Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Legal requirements of permissions to import into OSM
I wonder if pointing the local governments to http://opendatacommons.org/ might be a good start. I've been considering providing some cities I've contact with a link to Open Data Commons to help them make the right decision. Clifford On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Svavar Kjarrval wrote: > Thanks for the response and the references. > > Maybe it's not as big as I think it is. While I would personally prefer > the pure public domain or anything closest to it, the entities are > sometimes reluctant to go that far. Some might accept CC0 (and PDDL > wouldn't be valid) but there are some which would want to require > attribution. Are there any CC-BY versions which have been determined to > be acceptable or any other similar licences? > > I agree with your reluctancy to suggest the ODbL due to future licence > changes. If the community decides to change the licence, there'd be so > much overhead in getting all the entities which published under other > (custom) licences to agree with the new one (even in principle). It's so > easy for them to say no if they foresee many potential future actions on > their part. > > Officials in Iceland don't usually regard granting such licences as a > huge undertaking so they're very prone to suggest making due with > granting the permission via e-mail in a fairly informal manner. If I > were to require a signed paper, some of them might change their minds, > so I'd rather not refuse those offers if I don't have to. The Icelandic > courts have determined that agreements reached/conveyed via email can be > binding but I don't know if that'd be valid under English law. > > - Svavar Kjarrval > > On 24/07/15 16:31, Simon Poole wrote: > > I suspect the problem is not quite as large as you think it might be. > > > > If they want to use a public licence, while it may not be actually > > explicitly said anywhere, CC0 or the PDDL are naturally totally > acceptable. > > > > For one offs/special permission I would suggest using > > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/GettingPermission#Letter_Template3 > > > > > > These are essentially the two standard routes we can take were we don't > > need to make caveats about the data surviving a future licence change. > > > > Naturally there may be other "non-standard" licences that are acceptable > > and there is for example the ODbL which is usable, however has some > > issues particularly wrt a future licence change (and some more on top of > > that). But as said all tend to invoke additional complications which are > > best avoided. > > > > Simon > > > ___ > legal-talk mailing list > legal-talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk > > -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Legal requirements of permissions to import into OSM
Thanks for the response and the references. Maybe it's not as big as I think it is. While I would personally prefer the pure public domain or anything closest to it, the entities are sometimes reluctant to go that far. Some might accept CC0 (and PDDL wouldn't be valid) but there are some which would want to require attribution. Are there any CC-BY versions which have been determined to be acceptable or any other similar licences? I agree with your reluctancy to suggest the ODbL due to future licence changes. If the community decides to change the licence, there'd be so much overhead in getting all the entities which published under other (custom) licences to agree with the new one (even in principle). It's so easy for them to say no if they foresee many potential future actions on their part. Officials in Iceland don't usually regard granting such licences as a huge undertaking so they're very prone to suggest making due with granting the permission via e-mail in a fairly informal manner. If I were to require a signed paper, some of them might change their minds, so I'd rather not refuse those offers if I don't have to. The Icelandic courts have determined that agreements reached/conveyed via email can be binding but I don't know if that'd be valid under English law. - Svavar Kjarrval On 24/07/15 16:31, Simon Poole wrote: > I suspect the problem is not quite as large as you think it might be. > > If they want to use a public licence, while it may not be actually > explicitly said anywhere, CC0 or the PDDL are naturally totally acceptable. > > For one offs/special permission I would suggest using > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/GettingPermission#Letter_Template3 > > > These are essentially the two standard routes we can take were we don't > need to make caveats about the data surviving a future licence change. > > Naturally there may be other "non-standard" licences that are acceptable > and there is for example the ODbL which is usable, however has some > issues particularly wrt a future licence change (and some more on top of > that). But as said all tend to invoke additional complications which are > best avoided. > > Simon signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Legal requirements of permissions to import into OSM
I suspect the problem is not quite as large as you think it might be. If they want to use a public licence, while it may not be actually explicitly said anywhere, CC0 or the PDDL are naturally totally acceptable. For one offs/special permission I would suggest using http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/GettingPermission#Letter_Template3 These are essentially the two standard routes we can take were we don't need to make caveats about the data surviving a future licence change. Naturally there may be other "non-standard" licences that are acceptable and there is for example the ODbL which is usable, however has some issues particularly wrt a future licence change (and some more on top of that). But as said all tend to invoke additional complications which are best avoided. Simon Am 24.07.2015 um 18:06 schrieb Svavar Kjarrval: > Hi. > > There are a few of us in Iceland who have been working on freeing > geodata so it can (potentially) be imported into OSM. The main problem > has been that we have little idea of what to tell the government > entities when they ask how they should proceed (in the legal aspect). > Most of the entities are small municipalities so they'd rather not spend > many resources in doing original work like finding a compatible licence, > researching what they must/should state in their permission or even > importing the data themselves. It'd be much easier (for them) if we > could propose a way for them to give us the data and they'd only need to > sign on the dotted line on the appropriate forms (or send us an e-mail, > if it's a valid method). > > Of course we can guess what form of permission would be acceptable and > how it could be given, but we'd rather not have to return to the agency > and ask for any additional actions because our original guidelines were > insufficient (or even incorrect). There are no international copyright > licences we can point to since there are no such licences which have > been formally deemed acceptable to import under the CT. So the status > now is that we must get a specific permission to use the data for an > import into OSM. > > OK, let's say the government entity would be willing to grant permission > to submit the data (or a derived version) specifically under the CT > (even if I'm wrong about no formally compatible licence currently > existing). What is the best way to ensure that is withstands any/most > legal challenges which would be likely to be brought up in the import > process? Can the permission be sent from an official e-mail address? If > not, is it an absolute requirement that it must be on paper? Should we > implicity trust that the official is within their right to grant us the > permission or must we go into some research to verify? What *must* the > permission say to be considered valid? Does the permission have to be > accompanied with the most recent version of the CT so there's no > question as to what is being agreed upon? If so, does the same apply to > the ODbL since it plays such a big role in what can be (currently) done > with the data? > > I don't expect an answer to every one of these questions but I'd be > grateful if you could point me to any guidelines to minimise the risk of > giving incomplete or incorrect suggestions regarding the legal aspect to > potential data providers. > > With regards, > Svavar Kjarrval > > > > ___ > legal-talk mailing list > legal-talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk > signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Legal requirements of permissions to import into OSM
Hi. There are a few of us in Iceland who have been working on freeing geodata so it can (potentially) be imported into OSM. The main problem has been that we have little idea of what to tell the government entities when they ask how they should proceed (in the legal aspect). Most of the entities are small municipalities so they'd rather not spend many resources in doing original work like finding a compatible licence, researching what they must/should state in their permission or even importing the data themselves. It'd be much easier (for them) if we could propose a way for them to give us the data and they'd only need to sign on the dotted line on the appropriate forms (or send us an e-mail, if it's a valid method). Of course we can guess what form of permission would be acceptable and how it could be given, but we'd rather not have to return to the agency and ask for any additional actions because our original guidelines were insufficient (or even incorrect). There are no international copyright licences we can point to since there are no such licences which have been formally deemed acceptable to import under the CT. So the status now is that we must get a specific permission to use the data for an import into OSM. OK, let's say the government entity would be willing to grant permission to submit the data (or a derived version) specifically under the CT (even if I'm wrong about no formally compatible licence currently existing). What is the best way to ensure that is withstands any/most legal challenges which would be likely to be brought up in the import process? Can the permission be sent from an official e-mail address? If not, is it an absolute requirement that it must be on paper? Should we implicity trust that the official is within their right to grant us the permission or must we go into some research to verify? What *must* the permission say to be considered valid? Does the permission have to be accompanied with the most recent version of the CT so there's no question as to what is being agreed upon? If so, does the same apply to the ODbL since it plays such a big role in what can be (currently) done with the data? I don't expect an answer to every one of these questions but I'd be grateful if you could point me to any guidelines to minimise the risk of giving incomplete or incorrect suggestions regarding the legal aspect to potential data providers. With regards, Svavar Kjarrval signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
