Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Any expert CC-BY - ODbL negotiators?
Hello Steve, On 30.08.2015 17:14, Steve Bennett wrote: I wonder if there are any expert licence negotiators here who might be able to get involved in the discussion. I'm no such expert, but they just require attribution. Did they state any specific way of doing so? If not, then maybe just mentioning in the wiki is fine for them? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors Stephan ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Any expert CC-BY - ODbL negotiators?
Hi all, I've been trying to convince the state government of Victoria (southeast Australia) to allow their VicMap raw data to be imported into OSM. It's currently CC-BY, and they've told me they're happy in principle for it to be used this way, but they're uncomfortable making the recommended statement DELWP has no objections to geodata derived in part from Vicmap, either traced from Vicmap map products, or directly from spatial extracts, being incorporated into the OpenStreetMap project geodata database and released under a free and open license. Specifically, they don't think ODbL is as free and open as CC-BY, and they don't particularly want to make a one-off statement for OSM. The only other requirement is not to apply legal terms or technological measures that legally restrict others from doing anything the license permits. If the ODbL is more restrictive than our CC by Attribution this presents a problem for OSM, not for us. My initial response is that we wouldn't want OSM to apply a more restrictive license than ours, and in respect of the statement Steve wants us to provide, DELWP doesn't want to get into creating one-off variations for every potential user with a preference - Google, HERE, etc. ... We believe the CC by Attribution appropriate to sufficiently and equitably provide our data to all/anyone, and if Steve is concerned he should take it up with OSM. I'll refer it to Legal (not ours, DataVic's) if he wants to pursue it further. It's all getting quite subtle and possibly out of my depth. I'm not sure if the concern is a misunderstanding about the implications of dual licensing, a philosophical objection to free licences that impose share-alike restrictions like ODbL, or something different. I wonder if there are any expert licence negotiators here who might be able to get involved in the discussion. Thanks very much, Steve ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Any expert CC-BY - ODbL negotiators?
On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 2:33 PM, Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de wrote: Hello Steve, On 30.08.2015 17:14, Steve Bennett wrote: I wonder if there are any expert licence negotiators here who might be able to get involved in the discussion. I'm no such expert, but they just require attribution. Did they state any specific way of doing so? If not, then maybe just mentioning in the wiki is fine for them? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors Right. You don't need DELWP to give you any statement or permission in order to import their data to OpenStreetMap or derive data for OpenStreetMap from their data. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Any expert CC-BY - ODbL negotiators?
On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:04 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: My understanding was that when you import data into OSM, you assign special permission to the OSMF to re-license the data under ODbL, so you need more than just CC-BY licensing to begin with. Did something change, or have I just been mistaken for a long time? Not quite, you only need special permission if terms aren't clearly compatible with an import in OSM: Sometimes the exact terms under which data can used is unclear and clarification is needed. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/GettingPermission ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Any expert CC-BY - ODbL negotiators?
Huh. Really? Did I completely misunderstand this? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/GettingPermission My understanding was that when you import data into OSM, you assign special permission to the OSMF to re-license the data under ODbL, so you need more than just CC-BY licensing to begin with. Did something change, or have I just been mistaken for a long time? Steve On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 2:33 PM, Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de wrote: Hello Steve, On 30.08.2015 17:14, Steve Bennett wrote: I wonder if there are any expert licence negotiators here who might be able to get involved in the discussion. I'm no such expert, but they just require attribution. Did they state any specific way of doing so? If not, then maybe just mentioning in the wiki is fine for them? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors Right. You don't need DELWP to give you any statement or permission in order to import their data to OpenStreetMap or derive data for OpenStreetMap from their data. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Any expert CC-BY - ODbL negotiators?
On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:54 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: The problem is that they have specified a license with attribution that is unreasonable for geodata (CC BY 3.0 and earlier). Neither OpenStreetMap.org or most data consumers (e.g. MapBox) would meet the CC BY 3.0 and earlier attribution requirements. So a simpler route here would be to suggest upgrading to use CC-By 4.0? Or is Paul stating there is no known version of Creative Commons that is acceptable to OSM except the completely unencumbered CC0? Andrew -- Andrew Turner t: @ajturner b: http://highearthorbit.com m: 248.982.3609 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Any expert CC-BY - ODbL negotiators?
The problem is that they have specified a license with attribution that is unreasonable for geodata (CC BY 3.0 and earlier). Neither OpenStreetMap.org or most data consumers (e.g. MapBox) would meet the CC BY 3.0 and earlier attribution requirements. There are a few options for permission. The easiest might be to get them to grant permission to everyone under the CC0 license. This would meet the needs of us, as well as anyone else who would want to use their data Another option is to educate them about data licenses. I'd only go this route if you can't get the data under CC0. They've talked about concern about their data being used under less-free license. Leaving aside what less-free means, a feature of attribution only licenses like CC BY is that you are allowed to do this. On Aug 30, 2015 5:41 PM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 2:33 PM, Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de wrote: Hello Steve, On 30.08.2015 17:14, Steve Bennett wrote: I wonder if there are any expert licence negotiators here who might be able to get involved in the discussion. I'm no such expert, but they just require attribution. Did they state any specific way of doing so? If not, then maybe just mentioning in the wiki is fine for them? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors Right. You don't need DELWP to give you any statement or permission in order to import their data to OpenStreetMap or derive data for OpenStreetMap from their data. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Any expert CC-BY - ODbL negotiators?
On 31 August 2015 at 12:05, Andrew Turner ajtur...@highearthorbit.com wrote: So a simpler route here would be to suggest upgrading to use CC-By 4.0? Or is Paul stating there is no known version of Creative Commons that is acceptable to OSM except the completely unencumbered CC0? See https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2015-July/008163.html CC BY 4.0 has some open questions about compatibility. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Any expert CC-BY - ODbL negotiators?
Sent from my Cyanogen phone On Aug 30, 2015 6:04 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Huh. Really? Did I completely misunderstand this? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/GettingPermission My understanding was that when you import data into OSM, you assign special permission to the OSMF to re-license the data under ODbL, so you need more than just CC-BY licensing to begin with. Did something change, or have I just been mistaken for a long time? http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License#I_would_like_to_import_data_XYZ.2C_can_I_just_go_ahead.3F The license needs to be compatible, or you need permission. Obviously compatible licenses are CC0, PDDL, ODC-By, and the ODbL itself. Obviously incompatible licenses are any non-commercial or no derivative license. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
