send some feedback. Best, Bekim On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: I dont understand that myself, it seems a bit fuzzy to me but this is the right mailing list and I hope you will get some feedback, thanks mike On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com wrote: Ok but I don't know how to go about and do that! That's my problem. Where is the starting point? I am ready to approve, sign, confirm anything required! Best, Bekim On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Bekim, I have been working on understanding the new license even today. it is cc-by-sa + database rights (odbl) + the right for osm to change the licence at will in the future. basically you need to grant the osm the rights to use the data, Michael can give you more info about this, thanks, mike On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com wrote: Gent's, Some days ago I noticed that all those detailed roads that were on OSM in Kosova were removed. Does anyone have any information, like when? why? were removed. I am about to contact OSM and any assistance and additional information is welcome! Best, Bekim -- about.me/bekim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups GIS Kosova group. To post to this group, send email to gis-kos...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to gis-kosova+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/gis-kosova?hl=en. -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 -- about.me/bekim -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 -- about.me/bekim -- about.me/bekim ___ legal-talk mailing listlegal-talk@openstreetmap.orghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [GIS-Kosova] OSM road network for Kosova
The whole license change has been drawn out over several years. We have been trying very hard to reach out and contact as many decliners as possible. At some point it had to go forward though. The problem was that the longer they were waiting to go ahead with it, is that people were contributing on a foundation of quicksand. Every change that has been added after a deliner touched it, has been thrown away. So, I'm glad we finally have that behind us, so now we can concentrate on 'recruiting' more contributors. If I understand correctly, it should be possible to undo the work of the license bot retroactively, but I guess that's only interesting for larger regions. It's probably going to cost an administrator a good deal of time to do it. Jo 2013/3/7 Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com Whatever case it is...the data is gone!!! On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/3/7 Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com: Well, I was never contacted by anyone about the license. there are some conditions when this could happen: 1. You registered after a certain date, so you already had signed a CT at registration that allowed publishing your work under cc-by-sa and or ODbL 2. You missed the mail because the email account you communicated on registration was not active because a) mailbox full b) you changed your email provider c) your provider didn't exist any more d) the mail went to the spam folder and you didn't notice ... cheers, Martin ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- about.me/bekim ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [GIS-Kosova] OSM road network for Kosova
Am 07/mar/2013 um 16:21 schrieb Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com: Whatever case it is...the data is gone!!! Generally it is your responsibility to keep your contact information up to date. I sent 2 times around 100-200 emails to the major contributors to OSM on the Italian grounds which had not decided on the CTs by the time and many of them didn't reach the mapper because he didn't care or forgot to update his email. Btw.: You have had to be a really hardcore (main page sidebars, wiki, mailing list, twitter, blog, forum) ignorer if despite being active in OSM you missed the license change. cheers, Martin ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [GIS-Kosova] OSM road network for Kosova
Btw.: You have had to be a really hardcore (main page sidebars, wiki, mailing list, twitter, blog, forum) ignorer if despite being active in OSM you missed the license change. Funny you say that...Was it me who had to contact OSM and approve the license change or other way around. I had been informed by FLOSSK [ http://www.flossk.org/] members that OSM will send an email about new license, I never did receive anything ,as I said earlier. The other point that surprises me is that all the replies I have received in last couple of days are how possible I did not see, or ignored the notices, and what not...anyway, I am not interested to be confrontational on this matter, I had sent email asking about what's going on ... and you could have seen that if you had red the entire email chain going back for more than 6 months now. To help understand better, this is how data got into OSM: I digitized the data from topo maps Shared the SHP File with FLOSSK in Prishtina FLOSSK recruited many volunteers to get the data in OSM Few months later data was removed from OSM Anyway, unless there is a way to get some of that data back into the map, then I don't see any benefit of continuing this conversation. Thanks you, Bekim On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Am 07/mar/2013 um 16:21 schrieb Bekim Kajtazi bekim.kajt...@gmail.com: Whatever case it is...the data is gone!!! Generally it is your responsibility to keep your contact information up to date. I sent 2 times around 100-200 emails to the major contributors to OSM on the Italian grounds which had not decided on the CTs by the time and many of them didn't reach the mapper because he didn't care or forgot to update his email. Btw.: You have had to be a really hardcore (main page sidebars, wiki, mailing list, twitter, blog, forum) ignorer if despite being active in OSM you missed the license change. cheers, Martin ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- about.me/bekim ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [GIS-Kosova] OSM road network for Kosova
Am 07.03.2013 17:20, schrieb Bekim Kajtazi: To help understand better, this is how data got into OSM: I digitized the data from topo maps Shared the SHP File with FLOSSK in Prishtina FLOSSK recruited many volunteers to get the data in OSM Few months later data was removed from OSM Anyway, unless there is a way to get some of that data back into the map, then I don't see any benefit of continuing this conversation. Assuming a) the topo maps are a legit source (out of copyright or explicit permission) and b) you still have the SHP files, sure it is still possible (and if it is just by providing the files as an overlay which is preferable to an import anyway). From the mails it would seem as if you do not actually have an OSM account or at least you were not involved with the importing yourself, then I can only point back to the importers. They would have had it in their hands to document the import properly, provide support during the licence change if explicit permission for further use was necessary and so on. Simon ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk