Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Series of maps for Angola
Hi Simon, Thanks for your reflection. I do see your point that we would retain the 'master copy' of the data and not be required to use other data that has been improved on. Personally, I think it could work. However, I'm thinking that the people above me who would be the ones to approve doing that, probably wouldn't want to, even if I took the time to discuss ODbL with them. I know someone else in my organization who tried to have a discussion to move towards ODbL in the past, and wasn't successful. Also, we are still hoping that the government provides something official for us with permissions to use at least for the series of maps we would like to produce since we did the work in conjunction with the government. We will see if they come through or not. :) Thanks, Marcus -Original Message- From: Simon Poole [mailto:si...@poole.ch] Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 11:53 AM To: legal-talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Series of maps for Angola Marcus I'm not quite sure if there is a real issue. If you derive the boundaries you use from OSM, yes it is unlikely that it is non-substantial if you are using them for a whole country and the result is likely subject to share alike. However that only requires you to make the your modified data available on ODbL terms,it does not require that you have to use whatever changes somebody else makes to that dataset. Any third party sources you use for improving the boundaries would however have to be compatible with the ODbL 1.0. So it is quite possible for you to retain a "master copy" of whatever you think the language boundaries are. Naturally if you have improvements to the admin boundaries and your source is ODbL compatible (which it should be, see above) it might make sense to include such improvements directly into OSM. As has been already been suggested the alternative is to not use OSM boundaries at all and a third party source (which I doubt exists as open data globally). Simon ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Series of maps for Angola
Marcus I'm not quite sure if there is a real issue. If you derive the boundaries you use from OSM, yes it is unlikely that it is non-substantial if you are using them for a whole country and the result is likely subject to share alike. However that only requires you to make the your modified data available on ODbL terms,it does not require that you have to use whatever changes somebody else makes to that dataset. Any third party sources you use for improving the boundaries would however have to be compatible with the ODbL 1.0. So it is quite possible for you to retain a "master copy" of whatever you think the language boundaries are. Naturally if you have improvements to the admin boundaries and your source is ODbL compatible (which it should be, see above) it might make sense to include such improvements directly into OSM. As has been already been suggested the alternative is to not use OSM boundaries at all and a third party source (which I doubt exists as open data globally). Simon Am 20.01.2017 um 12:05 schrieb Marcus Love: > Hi Christoph, > > Thanks for the response. I reviewed the substantial guidelines, and I feel > that it would be substantial as if I used it for one admin line, I'd want to > use it for the entire country. > >And as you say below, that if I use my own source of admin boundaries to > form language polygons overlaid on the OSM boundaries, they will have > mismatches. I compared what we currently have with Angola, and there are many > places where our boundaries and OSM boundaries already coincide, but there > are quite a few places where they differ. I'll keep looking into how I might > be able to turn off/only download background without OSM admin boundaries to > see if it is possible. > > Thanks, > Marcus > > -Original Message- > From: Christoph Hormann [mailto:chris_horm...@gmx.de] > Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 10:13 AM > To: Licensing and other legal discussions. > Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Series of maps for Angola > > On Friday 20 January 2017, Marcus Love wrote: >> I was >> thinking, that if I use OSM as a background, that I could edit the >> language polygons that we have to follow along OSM admin boundaries >> where they coincide. However, if I do that, would it then make those >> polygons that I've edited a 'derivative database'? > Probably yes, this depends on the extent to which you make use of OSM data in > your proprietary data set. See also: > > http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines/Substantial_-_Guideline > > If you'd just adjust your polygons at a handful of places to fix major > mismatches that would normally be considered insubstantial. > >> If that isn't possible to adapt our language polygons to OSM admin >> boundaries without it becoming a derivative database, then we would >> use another source for the admin boundaries. Is it possible to use an >> OSM background and turn off/toggle the admin boundaries for the >> basemap? Otherwise, we will have language boundaries which will be >> slightly off the OSM admin boundaries, and wouldn't look that great >> and might be confusing on the map. > If you render an OSM based map without OSM based admin boundaries and add > admin boundaries from a different source you have no derivative database, see: > > http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines/Horizontal_Map_Layers_-_Guideline > > Note however in such a map you would then simply have other mismatches, i.e. > between the admin boundaries and OSM based basemap features instead of > between the admin boundaries and your special thematic layer. > > -- > Christoph Hormann > http://www.imagico.de/ > > ___ > legal-talk mailing list > legal-talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk > > > ___ > legal-talk mailing list > legal-talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Series of maps for Angola
Hi Christoph, Thanks for the response. I reviewed the substantial guidelines, and I feel that it would be substantial as if I used it for one admin line, I'd want to use it for the entire country. And as you say below, that if I use my own source of admin boundaries to form language polygons overlaid on the OSM boundaries, they will have mismatches. I compared what we currently have with Angola, and there are many places where our boundaries and OSM boundaries already coincide, but there are quite a few places where they differ. I'll keep looking into how I might be able to turn off/only download background without OSM admin boundaries to see if it is possible. Thanks, Marcus -Original Message- From: Christoph Hormann [mailto:chris_horm...@gmx.de] Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 10:13 AM To: Licensing and other legal discussions. Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Series of maps for Angola On Friday 20 January 2017, Marcus Love wrote: > I was > thinking, that if I use OSM as a background, that I could edit the > language polygons that we have to follow along OSM admin boundaries > where they coincide. However, if I do that, would it then make those > polygons that I've edited a 'derivative database'? Probably yes, this depends on the extent to which you make use of OSM data in your proprietary data set. See also: http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines/Substantial_-_Guideline If you'd just adjust your polygons at a handful of places to fix major mismatches that would normally be considered insubstantial. > If that isn't possible to adapt our language polygons to OSM admin > boundaries without it becoming a derivative database, then we would > use another source for the admin boundaries. Is it possible to use an > OSM background and turn off/toggle the admin boundaries for the > basemap? Otherwise, we will have language boundaries which will be > slightly off the OSM admin boundaries, and wouldn't look that great > and might be confusing on the map. If you render an OSM based map without OSM based admin boundaries and add admin boundaries from a different source you have no derivative database, see: http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines/Horizontal_Map_Layers_-_Guideline Note however in such a map you would then simply have other mismatches, i.e. between the admin boundaries and OSM based basemap features instead of between the admin boundaries and your special thematic layer. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Series of maps for Angola
On Friday 20 January 2017, Marcus Love wrote: > I was > thinking, that if I use OSM as a background, that I could edit the > language polygons that we have to follow along OSM admin boundaries > where they coincide. However, if I do that, would it then make those > polygons that I've edited a 'derivative database'? Probably yes, this depends on the extent to which you make use of OSM data in your proprietary data set. See also: http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines/Substantial_-_Guideline If you'd just adjust your polygons at a handful of places to fix major mismatches that would normally be considered insubstantial. > If that isn't possible to adapt our language polygons to OSM admin > boundaries without it becoming a derivative database, then we would > use another source for the admin boundaries. Is it possible to use an > OSM background and turn off/toggle the admin boundaries for the > basemap? Otherwise, we will have language boundaries which will be > slightly off the OSM admin boundaries, and wouldn't look that great > and might be confusing on the map. If you render an OSM based map without OSM based admin boundaries and add admin boundaries from a different source you have no derivative database, see: http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines/Horizontal_Map_Layers_-_Guideline Note however in such a map you would then simply have other mismatches, i.e. between the admin boundaries and OSM based basemap features instead of between the admin boundaries and your special thematic layer. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Series of maps for Angola
To whom it may concern, I work with SIL International keeping language maps for the Ethnologue up-to-date for countries in Africa. We are in the process of making a series of language maps by province in Angola in coordination with the government of Angola. We are considering using OSM as a background for our maps. In a way this is a test for us to see how using OSM could work as a basemap for a future dynamic online map with all of our language polygons around the world. As far as I'm aware, it shouldn't be a problem to use OSM as a background with our own surveyed language data overlaying it. As long as we give proper credit to OSM. In that case, it would be a 'collective database'. The issue that we do have though, is portraying accurate administrative boundaries. For the most part, and currently in Angola, we use boundaries derived from old DCW data, which isn't the most accurate. Often language boundaries coincide with administrative boundaries, so having accurate boundaries is important. I was thinking, that if I use OSM as a background, that I could edit the language polygons that we have to follow along OSM admin boundaries where they coincide. However, if I do that, would it then make those polygons that I've edited a 'derivative database'? If so, then I think we can't do that, as we would need to retain the copyright, so that others wouldn't be free to change the polygons themselves. If that isn't possible to adapt our language polygons to OSM admin boundaries without it becoming a derivative database, then we would use another source for the admin boundaries. Is it possible to use an OSM background and turn off/toggle the admin boundaries for the basemap? Otherwise, we will have language boundaries which will be slightly off the OSM admin boundaries, and wouldn't look that great and might be confusing on the map. Thanks, Marcus Love Mapping Specialist - Africa area AIM Mapping Information Services SIL International ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
