Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Australian Government Data from data.gov.au

[Tobias Wendorff]

Am Mi, 29.06.2016, 23:46 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
> Is there still need to attribute the original creator?

In my opinion that's what CC-BY is all about. You're allowed to change
it, but you still need to tell the name of the licensee.

It's common GIS practice:
When you've got data from catastral office and you're editing it, you
write: "(C) catastral office of $city, edited by $user". That's
nothing new: *BY* has always been there, just *CC* is new.

Let's assume CC-BY does work for geospatial data(bases), it's easier
to discuss in this level.



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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Australian Government Data from data.gov.au

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 29 giu 2016, alle ore 23:26, Tobias Wendorff 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> Oh come on, that's no valid argument. A script can handle this and
> output the source of the data imported into this area. Nobody would
> need to analyse the data on its own.


it is far from trivial, because people modify data in OSM. You would have to 
decide for every object and all its history. Maybe version 1 of a way was 
imported but then a different user deleted a node from it. Is there still need 
to attribute the original creator? What if after some time none of the original 
nodes is still in the way (or in the original place), would you have to 
attribute to him anyway? etc. etc., this was just an example with geometry, 
tags also can play a role.


cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Australian Government Data from data.gov.au

[Tobias Wendorff]

Am Mi, 29.06.2016, 22:58 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
>
> just that this list becomes very long, see
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors

You wouldn't see "data.gov.au" in a German map extract of course.
I just wasn't creative enough to add data from one spatial area :)

"(C) OpenStreetMap, Vermessungs- und Katasteramt Dortmund,
Amt für Geoinformation, Liegenschaften und Kataster Bochum"

That's common practice in the real world.

> Should everyone who renders a map have to analyze which imported data
> is  used in the work? Why not listing the osm usernames that
> contributed as well?

Oh come on, that's no valid argument. A script can handle this and
output the source of the data imported into this area. Nobody would
need to analyse the data on its own.


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Australian Government Data from data.gov.au

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 29 giu 2016, alle ore 22:49, Tobias Wendorff 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> "(C) OpenStreetMap, with subsets of data.gov.au, BKG Germany & xyz"


just that this list becomes very long, see
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors

Should everyone who renders a map have to analyze which imported data is used 
in the work? Why not listing the osm usernames that contributed as well?

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Australian Government Data from data.gov.au

[Tobias Wendorff]

Am Di, 28.06.2016, 12:51 schrieb Simon Poole:
> We cannot restrict how our data is used outside of the
> ODbL terms. While we might not be adding personal information,
> downstream that may well happen.

Let's change ODbL and allow different BY-attributes. That would solve
much of problems. Actually, it's the common practice in science and
commercial data:

"(C) OpenStreetMap, with subsets of data.gov.au, BKG Germany & xyz"

CC-BY still allows any mapper to change the data and to do whatever
he/she wants.


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Australian Government Data from data.gov.au

[cleary]

Thanks for that advice. I will draft an email over the next
couple of days.
 
 
 
On Tue, Jun 28, 2016, at 08:51 PM, Simon Poole wrote:
> The explicit permission that we received was for data released
> directly by the Australian government, it is unclear if that could
> apply to data that they have licensed from a third party for
> distribution which seems to be the case here.
> CC by 4.0 reduced the requirements on attribution compared to earlier
> versions and people have argued that the indirect attribution
> (OpenStreetMap -> osm.org -> original datasource) might be enough to
> satisfy them, however I would suggest getting explicit permission from
> either PSMA or
>
> Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet
>   02 6271 5111
>  spat...@pmc.gov.au
>
>  to be on the safe side.
> The further issue I see, is with the additional privacy principles
> that must be followed. We cannot restrict how our data is used outside
> of the ODbL terms. While we might not be adding personal information,
> downstream that may well happen.
> A possible workaround might be for either PSMA or pmc.gov.au to
> identify which datasets are touchy and not import/use them (and lift
> the additional terms for the remaining datasets).
> Simon
>
> Am 28.06.2016 um 08:54 schrieb cleary:
>> After brief discussion on the talk-au list, advice is requested from
>> the legal-talk list.  The PSMA Admin Boundaries Data is released by
>> the Australian Government at
>> https://data.gov.au/dataset/psma-administrative-boundariesIt is
>> provided under CC-BY-4.0 licence with a condition relating to privacy
>> principles.  OSM has received explicit permission to use some
>> Australian Government Data. See
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/data.gov.au_explicit_permission
>> Some items published at data.gov.au under CC-BY 4.0 have already been
>> listed on the Contributors page of the wiki but there is concern that
>> the above-mentioned explicit permission may be insufficient for the
>> data. The wiki contributors page includes the statement "Incorporates
>> or developed using Administrative Boundaries ©PSMA Australia Limited
>> licensed by the Commonwealth of Australia under Creative Commons
>> Attribution 4.0 International licence (CC BY 4.0)." but it is not
>> sourced or referenced so that its significance is unclear.  The
>> Boundaries Data is also provided with the condition that "Users must
>> only use the data in ways that are consistent with the Australian
>> Privacy Principles issued under the Privacy Act 1988 (Cth)."  It
>> seems to me that OSM does not collect or use any personal information
>> about identifiable individuals that would cause a problem but someone
>> else may have a different view.  Can we please have advice on whether
>> the previously received explicit permission is adequate to permit use
>> of the PSMA Admin Boundaries Data and whether there is any concern in
>> relation to the Australian Privacy Principles.
>> ___ legal-talk mailing
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>>
>
> _
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