Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Data consumer use cases

[Igor Brejc]

Thank you, Jonathan



On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Jonathan Harley  wrote:

>
> Hi all, just a note to say that I've updated the Use Cases wiki page based
> on the comments below from Igor and others who replied to me earlier in the
> month.
>
> Michael - everyone who's commented about your redrafted guideline has
> agreed with it - maybe it's time to go ahead and replace what's there now.
>
> Jonathan.
>
>
>
> On 05/11/12 19:46, Igor Brejc wrote:
>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Jonathan Harley > j...@spiffymap.net>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Michael's reply to you about the "trivial transformation
>> guideline" of 30 October agrees with this - in his terms it
>> provides no new "physical observations" and the intent of the
>> license is to capture those for share-alike, not to extend
>> share-alike to any technique used for storing or transmitting the
>> data.
>>
>> Anyone disagree?
>>
>>
>> +1
>>
>>
>> What are the other examples you had in mind? Real-world examples
>> are exactly what we need for this.
>>
>>
>> Some more:
>>
>>   * Various forms of algorithm-driven generalizations: simplifications
>>
>> of roads and polygons, merging of polygons with same or similar
>> landuse, elimination of polygons that are too small for given map
>> scale (like buildings), amalgamation...
>>   * Transformation of multipolygons (polygons with holes) into weakly
>>
>> simple polygons (certain platforms don't know how to render
>> polygons with holes).
>>   * Algorithm-driven automated label and icon placement.
>>   * Other applications of geometric and graph algorithms on OSM data
>>
>> (Voronoi diagrams, traveling distances etc.) if they are driven by
>> OSM data only.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Igor
>>
>>
>> __**_
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>> legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/legal-talk
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr Jonathan Harley   :Managing Director:   SpiffyMap Ltd
>
> m...@spiffymap.com  Phone: 0845 313 8457 www.spiffymap.com
> The Venture Centre, Sir William Lyons Road, Coventry CV4 7EZ, UK
>
>
> __**_
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> http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/legal-talk
>
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Data consumer use cases

[Jonathan Harley]

Hi all, just a note to say that I've updated the Use Cases wiki page 
based on the comments below from Igor and others who replied to me 
earlier in the month.


Michael - everyone who's commented about your redrafted guideline has 
agreed with it - maybe it's time to go ahead and replace what's there now.


Jonathan.



On 05/11/12 19:46, Igor Brejc wrote:


On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Jonathan Harley > wrote:



Michael's reply to you about the "trivial transformation
guideline" of 30 October agrees with this - in his terms it
provides no new "physical observations" and the intent of the
license is to capture those for share-alike, not to extend
share-alike to any technique used for storing or transmitting the
data.

Anyone disagree?


+1


What are the other examples you had in mind? Real-world examples
are exactly what we need for this.


Some more:

  * Various forms of algorithm-driven generalizations: simplifications
of roads and polygons, merging of polygons with same or similar
landuse, elimination of polygons that are too small for given map
scale (like buildings), amalgamation...
  * Transformation of multipolygons (polygons with holes) into weakly
simple polygons (certain platforms don't know how to render
polygons with holes).
  * Algorithm-driven automated label and icon placement.
  * Other applications of geometric and graph algorithms on OSM data
(Voronoi diagrams, traveling distances etc.) if they are driven by
OSM data only.

Best regards,
Igor


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m...@spiffymap.com  Phone: 0845 313 8457 www.spiffymap.com
The Venture Centre, Sir William Lyons Road, Coventry CV4 7EZ, UK


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Data consumer use cases

[Igor Brejc]

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer
wrote:

> 2012/11/5 David Groom :
>
> btw.: also removing might be of interest, e.g. someone checking "all"
> businesses in OSM and removing them in the case they are closed now
> would be a major improvement we would like to have fed back into OSM
> also if nothing was actually _added_.


Such elimination would be impossible without using an external data source
of businesses now open/closed, so in my view this would constitute a
Derivative Database (with physical observations). "Adding" is an abstract
term: "removing" closed businesses could be viewed as adding information
about whether a business is now open or closed. Even if you then physically
remove all closed businesses from the database, this information would
still remain (implicitly) in the database.

Igor
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Data consumer use cases

[Igor Brejc]

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Jonathan Harley  wrote:

>
> Michael's reply to you about the "trivial transformation guideline" of 30
> October agrees with this - in his terms it provides no new "physical
> observations" and the intent of the license is to capture those for
> share-alike, not to extend share-alike to any technique used for storing or
> transmitting the data.
>
> Anyone disagree?
>

+1

>
> What are the other examples you had in mind? Real-world examples are
> exactly what we need for this.


Some more:

   - Various forms of algorithm-driven generalizations: simplifications of
   roads and polygons, merging of polygons with same or similar landuse,
   elimination of polygons that are too small for given map scale (like
   buildings), amalgamation...
   - Transformation of multipolygons (polygons with holes) into weakly
   simple polygons (certain platforms don't know how to render polygons with
   holes).
   - Algorithm-driven automated label and icon placement.
   - Other applications of geometric and graph algorithms on OSM data
   (Voronoi diagrams, traveling distances etc.) if they are driven by OSM data
   only.

Best regards,
Igor
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Data consumer use cases

[Igor Brejc]

Hi Jonathan,

I'm looking at the Case 2 (publish something based on OSM and nothing
else). I think we need a clarification on what the "unmodified OSM
database" means. For example: it's a common practice to simplify the line
and polygon artwork when producing SVGs or PDFs (to reduce the file size
and make it easier for low-powered mobile devices to render the artwork).
This simplification is done algorithmically, without any external data.
This is just one example.

If there's no consensus on whether this constitutes an unmodified or a
derivative database, then this should also be stated on the page.

Igor

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Jonathan Harley  wrote:

>
> Goal-oriented wiki page, first draft:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/License/Use_Cases
>
> Some points deliberately simplified for readability. C&C welcome.
>
> As I was going through all the ways one might make a derivative database,
> it struck me that there's an obvious way of dodging this - to put whatever
> information you want to display into OSM first. I found the bulk import
> guidelines, but nothing really on what kinds of business data might be
> desirable/undesirable in OSM. Is there anything anywhere that gives
> examples of things we wouldn't want - like marketing slogans and product
> descriptions in place names, for example?
>
> Jonathan.
>
> --
> Dr Jonathan Harley   :Managing Director:   SpiffyMap Ltd
>
> m...@spiffymap.com  Phone: 0845 313 8457 www.spiffymap.com
> The Venture Centre, Sir William Lyons Road, Coventry CV4 7EZ, UK
>
>
> __**_
> legal-talk mailing list
> legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/legal-talk
>
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[OSM-legal-talk] Data consumer use cases

[Jonathan Harley]

Goal-oriented wiki page, first draft:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/License/Use_Cases

Some points deliberately simplified for readability. C&C welcome.

As I was going through all the ways one might make a derivative 
database, it struck me that there's an obvious way of dodging this - to 
put whatever information you want to display into OSM first. I found the 
bulk import guidelines, but nothing really on what kinds of business 
data might be desirable/undesirable in OSM. Is there anything anywhere 
that gives examples of things we wouldn't want - like marketing slogans 
and product descriptions in place names, for example?


Jonathan.

--
Dr Jonathan Harley   :Managing Director:   SpiffyMap Ltd

m...@spiffymap.com  Phone: 0845 313 8457 www.spiffymap.com
The Venture Centre, Sir William Lyons Road, Coventry CV4 7EZ, UK


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