Re: How to collaborate using Leo

2016-04-18 Thread Zoom.Quiet 
On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 5:04 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Zoom.Quiet  wrote:
>
>> - Ctrl+Shift+W need change currently node, not easy as Ctrl+S
>
>
> Imo, you shouldn't often need this command if
> @bool check_for_changed_external_files = True
>

Yes, open it, everything be auto now,
buy, under git, always alert me had changed by outdoor,
but in fact, only changed branch, and fixed time.

>> - refresh-from-disk is just need, but can not bind right hotkeys ~
>> look like Leo had used all kinds of hotkeys...
>

Hummm i'm not enjoy vim/emacs , i always need min hotkeys,
thanks suggest, i not setup new hotkeys, just global setup as
@bool check_for_changed_external_files = True

>
> All the Ctrl-number
>
> are unbound by default.
>
> Furthermore, Leo's history list feature (see the CheetSheet.leo, Executing
> minibuffer commands) means that once you have executed any minibuffer
> command, you can re-do that command using  followed by UpArrow or
> DownArrow.
>
> To answer your question just now, you can bind to refresh-from-disk by
> putting this in you myLeoSettings.leo:
>
> @shortcuts (headline)
>
> refresh-from-disk = Ctrl-1
> (and any other bindings you want).
>
> HTH
>
> Edward
>
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Re: How to collaborate using Leo

2016-04-18 Thread Edward K. Ream 
On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Zoom.Quiet  wrote:

- Ctrl+Shift+W need change currently node, not easy as Ctrl+S
>

​Imo, you shouldn't often need this command if
@bool check_for_changed_external_files = True​

- refresh-from-disk is just need, but can not bind right hotkeys ~
> look like Leo had used all kinds of hotkeys...
>

​All the Ctrl-number ​

​are unbound by default.

Furthermore, Leo's history list feature (see the CheetSheet.leo, Executing
minibuffer commands) means that once you have executed *any* minibuffer
command, you can re-do that command using  followed by UpArrow or
DownArrow.

To answer your question just now, you can bind to refresh-from-disk by
putting this in you myLeoSettings.leo:

@shortcuts (headline)

refresh-from-disk = Ctrl-1
(and any other bindings you want).

HTH

Edward

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Re: How to collaborate using Leo

2016-04-18 Thread Zoom.Quiet 
On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 3:31 PM, john lunzer  wrote:
> I'm currently using Alt+l for refresh-from-disk. It wasn't being used (I
> don't think) and seems logical. If a hotkey you want is being used you can
> go into the global settings and remove it or change it.
>

thanks u suggest,
but i cannot fund the refresh-from-disk under
#@settings-->Keyboard shortcuts-->@keys EKR bindings
we can appended by self?

> I'm not sure if personal settings override global settings or conflict.
>
> On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 4:19:45 PM UTC-4, Zoom.Quiet wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:
>> >
>> > On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 6:36 PM, Zoom.Quiet  wrote:
>> >
>> >> http://leoeditor.com/tutorial-programming.html#summary-clean-vs-file
>> >>
>> >> ...i need @clean forever!
>> >>
>> >> BUT the new leo-flow with git-flow is lost one command?
>> >
>> >
>> > You should be able to do what you want.
>> >
>> > 1. If you set @bool check_for_changed_external_files = True, Leo will
>> > automatically update @clean nodes from changes made outside of Leo.
>> >
>>
>> - setup in MyLeoSettings.leo work will ;-)
>> - Ctrl+Shift+W need change currently node, not easy as Ctrl+S
>> - refresh-from-disk is just need, but can not bind right hotkeys ~
>> look like Leo had used all kinds of hotkeys...
>>
>> TTH.
>>
>> > 2. Ctrl+Shift+W, (write-at-file-node) will write all @ nodes in
>> > the selected tree.
>> >
>> > 3. refresh-from-disk does the reverse: it updates the selected @
>> > node from the external file.
>> >
>> > HTH.
>> >
>> > Edward
>> >
>> > --
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>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Life's Pathetic, Let's Pythonic! 人生苦短, Python是岸!
>> 俺: http://zoomquiet.io
>> 授: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/cn/
>> 怒: 冗余不做,日子甭过!备份不做,十恶不赦!
>> KM keep growing environment culture which promoting organization be
>> learnning!
>
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怒: 冗余不做,日子甭过!备份不做,十恶不赦!
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Re: How to collaborate using Leo

2016-04-18 Thread john lunzer 
I'm currently using Alt+l for refresh-from-disk. It wasn't being used (I 
don't think) and seems logical. If a hotkey you want is being used you can 
go into the global settings and remove it or change it. 

I'm not sure if personal settings override global settings or conflict.

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 4:19:45 PM UTC-4, Zoom.Quiet wrote:
>
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Edward K. Ream  > wrote: 
> > 
> > On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 6:36 PM, Zoom.Quiet  > wrote: 
> > 
> >> http://leoeditor.com/tutorial-programming.html#summary-clean-vs-file 
> >> 
> >> ...i need @clean forever! 
> >> 
> >> BUT the new leo-flow with git-flow is lost one command? 
> > 
> > 
> > You should be able to do what you want. 
> > 
> > 1. If you set @bool check_for_changed_external_files = True, Leo will 
> automatically update @clean nodes from changes made outside of Leo. 
> > 
>
> - setup in MyLeoSettings.leo work will ;-) 
> - Ctrl+Shift+W need change currently node, not easy as Ctrl+S 
> - refresh-from-disk is just need, but can not bind right hotkeys ~ 
> look like Leo had used all kinds of hotkeys... 
>
> TTH. 
>
> > 2. Ctrl+Shift+W, (write-at-file-node) will write all @ nodes in 
> the selected tree. 
> > 
> > 3. refresh-from-disk does the reverse: it updates the selected @ 
> node from the external file. 
> > 
> > HTH. 
> > 
> > Edward 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "leo-editor" group. 
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> an email to leo-editor+...@googlegroups.com . 
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> . 
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> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Life's Pathetic, Let's Pythonic! 人生苦短, Python是岸! 
> 俺: http://zoomquiet.io 
> 授: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/cn/ 
> 怒: 冗余不做,日子甭过!备份不做,十恶不赦! 
> KM keep growing environment culture which promoting organization be 
> learnning! 
>

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Re: How to collaborate using Leo

2016-04-18 Thread Zoom.Quiet 
On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:
>
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 6:36 PM, Zoom.Quiet  wrote:
>
>> http://leoeditor.com/tutorial-programming.html#summary-clean-vs-file
>>
>> ...i need @clean forever!
>>
>> BUT the new leo-flow with git-flow is lost one command?
>
>
> You should be able to do what you want.
>
> 1. If you set @bool check_for_changed_external_files = True, Leo will 
> automatically update @clean nodes from changes made outside of Leo.
>

- setup in MyLeoSettings.leo work will ;-)
- Ctrl+Shift+W need change currently node, not easy as Ctrl+S
- refresh-from-disk is just need, but can not bind right hotkeys ~
look like Leo had used all kinds of hotkeys...

TTH.

> 2. Ctrl+Shift+W, (write-at-file-node) will write all @ nodes in the 
> selected tree.
>
> 3. refresh-from-disk does the reverse: it updates the selected @ node 
> from the external file.
>
> HTH.
>
> Edward
>
> --
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授: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/cn/
怒: 冗余不做,日子甭过!备份不做,十恶不赦!
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Re: How to collaborate using Leo

2016-04-18 Thread Edward K. Ream 
On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 6:36 PM, Zoom.Quiet  wrote:

http://leoeditor.com/tutorial-programming.html#summary-clean-vs-file
>
> ​...i need @clean forever!
>
> BUT the new leo-flow with git-flow is lost one command?
>

​You should be able to do what you want.

1. If you set @bool check_for_changed_external_files = True, Leo will
automatically update @clean nodes from changes made outside of Leo.

2. Ctrl+Shift+W, (write-at-file-node) will write all @ nodes in the
selected tree.

3. refresh-from-disk does the reverse: it updates the selected @ node
from the external file.

HTH.

Edward

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Re: How to collaborate using Leo

2016-04-16 Thread Zoom.Quiet 
i store up this mail in gmail, but never try to fixed code flow EKR's point.
thanks for EKR's Aha, 3 years question, fixed in Leo 5.2 !
notice this, just after terror story:

- i always use Leo to develop complex scripts
+ when start PyQt4 coding, also base Leo
+ but, this time under git-flow
- even upgrade into Leo 5.2, but my skill stan as 4.0
+ as one Leonard, for Nancy in teams
+ i had usage @shadow
+ and of course put .leo into git repository too
- so in the beginning:
+ after 4 hours coding, happy finished one feature develop
+ base git-flow input:
* $ git flow hotfix finish BIG-FEATURE
+ as normal git-flow will:
* Latest objects have been fetched from 'origin'
* Hotfix branch has been merged into 'master'
* The hotfix was tagged 'BIG-FEATURE'
* Hotfix branch has been back-merged into 'develop'
* Hotfix branch 'hotfix/BIG-FEATURE' has been deleted
+ BUT!!! because .leo also in git
* and can not Auto-merging with old version
* the git-flow hotfix flow break
- terror start:
+ try move .leo out git repository, and change @path
+ wants re-write all scripts, merge again
+ BUT! i forgot @shadown node NOT save data for code
+ so, after cmd+s, i got empty .py and .leo_shadow/*.py
- CAN MOVE minutes for so terror:
+ luck remember git keep all verion in breach
+ so revert develop breach
+ change back 'hotfix/BIG-FEATURE'
* into .leo change all @shadow to @nosent
* move .leo out git repository
* chnage @path
+ re-try `$ git flow hotfix finish BIG-FEATURE`
- kill the terror time

through this, i learned:

- .leo is too personal , need not put into git repositry
- @shadow is not strong enough
- nust use new directive

so review leo document, largh in Aha time ;-)
History of Leo — Leo 5.2 documentation
http://leoeditor.com/history.html#genesis-of-clean
and recheck : Appendices — Leo 5.2 documentation
http://leoeditor.com/appendices.html#the-mulder-ream-update-algorithm
notice @clean, and make confirm in:
Summary: @clean vs @file -> Programming with Leo — Leo 5.2 documentation
http://leoeditor.com/tutorial-programming.html#summary-clean-vs-file

for working with Nancy, i need @clean forever!

BUT the new leo-flow with git-flow is lost one command?

- how to updating @cloean nodes in Leo? need not to restart Leo?
- in my test:
+ edit .py out leo, make conflict
+ try cmd+s, leo alert:

... .py
 has changed outside Leo.
Overwrite the outline node?

- but try all kind of command in file menus
- not found withch one make Leo :
+ read out .py
+ base The Mulder/Ream algorithm updaing nodes
- so i had to clode all Leo windows
- restart Leo, so the "Recovered Nodes" auto generated


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 6:42 AM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 9:01 PM, Zoom.Quiet  wrote:
>
>> 2013/10/28 Edward K. Ream :
>
>
>> No.  The local cache is just a detail :-)  It merely needs to remember the
>> files *with* sentinels **on Nancy's local machine.**  SCCS repository
>> *never* sees the cache.  Only Nancy's push/pull hooks see the cache.
>>
>
> - the ~/.leo dir? sure, is the right space!
> - but, the @shadow algorithm is usage between who?
> - i guess just only can base the local user file and the lastest
> ver
> s
> ion in SCCS ?
>
> The @shadow algorithm is applied just before pushing a new version of one of
> Nancy's files, say x.py.  Therefore the input to the @shadow algorithm is:
>
> 1.  The cached version of x.py  This is the latest version of x.py that was
> pulled from SCCS.  It contains sentinels.  In @shadow terminology, this is
> the **private file**.
>
> 2. The version of x.py that Nancy is pushing.  This file is in Nancy's local
> SCCS repository.  This file contains no sentinels. In @shadow terminology,
> this is the **public file**.
>
> - so this ways is perfect for DVCS but svn/csv/vss etc. Center VCS is not
> good.
>
> I believe this scheme will work for any kind of SCCS because the hooks only
> work on a) the local repository and b) the local cache.
>
> ok all clean!
> - wait the brz first show us the prototype hooks
> - just need know how call the @shadow algorithm from Leo
> - in fact, this @shadow algorithm is very useful for other action,
> etc. co-writing system
>
> I don't have time to do a prototype now.  Here are the places containing
> relevant code:
>
> - leoShadow.py contains the fundamental @shadow algorithm plus quite a bit
> of support code.
>
> - leoAtFile.py contains the code actually reads and writes @shadow trees:
> See at.readOneAtShadowNode and at.openFileForReading.
>
> The at.atShadow ivar is set True in the init code for @shadow trees, so
> searching for atShadow will show you the special-case code involved.  This
> code is tricky, as you will see.
>
> - I have been saying that we can ignore the details of the cache as far as
>

Re: How to collaborate using Leo

2013-10-27 Thread Zoom.Quiet 
2013/10/26 Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com:
 On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Zoom.Quiet zoom.qu...@gmail.com wrote:

 H?! in my eyes, this flow just clone from git work flow?

 - cleanness files ~= work space
 - cache ~=stage index
 - shadow ~= local repo.
 - .leo ~= remote repo.

 I don't know enough about git to comment.  Anyone else want to try?

- Huuu, pls. ignore it...
- though one night, i get new understand:

Leonard always face Leo:
- whatever usage @file/@shadow
- shring SCCS forever is sentinels file
- and begin working ,must:
- bzr/hg/git pull and merge local sentinels file
- and usage read @file, merge into Leo node tree
- HOOKs for Leonard just fixed:
- base clean file or shadow, gen. sentinels file
- and the reverse

Nancy alwasy face clean files:
- but in fact shring SCCS forever is sentinels file
- and begin working ,must:
- bzr/hg/git pull and merge local sentinels file
- and the HOOKs for Nancy, base sentinels file through @shadow
algorithm gen. clean files
- HOOKs for Nancy just fixed:
- usage @shadow algorithm base the cached sentinels file
- merge local clean files gen. new sentinels file

so the local cache is the key problem:
- Invisible for Nancy
- Available for SCCS
- Natural fro Leo

Mnnn... just usage .leo dir?



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Re: How to collaborate using Leo

2013-10-27 Thread Edward K. Ream 

On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 8:57 AM, Zoom.Quiet zoom.qu...@gmail.com wrote:


 - though one night, i get new understand:

 Leonard always face Leo:
 - whatever usage @file/@shadow


Leonard should *always* use @file, to provide sentinels for Nancy.



 - sh
 a
 ring SCCS forever is sentinels file


Correct.  This is really the key idea.



 - and begin working ,must:
 - bzr/hg/git pull and merge local sentinels file
 - and usage read @file, merge into Leo node tree
 - HOOKs for Leonard just fixed:
 - base clean file or shadow, gen. sentinels file
 - and the reverse


It's better to think that Leonard needs no hooks.



 Nancy alwa
 ys
 face clean files:


Correct!



 - but in fact sh
 a
 ring SCCS forever is sentinels file


Correct.



 - and begin working ,must:
 - bzr/hg/git pull and merge local sentinels file
 - and the HOOKs for Nancy, base sentinels file through @shadow
 algorithm gen. clean files


The pull hook puts sentinels to the cache and strips sentinels for Nancy.



 - HOOKs for Nancy just fixed:
 - usage @shadow algorithm base the cached sentinels file
 - merge local clean files gen. new sentinels file

 so the local cache is the key problem:


No.  The local cache is just a detail :-)  It merely needs to remember the
files *with* sentinels **on Nancy's local machine.**  SCCS repository
*never* sees the cache.  Only Nancy's push/pull hooks see the cache.

The push hook uses the @shadow algorithm to push files *with* sentinels.
That's *all* that the cache is used for.



 - Invisible for Nancy
 - Available for SCCS
 - Natural fro Leo


Yes, the cache is invisible to Nancy.
Only the pull hook writes to the cache.
Only the push hook reads from the cache.



 Mnnn... just usage .leo dir?


Correct.  The cache will be in Nancy's .leo directory.

Edward

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Re: How to collaborate using Leo

2013-10-27 Thread Edward K. Ream 
On Sunday, October 27, 2013 1:23:21 PM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:

 Leonard should *always* use @file, to provide sentinels for Nancy.

More importantly, Leonard should use @file to provide sentinels for 
Lucinda, Larry, etc.

EKR

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Re: How to collaborate using Leo

2013-10-26 Thread Edward K. Ream 
On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Zoom.Quiet zoom.qu...@gmail.com wrote:

 H?! in my eyes, this flow just clone from git work flow?

 - cleanness files ~= work space
 - cache ~=stage index
 - shadow ~= local repo.
 - .leo ~= remote repo.


I don't know enough about git to comment.  Anyone else want to try?


with local DVCS's hook:
 - Nancy always face cleanness files, but when commit
 - Hooks generate sentinels file base @shadow algorithm


That was the idea, yes.



 - Leonard always face Leo, but when commit
 - Hooks generate sentinels file base @shadow algorithm


No.  Leonard uses Leo, so his files already have sentinels.  In fact, the
sentinels in *his* files are the sentinels that *Nancy's* push hook must
have in order to recreate sentinels.

Edward

P.S.  I may not be expecting a call from Sweden, but this is the best idea
I've had in a long time.

EKR

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Re: How to collaborate using Leo

2013-10-25 Thread Kent Tenney 
Nice!

Can this machinery go in core? an opportunity to
demonstrate the power of the Leo framework.?

If this moves forward you might want to write it up as a story:
'How I stopped worrying and made peace with the sentinelphobes'
then submit the story to various tech magazines and online venues.

An entertaining history of Leo, your frustrations with mindshare, how
you solved it via the brilliance of your creation ...

Bzr is the obvious first choice.
Not obvious to me, of the dozens of repos I've cloned, I think
Leo is the only bzr one: 90% git 9% mercurial


On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 5:44 PM, gatesphere gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:


 Ooh!  This I like.

 If you want to draw more help, though, you'll have to generalize from 'bzr
 hook' to 'version-control-system-of-choice hook'.


 Right.  I used bzr just as an example to simplify the presentation.



  Whether this entails a single universal python script for all vcs', or
 tailored approaches for each system remains to be seen.


 The latter, unless all hooks can be written in Python.


 I postulate that for this scheme to become successful, the following
 version control systems need to be supported (at least!):
   - bzr
   - git
   - hg (mercurial)
   - cvs
   - svn


 I might drop the last two, but that's a quibble.  What matters is getting
 *one* to work.  Bzr is the obvious first choice. It will serve as a proof of
 concept applicable to all others.

 EKR

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Re: How to collaborate using Leo

2013-10-25 Thread Jacob Peck 

On 10/25/2013 9:33 AM, Kent Tenney wrote:

Bzr is the obvious first choice.

Not obvious to me, of the dozens of repos I've cloned, I think
Leo is the only bzr one: 90% git 9% mercurial

Ditto, but it's probably obvious as Leo is on bzr.

--Jake

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Re: How to collaborate using Leo

2013-10-25 Thread Edward K. Ream 
On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 8:33 AM, Kent Tenney kten...@gmail.com wrote:

 Nice!


Thanks.  This is the best Aha I've had in a long time.



 Can this machinery go in core? an opportunity to
 demonstrate the power of the Leo framework.?


That's a packaging issue.  leoShadow.py is the obvious place, but it might
be more convenient to create stand-alone hooks.


If this moves forward you might want to write it up as a story:
 'How I stopped worrying and made peace with the sentinelphobes'
 then submit the story to various tech magazines and online venues.


Haha.  It might make a good vid too.


Bzr is the obvious first choice.
 Not obvious to me, of the dozens of repos I've cloned, I think
 Leo is the only bzr one: 90% git 9% mercurial


I meant, obvious for a prototype, because bzr is Python.

One moment pls... From:
http://git-scm.com/book/en/Customizing-Git-Git-Hooks
any properly named executable scripts will work fine—you can write them in
Ruby or Python or what have you.

So yes, git hooks in Python are possible.  Presumably, git hooks will be a
bit different from bzr hooks, even if the underlying logic is the same.

EKR

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Re: How to collaborate using Leo

2013-10-25 Thread Zoom.Quiet 
H?! in my eyes, this flow just clone from git work flow?

- cleanness files ~= work space
- cache ~=stage index
- shadow ~= local repo.
- .leo ~= remote repo.

with local DVCS's hook:
- Nancy always face cleanness files, but when commit
- Hooks generate sentinels file base @shadow algorithm
- Leonard always face Leo, but when commit
- Hooks generate sentinels file base @shadow algorithm

Huuu?
- but not neet SCCS the realy @shadow files ?


2013/10/25 Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com:
 On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 8:33 AM, Kent Tenney kten...@gmail.com wrote:

 Nice!


 Thanks.  This is the best Aha I've had in a long time.



 Can this machinery go in core? an opportunity to
 demonstrate the power of the Leo framework.?


 That's a packaging issue.  leoShadow.py is the obvious place, but it might
 be more convenient to create stand-alone hooks.


 If this moves forward you might want to write it up as a story:
 'How I stopped worrying and made peace with the sentinelphobes'
 then submit the story to various tech magazines and online venues.


 Haha.  It might make a good vid too.


 Bzr is the obvious first choice.
 Not obvious to me, of the dozens of repos I've cloned, I think
 Leo is the only bzr one: 90% git 9% mercurial


 I meant, obvious for a prototype, because bzr is Python.

 One moment pls... From:
 http://git-scm.com/book/en/Customizing-Git-Git-Hooks
 any properly named executable scripts will work fine―you can write them in
 Ruby or Python or what have you.

 So yes, git hooks in Python are possible.  Presumably, git hooks will be a
 bit different from bzr hooks, even if the underlying logic is the same.

 EKR

btw:
人生苦短, Pythonic! 冗余不做,日子甭过!备份不做,十恶不赦!

means:

life is short,
Pythonic!
No Redundancy,
No Life!
No Backup,
Is Heinous!


-- 
人生苦短, Pythonic! 冗余不做,日子甭过!备份不做,十恶不赦!
KM keep growing environment culture which promoting organization be learnning!
俺: http://about.me/zoom.quiet
许: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/cn/

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Re: How to collaborate using Leo

2013-10-24 Thread gatesphere 

On 10/24/2013 6:33 PM, Edward K. Ream wrote:
Our recent collaborative discussions have created a stunning new way 
to collaborate using Leo.


Suppose a group contains L Leo users (Leonard, Lester, ...) and N 
non-Leo users (Nancy, Nadine,...).


We may as well assume L  1 and N  1.

Kent and Terry have (finally!) convinced me that that Nancy a) must 
never see sentinels and b) must never pay any substantial price for 
not seeing them.  Furthermore, only one .leo folder can exist anywhere 
on Nancy's machine (and that should be in an innocuous place).  Let's 
call this folder the **cache**.  For now, we care nothing about how it 
works.


Zoom.Quiet provided an essential hint: use bzr/git hooks. Earlier 
schemes for using such hooks failed because there were **pairs** of 
files floating around: with sentinels and without. This creates an 
impossible-to-solve problem: namely ensuring that pairs were always in 
synch.


Standing in the shower after my swim this afternoon I saw the solution.

Suppose the transmission line (pushes and pulls) only carries files 
*with* sentinels.  This ensures lossless transmission of data and 
sidesteps the intractable synchronization problem.


The Leo project must provide *two kinds* of bzr hooks, one for Nancy 
and one for Leonard.


When Nancy does a bzr pull, **her pull hook will strip Leo 
sentinels**. My first thought was OMG: it can't be that easy!


Well, not quite.  Nancy can change a file and then push it.  How does 
Nancy's *push* hook recreate the file with sentinels?? Think about it...


Answer: Nancy's push hook uses the @shadow algorithm!!!  Nancy's 
*pull* hook will save the file *with* sentinels in the cache. When 
Nancy pushes a file (without sentinels), the push hook will use the 
@shadow algorithm to create the file (with sentinels) that actually 
gets transmitted over the wire.


This will work!!!

Leonard needs neither a push hook nor a pull hook, but a pull hook 
that simulated @auto for files that *never* had sentinels might be useful.


Let's verify that Nancy will be (fairly) happy:

- Installation is low cost: she just installs Leo's push/pull hooks.

- Nancy will never, ever, will see a Leo sentinel.

- Nancy will see *slightly* slower pushes and pulls than will Leonard, 
but probably not slow enough to be noticeable.  In particular, paired 
files never get transmitted--only the (recreated) file *with* 
sentinels goes over the wire.


This scheme completely appears to solve the technical issues!

Let's consider management (team) issues.  They will typically depend 
on the ratio L/N.


- If L or N is zero, there is no problem ;-)

If L is one, this scheme has no advantages over @shadow: Leonard is 
not sharing Leo data with anyone!


If N is one, Nancy can probably be persuaded to accept *slightly* 
lower performance in order to please the group.


Otherwise, negotiations (or an edict from management) will decide 
whether this scheme will be acceptable to Nancy, Nadine, et. al.  If 
it isn't, Leonard, Lester et. al. will have to use @auto or @shadow.


This may be a perfect technical solution; team-related considerations 
might kill it.  Nevertheless, it is *far* better than anything I ever 
imagined before.


This Aha would not have happened without Zoom.Quiet's questions and 
comments about collaboration. The Aha is a direct response to Terry's 
post that *finally* convinced me that is, um, unreasonable to blame 
people for not accepting Leo sentinels ;-)  It's a good thing Kent and 
Terry were around to stop me from making an ass of myself. This has 
been a stellar collaboration.  Thank you all!


Your comments please.

Edward

P.S.  No, this won't delay b1 further :-)

EKR


Ooh!  This I like.

If you want to draw more help, though, you'll have to generalize from 
'bzr hook' to 'version-control-system-of-choice hook'.  Whether this 
entails a single universal python script for all vcs', or tailored 
approaches for each system remains to be seen.


I postulate that for this scheme to become successful, the following 
version control systems need to be supported (at least!):

  - bzr
  - git
  - hg (mercurial)
  - cvs
  - svn

--Jake

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Re: How to collaborate using Leo

2013-10-24 Thread Edward K. Ream 
On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 5:44 PM, gatesphere gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:


  Ooh!  This I like.

 If you want to draw more help, though, you'll have to generalize from 'bzr
 hook' to 'version-control-system-of-**choice hook'.


Right.  I used bzr just as an example to simplify the presentation.



  Whether this entails a single universal python script for all vcs', or
 tailored approaches for each system remains to be seen.


The latter, unless all hooks can be written in Python.



 I postulate that for this scheme to become successful, the following
 version control systems need to be supported (at least!):
   - bzr
   - git
   - hg (mercurial)
   - cvs
   - svn


I might drop the last two, but that's a quibble.  What matters is getting
*one* to work.  Bzr is the obvious first choice. It will serve as a proof
of concept applicable to all others.

EKR

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