Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Extent of share alike?
On 11/2/09, David Vaarwerk wrote: > I have made a map and business guide from scratch that you can > see here http://www.mineraldata.com.au/wp/index.html [1]. I would like to > share the map data with OSM and use OSM as a base map for this and other > maps/ business guides - I assume there is no problem with this as long as I > attribute the work. wow. that looks awesome! > However, my question is, how far does the share alike > section of the Creative Commons licence go. I want to share the map data > with OSM but not the other sections of the work. this lack of clarity is one of the problems with the CC BY-SA license. the short answer is: i'm not sure. the longer answer is: the image you render to the screen must be CC BY-SA licensed, and therefore allow people to do all the things they can do with a CC BY-SA work. but you may have other rights in your data depending on your jurisdiction. whether you can use these to prevent sharing of the business directory is a question for a Real Lawyer. > Is someone able to clarify this? Can > I just share the map data? actually, you don't have to share the map data. CC BY-SA considers only the published work, which in your case is the image that the flash app renders to the screen. only that work needs to be CC BY-SA, although we obviously welcome sharing more! for a (maybe) definitive answer, you might want to contact a lawyer. it's a hassle, but they're the only people who can give you real legal advice. cheers, matt ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Extent of share alike?
Hallo, Matt Amos wrote: >> However, my question is, how far does the share alike >> section of the Creative Commons licence go. I want to share the map data >> with OSM but not the other sections of the work. > > this lack of clarity is one of the problems with the CC BY-SA license. > the short answer is: i'm not sure. the longer answer is: the image you > render to the screen must be CC BY-SA licensed, ... not so fast! We generally say that: * if you produce an image that contains OSM and other data, then deliver this image to the client computer, then the whole image is CC-BY-SA. but * if you produce two different images, one with OSM and one with other data, and the two are overlaid on the client computer (by software acting on behalf of the user), then your second image can be licensed whatever you want. Only if the user (who is considered to have created a derived product by asking software running on his computer to take two images and merge them) then further publishes the image - which you may or may not allow as the image contains your data! - would the image have to be made CC-BY-SA. Otherwise it would not be possible to e.g. overlay OSM data and CGIAR "noncommercial use only" hill shading in an OpenLayers application. Bye Frederik ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Extent of share alike?
On 11/2/09, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hallo, > > Matt Amos wrote: >>> However, my question is, how far does the share alike >>> section of the Creative Commons licence go. I want to share the map data >>> with OSM but not the other sections of the work. >> >> this lack of clarity is one of the problems with the CC BY-SA license. >> the short answer is: i'm not sure. the longer answer is: the image you >> render to the screen must be CC BY-SA licensed, the even longer answer is... ;-) > ... not so fast! We generally say that: > > * if you produce an image that contains OSM and other data, then deliver > this image to the client computer, then the whole image is CC-BY-SA. > > but > > * if you produce two different images, one with OSM and one with other > data, and the two are overlaid on the client computer (by software > acting on behalf of the user), then your second image can be licensed > whatever you want. Only if the user (who is considered to have created a > derived product by asking software running on his computer to take two > images and merge them) then further publishes the image - which you may > or may not allow as the image contains your data! - would the image have > to be made CC-BY-SA. does that mean that no-one can redistribute a screenshot of the application? the CC BY-SA portion would imply that the screenshot would be CC BY-SA, but the license on the "other layer" of the image wouldn't allow that. > Otherwise it would not be possible to e.g. overlay OSM data and CGIAR > "noncommercial use only" hill shading in an OpenLayers application. indeed. for what it's worth i think that overlaying data onto CC BY-SA data/tiles is fine. but i'm not so sure about it that i'd make something on that basis without retaining a lawyer! cheers, matt ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Extent of share alike?
Hi, Matt Amos wrote: > does that mean that no-one can redistribute a screenshot of the > application? Yes, that's my reading, unless you invoke some superior right to "fair use" or "citation" or whatever applicable in your country; which would of course make any copyright discussion obsolete. - I regularly use screenshots from proprietary web sites in my talks and I believe I have the right to do so without even looking at their license, but I am not 100% sure that this is within the law. > the CC BY-SA portion would imply that the screenshot > would be CC BY-SA, but the license on the "other layer" of the image > wouldn't allow that. Correct. I think that CC-BY-SA creates an incentive for the secretive data provider to, instead of combining his own data and CC-BY-SA data server-side and delivering it to the customer, furnish the customer with a bit of software and feed him CC-BY-SA and proprietary data through separate channels. That way, the data is combined on the users' computer, leaving him user with a dead-end undistributable (but usable!) lump of data. Surely a win for Freedom! Bye Frederik ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Extent of share alike?
El Lunes, 2 de Noviembre de 2009, David Vaarwerk escribió: > However, my question is, how far does the share alike > section of the Creative Commons licence go. I want to share the map data > with OSM but not the other sections of the work. Then you double-license the map data: one version goes OSM under CC-by-sa or ODbL, the other version goes (c) into your guide. Share-alike does *not* apply to your work, only to one distribution of your work. Problems may arise only when you use already existing OSM data in your guide. In this case, the share-alike component of either CC-by-sa or ODbL would apply to the data set it is being put into. Most likely, you would have to share alike all your geographical data. Both CC-by-sa and ODbL don't apply to collections, so you don't have to share alike any databases that are separate from the one containing OSM data. Hope that helps, -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega http://ivan.sanchezortega.es Proudly running Debian Linux with 2.6.30-1-amd64 kernel, KDE 3.5.10, and PHP 5.2.11-1 generating this signature. Uptime: 13:57:29 up 7 days, 21:22, 3 users, load average: 0.80, 0.72, 0.64 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Extent of share alike?
Thanks for your all the responses, they do help. I think keeping the map and the business data separate with a double license is the best solution as suggested. So I will have a map with only OSM data, obviously anything I put in will become CC. I am happy to share the geographic location (lat. long.) of all businesses if OSM wants or can take this info (the obvious problem is space on the map and that businesses are constantly moving - updating becomes an issue). To keep things separate on another web page within the site I will serve from a separate database business information (phone number, website, service etc) that will have no geographic location information in it. The only overlap will be a business name. As far as I can see OSM doesn't record the street address of cafe's etc only their location. Thanks David Vaarwerk -- David Vaarwerk Manager Mineral Data Services www.mineraldata.com.au email: da...@mineraldata.com.au mobile: 0422 541 857 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Extent of share alike?
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 5:48 AM, David Vaarwerk wrote: > Thanks for your all the responses, they do help. > > I think keeping the map and the business data separate with a double > license is the best solution as suggested. > > So I will have a map with only OSM data, obviously anything I put in will > become > CC. I am happy to share the geographic location (lat. long.) of all > businesses > if OSM wants or can take this info (the obvious problem is space on the > map > and that businesses are constantly moving - updating becomes an issue). > > To keep things separate on another web page within the site I will serve > from a > separate database business information (phone number, website, service > etc) > that will have no geographic location information in it. The only overlap > will be a business name. As far as I can see OSM doesn't record the street > address > of cafe's etc only their location. street addresses of any feature can be recorded in OSM. see the karlsruhe schema [1] for more information and [2] for an example of it in use. cheers, matt [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/House_numbers/Karlsruhe_Schema [2] http://osm.org/go/euutR1zjR-- ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Extent of share alike?
> street addresses of any feature can be recorded in OSM. see the > karlsruhe schema [1] for more information and [2] for an example of it > in use. > > cheers, > > matt > > [1] > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/House_numbers/Karlsruhe_Schema > [2] http://osm.org/go/euutR1zjR-- That's excellent! Thanks for pointing that out. I also now see that various types of shops can be recorded in OSM --more than I initially realisedin the end it may be easier and of mutual benefit to open all my data. It's only a small amount of data in the scheme of things. David Vaarwerk > ___ > legal-talk mailing list > legal-talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
