Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Is CC-BY-SA is compatible with ODbL - a philosophical point
On 24/08/2010 11:35, Ed Avis wrote: ... under the proposed ODbL or whether it would technically be in breach of the contract-law provisions But presumably I as Joe Mapper wouldn't be restricted in going back to the OS with a bunch of errors that I've found after comparing what I've mapped with what the OS throught was there (on the my data is mine and I can licence it however else I like as well principle)? ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Is CC-BY-SA is compatible with ODbL - a philosophical point
andrzej zaborowski balr...@... writes: That's what I think the plan is. However it is made very difficult by the fact that those data providers most likely chose their SA licenses in order to be able to use any improvements made on top of their data, which we are planning to very soon make impossible for them. So we now approach them and say Hello, can you please grant all these.. perpetual.. irrevocable.. etc. rights to something called OSMF, and by the way you won't be able to use OSM data any more because our new license is not compatible with yours. It may be hard to give something back from OSM to many of the data providers. Public domain sources like USGS cannot take the updates because they are funded for producing public domain data (http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2010-July/020016.html). Ordance Survey can't take updates because it is also selling licenses for commercial use. Thus both the European and American mapping agencies have one thing in common, they can't accept updates from OSM community but they need to build their own community feed back systems. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Is CC-BY-SA is compatible with ODbL - a philosophical point
- Original Message - From: 80n 80n...@gmail.com To: Licensing and other legal discussions. legal-talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Is CC-BY-SA is compatible with ODbL - a philosophical point On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 5:44 PM, David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.netwrote: Why are we changing the licence? Well [1] states among other things that [CC-BY-SA] is therefore very difficult to interpret, and we have indeed seen this situation occur many times when people have asked what can and can't be done with OSM data, and no definitive answer could be found. If it was unclear if something was allowed under CC-BY-SA then users of our data were asked to take a cautious approach. And that seems very reasonable stance to take, even though it resulted in a lower than hoped for use of OSM data. So it was decided that since even the OSM community could not categorically say how CC-BY-SA applied to OSM data a licence change was needed. Move forward a bit and we start to implement the new licence. Since we could not reach consensus on how CC-By-SA applied to our data, it seems reasonable to assume that we can not assume how CC-BY-SA data applies to other people data, and therefor to be safe I presume we won't simply be blindly importing CC-BY-SA data into OSM. I presume we will be approaching providers of data that has a CC-BY-SA licence and asking if we can use that data in OSM. So our permission to use the data will stem not from a CC-BY-SA licence, but from the explicit permission given by the copyright holder. Or am I missing something? David, CC-BY-SA licensed content is incompatible with ODbL+CT. CC-BY-SA derived content would not be allowed in an ODbL version of OSM. 80n Sorry I should have made it clear that I realise that. As I titled the post, it was more a philosophical point that extended beyond the confines of the CT's ODbL. I suppose where it ovelaps with the discussion on CT ODbl is where I asked if we will be approaching providers of data that has a CC-BY-SA licence and asking if we can use that data in OSM. So our permission to use the data will stem not from a CC-BY-SA licence, but from the explicit permission given by the copyright holder. As such it then wouldn't matter if CC-BY-SA were incompatible eith the CT ODbL as we would not be relying on the CC-BY-SA licence, but rather on the explicit permisison. David 80n Furthermore if we don't approach CC-BY-SA providers and ask if we can use their data, then we are using it by virtue of the fact it is CC-BY-SA, and surely the CC-BY-SA permissions flow though into the OSM data. In which case nothing has been gained from the licence change process as the same permissions which were there before (and were difficult to interpret) still exist. Apologies if this has been discussed before, but I cant see anything about it on the implementation plan [2] David [1] http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/We_Are_Changing_The_License#Why_are_we_changing_the_license.3F [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Implementation_Plan ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Is CC-BY-SA is compatible with ODbL - a philosophical point
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 7:50 PM, David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.netwrote: - Original Message - From: 80n 80n...@gmail.com To: Licensing and other legal discussions. legal-talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Is CC-BY-SA is compatible with ODbL - a philosophical point On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 5:44 PM, David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.net wrote: Why are we changing the licence? Well [1] states among other things that [CC-BY-SA] is therefore very difficult to interpret, and we have indeed seen this situation occur many times when people have asked what can and can't be done with OSM data, and no definitive answer could be found. If it was unclear if something was allowed under CC-BY-SA then users of our data were asked to take a cautious approach. And that seems very reasonable stance to take, even though it resulted in a lower than hoped for use of OSM data. So it was decided that since even the OSM community could not categorically say how CC-BY-SA applied to OSM data a licence change was needed. Move forward a bit and we start to implement the new licence. Since we could not reach consensus on how CC-By-SA applied to our data, it seems reasonable to assume that we can not assume how CC-BY-SA data applies to other people data, and therefor to be safe I presume we won't simply be blindly importing CC-BY-SA data into OSM. I presume we will be approaching providers of data that has a CC-BY-SA licence and asking if we can use that data in OSM. So our permission to use the data will stem not from a CC-BY-SA licence, but from the explicit permission given by the copyright holder. Or am I missing something? David, CC-BY-SA licensed content is incompatible with ODbL+CT. CC-BY-SA derived content would not be allowed in an ODbL version of OSM. 80n Sorry I should have made it clear that I realise that. As I titled the post, it was more a philosophical point that extended beyond the confines of the CT's ODbL. David, I know that you realise that. I just wanted to clarify this for the benefit of others reading this thread who may not have the detailed background knowledge or stumble on this thread out of context. I suppose where it ovelaps with the discussion on CT ODbl is where I asked if we will be approaching providers of data that has a CC-BY-SA licence and asking if we can use that data in OSM. So our permission to use the data will stem not from a CC-BY-SA licence, but from the explicit permission given by the copyright holder. As such it then wouldn't matter if CC-BY-SA were incompatible eith the CT ODbL as we would not be relying on the CC-BY-SA licence, but rather on the explicit permisison. David 80n Furthermore if we don't approach CC-BY-SA providers and ask if we can use their data, then we are using it by virtue of the fact it is CC-BY-SA, and surely the CC-BY-SA permissions flow though into the OSM data. In which case nothing has been gained from the licence change process as the same permissions which were there before (and were difficult to interpret) still exist. Apologies if this has been discussed before, but I cant see anything about it on the implementation plan [2] David [1] http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/We_Are_Changing_The_License#Why_are_we_changing_the_license.3F [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Implementation_Plan ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
