Re: [OSM-legal-talk] MAPS.ME combining OSM data and non-OSM data?
Christoph Hormann wrote: From my perspective it is as Simon put it: In summary both guidelines in this use scenario boil down to prohibiting de-duplication (of any kind). Now you can of course disagree with that assessment but so far you have not brought up any convincing argument for that. Just because your exact use case is not mentioned in the Horizontal Layers guideline does not mean it does not apply in analogy. It does not matter if you use proprietary data to add features missing in OSM data or if you use OSM data to add features missing in proprietary data - the license as i read it is symmetric in that matter. From my perspective, Simon mentioned the guidelines, argued that they refer to the case in maps.me, while they state the reverse case (with removing duplicates from OSM), and then finishing with the summary you quote. I agree that one of the examples in the Collective Database Guidelines does not specify a method of de-deduplication, though, for example, prioir text allows for databases to be considered separate when "the non-OSM and OSM datasets do not reference each other". And they don't. As I see it, we have two independent databases. Complying with ODbL 4.6.b we provide "A file containing all of the alterations made to the Database". Let's consider another use case. An application that shows OSM map, and on top of it shows 1 mln of user points. A users has an option to hide the OSM map underneath proprietary points, with a radius of 1 km. Does in that moment when a user clickes the options, the combined map become derivative? Because the application removes parts of OSM map based on proprietary data, which means, by your implications, that that creates an inseparable references. Now, let's use in this example not the whole OSM dataset, but only hotels from it. And the proprietary data is also hotels. What changes? IZ ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] MAPS.ME combining OSM data and non-OSM data?
On Saturday 09 July 2016, Ilya Zverev wrote: > > Christoph, please read my last post again: we use all of the > booking.com data, not just hotels that are missing. We are not > altering the proprietary data in any way. Just removing some data > from OSM, and that portion of the data is published, obviously under > the ODbL. I read what you wrote and i think i understand pretty well what you do. From my perspective it is as Simon put it: > In summary both guidelines in this use scenario boil down to > prohibiting de-duplication (of any kind). Now you can of course disagree with that assessment but so far you have not brought up any convincing argument for that. Just because your exact use case is not mentioned in the Horizontal Layers guideline does not mean it does not apply in analogy. It does not matter if you use proprietary data to add features missing in OSM data or if you use OSM data to add features missing in proprietary data - the license as i read it is symmetric in that matter. What i was trying to do is point out ways how you could continue doing what you do (i.e. show both data from booking.com and from OSM in a single application). -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] MAPS.ME combining OSM data and non-OSM data?
Christoph Hormann wrote: I would also suggest to keep in mind that in principle this is exactly the kind of case share-alike was created for - the OSM database is missing some hotels and some other database contains them and the intention is that you need to make available that other data or the merger of the two data sets for inclusion in OSM if you want to use them in combination. If your use of the booking.com data is not about hotels missing from OSM but only about the additional info booking.com provides (link to booking page and other metadata for example) the new collective database guideline gives you another option: you can match this metadata with the OSM POIs and use them together without share-alike. You however must not show any hotels that are not in OSM then or make their coordinates available under compatible license. Christoph, please read my last post again: we use all of the booking.com data, not just hotels that are missing. We are not altering the proprietary data in any way. Just removing some data from OSM, and that portion of the data is published, obviously under the ODbL. IZ ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] MAPS.ME combining OSM data and non-OSM data?
On Saturday 09 July 2016, Christoph Hormann wrote: > > I think this is a fairly clear case for the Horizontal Layers > guideline To avoid ambiguity: I of course meant a case where the guideline says share-alike applies. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] MAPS.ME combining OSM data and non-OSM data?
On Friday 08 July 2016, Ilya Zverev wrote: > > If the LWG decides we are violating the license (and explains how, > maybe producing another guidelines), we will remove all OSM hotels > from our data. But for now I don't see how it's different from > removing just some of the hotels. I think this is a fairly clear case for the Horizontal Layers guideline and Simon also made a statement in that direction. Of course as always this is a matter of interpretation. I would also suggest to keep in mind that in principle this is exactly the kind of case share-alike was created for - the OSM database is missing some hotels and some other database contains them and the intention is that you need to make available that other data or the merger of the two data sets for inclusion in OSM if you want to use them in combination. If your use of the booking.com data is not about hotels missing from OSM but only about the additional info booking.com provides (link to booking page and other metadata for example) the new collective database guideline gives you another option: you can match this metadata with the OSM POIs and use them together without share-alike. You however must not show any hotels that are not in OSM then or make their coordinates available under compatible license. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
